[Rhodes22-list] Marines & Berkeley - More Political Scum - A reply
Rik Sandberg
sanderico1 at gmail.com
Sun Feb 3 13:13:36 EST 2008
Brad,
Thanks, another excellent assessment of our problem.
Wish I knew how you dig all this stuff up.
Rik
Brad Haslett wrote:
> Rik,
>
> As long as you're in the reading mode, I've got another one for you I'll
> attach. We ARE looking at the tip of the iceberg and Western Civilization is
> under attack. I'm not going to waste my time or anyone else's arguing about
> whether we should be in Iraq, should have been in Vietnam, or the US Civil
> War for that matter. We ARE there (Iraq) and the same crowd that snatched
> 'defeat from the jaws of victory' would like to put another notch on their
> belt, damn the consequences. John Kerry was "only" off by 3 million souls
> how many South Vietnamese would be killed when we left. The same people who
> cry for us to do something in Darfur want us out of Iraq. Where is the
> logic in that? I'd love for us all to have a group hug, sing folk songs,
> and celebrate peace, but there has never been a point in history where that
> was possible. Frankly, I'm not a big fan of the IRS but if I chained myself
> to the front door of their building here in Memphis I'm guessing it would
> take the MEM police about two minutes to arrive and tazer me into a new
> attitude. The idiots in Berkeley and others have their right to protest,
> the right to their own opinions, but the Berkeley city council doesn't have
> the right to encourage and allow defacement of property. The CodePinkers
> love to invoke the name of Hitler - I fail to see the difference between
> their actions and Kristallnacht.
>
> Brad
>
> -----------------------------
> February 03, 2008 Forty Years of the Tet Offensive *By* *David
> Warren*<http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/author/david_warren/>
>
> Breaking the negotiated annual truce, for surprise, Viet Cong and North
> Vietnamese regulars launched the Tet Offensive, in the night of 30/31
> January 1968, named for the Vietnamese lunar new year. This campaign
> continued in various forms through September of that year, ending in total
> military defeat, for the aggressors. And a brilliant propaganda victory, for
> the same.
>
> Thinking back on the Vietnam War this last week. And while I was doing so, a
> young leftist friend wrote to me, on an entirely unrelated topic, taunting
> with a remark about 2008 being, "The last year of the American Empire" -- as
> if it started and ended with George W. Bush. He does not seem interested in
> the question: By whose Empire will that vacuum be filled?
>
> My friend does not even think of himself as a leftist, only as a person with
> an "open mind." We agree on that, but define "open" differently, for to my
> mind, a skull without a brain inside is completely open. The more brain, or
> more precisely, the more brain used, the more resistance it can offer to the
> importation of nonsense.
>
> Forty years have now gone by, which one might figuratively characterize as
> the forty years of the Tet Offensive, against Western Civ. The West has done
> fairly well in the field: we have still not lost a purely military encounter
> with any of the enemies of the West. Going back farther, the French didn't
> even lose their battles in Algeria. Rather, Charles de Gaulle decided they
> were not worth fighting.
>
> The Tet Offensive was a desperate ploy by the Communist enemy in Vietnam.
> Tens of thousands of his troops were flung simultaneously at more than 100
> South Vietnamese towns, and into the heart of Saigon. The Communists
> announced a general uprising, but that did not occur. The tide was actually
> turned within a few days by the U.S. and South Vietnamese armies. As they
> re-took town after town, they discovered massacres the Communists had
> committed while in possession. The enemy's real object had been to
> decapitate a whole society.
>
> My friend, Uwe Siemon-Netto, a German Lutheran pastor and also life-long
> journalist, was there as a reporter. Entering Hué as the smoke was clearing:
> "I made my way to university apartments to obtain news about friends of
> mine, German professors at the medical school. I learned that their names
> had been on lists containing some 1,800 Hué residents singled out for
> liquidation.
>
> "Six weeks later the bodies of doctors Alois Altekoester, Raimund Discher,
> Horst-Guenther Krainick, and Krainick's wife, Elisabeth, were found in
> shallow graves they had been made to dig for themselves.
>
> "Then, enormous mass graves of women and children were found. Most had been
> clubbed to death, some buried alive; you could tell from the beautifully
> manicured hands of women who had tried to claw out of their burial place.
>
> "As we stood at one such site, Washington Post correspondent Peter Braestrup
> asked an American TV cameraman, 'Why don't you film this?' He answered, 'I
> am not here to spread anti-communist propaganda'."
>
> The Tet Offensive ended not only in a huge allied victory in the field --
> some 45,000 of the Communist soldiers had been killed, and their
> infrastructure destroyed. It was victory after an event that showed
> sceptical South Vietnamese, and should have shown the world, the nature of
> the enemy our allies were fighting.
>
> Walter Cronkite, the famous news anchor of CBS, led the American media
> reaction. After a very brief visit to Saigon, in which he got himself filmed
> wearing flak jackets, he returned to the United States, declaring before his
> huge prime time audience:
>
> "It is increasingly clear to this reporter that the only rational way out
> will be to negotiate, not as victors, but as an honourable people who have
> lived up to their pledge to defend democracy, and did the best they could."
>
> The media turned a tremendous victory into a tremendous defeat. Yet seven
> more years would pass until an America, which had by then abandoned Vietnam,
> and a Congress, which had cut off military supplies to the South Vietnamese,
> watched the helicopters removing America's last faithful servants from a
> roof in Saigon's old embassy compound. The South Vietnamese Army had
> surrendered, to another Tet Offensive, as it ran out of ammunition.
>
> We have seen this "Vietnam syndrome" writ large, through the intervening
> years. We see it today in Afghanistan and Iraq. The Romans, too, had a
> facility for winning ground battles.
> otiosus at sympatico.ca
>
> (c) Ottawa Citizen
>
>
> On Feb 3, 2008 10:06 AM, Rik Sandberg <sanderico1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Brad,
>>
>> Excellent article. For those who think we have problems in Iraq and
>> Afghanistan now .... just wait, IMHO we are just looking at the tip of
>> this iceberg. I hope I'm proved wrong.
>>
>> Rik
>>
>> Brad Haslett wrote:
>>
>>> Ed,
>>>
>>> It may be too late for Europe but perhaps not for us. PC has run amok!
>>> "Youths" burn cars and incite riots in Paris but the newspapers won't
>>> mention that they are 99% Muslims. If you take the position in this
>>>
>> country
>>
>>> that you don't think it a good idea to upset 10,000 years of tradition
>>>
>> that
>>
>>> marriage is between opposite sexes, you're labeled 'homophobic'. My
>>> experience is that the people who preach tolerance the most are in fact
>>>
>> the
>>
>>> most intolerant. I'm including an article on what gays are facing in
>>>
>> Europe
>>
>>> today. I especially detest those who would rather see third world
>>>
>> countries
>>
>>> remain 'victims' and stuck in the 19th Century instead of joining the
>>>
>> modern
>>
>>> world. Who's being insensitive here?
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>> ------------------------
>>>
>>> *by Bruce Bawer <http://www.brucebawer.com/>*
>>>
>>> One day last month, I gave a talk in Rome about how the supposedly
>>>
>> liberal
>>
>>> ideology of multiculturalism has made possible the spread in Europe of
>>>
>> the
>>
>>> highly illiberal ideology of fundamentalist Islam, with all its
>>>
>> brutality
>>
>>> and – among other things – violent homophobia. When I returned to my
>>>
>> hotel,
>>
>>> I phoned my partner back home in Oslo only to learn that moments earlier
>>>
>> he
>>
>>> had been confronted at a bus stop by two Muslim youths, one of whom had
>>> asked if he was gay, started to pull out a knife, then kicked him as he
>>>
>> got
>>
>>> on the bus, which had pulled up at just the right moment. If the bus
>>>
>> hadn't
>>
>>> come when it did, the encounter could have been much worse.
>>>
>>> Not very long ago, Oslo was an icy Shangri-la of Scandinavian
>>> self-discipline, governability, and respect for the law. But in recent
>>> years, there have been grim changes, including a rise in gay-bashings.
>>>
>> The
>>
>>> summer of 2006 saw an unprecedented wave of them. The culprits, very
>>> disproportionately, are young Muslim men.
>>>
>>> It's not just Oslo, of course. The problem afflicts most of Western
>>> Europe<javascript:void(0)>.
>>> And anecdotal evidence suggests that such crimes are dramatically
>>> underreported. My own partner chose not to report his assault. I urged
>>>
>> him
>>
>>> to, but he protested that it wouldn't make any difference. He was
>>>
>> probably
>>
>>> right.
>>>
>>> The reason for the rise in gay bashings in Europe is clear – and it's
>>>
>> the
>>
>>> same reason for the rise in rape. As the number of Muslims in Europe
>>>
>> grows,
>>
>>> and as the proportion of those Muslims who were born and bred in Europe
>>>
>> also
>>
>>> grows, many Muslim men are more inclined to see Europe as a part of the
>>>
>> *
>>
>>> umma* (or Muslim world), to believe that they have the right and duty to
>>> enforce sharia law in the cities where they live, and to recognize that
>>>
>> any
>>
>>> aggression on their part will likely go unpunished. Such men need not be
>>> actively religious in order to feel that they have *carte blanche* to
>>> assault openly gay men and non-submissive women, whose freedom to live
>>>
>> their
>>
>>> lives as they wish is among the most conspicuous symbols of the West's
>>> defiance of holy law.
>>>
>>> Multiculturalists can't face all this. So it is that even when there are
>>> brutal gay-bashings, few journalists write about them; of those who do,
>>>
>> few
>>
>>> mention that the perpetrators are Muslims; and those who do mention it
>>>
>> take
>>
>>> the line that these perpetrators are lashing out in desperate response
>>>
>> to
>>
>>> their own oppression.
>>>
>>> Never mind that Europe, far from oppressing Muslims, offers personal
>>> freedoms and welfare-state benefits far beyond those available in any
>>>
>> Muslim
>>
>>> country. Never mind that few if any Europeans – certainly not gay
>>> people<javascript:void(0)>– are doing any Muslim-bashing. Never mind
>>> that Hindu and Buddhist
>>> immigrants, or immigrants from South America <javascript:void(0)> or
>>>
>> China,
>>
>>> feel no compulsion to react violently against their "oppression." No,
>>> assaults by Muslims always have to be construed as defensive – as
>>> expressions not of power but of weakness, not of aggression but of
>>> helplessness. To suggest that the culprits, far from being fragile,
>>> sensitive flowers who've been pushed over the line by something *we*
>>>
>> did,
>>
>>> are in fact bullies driven by an overweening sense of superiority and a
>>> deep-seated malice – both of which they've been carefully taught at
>>>
>> home, at
>>
>>> school, and, yes, in the mosque – is *verboten*.
>>>
>>> One familiar response is: "Well, non-Muslims beat up gays, too!" Yep –
>>> indeed they do. Yet for a while there, in much of Western Europe,
>>> homosexuality was on its way to being a non-issue. In Amsterdam in the
>>>
>> late
>>
>>> 1990s, I was delightfully surprised to discover that when groups of
>>>
>> straight
>>
>>> teenage boys passed gay couples in the streets, they *just walked
>>> past*without any reaction whatsoever. The sight of gay people didn't
>>> upset,
>>> threaten, amuse, or confuse them; the familiar, insecure urge to respond
>>>
>> to
>>
>>> open homosexuality with some kind of distancing, disdainful word or
>>>
>> gesture
>>
>>> – and thereby affirm to one another, and to themselves, their own
>>> heterosexual credentials – was simply not part of those kids' makeup.
>>>
>> For
>>
>>> me, it was a remarkable experience. Amsterdam then seemed to me the
>>>
>> leading
>>
>>> edge of a new wave in the progress of human civilization.
>>>
>>> Alas, it is now very clearly the opposite. The number of reported
>>> gay-bashings in Amsterdam now climbs steadily year by year. Nearly half
>>> Muslim, the city is a front in the struggle between democracy and
>>>
>> sharia,
>>
>>> under which, lest it be forgotten, homosexuality can be a capital
>>>
>> offense.
>>
>>> Things have gotten so bad there that even on the part of the exceedingly
>>> politically correct, there has been a degree of acknowledgment that *
>>> something* has changed, and is still changing. After a group of
>>>
>> Amsterdam
>>
>>> Muslims beat up Chris Crain, the six-foot-five editor of the gay
>>>
>> newspaper *The
>>
>>> Washington Blade*, in May 2005, the head of the Netherlands' leading
>>> gay-rights organization admitted that tolerance of gay people in that
>>>
>> city
>>
>>> was "slipping away like sand through the fingers" and that "gays and
>>> lesbians are less willing to walk hand-in-hand because they might be
>>>
>> beaten
>>
>>> up."
>>>
>>> I can testify that this is true. Yet politicians, journalists,
>>>
>> activists,
>>
>>> and others who cling to the multicultural mindset can't bring themselves
>>>
>> to
>>
>>> acknowledge the Islamic foundations of all this bullying. Instead, they
>>> offer the same kind of nonsense that was served up by a Human Rights
>>>
>> Watch
>>
>>> spokesman after the Chris Crain incident. "There's still an
>>>
>> extraordinary
>>
>>> degree <javascript:void(0)> of racism in Dutch society
>>>
>> <javascript:void(0)>,"
>>
>>> that spokesman said. "Gays often become the victims of this when
>>>
>> immigrants
>>
>>> retaliate for the inequities they have to suffer."
>>>
>>> So powerful is the determination to turn away from the plain and simple
>>> truth that Amsterdam mayor Job Cohen recently commissioned a study by
>>>
>> the
>>
>>> University of Amsterdam. Its purpose? To try to figure out what motives
>>> underlie the increase in attacks on gay men and lesbians by
>>>
>> Dutch-Moroccan
>>
>>> men in Amsterdam. "Some researchers," wrote a reporter for UPI, "believe
>>> they [Muslim gay-bashers] lashed out at local gays after feeling
>>>
>> stigmatized
>>
>>> by Dutch society." In other words, as the straight-talking Norwegian
>>> immigration expert Inger-Lise Lien put it sardonically when I showed her
>>>
>> the
>>
>>> article, "it's the assailant who's the real victim."
>>>
>>> As for Cohen, he would appear to be operating out of pure cynicism. This
>>>
>> is
>>
>>> the same mayor, after all, who has called for the Netherlands to reach
>>>
>> some
>>
>>> "accommodation" with its male Muslim residents that would allow them to
>>> oppress their wives, sisters, and daughters – though he hasn't been
>>>
>> entirely
>>
>>> clear as to just where he would draw the line. (Beatings? Rape? Forced
>>> marriage? Genital mutilation? Honor killing?) Given such an
>>>
>> extraordinary
>>
>>> record of pragmatism, it seems safe to assume that Cohen would also be
>>>
>> more
>>
>>> than willing, in the name of peace in our time, to turn away with
>>>
>> respectful
>>
>>> discretion when Muslim gangs beat the living daylights out of the
>>>
>> occasional
>>
>>> *flikker*.
>>>
>>> In any event, another mayor, London's Ken Livingstone, has already
>>>
>> blazed
>>
>>> that trail. In 2004, playing host to Sunni scholar Yusuf al-Qaradawi,
>>>
>> who
>>
>>> has supported the execution of gay people, Livingstone hailed him as a
>>> "progressive." When gay activists called him on this ridiculous
>>>
>> assertion,
>>
>>> Livingstone retaliated by putting out a dissertation-length report
>>> whitewashing Qaradawi and smearing his critics as racists.
>>>
>>> Even as Europeans in positions of authority persist in denying the plain
>>> facts about Muslim attitudes toward gay people, leading European Muslims
>>> keep reminding us what those attitudes are. Take Norway's Asghar Ali,
>>>
>> deputy
>>
>>> chairman of Norway's Islamic Council. Ali, who also holds high-ranking
>>> positions in Norway's ruling Labor Party and in the powerful Norwegian
>>> Confederation of Trade Unions, and has worked in an advisory capacity on
>>>
>> the
>>
>>> government's Equality and Anti-Discrimination Ombud, would seem to be a
>>> model of successful assimilation. Yet at a November 2007 debate arranged
>>>
>> by
>>
>>> the gay student organization at the University of Oslo, he refused to
>>>
>> reject
>>
>>> the death penalty <javascript:void(0)> for gays. When asked about this
>>> issue, the head of the Islamic Council, Senaid Kobilica, said that
>>>
>> Norwegian
>>
>>> Muslims needed to discuss it and consult religious authorities. "While
>>>
>> this
>>
>>> process is underway," Kobilica said, "I ask for understanding and
>>>
>> respect
>>
>>> for the fact that I am unable to comment, either about my personal
>>>
>> position
>>
>>> or about the position of the Islamic Council of Norway." Understanding
>>>
>> and
>>
>>> respect, that is, for his unwillingness to say flat out that he did not
>>> believe gay people should be murdered.
>>>
>>> Perhaps younger, well educated Muslims are more enlightened? Another
>>> participant in the University of Oslo debate, Muslim Student Association
>>> head Usman Rana, said that he personally didn't support making
>>>
>> homosexuality
>>
>>> a capital crime, but that he would not criticize other countries'
>>>
>> practices.
>>
>>> "There is unfortunately a tendency in Norway to degrade religious
>>>
>> people,"
>>
>>> Rana told *Universitas*, the college newspaper. "It is due to an extreme
>>> secularism among the Norwegian public. I fervently hope that our
>>> participation [in the debate on the death penalty for gays] helps to
>>>
>> create
>>
>>> a more nuanced view of Islam. The Norwegian public needs to become more
>>> liberal." Once again, it's the assailants – or, in this case, the
>>>
>> would-be
>>
>>> executioners – who are the real victims.
>>>
>>> The Norwegian public may not yet be "liberal" enough to suit Rana, but
>>>
>> the
>>
>>> European establishment has been exceedingly so. Though Kobilica's
>>>
>> refusal to
>>
>>> condemn the execution of gays caused a brief stir in the media, the
>>> Norwegian government has made no move to withdraw the Islamic Council's
>>> annual subsidy of half a million kroner (about $100,000). Government
>>> officials and journalists continue to treat the council with deference,
>>>
>> to
>>
>>> view it as the Voice of Muslims, and to pretend that it is a voice of
>>> moderation. Once the flap over executing gays died down, moreover,
>>> politicians and others returned soon enough to the mantra about Islam
>>>
>> being
>>
>>> a religion of peace.
>>>
>>> It's very clear what's going on here – and where it's all headed. Europe
>>>
>> is
>>
>>> on its way down the road of Islamization, and it's reached a point along
>>> that road at which gay people's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit
>>>
>> of
>>
>>> happiness is being directly challenged, both by knife-wielding bullies
>>>
>> on
>>
>>> the street and by taxpayer-funded thugs whose organizations already
>>>
>> enjoy
>>
>>> quasi-governmental authority. Sharia law may still be an alien concept
>>>
>> to
>>
>>> some Westerners, but it's staring gay Europeans right in the face – and
>>> pointing toward a chilling future for all free people. Pim Fortuyn saw
>>>
>> all
>>
>>> this coming years ago; most of today's European leaders still refuse to
>>>
>> see
>>
>>> it even though it's right before their eyes.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bruce Bawer's book While Europe
>>> Slept<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0767920058/pajamasmedia-20
>>> is
>>> now in paperback. His website is at
>>> www.brucebawer.com.
>>> ———
>>>
>>> On Feb 3, 2008 7:19 AM, Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Brad:
>>>>
>>>> I know that Rik will blast his horn that I am rude, and others will say
>>>> crude, inconsiderate, etc. However, in reading the prior discussion I
>>>>
>> can
>>
>>>> have to say that John's line of reasoning made me think of the
>>>>
>> following
>>
>>>> quote off the internet:
>>>>
>>>> "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
>>>>
>> illogical,
>>
>>>> liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream
>>>>
>> media,
>>
>>>> which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick
>>>>
>> up
>>
>>>> a
>>>> turd by the clean end."
>>>>
>>>> Ed K
>>>> Greenville, SC, USA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Robert,
>>>>>
>>>>> Attached is a letter to the Berkeley newspaper from the Captain who
>>>>>
>> runs
>>
>>>>> the
>>>>> USMC office there. Written in October, it details the reasons for
>>>>> locating
>>>>> there. Berkeley is the worst of the Bay Area but by no means the only
>>>>> lunatic city. My son gets treated shabbily in Alameda while wearing a
>>>>> USCG
>>>>> uniform. I respect people's feelings against war in general and this
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> war
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> in
>>>>> particular, though I disagree with their reasoning, but to treat
>>>>>
>> anyone
>>
>>>>> wearing the uniform badly is just plain wrong. These CodePinkers are
>>>>> hopelessly stuck in the 60's and their behaviour now is just as
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> disgusting
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> as it was in their youth. They have no more legal right to harass a
>>>>> recruiting office than they do an insurance office or flower shop.
>>>>>
>> The
>>
>>>>> city
>>>>> council of Berkeley is obviously aiding and abetting these loons and
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> they
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> should be held accountable, ie, cut off federal funding to Berkeley.
>>>>> Perhaps then the 'sane and rational' citizens of Berkeley, assuming
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> there
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> are some, will throw the bums out or suffer the consequences of their
>>>>> decisions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Brad
>>>>>
>>>>> PS - Kudos to your grandson and the USMC!
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------
>>>>> Commentary: An Open Letter to Code Pink * By Richard Lund (10-02-07) *
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> While the protest that you staged in front of my office on Wednesday,
>>>>> Sept.
>>>>> 26th, was an exercise of your constitutional rights, the messages that
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> you
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> left behind were insulting, untrue, and ultimately misdirected.
>>>>> Additionally, from the comments quoted in the Berkeley Daily Planet
>>>>> article,
>>>>> it is clear that you have no idea what it is that I do here. Given
>>>>>
>> that
>>
>>>> I
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> was unaware of your planned protest, I was unable to contest your
>>>>>
>> claims
>>
>>>>> in
>>>>> person, so I will therefore address them here.
>>>>>
>>>>> First, a little bit about who I am: I am a Marine captain with over
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> eight
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> years of service as a commissioned officer. I flew transport
>>>>>
>> helicopters
>>
>>>>> for
>>>>> most of my time in the Marine Corps before requesting orders to come
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Currently, I am the officer selection officer for the northern Bay
>>>>>
>> Area.
>>
>>>>> My
>>>>> job is to recruit, interview, screen, and evaluate college students
>>>>>
>> and
>>
>>>>> college graduates that show an interest in becoming officers in the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Marine
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Corps. Once they've committed to pursuing this program, I help them
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> apply,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> and if selected, I help them prepare for the rigors of Officer
>>>>>
>> Candidate
>>
>>>>> School and for the challenges of life as a Marine officer. To be
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> eligible
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> for my programs, you have to be either a full-time college student or
>>>>>
>> a
>>
>>>>> college graduate. I don't pull anyone out of school, and high school
>>>>> students are not eligible.
>>>>>
>>>>> I moved my office to Berkeley in December of last year. Previously, it
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> was
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> located in an old federal building in Alameda. That building was due
>>>>>
>> to
>>
>>>> be
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> torn down and I had to find a new location. I choose our new site
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> because
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> of
>>>>> its proximity to UC Berkeley and to the BART station. Most of the
>>>>> candidates
>>>>> in my program either go to Cal or to one of the schools in San
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Francisco,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> the East Bay, or the North Bay. Logistically, the Shattuck Square
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> location
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> was the most convenient for them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Next, you claim that I lie. I have never, and will never, lie to any
>>>>> individual that shows an interest in my programs. I am upfront with
>>>>> everything that is involved at every step of the way and I go out of
>>>>>
>> my
>>
>>>>> way
>>>>> to ensure that they know what to expect when they apply. I tell them
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> that
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> this is not an easy path. I tell them that leading Marines requires a
>>>>> great
>>>>> deal of self-sacrifice. I tell them that, should they succeed in their
>>>>> quest
>>>>> to become a Marine officer, they will almost certainly go to Iraq. In
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> future, if you plan to attack my integrity, please have the courtesy
>>>>>
>> to
>>
>>>>> explain to me specifically the instances in which you think that I
>>>>>
>> lied.
>>
>>>>> Next, scrawled across the doorway to my office, you wrote, "Recruiters
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> are
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Traitors." Please explain this one. How exactly am I a traitor? Was I
>>>>>
>> a
>>
>>>>> traitor when I joined the Marine Corps all those years ago? Is every
>>>>> Marine,
>>>>> therefore, a traitor? Was I a traitor during my two stints in Iraq?
>>>>>
>> Was
>>
>>>> I
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> a
>>>>> traitor when I was delivering humanitarian aid to the victims of the
>>>>> tsunami
>>>>> in Sumatra? Or do you only consider me a traitor while I am on this
>>>>>
>> job?
>>
>>>>> The
>>>>> fact is, recruitment is and always has been a part of maintaining any
>>>>> military organization. In fact, recruitment is a necessity of any
>>>>>
>> large
>>
>>>>> organization. Large corporations have employees that recruit
>>>>>
>> full-time.
>>
>>>>> Even
>>>>> you, I'm sure, must expend some effort to recruit for Code Pink. So
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> what,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> exactly, is it that makes me a traitor?
>>>>>
>>>>> The fact is this: any independent nation must maintain a military (or
>>>>>
>> be
>>
>>>>> allied with those who do) to ensure the safety and security of its
>>>>> citizens.
>>>>> Regardless of what your opinions are of the current administration or
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> current conflict in Iraq, the U.S. military will be needed again in
>>>>>
>> the
>>
>>>>> future. If your counter-recruitment efforts are ultimately successful,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> who
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> will defend us if we are directly attacked again as we were at Pearl
>>>>> Harbor?
>>>>> Who would respond if a future terrorist attack targets the Golden Gate
>>>>> Bridge, the BART system, or the UC Berkeley clock tower? And, to
>>>>>
>> address
>>
>>>>> the
>>>>> most hypocritical stance that your organization takes on its website,
>>>>> where
>>>>> would the peace keeping force come from that you advocate sending to
>>>>> Darfur?
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally, I believe that your efforts in protesting my office are
>>>>> misdirected. I agree that your stated goals of peace and social
>>>>>
>> justice
>>
>>>>> are
>>>>> worthy ones. War is a terrible thing that should only be undertaken in
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> most dire, extreme, and necessary of circumstances. However, war is
>>>>>
>> made
>>
>>>>> by
>>>>> politicians. The conflict in Iraq was ordered by the president and
>>>>> authorized by Congress. They are the ones who have the power to change
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> policy in Iraq, not members of the military. We execute policy to the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> best
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> of our ability and to the best of our human capacity. Protesting in
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> front
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> of
>>>>> my office may be an easy way to get your organization in the headlines
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> of
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> local papers, but it doesn't further any of your stated goals.
>>>>>
>>>>> To conclude, I don't consider myself a "recruiter." I am a Marine who
>>>>> happens to be on recruiting duty. As such, I conduct myself in
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> accordance
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> with our core values of honor, courage, and commitment. I will never
>>>>> sacrifice my honor by lying to anyone that walks into my office. I
>>>>>
>> will
>>
>>>>> never forsake the courage that it takes to restrain myself in the face
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> of
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> insulting and libelous labels like liar and traitor. And, most
>>>>> importantly,
>>>>> I will never waver from my commitment to helping individuals who
>>>>>
>> desire
>>
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> serve their country as officers in the Marine Corps.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Captain Richard Lund is the United States Marine Corps' officer
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> selection
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> officer for the northern Bay Area.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 2, 2008 9:47 PM, Robert Skinner <robert at squirrelhaven.com>
>>>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> As my grandson said on his way to his third
>>>>>> tour in Iraq as a LtCol USMC, "Just another
>>>>>> day at the office."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope that the USMC takes no official notice
>>>>>> of this foolishness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /Robert
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's an update on Berkeley-
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/02/BALTUQKOE.DTL
>>
>>>>>>> I posted the link rather than the text so you can see the photos.
>>>>>>> Yesterday, protesters chained themselves to the door of the Marine
>>>>>>> recruiting office for 7 and 1/2 HOURS! Since when is it legal to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> close
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> down
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a business and where are the Berkeley police for 7 and 1/2 hours?
>>>>>>> Congresswoman Lee protested Sen. Demints proposal to de-fund
>>>>>>>
>> Berkeley
>>
>>>>>> by
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> saying it wasn't right to deprive children of lunches and citizens
>>>>>>>
>> of
>>
>>>>>> first
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> responders. I'd say these people don't need to be having children
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> if it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> takes over 7 hours for the police to respond, they don't need them
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brad
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 31, 2008 6:59 PM, Robert Skinner <robert at squirrelhaven.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sorry to hear about this stupidity - but it looks as
>>>>>>>> though the Leathernecks picked a poor beachhead.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any town that does not welcome the Marines does not
>>>>>>>> deserve them. What kind of dweeb confuses the loyal
>>>>>>>> Marines with the leadership and policies that they are
>>>>>>>> sworn to follow?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I, for one, am damned glad to have a fellow Marine
>>>>>>>> next to me under any circumstances, whether or not we
>>>>>>>> share political views.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /Robert
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Boys and girls, here is a perfect opportunity to solve our energy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I say we take spent nuclear fuel and dump it right smack in the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> center
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Berkeley. That, or pull every last federal dollar out of that
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> scum
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> infested
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> city. Brad
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Berkeley council tells Marines to leave
>>>>>>>>> By Doug Oakley
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> STAFF WRITER
>>>>>>>>> Article Launched: 01/30/2008 01:48:16 PM PST
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hey-hey, ho-ho, the Marines in Berkeley have got to go.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's the message from the Berkeley City Council, which voted
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> 8-1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tuesday
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> night to tell the U.S. Marines that its Shattuck Avenue
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> recruiting
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> station
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "is not welcome in the city, and if recruiters choose to stay,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> they
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> do
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> so as
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> uninvited and unwelcome intruders."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In addition, the council voted to explore enforcing its law
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> prohibiting
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation against the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marines
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> because of the military's don't ask, don't tell policy. And it
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> officially
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> encouraged the women's peace group Code Pink to impede the work
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> of
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Marines in the city by protesting in front of the station.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In a separate item, the council voted 8-1 to give Code Pink a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> designated
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> parking space in front of the recruiting station once a week for
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> six
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> months
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and a free sound permit for protesting once a week from noon to 4
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> p.m.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Councilman Gordon Wozniak opposed both items.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Marines have been in Berkeley for a little more than a year,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> having
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> moved from Alameda in December of 2006. For about the past four
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> months,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Code
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pink has been protesting in front of the station.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "I believe in the Code Pink cause. The Marines don't belong here,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> they
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> shouldn't have come here, and they should leave," said Berkeley
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mayor
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bates after votes were cast.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A Marines representative did not respond to requests for comment.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The resolution telling the Marines they are unwelcome and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> directing
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> city
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> attorney to explore
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> issues of sexual orientation discrimination was brought to the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> council
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the city's Peace and Justice commission.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The recommendation to give Code Pink a parking space for
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> protesting
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> free sound permit was brought by council members Linda Maio and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> Max
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anderson.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Code Pink on Wednesday started circulating petitions to put a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> measure on
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> November ballot in Berkeley that would make it more difficult to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> open
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> military recruiting offices near homes, parks, schools, churches
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> libraries
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> or health clinics. The group needs 5,000 signatures to make the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ballot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Even though the council items passed, not everyone is happy with
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> work of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Code Pink. Some employees and owners of businesses near the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> Marines
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> office
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> have had enough of the group and its protests.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "My husband's business is right upstairs, and this (protesting)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> is
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> bordering
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> on harassment," Dori Schmidt told the council. "I hope this
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> stops."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> An employee of a nearby business who asked not to be identified
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> said
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wednesday the elderly Code Pink protesters are aggressive, take
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> up
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> parking
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> spaces, block the sidewalk with their yoga moves, smoke in the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> doorways,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> are noisy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Most of the people around here think they're a joke," the woman
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wozniak said he was opposed to giving Code Pink a parking space
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> because
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> favors free speech rights of one group over another.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "There's a line between protesting and harassing, and that
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> concerns
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> me,"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wozniak said. "It looks like we are showing favoritism. We have
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> respect
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the other side, and not abuse their rights. This is not good
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> policy."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ninety-year-old Fran Rachel, a Code Pink protester who spoke at
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> council
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> meeting, said the group's request for a parking space and noise
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> permit
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> especially important because the Marines are recruiting soldiers
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> may
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> die
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> in an unjust war.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "This is very serious," Rachel said. "This isn't a game; it's
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> mass
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> murder.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There's a sickness of silence of people not speaking out against
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> war. We
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> have to do this."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anderson, a former Marine who said he was "drummed out" of the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> corps
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> when he
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> took a stand against the Vietnam War, said he'd love to see the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marines
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> high
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> tale it out of town.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "We are confronted with an organization that can spend billions
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> of
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> dollars
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> on propaganda," Anderson said. "This is not Okinawa here; we're
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> involved
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a naked act of aggression. If we can provide a space for ordinary
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> people
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> express themselves against this kind of barbarity, then we should
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> doing
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> it."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> E-mail Doug Oakley at doakley at bayareanewsgroup.com
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Robert Skinner "Squirrel Haven"
>>>>>>>> Gorham, Maine 04038-1331
>>>>>>>> s/v "Little Dipper" & "Edith P."
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Robert Skinner "Squirrel Haven"
>>>>>> Gorham, Maine 04038-1331
>>>>>> s/v "Little Dipper" & "Edith P."
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>
>>>>
>> http://www.nabble.com/Marines---Berkeley---More-Political-Scum-tp15205877p15253374.html
>>
>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>>
> __________________________________________________
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