[Rhodes22-list] Soup or Tuesday

[Herb Parsons]

Sorry John, you're still not "following the debate".

The issue was that you stated I was an isolationist, or at least that I 
"sounded" like one. I merely gave examples to show I'm not. Whether I 
"would have had us on the beaches of dunkirk" wasn't the issue, it was 
your assertion that I was an isolationist (or at least sounded like one).

I asked you to give me examples of what I said that indicated that. You 
gave examples, but they didn't indicate what you claim. I merely showed 
you, by example, how the statements I made do NOT qualify me as an 
isolationist.

I've yet to see where you've either said "Oh, I see, I (John) misstated 
your position", or "Oh, I see, I misunderstood what an isolationist was".

So, I'll repeat. Either you're not paying attention to the postings, you 
don't understand what an isolationist is, or you're simply so full of 
yourself that you won't admit you made a mistake.

Either way, I'm pretty much finished with this particular thread.

john Belanger wrote:
> herb,
>   for those who have not followed the thread up to now, you have summarized the debate very well. following ones national goals is a given. but if you expect to win, then you must wait for the political conditions to be right. brits believe we have a tendency to jump too soon. i agree. sounds like you would have had us on the beaches of dunkirk. roosevelt waited. i think he was right. a foreign power is always handicapped by the rise of a nationalist faction. doubly because the nationalist movement within a nation is going to be leading that nation when the foreigner has been expelled. john b. good night and good luck. john b
>    
>   
>
> Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>   While I accept your apology, my assessment is the same. Read the thread 
> below, here's what I saw:
>
> Slim stated that he was voting for Obama, and stated hoisting our 
> stature as just about the only reason.
>
> I pointed that out, and stated that I don't give a rip what other 
> countries think of us.
>
> You stated that I "sounded like an isolationist from the 30'"
>
> I challenged you to show me what I said that qualified me as an 
> isolationist (actually, I'm VERY far from being an isolationist, but 
> that's not really relevant to the point here).
>
> You then tried to use my statement about not caring what other countries 
> THOUGHT of us as some sort of proof, and YOU stated "we all want someone 
> who can represent us to the world and STAND UP TO OTHERS and be 
> respected" (my emphasis)
>
> And, in spite of your assertion to the contrary, I never said anything 
> about "kicking their a... when it's the right thing to do" (bascially 
> agreeing with the "wnat someone ... (to) stand up to others), I said 
> their butts, and no John, kicking their butts when it's the right is not 
> isolationist, you obviously misunderstand the word.
>
> I believe kicking Iraq's butt over Kuwait was the right thing to do. 
> That's not an isolationist view.
> I believe defending Korea and Vietnam was the right thing to do. That's 
> not an isolationist view.
> I believe we likely should have entered WWII in March of '39 when Hitler 
> invaded Czechoslovakia; if not then, then in September of '39 when they 
> invaded Poland. I believe this becausedoing so would have been the right 
> thing to do. That's not an isolationist view.
>
> Now, had I said something like "the only time kicking some butt is the 
> right thing to do is when they come stomp on our butt first", then you 
> could make your isolationist case.
>
>
>
> john Belanger wrote:
>   
>> herb,
>> i apologize for the misunderstanding. you mentioned kicking their a...when its the right thing to do.....i just continued the thought and i defined what i understand was an isolationist attitude. these are not my policies. they belong elsewhere. in this time of need you throw up your hands and say you don't care what other people think of america, and would never pick a pres on the basis of what other nations thought of him. i disagree. we must have someone who represents this strong nation. whose leadership qualities match our nations ideals and responsibilities. and i never said to choose solely on that basis. we have a diverse society. many people from many nations. the leader of the u.s.a. represents all the people.
>>
>> Herb Parsons wrote:
>> My my John. So, when the topic was voting for a Presidential candidate 
>> soley based on what other countries would think of us, and I responded 
>> that I don't give a rip what other countries think of you, you've now 
>> twisted that into somehow threatening to "bomb them back to the stone age"?
>>
>> Are you always that full of yourself? Or should I say so full of 
>> bullshit? Or is it both?
>>
>> You really do need to work on the reading comprehension skills some, 
>> then go back and re-read the emails in question.
>>
>> Assuming you're capable of either.
>>
>> john Belanger wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> the isolationist movement in the u.s. 1930's was based on not wanting to be involved in league of nations and world affairs. every nation has its own self interest at heart but when you say you don't give a ..... what other nations think of you, you are asking them to act accordingly. that attitude is counter productive to your own interests and will isolate you from your objective, if not from other nations, as well. !?!? threatening to bomb them back to the stone age is not the way to elicit cooperation. standing up to others gets you respect....the threat of preemtive strike (possibly nuclear), and regime change gets you hated. i've said enough. going back to work on my boat. john b
>>>
>>> Herb Parsons wrote: Actually John, you're wrong on two counts. First of all, you took it 
>>> entirely out of context, secondly, you obviously don't know what 
>>> "isolationist" is.
>>>
>>> I said nothing about concerning ourself with only our own affairs. I 
>>> said I don't give a rip about out stature in their eyes. I don't. We 
>>> should do the right thing because it's the right thing, NOT because of 
>>> what another country thinks.
>>>
>>> In instances where we need to be involved with other countries, we 
>>> should do so - again, NOT because it increases our stature in their 
>>> eyes, but because it's what we should do. In instances where we should 
>>> kick their butts, we should do so even though they're not going to like 
>>> us much afterwards.
>>>
>>> Often, "standing up to others" doesn't get you respect in the short run, 
>>> it gets you hated.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> john Belanger wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> herb,
>>>> quote:"I DON'T GIVE A RIP about our stature in the eyes of other nations",
>>>> thats isolationist, when you only want to concern yourself with your own affairs regardless of what others think. i agree you should not choose your leader on the basis of what the world thinks of him/her, but we all want someone who can represent us to the world and stand up to others and be respected. john b
>>>>
>>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>> Beg your pardon?? Show me where what I said was isolationist.
>>>>
>>>> I challenge you. You can't, because you're just blowing hot air.
>>>>
>>>> I specifically spoke to a very specific email, one that touted nothing 
>>>> about a candidate except how much better he's going to make us look to 
>>>> the rest of the world.
>>>>
>>>> If you think that makes me an isolationist, then you don't understand 
>>>> the meaning of the word.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> john Belanger wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> herb,
>>>>> you sound like an isolationist from the 30's. it didn't work then, and i don't think it works now. if we are not involved, and helping, to make the world a better place, then we are not worthy of respect by other nations. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>>> And THERE you have one of the major problems in this country.
>>>>>
>>>>> An entire paragraph outlining why you would vote for the person to lead 
>>>>> our country, and it all boils down to raising our stature in the eyes of 
>>>>> other nations.
>>>>>
>>>>> I DON'T GIVE A RIP about our stature in the eyes of other nations, and I 
>>>>> will NEVER choose a President on that basis.
>>>>>
>>>>> You obviously paid close attention the PC classes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Steven Alm wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> I'm going to caucus (when did that word become a verb?) for Yomamma tonight
>>>>>> in Minnesota. Just imagine the headlines around the world if he's elected
>>>>>> president. It would be the biggest story of the decade and would do more
>>>>>> to hoist our stature in the world than anything else we could do. The
>>>>>> whole world is watching this with 'bated breath (thank you Bill Effros--and
>>>>>> I miss him in this time of need.) For us to oust the incumbent party and
>>>>>> elect a black man would stop the presses in every country in the world and
>>>>>> our ill-fated, sickly reputation on the national stage would take a huge
>>>>>> step in showing the world we are forward-thinking. I say NO to four
>>>>>> presidents--Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton! It smacks of old boy's school.
>>>>>> It's so Banana Republic! And that, folks, is what it's down to--Clinton or
>>>>>> Obama. There's no way this country will put more of the same in office. We
>>>>>> swayed the congress last year in the mid-term election and nothing has
>>>>>> happened--this congress couldn't pass the law of gravity. We're ready for a
>>>>>> new sweep!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm Slim and I approve this message.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2008 11:30 PM, Brad Haslett wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> Robert,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Like the last line in "Charlie Wilson", "We'll see!"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As a white male, I'm in the minority of the electorate and this is a
>>>>>>> republic not a true democracy, so my voice will still be heard. Won't it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brad
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2008 10:02 PM, Robert Skinner wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> But Brad, how did the soup taste?
>>>>>>>> /Robert
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>> WARNING! Tasteless joke to follow.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> An old man was in a nursing home watching his girlfriend lifting her
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>> dress
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>> (with no panties) over her head and chanting, "Super Pussy, Super
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>> Pussy!"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>> "Ill have the soup!"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Super Tuesday. Mitt, the probable weasel or McShit the known weasel?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>> Obama
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>> who?, or the Clinton Klan we know well. If you don't know the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>> Clinton's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>> now you haven't been paying attention or you are stupid.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Politics makes strange bedfellows" adapted from Bill Shakespeare.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm voting for Mitt but Hillary really looks attractive when she has
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>> right weight of make-up on and the lighting is correct.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> God, please save my agnostic ass!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Brad
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Robert Skinner "Squirrel Haven"
>>>>>>>> Gorham, Maine 04038-1331
>>>>>>>> s/v "Little Dipper" & "Edith P."
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>     
>
>   

-- 
Herb Parsons
S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado 35