[Rhodes22-list] Berkeley East?
Brad Haslett
flybrad at gmail.com
Sat Feb 9 23:17:41 EST 2008
Rummy,
You made a wise choice not to get into a point for point debate over Katrina
with me because you will lose. I'll take rose colored glasses (which I
don't wear) in lieu of your BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome). I don't care
to defend 43, he's a lame duck President and history will soon be the
judge. The initial images from NOLA should sear in citizen's minds the
futility of treating people like children and the effects of decades and
generations of doing so. You are so very right about the true cost to the
American public never being known. I know you were talking about the
Katrina recovery efforts, but I'm thinking more along the lines of almost 45
years of the Great Society. I've invited you to visit the MS Coast for a
tour, I'll even make the one hour trek to NOLA and drive you around (daytime
hours only). I don't engage in debates with those suffering from BDS, but
will happily educate those with open minds about the recovery efforts,
successes and failures, and listen to those with useful alternative
solutions. You haven't offered any and I challenge you to outline the
optimum solution to the single most devastating natural disaster in US
history. The failures of government, local, state, and federal are
numerous. The lessons I've learned from Katrina (and I have a helluva lot
more money than the average press person or Hollywood puke invested in
Katrina) is that you personally are the one primarily responsible for
yourself and your family's well being. If you think otherwise, perhaps you
should be living in Cuba. They get lot's of hurricanes and everything is
taken care of by the government.
Brad
On Feb 9, 2008 5:26 PM, <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
> Brad,
> I'm not going to get into a point for point debate with you over the
> governments handling of the Katrina disaster because you obviously are
> wearing rose
> colored glasses. Most people that I know and I'm sure many on this list
> would
> agree with me that it was a botched job from the get go. The cost to the
> American public probably will never be known. Need I remind you of the
> hundreds
> of trucks filled with ice that never made it to the people that really
> needed
> it. Or perhaps the thousands of mobile homes that were never used?
> The entire operation was a joke. I'm not blaming the military or the local
> police, but the buck stops at the presidents desk and this man isn't
> qualified
> to handle anything. He's a joke as far as presidents go. Probably will go
> down in history as being so also. It will take decades to undo the harm
> this
> administration has done to our economy and international relations. Most
> Republicans that I know are ashamed that they voted for this man and they
> should
> be.
>
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 2/9/2008 9:32:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> flybrad at gmail.com writes:
>
> Rummy,
>
> I'm running a bit short on time but I've got just enough time to answer
> your
> question, YES! Bush 43 spoke with both Blanco and Nagin two days in
> advance
> and explained that his advisers strongly suggested evacuating NOLA. NOLA
> had a plan on the shelf, a plan sponsored and paid for with federal funds
> and tested a year prior. It remained on the shelf. After the levees
> failed, our armed forces were all over NOLA because they were poised for
> just such an event. The massive movement of temporary housing to the
> Gulf
> area immediately after Katrina was a sight to behold. I-57 and I-55 was
> clogged with RVs being towed South. The National Guard was everywhere
> maintaining civil order (as opposed to now - NOLA has had 21 murders
> since
> Jan 1 and this is only Feb 9). The collection of "big yellow equipment"
> to
> clear roads, organized and paid for by the federal government, was the
> single largest collection of construction equipment I've ever witnessed
> or
> probably ever will again. Given the size and scope of the event, I think
> the feds did the best anyone could ask for under the circumstances. The
> NOLA local government completely broke down, before, during, and after
> Katrina. Over on the Mississippi side (where Katrina actually hit), the
> state and local governments performed admirably. Here's the bottom line
> Rummy - if you live on a coastal area, 6 feet below sea level, and a CAT
> 5
> hurricane is bearing down on you, you get the hell out of town. Katrina
> did
> NOLA a favor by convincing all sane and rational people to evacuate on
> their
> own. The levee system was a disaster waiting to happen after 100 years
> of
> poor engineering and local corruption. Had they failed while the city
> was
> fully populated the death toll would have been in the tens of thousands.
>
> I'll be happy to argue this issue to your hearts content when I have
> time.
> You will lose. Better yet, come visit me on the coast and I'll give you
> a
> tour. One look around is worth more than a thousand newspapers.
>
> Brad
>
> On Feb 9, 2008 8:09 AM, <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Brad,
> > Let me see if I understand your position. You are saying that our
> > government
> > did an outstanding job in their effort to help the people after
> Katrina?
> >
> > Rummy
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 2/9/2008 8:40:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> > flybrad at gmail.com writes:
> >
> > Contrary to popular belief because of MSM spin, our armed forces were
> all
> > over NOLA after Katrina. The National Guard had headquarters set-up
> on
> > the
> > fourth floor of the SuperDome parking garage. One of my co-workers,
> an
> > Air
> > Force reservist, personally flew the mission to move a temporary
> hospital
> > to
> > the Mississippi Gulf Coast the very next day, as soon as the weather
> > cleared. Another co-worker, a Marine, evacuated his reserve units
> > helicopters to Dallas and returned to NOLA immediately after the
> storm.
> > The
> > US Coast Guard flew thousands of rescue missions.The Navy had ships
> off
> > the
> > coast that delivered water via helicopter. When my company arrived on
> the
> > MS
> > coast, the National Guard kept the beach area secure for months. I say
> to
> > any city who doesn't welcome our armed forces - fend for yourselves
> > during
> > the next natural disaster. Toledo, you're next!
> >
> > Brad
> >
> > --------------------
> >
> > Article published February 9, 2008
> >
> > Mayor to Marines: Leave downtown
> > He says urban exercises scare people
> > [image: Photo]
> >
> >
>
> <javascript:NewWindow(600,400,'/apps/pbcs.dll/misc?url=/templates/zoom.pbs&Sit
> > e=TO&Date=20080209&Category=NEWS16&ArtNo=802090394&Ref=AR');>
> > Staff Sgt. Andre Davis talks to his commanding officer as he leaves
> the
> > Madison Building after Mayor Carty Finkbeiner requested that the
> Marines
> > leave the downtown location.
> > ( THE BLADE/JEREMY WADSWORTH )
> >
> >
>
> <javascript:NewWindow(600,400,'/apps/pbcs.dll/misc?url=/templates/zoom.pbs&Sit
> > e=TO&Date=20080209&Category=NEWS16&ArtNo=802090394&Ref=AR');>
> >
> >
>
> Zoom<javascript:NewWindow(600,400,'/apps/pbcs.dll/misc?url=/templates/zoom.pbs
> > &Site=TO&Date=20080209&Category=NEWS16&ArtNo=802090394&Ref=AR');>|
> > Photo
> > Reprints <http://www.toledoblade.com/printroom>
> >
> > By JC REINDL <jcreindl at theblade.com>
> > BLADE STAFF WRITER
> >
> > A company of Marine Corps Reservists received a cold send-off from
> > downtown
> > Toledo yesterday by order of Mayor Carty Finkbeiner. The 200 members
> of
> > Company A, 1st Battalion, 24th Marines, based in Grand Rapids, Mich.,
> > planned to spend their weekend engaged in urban patrol exercises on
> the
> > streets of downtown as well as inside the mostly vacant Madison
> Building,
> > 607 Madison Ave. Toledo police knew days in advance about their plans
> for
> > a
> > three-day exercise. Yet somehow the memo never made it to Mayor
> > Finkbeiner,
> > who ordered the Marines out yesterday afternoon just minutes before
> their
> > buses were to arrive. "The mayor asked them to leave because they
> > frighten
> > people," said Brian Schwartz, the mayor's spokesman. "He did not want
> > them
> > practicing and drilling in a highly visible area." So after a brief
> stop
> > at
> > a friendly base in Perrysburg Township, the Marines by early evening
> were
> > back on their way home to Grand Rapids. "I wish they would have told
> us
> > this
> > four hours ago," Staff Sgt. Andre Davis said. Sergeant Davis, who
> > traveled
> > ahead of the five-bus convoy, stepped from his vehicle into downtown
> > about
> > 3:20 p.m. and was told by a city employee that the mayor wanted him
> and
> > his
> > soldiers packed up and out by 6 p.m. Members of the 1st Battalion,
> 24th
> > Marines have trained periodically in downtown Toledo since at least
> 2004
> > and
> > most recently in May, 2006. Past exercises have involved mock gun
> fights,
> > ambushes, and the firing of blank ammunition. The Marines' buses set
> a
> > course for their battalion's Weapons Company headquarters in
> Perrysburg
> > Township as soon as they heard of the mayor's decision. The
> Reservists'
> > visit was no surprise to Toledo police, who Tuesday issued a news
> release
> > to
> > media outlets on behalf of the Marines that asked Toledoans not to be
> > startled by the sight of camouflaged soldiers toting M16 rifles.
> Police
> > officers were awaiting the Marines' arrival yesterday afternoon and
> had
> > set
> > up a roadblock at Madison Avenue and Huron Street. "There was
> apparently
> > a
> > break in communication somewhere between the mayor and the police
> > department," Mr. Schwartz said. "Where that break was, we don't know
> > yet."
> > Maj.
> > Jeffrey O'Neill, the company's commanding officer, said he was
> > disappointed
> > by how events played out yesterday, especially because Toledo had been
> a
> > gracious host for Marine exercises in the past. "You can go to
> military
> > ranges for live fire [exercises], but there's no way to duplicate the
> > urban
> > jungle unless you actually train inside a city," Major O'Neill said.
> Mr.
> > Schwartz said the Marines declined Mayor Finkbeiner's alternative
> offer
> > for
> > them to practice their urban patrol tactics inside the former Jones
> > Junior
> > High School, 550 Walbridge Ave. Major O'Neill said he was not aware of
> > such
> > an offer. A pair of Marines spent the better part of yesterday setting
> up
> > the Madison Building with generators, heaters, radios, and food to
> become
> > the unit's overnight headquarters. After receiving the mayor's request
> to
> > leave, they began the task of moving the equipment back into an
> armored
> > Humvee. Lance Cpl. Brandon Bukrey-McCarty, 22, recalled taking part
> in
> > the
> > company's 2006 urban patrol exercise in downtown Toledo. He said he
> > learned
> > skills during that exercise that proved useful during the unit's
> > deployment
> > to Fallujah, Iraq, in 2006-2007. "It was extremely helpful," Corporal
> > Bukrey-McCarty said. The training "got me used to looking up on
> rooftops,
> > looking around every alley, every open door." Sergeant Davis and other
> > company leaders estimated the total cost of the aborted training
> > exercise,
> > including travel, at roughly $10,000. Before he left downtown for
> > Perrysburg
> > Township, Major O'Neill said he was not sure what type of training, if
> > any,
> > his unit could undertake without access to downtown Toledo. "But we're
> > Marines," Major O'Neill said. "We'll adapt and overcome."
> > __________________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
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