[Rhodes22-list] Politics

Tue Feb 12 18:04:30 EST 2008

I gotta bow out of this for now, Herb.  I'll leave you with another good
reason to vote for Obama:

http://www.indecision2008.com/blog.jhtml?c=vc&videoId=156274

Slim

On Feb 12, 2008 5:00 PM, Steven Alm <stevenalm at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Feb 12, 2008 4:27 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>
> > And you somehow attribute all of this to the "current occupant"?
>
>
> Yes.
>
> >
> >
> > The economy is not the ruins you portray. Yes, we have a large debt. Do
> > you think it's unpayable? Maybe you can point us to a time when we were
> > at war and DIDN'T incur a large debt.
>
>
> Yes, the debt will be payable by our grandchildren.
>
> >
> >
> > No one is afraid to "utter the R word", they haven't needed to. It
> > hasn't happened.
>
>
> Yet.
>
> >
> >
> > All wars lose lives, all wars cost money. That damage is known, and
> > typically accepted, as part of war.
>
>
> You asked "what damage" and now at least you agree there has been some.
> Sorry you see it as "typically accepted."  How very nonchelant. If the war
> in Iraq were necessary, I'd try to keep a stiff upper lip about the loses
> too but it's not and I don't.
>
> >
> >
> > Civil liberties are also almost always temporarily "lost" during time of
> > war. This one is no different. Your assertion that the "government no
> > longer needs a warrant to eavesdrop" is pure hyperbole. They don't need
> > warrants to eaves drop on foreigners. If the conversations are with
> > Americans, that's part of the war. Please, if you want to have a
> > rational discussion, don't just make things up as you go.
>
>
> Warrentless eavesdropping is no hyperbole, Herb.
>
> >
> >
> > I have no issue with you being a Bush-basher. As a matter of fact, I'm
> > glad you finally identified your hyperbole for what it is. That was my
> > point all along.
>
>
>  My being a Bush-basher is no secret nor is it hyperbole.  You never
> answered my most basic question:  What has he done for you or me lately?
>
> Slim
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Steven Alm wrote:
> > > Herb,
> > >
> > > I think the decline and damage is pretty obvious.  Shall we start with
> > the
> > > economy?  The 10 trillion dollar debt?  The "R" word that everybody is
> > > afraid to utter?  Do you not see how the war in Iraq has done damage
> > to us
> > > in lives lost, money lost and yes, our stature in the world?  Congress
> > is to
> > > blame as well.  How about our loss of civil rights?  The government no
> > > longer needs a warrant to eavesdrop.  What about the "signing
> > statements"
> > > Bush has used in every bill he signed thus making a mockery of the
> > whole
> > > process?  He seems to think that "executive privilege" makes him and
> > his
> > > cabinet above the law.  I'm sure you remember the Valery Plame issue.
> >  How
> > > about his easing the restrictions on how much mercury production
> > plants are
> > > allowed to spit out?
> > >
> > > Do you have any facts that show we're not in decline or that there has
> > been
> > > no damage?  Please show me something I can be happy about.  If you
> > take
> > > issue with me for being a Bush-basher you're going to have to show me
> > why I
> > > shouldn't be one.  What has he done for me or you lately?  I guess now
> > he
> > > wants to send me a few hundred bucks (borrowed from the Chinese) so I
> > can go
> > > out and buy something made in China.  Does that make any sense?
> > >
> > > Slim
> > >
> > > On Feb 12, 2008 2:43 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> Slim,
> > >>
> > >> I'm not trying to convince you to "trust this administration". I have
> > no
> > >> reason for you to trust this administration. If they were running for
> > >> something, and I was trying to get them elected, I might have need to
> > >> try to convince you. They're not, I'm not.
> > >>
> > >> As it stands, they apparently didn't convince you to trust them, but
> > >> they DID convince those that voted for them, and thus got the job.
> > >>
> > >> However, if I may remind you what started this little bit of
> > silliness
> > >> was the statement you made:
> > >>
> > >> "Brad, I don't know how much farther our country can decline before
> > you
> > >> realize how much damage has been done by the current occupant."
> > >>
> > >> Though you directed the question to Brad, I assumed it was open to
> > all,
> > >> so I simply asked what damage. You haven't convinced ME (or Brad, I
> > >> suspect). You and Rummy both have put up a lot of nonsense from
> > others,
> > >> but I've yet to see a thought out description from either of you
> > >> PERSONALLY of the "damage" you've talked about.
> > >>
> > >> I suspect it's not going to come.
> > >>
> > >> I suspect there's a reason too...
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Steven Alm wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Brad, not sure what you're taliking about.
> > >>>
> > >>> Herb, since you're so into the facts, why don't you start with some.
> > >>>
> > >>  Give
> > >>
> > >>> me the facts on why I or any of us should trust this administration.
> > >>>
> > >>> Slim
> > >>>
> > >>> On Feb 12, 2008 2:04 PM, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> Slim,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Out the door and running late!  What were we talking about?  Did
> > Grant
> > >>>>
> > >> get
> > >>
> > >>>> surprised at Shiloh in 62' and should he have thrown his forces
> > into
> > >>>>
> > >> the
> > >>
> > >>>> "Hornets Nest" during the afternoon?  Oh, we're talking now?  OK,
> > what
> > >>>>
> > >> is
> > >>
> > >>>> the Messiah's vision for Iraq in 2010?  Inquiring minds want to
> > know.
> > >>>> Don't
> > >>>> give me hope, I got that.  Change?  No shit, Sherlock!  Things damn
> > >>>>
> > >> sure
> > >>
> > >>>> change.  Give me the plan! Any plan will do as long as it doesn't
> > use
> > >>>>
> > >> the
> > >>
> > >>>> word "hope" or "change" without defining what the meaning of change
> > >>>>
> > >> "is".
> > >>
> > >>>> Brad
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Feb 12, 2008 1:45 PM, Steven Alm <stevenalm at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> On Feb 12, 2008 1:00 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> The question as to whether or not the Bush administration was a
> > >>>>>> "catastrophe" is definitely open to debate. The person writing is
> > >>>>>> expressing an opinion, not fact.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> So you're saying this has NOT been a catastrphe?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> The question of wether or not the Iraq war was a "tragedy" that
> > was
> > >>>>>> caused by the Bush administration is open to debate, again
> > expressing
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>> an
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> opinion, not fact. (The FACT is that the war was authorized by
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>> congress,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> and the result of many violations of a cease-fire agreement, and
> > >>>>>> agreement that was structured during the previous Bush
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>> admninistration,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> and violated numerous times during the Clinton administration,
> > but
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>> hey,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> let's not let facts get in the way of a good Bush-bashing).
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> So you're saying the war in Iraq is NOT a tragedy ?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> The "shame" of Guantanamo is that so many leftists have made it
> > out
> > >>>>>>
> > >> to
> > >>
> > >>>>>> be something worse than it its.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> So you're saying the situation in Guantanamo is OK?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> The "shame" of Abu Gharib was NOT the result of "the Bush
> > >>>>>> administration", that's hyperbole.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> Wasn't Donald Rumsfeld part of the Bush administration?  What ever
> > >>>>> happened
> > >>>>> to "the buck stops here?"
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Slim
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> __________________________________________________
> > >>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> __________________________________________________
> > >>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>> __________________________________________________
> > >>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> --
> > >> Herb Parsons
> > >> S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
> > >> S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado 35
> > >>
> > >> __________________________________________________
> > >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>
> > >>
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Herb Parsons
> > S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
> > S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado 35
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
>
>