[Rhodes22-list] What Should I Have Done Differently?
Rik Sandberg
sanderico1 at gmail.com
Wed Feb 20 16:08:31 EST 2008
Herb,
Nope. Just let the main take care of itself. It will fill and luff
continually, on it's own, the whole while you are hove to.
Rik
There is no magic to Free Enterprise. It is the best way to create wealth, but it does not prevent people from making mistakes. Capitalism offers people a chance to make money. But it also offers them a chance to make fools of themselves. Free Enterprise – like the rest of life – merely permits nature to take her course.....Bill Bonner
Herb Parsons wrote:
> Yeah, I always thought it stopped abruptly, but I don't do anything more
> with the main, I just let it luff. Is there something I'm missing?
>
> Hank wrote:
>
>> The video looked like it stopped a minute or two too soon. It didn't show
>> what to do with the main after you lash the tiller.
>>
>> Hank
>>
>>
>> On 2/20/08, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> For anyone who didn't have the "light bulb go on", here are two very
>>> good links on the subject. The first is a video, and second is a more
>>> detailed description of the procedure, and what it does (really geared
>>> to open water sailing). On the second link, you have to scroll about 2/3
>>> the way down for the specifics on heaving-to.
>>>
>>> One interesting side note on heaving-to under heavy weather conditions -
>>> and please note, this is just what I was told, I've not had the
>>> opporunity to try this in a storm. Supposedly, heaving-to in a storm not
>>> only gives you a break from sailing the weather, it also is calms the
>>> waves hitting the boat. The theory is that because a hove-to boat is
>>> actually going downwind "sideways", the waterflow under the hull lessens
>>> the impact of the waves on the windward side of the hull.
>>>
>>> I waited two years before I actually tried heaving-to because I 1)
>>> didn't believe it would work and 2) figured if it DID work, every sailor
>>> I knew would know how to do it (only one that knew actually did). It was
>>> when I saw the video below that I finally believed it would actually
>>> work. I've made up my mind that the next time a decent storm blows
>>> through, even if I'm just on the lake, I'm going to test out the
>>> "calming the waters" idea.
>>>
>>> http://www.videos.sailingcourse.com/heaving_to_wmv1.htm
>>>
>>> http://www.boats.com/news-reviews/articledetail.html?lid=1284
>>>
>>> Caesar Paul wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Jack,
>>>>
>>>> I felt the same way about Slim's explanation of the "heave to"
>>>>
>>>>
>>> procedure.
>>>
>>>
>>>> The light bulb did go on Slim, thats an accomplishment.
>>>>
>>>> Caesar
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>> From: Jack Chirch <jchirch at hughes.net>
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 4:31:58 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] What Should I Have Done Differently?
>>>>
>>>> Slim -
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the clear explanation. I've passed a couple of dinghy
>>>>
>>>>
>>> sailing
>>>
>>>
>>>> courses, and spent a few days on friends' boats--even sailed my Rhodes
>>>>
>>>>
>>> once,
>>>
>>>
>>>> and had a vague idea how to accomplish this, but your step-through makes
>>>>
>>>>
>>> it
>>>
>>>
>>>> much clearer. Think I may paste it under the bill of my cap!
>>>>
>>>> Jack
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Steven Alm
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 4:37 AM
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] What Should I Have Done Differently?
>>>>
>>>> Jack,
>>>>
>>>> Re heaving to: It's considered one of the points of sail even though
>>>>
>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>
>>>> idea is to stop sailing and drift, but without dropping your sails and
>>>> without the chaos of luffing. It's very easy to do and I use it all the
>>>> time whenever I need to use the head or go below for any reason like
>>>>
>>>>
>>> making
>>>
>>>
>>>> a snack, making a repair or just taking a break. And in context of this
>>>> thread, it's a great way to make changes in your sail plan--especially
>>>>
>>>>
>>> if
>>>
>>>
>>>> your single-handing.
>>>>
>>>> Get yourself on a close reach and then plan to come about. Come about
>>>> through the wind like usual but don't let the jib sheet go after you
>>>>
>>>>
>>> come
>>>
>>>
>>>> about. Let the main tack across like usual. Now ease the main sheet
>>>>
>>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>>
>>>> ease the jib sheet some but don't release it. This is called
>>>>
>>>>
>>> "back-winding
>>>
>>>
>>>> the main." So now your jib is full and very baggy and your main is
>>>>
>>>>
>>> luffing
>>>
>>>
>>>> a little for a moment then stops. You put the helm to the lee. In
>>>>
>>>>
>>> other
>>>
>>>
>>>> words the tiller and the boom are approximately perpendicular. Lock the
>>>> tiller in place and now you are hands free. The boat will yaw back and
>>>> forth some but mostly beam to the wind and slowly drifting downwind.
>>>> Centerboard down will slow the drift.
>>>>
>>>> To reef in the jib, you first ease out its (windward) sheet and then
>>>>
>>>>
>>> take in
>>>
>>>
>>>> the reefing line. If you need to reef in the main, you should heave to
>>>>
>>>>
>>> on a
>>>
>>>
>>>> port tack so the boom is off to starboard. To get going all you have to
>>>>
>>>>
>>> do
>>>
>>>
>>>> is release the windward sheet and take it in on the other side just like
>>>> completing your tack. Adjust both sheets as desired and you're under
>>>>
>>>>
>>> way
>>>
>>>
>>>> immediately.
>>>>
>>>> About those four horn cleats on the boom; I always tie the inhaul line
>>>>
>>>>
>>> on
>>>
>>>
>>>> the first cleat, most forward and the outhaul line on the second cleat.
>>>> That way both lines are close together and I don't have to lean way out
>>>>
>>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>>
>>>> get to the out haul and have the same problem with that as Mark
>>>>
>>>>
>>> describes.
>>>
>>>
>>>> The slack tails of those two lines are easily dealt with in many
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ways. Get
>>>
>>>
>>>> creative.
>>>>
>>>> Heaving to is also how I reroute my jib sheets to the inboard position
>>>> should I need to do that. First, heave to in the way described
>>>>
>>>>
>>> above. Once
>>>
>>>
>>>> you're hoven (hiven? heaved? Having hove?) reroute the lee sheet (the
>>>>
>>>>
>>> slack
>>>
>>>
>>>> one.) Now cut loose the windward sheet and get under way. Pick up a
>>>>
>>>>
>>> little
>>>
>>>
>>>> speed and tack across and heave to on the other side and reroute the
>>>>
>>>>
>>> other
>>>
>>>
>>>> sheet. With some practice, this double heave to is sort of like ballet
>>>>
>>>>
>>> or
>>>
>>>
>>>> skiing royal christies.
>>>>
>>>> Heaving to is also one of the tactics of storm survival but since I'm a
>>>>
>>>>
>>> lake
>>>
>>>
>>>> sailor, that'd put me up on the lee shore in no time. Best git on home.
>>>>
>>>> Slim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 18, 2008 11:49 PM, David Bradley <dwbrad at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Mark, you've probably gotten your fill of advice by now. One thing I
>>>>> would add... once I'm clear of my slip I disconnect the steering
>>>>> mechanism from tiller to motor while still motoring. Does your
>>>>> outboard have a pin to lock it in position? The tiller will be 300%
>>>>> lighter in your hand, and you can then unfurl the sails, kill the
>>>>> motor and be underway, raising the motor when you're ready. I use the
>>>>> steering mechanism only when I'm in a tight area.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 18, 2008 12:55 PM, <mputnam1 at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am hoping you can help me learn from my sailing experience today.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> know I must have done some things wrong, but maybe I did a few things
>>>>> right because I was able to get back to the harbor safely in the end.
>>>>> Let me describe what happened and then ask a few questions. And let
>>>>> me apologize in advance for not getting all my nautical terms right …
>>>>> I'll do the best I can.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> My R-22 is kept at the Washington Sailing Marina on the Potomac
>>>>>> River,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> just across the river from DC. The weather this morning was
>>>>> unseasonably warm with winds in the 15-20 knot range with gusts up to
>>>>> 29, according to the coast guard weather report. I knew a cold front
>>>>> was approaching and that it would get windier as the day went on, but
>>>>> it was around 11am and while I was a little uncertain about going out,
>>>>> it was one of those rare weekdays when my lack of work intersected
>>>>> with wind on the water. So I decided to try and see if I could handle
>>>>> it and learn something at the same time. I had thought I'd read
>>>>> enough on this group about how to handle the boat in windier
>>>>> conditions – I wanted to put some of that knowledge to the test.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I was single-handing the boat and motored out of the marina and down
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Potomac to where I usually head for the center of the river before
>>>>> killing the engine, hauling it up and unfurling the main. Before I
>>>>> killed the engine, I noted that the water was choppy, but there were
>>>>> no white caps. I resolved to myself that if I began to see white
>>>>> caps, I'd head home. I pointed into the wind, killed the engine,
>>>>> hauled the engine up and only let out a little less than half of the
>>>>> main (having read so many posts on this group about being conservative
>>>>> in windier weather) and it almost immediately got out of my control.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The boat swerved into a beam reach and began tipping over, so I let
>>>>>> out
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> the main sheet to try and keep the mainsail from tipping me over.
>>>>> Right then I noticed that white caps had appeared (great timing on my
>>>>> part). The clew and the foot of the main sail was thrashing around,
>>>>> with a good amount of airspace between the clew and the boom.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> As an aside, I've never quite understood what is supposed to keep
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> foot of the sail close to the boom besides just securing the sheet.
>>>>> In these stronger winds, the main was actively pulling away from the
>>>>> boom. Am I perhaps missing some key component to keep the bottom/foot
>>>>> of the main sail in tighter proximity to the boom?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Because I had let out the main sheet to try and control the heeling,
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> could not reach the line to furl the mainsail back into the mast. The
>>>>> line was out over the water. So I was having to try and pull the boom
>>>>> back into the cockpit to get a grip on the furling sheet … which, of
>>>>> course, led to more heeling. And when I pulled on the line to furl
>>>>> the main, it wouldn't furl.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> And, most disturbingly, with so much wind filling the small amount
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> the main that was out, I just couldn't furl the sail. It wouldn't
>>>>> budge. I also noticed that more of the main seemed to be inching out.
>>>>> I thought I had secured the main so it wouldn't further unfurl, but I
>>>>> don't remember if I had and I don't remember checking it in all the
>>>>> hullabaloo. It never fully unfurled, thank goodness, so maybe I had
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> secured it to some degree.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, every time I tried to point the boat into the wind, it
>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> help give me more slack to furl the main. It was noisy as hell, of
>>>>> course, which I expected. But I didn't get the slackness necessary to
>>>>> furl the main. And the boat didn't want to stay pointed into the
>>>>> wind, which I found a little surprising. I thought sailboats, when
>>>>> pointed into the wind, stayed there. But I guess I learned otherwise
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> today!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> I eventually put the motor back in the water, cranked it up and
>>>>>> powered
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> into the wind. The swells had increased to the point that the engine
>>>>> was coming up out of the water on every swell, but at least I was
>>>>> seeming to make progress. I then somehow pulled hard enough on the
>>>>> furling line to be able to furl the main. I don't know how I did it,
>>>>> but I did. At this point, I noticed that my tiller to engine linkage
>>>>> was not working. The 8hp Mercury motor I have only has one latch to
>>>>> hold the cowling onto the engine and it was failing with the severe
>>>>> pressure on the cowling, and the cowling was being ripped off the
>>>>> engine. I had to use the engine tiller to point the motor. I tried
>>>>> to disengage the linkage, but in the frenzy of the moment, I wasn't
>>>>> able to do that. So I just continued steering by using both the boat's
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> tiller and the engine's tiller.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> I eventually made it closer to the shore where the wind wasn't as
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> severe, and was able to disengage the tiller linkage and made it back
>>>>> to the dock.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> So here are my questions:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) First, the most basic question -- whenever I go out on 5 knot
>>>>>> days, I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> make little progress on the water. And if 15-20 knot days are too
>>>>> much, it seems a narrow window indeed that I am able to sail in. Is
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> this
>>>
>>>
>>>> the case?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Is the R-22 a boat that should only go out in 10-12 knot winds in
>>>>> order to best enjoy it?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) What should I have done differently when the half unfurled main
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> immediately got out of my control? Should I have steered the boat
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> DOWNwind?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Would it have been easier to furl the main if I had done that? Or is
>>>>> steering the boat INTO the wind and the chop the right thing to do?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 3) Is there something I should be doing differently so that the clew
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> the mainsail doesn't get pulled so far away from the boom in windy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> weather?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> It seemed very loose and uncontrollable. This was one of the two
>>>>> most disconcerting parts of the experience (the other being the
>>>>> inability to furl the main).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 4) In a worst case scenario where I can't furl the main (especially
>>>>>> if
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> it's fully unfurled) in strong winds, should I just try to motor to
>>>>> shore with the main flapping away and catching wind? I didn't know in
>>>>> the situation I was in if the imperative is to a) try and furl the
>>>>> main first or
>>>>> b) to just get myself out of the windy area of the river even if it
>>>>> means motoring with the main unfurled. I was afraid that if I tried
>>>>> to do option b, that the boat could tip over if I was going in a
>>>>> direction that was putting the main into a position to be able to tip
>>>>> the boat. In retrospect, I'm now thinking that it's possible to motor
>>>>> with the main unfurled, as long as the main sheet is fully out and
>>>>> allowing the main to go wherever it wants to go.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 5) Has anyone else with the tiller/engine linkage had a similar
>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> in strong wind situations? The cowling only has the one latch on the
>>>>> back of the engine (furthest astern) and this one latch was clearly a
>>>>> weak point in situations of stress on the linkage. If I'm going to be
>>>>> relying on this linkage in bad weather conditions, do any of you have
>>>>> any advice on where and how I can get more latches put on my cowling?
>>>>> OR should I not attempt to use the linkage in stronger winds?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 6) What should be the role of the motor in these situations? Is it
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> first thing to engage to get the boat pointed in a particular
>>>>> direction? Or is it the last thing to resort to? Should I be able to
>>>>> furl the main without using the engine?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have to tell you, it was very disconcerting to have trouble
>>>>>> furling
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> the mainsail. I have loved the innermast furling main up until this
>>>>> point … but pulling with all my might on the line was doing nothing.
>>>>> It just refused to budge. I still don't know quite how I was able to
>>>>> get it finally furled. It must have had something to do with engaging
>>>>> the motor in the process, but I don't know for sure.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> For anyone out there who is reading this and considering purchasing
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> R-22, please know that I think this is a marvelous boat. The
>>>>> inner-furling mast is something that I've been very happy with up
>>>>> until today and perhaps it's all a function of this being too much
>>>>> wind for the boat. Or too much wind for me, a relatively inexperienced
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> sailor.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know for sure the best way to learn how to sail in weather
>>>>>> like
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> this … especially if I feel I have to go back to the dock as soon as
>>>>> there are white caps. Maybe there is someone out there who is
>>>>> experienced in this sort of weather AND knows the R-22 who can tutor
>>>>> me on-board in just this sort of weather, but finding that person
>>>>> would not be easy. But I am ready for any and all suggestions.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for reading this very long email and I look forward to any
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> all advice … including "stay the hell out of 20 knot wind weather."
>>>>> Maybe that's the root of the problem, but it seems easy to imagine
>>>>> that going out in a 10 knot day could easily turn into a 20 knot day
>>>>> with gusts in no time at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Mark P.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> ____ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://webmail.aol.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> David Bradley
>>>>> +1.206.234.3977
>>>>> dwbrad at gmail.com
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
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>>>>
>>>>
>>> 2/16/2008
>>>
>>>
>>>> 2:16 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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>>>>
>>> 2/19/2008
>>>
>>>
>>>> 10:55 AM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Herb Parsons
>>> S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
>>> S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado 35
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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