[Rhodes22-list] Information gathering
R22RumRunner at aol.com
R22RumRunner at aol.com
Wed Jul 23 10:50:43 EDT 2008
Elle,
You are correct, communities change. People come and people go, but this
list has a charter. It's kinda like the constitution. It's what we live by on da
list. If you find someone's actions or posts offensive, do something about
it. Contact them directly, off the list and deal with the problem, don't try to
fix what ain't broken. Reread the charter so that you understand what it
says and what was meant when it was adopted many, many years ago. The founding
fathers were brilliant people.
Rummy
In a message dated 7/23/2008 8:36:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
watermusic38 at yahoo.com writes:
Rummy,
Communities change and grow in directions influenced by their deinzens.
The tone of 'da list' has become quite more abrasive and bullying than it
was before I joined...& i lurked for quite a long time before my first posting.
Yahoo has an integrated address book w/in its mail program...I occasionally
go thru it & delete duplicate addresses...I did this address the other
day....and was really surprised at the number of names that were frequent posters
back when I was lurking but haven't been heard of for quite a while.
If this list doesn't grow, it will collapse under the weight of the bully
rhetoric. It is my opinion that the tone has changed BECAUSE there is very
little new input...the newbies don't stick around for civility to take over.
They have no idea that it is any different than the snapshot they see.
There will be no fresh ideas w/o fresh faces.....and once you guys finish
beating up on each other...what will be left? Wait for another election to
start over again? That'll get old for you guys, too.
The list does sit dormant now for a day or so...often after an acrimonious
beating......
The founding fellas of 'da list' are 'way past the need for sailing advice
other than the "Hey, wouldja lookit this" type posting.....it's the newbies
that keep you rethinking technique and methods w/their questions....
So either 'da list' will become a closed community of a few who beat up on
each other for sport, or it will be an 'interesting' place to hang around for
info on sailing & whatever floats by.
Whatever....
elle
We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.
1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
--- On Wed, 7/23/08, R22RumRunner at aol.com <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
> From: R22RumRunner at aol.com <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Information gathering
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 7:59 AM
> Arthur,
> As has been stated previously, this list was started
> because we wanted to be
> able to post pictures and not have to worry about a sailnet
> moderator
> stepping in to control our conversations. With all due
> respect, you are very new to
> all of us and I don't believe that you are in a
> position to decide where the
> list should go or how it should be run. This is a
> community. We have a
> charter and when someone steps over the bounds of the
> charter, we police ourselves.
> Yes, I am concerned that a poll from 268 non participating
> people would lead
> us in a direction the original founders and participating
> members of this
> list don't want it to go in. We have lost a few people
> over the years, but the
> list is still strong with a large knowledge base and we
> will continue this
> way for many years. Read the charter. Understand it and if
> you think someone
> has stepped over the line, call them on it, but leave this
> site the way it is.
>
> Rummy said that.
>
>
> In a message dated 7/22/2008 9:54:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight
> Time,
> czerwonky at earthlink.net writes:
>
> John,
>
> I have no objection to having a poll. Rummy, are you
> worried what results
> will show? Stan has sent potential skippers to the list
> as a promotional
> witness, I have some doubts about whether it helps his
> efforts. I think the
> prime objective for those subscribing to the list is
> building their sailing
> knowledge and cohesion in the fleet. The often exagerated
> and pointless emotion
> and language may provide a momentary email thrill, but
> face it folks, there
> are better ways to get the points across.
>
> A poll could have distorted for sure, but not only because
> of the votes of
> new skippers who are sick of political posturing, but due
> to the loss over
> time of excellent former members who were sick of the
> bickering and were labeled
> as internet police and the like, just for expressing their
> feelings
> honestly. Numerous newbies and veterans have been treated
> in this way.
>
> It has been suggested that the Rhodes 22 sailing advocates
> post their
> messages on Sailnet or some other forum instead of this
> one. I suggest that
> Rhodes22.org is by definition a Rhodes22 sailing site, and
> that if someone really
> wants to post political swill, they should have no right
> to soil the Rhodes22
> skipper list or the Rhodes 22 name. Maybe a more
> appropriate site should be
> their destination when they lose control.
>
> Nothing wrong with meaningful political insights, but in
> the tone and manner
> I have seen, it is just way overdone.
>
> I refer back to sometimes comments about an unnamed member
> of our fleet -
> those who cannot get their point across in a civil way are
> demonstrating their
> 'mounting problems' to everyone now or later who
> reads about our Rhodes 22
> boat and fleet. Some legacy we help provide to Stan. As
> he has gotten into
> some of the dialogue, I have not seen a need by him to be
> foul in doing so.
> Maybe we could follow his example...
>
> Art
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: R22RumRunner at aol.com
> >Sent: Jul 22, 2008 7:04 PM
> >To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Information gathering
> >
> >John,
> >Taking a poll is a lousy idea. You are giving people
> that have never and
> >probably will never add anything to the list decide
> what direction we go
> in. I
> >think if anyone wanted to, they could certainly
> express their opinions
> freely
> >on da list. I think the majority of the people like it
> just fine. Everyone
> >knows how to use the delete button. There are times
> when I don't have the
> time
> >to read all posts, but will sift through the ones
> that are sailing related.
> >
> >Rummy
> >
> >
> >In a message dated 7/22/2008 4:58:17 P.M. Eastern
> Daylight Time,
> >jlock at relevantarts.com writes:
> >
> >At 04:25 PM 7/22/2008 -0400, Michael D. Weisner
> wrote:
> >>I wonder if we can try to solve the problem a bit
> differently than
> chasing
> >>otherwise good folks off the list. Maybe John
> can set up a third
> >>distribution mode in addition to
> "Non-digested" and "Digested",
> something
> >>called "Sailing limited" which would
> only receive items of sailing
> interest.
> >>Maybe we could use a prefixed subject line
> modifier such as "Sailing:" to
> >>direct these posts to the limited list as well as
> the general list.
> >>Forgetting to add the subject line modifier will
> only affect those who do
> >>not wish to be on "da list", not the
> rest of us. John, is such a thing
> >>doable?
> >
> >Doable, but probably not practical. Besides the
> programing involved,
> >it depends on the poster remembering to place the
> magic word in the
> >subject line. We all know how well THAT works!
> >
> >Seriously... before we can discuss making any changes,
> we need more
> >information. Right now we have no sense of what the
> majority
> >wants. We've heard from the usual suspects on
> what they want, but
> >there are 268 list members; most of whom have not
> stated a preference.
> >
> >We might assume that everything is hunky-dory, since
> we don't have
> >268 complaints. But that may be because no good
> alternatives have
> >been proposed.
> >
> >I'd like to suggest a simple poll. I can whip
> one up in a few
> >minutes and post the URL to the list. We'll run
> it for a couple
> >weeks and see what kind of stats come out. Might be
> interesting to
> >have some facts to kick around... yes?
> >
> >Cheers!
> >
> >John Lock
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
> >Lake Sinclair, GA
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
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