[Rhodes22-list] Information gathering
R22RumRunner at aol.com
R22RumRunner at aol.com
Wed Jul 23 11:26:20 EDT 2008
Elle,
This list is not my sandbox. I'm just trying to get you to understand that
we all are responsible for the content of the list. If something is out of line
or objectionable or inflammatory, it's up to ALL of us to correct the
behavior or leave it alone. Pressure from list members is going to have more of an
effect than one person leaving the list because they didn't like something
someone said.
Belly up to the bar boys and girls, the drinks are on me.
Rummy
In a message dated 7/23/2008 11:22:01 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
watermusic38 at yahoo.com writes:
OK, Mr. Rummmmmmmy ;^), I did just that..just in case i was forgetting or
unremembering something...
Some (what I thought) were more pertinent points...and I quote:
1. * The level of discussion does not have to be fit for a child, but
some good taste is expected. (Hmmmm..kinda lost that for a while....)
2. Netiquette: Posts to the group are expected to be considerate of other
readers. Personal abuse, flames, and obscenities are *not*
appreciated; but we are sailors....... (yea...but we're not down at the
level of powerboaters. Not a slur..just an observation based on working for three
years at a very busy marina)
3. There is a high level of chitchat on the list, and what you might think
is insulting to a group or region might only be people kidding each other
after knowing them for years. (if we can't tell kidding from nasty & insult
then it must be nasty & insult.)
3. As in any bar, the subjects of politics and religion can lead to heated
augments and bar fights. These might be best avoided.
Again, Rummy, I know this is your sandbox & i'm just a guest....I'm not
trying to run things or be a schoolmarm trying to stifle free speech...more like
a mom who feels bad whenher kids re fighting 7 can't get'em to stop.
Again, what do 'nasty , overbearing and crude' add to any discussiion? We
know you're guys...;^)
elle
We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.
1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
--- On Wed, 7/23/08, R22RumRunner at aol.com <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
> From: R22RumRunner at aol.com <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Information gathering
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 10:50 AM
> Elle,
> You are correct, communities change. People come and people
> go, but this
> list has a charter. It's kinda like the constitution.
> It's what we live by on da
> list. If you find someone's actions or posts offensive,
> do something about
> it. Contact them directly, off the list and deal with the
> problem, don't try to
> fix what ain't broken. Reread the charter so that you
> understand what it
> says and what was meant when it was adopted many, many
> years ago. The founding
> fathers were brilliant people.
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 7/23/2008 8:36:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight
> Time,
> watermusic38 at yahoo.com writes:
>
> Rummy,
>
> Communities change and grow in directions influenced by
> their deinzens.
>
> The tone of 'da list' has become quite more
> abrasive and bullying than it
> was before I joined...& i lurked for quite a long time
> before my first posting.
>
> Yahoo has an integrated address book w/in its mail
> program...I occasionally
> go thru it & delete duplicate addresses...I did this
> address the other
> day....and was really surprised at the number of names
> that were frequent posters
> back when I was lurking but haven't been heard of for
> quite a while.
>
> If this list doesn't grow, it will collapse under the
> weight of the bully
> rhetoric. It is my opinion that the tone has changed
> BECAUSE there is very
> little new input...the newbies don't stick around for
> civility to take over.
> They have no idea that it is any different than the
> snapshot they see.
>
> There will be no fresh ideas w/o fresh faces.....and once
> you guys finish
> beating up on each other...what will be left? Wait for
> another election to
> start over again? That'll get old for you guys, too.
>
> The list does sit dormant now for a day or so...often
> after an acrimonious
> beating......
>
> The founding fellas of 'da list' are 'way past
> the need for sailing advice
> other than the "Hey, wouldja lookit this" type
> posting.....it's the newbies
> that keep you rethinking technique and methods w/their
> questions....
>
> So either 'da list' will become a closed
> community of a few who beat up on
> each other for sport, or it will be an
> 'interesting' place to hang around for
> info on sailing & whatever floats by.
>
> Whatever....
>
> elle
>
>
> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can
> adjust our sails.
>
> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic"
> (Lady in Red)
>
>
> --- On Wed, 7/23/08, R22RumRunner at aol.com
> <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > From: R22RumRunner at aol.com
> <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Information gathering
> > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 7:59 AM
> > Arthur,
> > As has been stated previously, this list was started
> > because we wanted to be
> > able to post pictures and not have to worry about a
> sailnet
> > moderator
> > stepping in to control our conversations. With all
> due
> > respect, you are very new to
> > all of us and I don't believe that you are in a
> > position to decide where the
> > list should go or how it should be run. This is a
> > community. We have a
> > charter and when someone steps over the bounds of
> the
> > charter, we police ourselves.
> > Yes, I am concerned that a poll from 268 non
> participating
> > people would lead
> > us in a direction the original founders and
> participating
> > members of this
> > list don't want it to go in. We have lost a few
> people
> > over the years, but the
> > list is still strong with a large knowledge base and
> we
> > will continue this
> > way for many years. Read the charter. Understand it
> and if
> > you think someone
> > has stepped over the line, call them on it, but
> leave this
> > site the way it is.
> >
> > Rummy said that.
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 7/22/2008 9:54:41 P.M. Eastern
> Daylight
> > Time,
> > czerwonky at earthlink.net writes:
> >
> > John,
> >
> > I have no objection to having a poll. Rummy, are you
>
> > worried what results
> > will show? Stan has sent potential skippers to the
> list
> > as a promotional
> > witness, I have some doubts about whether it helps
> his
> > efforts. I think the
> > prime objective for those subscribing to the list is
> > building their sailing
> > knowledge and cohesion in the fleet. The often
> exagerated
> > and pointless emotion
> > and language may provide a momentary email thrill,
> but
> > face it folks, there
> > are better ways to get the points across.
> >
> > A poll could have distorted for sure, but not only
> because
> > of the votes of
> > new skippers who are sick of political posturing, but
> due
> > to the loss over
> > time of excellent former members who were sick of the
>
> > bickering and were labeled
> > as internet police and the like, just for expressing
> their
> > feelings
> > honestly. Numerous newbies and veterans have been
> treated
> > in this way.
> >
> > It has been suggested that the Rhodes 22 sailing
> advocates
> > post their
> > messages on Sailnet or some other forum instead of
> this
> > one. I suggest that
> > Rhodes22.org is by definition a Rhodes22 sailing
> site, and
> > that if someone really
> > wants to post political swill, they should have no
> right
> > to soil the Rhodes22
> > skipper list or the Rhodes 22 name. Maybe a more
> > appropriate site should be
> > their destination when they lose control.
> >
> > Nothing wrong with meaningful political insights,
> but in
> > the tone and manner
> > I have seen, it is just way overdone.
> >
> > I refer back to sometimes comments about an unnamed
> member
> > of our fleet -
> > those who cannot get their point across in a civil way
> are
> > demonstrating their
> > 'mounting problems' to everyone now or later
> who
> > reads about our Rhodes 22
> > boat and fleet. Some legacy we help provide to
> Stan. As
> > he has gotten into
> > some of the dialogue, I have not seen a need by him
> to be
> > foul in doing so.
> > Maybe we could follow his example...
> >
> > Art
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >From: R22RumRunner at aol.com
> > >Sent: Jul 22, 2008 7:04 PM
> > >To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Information
> gathering
> > >
> > >John,
> > >Taking a poll is a lousy idea. You are giving
> people
> > that have never and
> > >probably will never add anything to the list
> decide
> > what direction we go
> > in. I
> > >think if anyone wanted to, they could certainly
> > express their opinions
> > freely
> > >on da list. I think the majority of the people
> like it
> > just fine. Everyone
> > >knows how to use the delete button. There are
> times
> > when I don't have the
> > time
> > >to read all posts, but will sift through the
> ones
> > that are sailing related.
> > >
> > >Rummy
> > >
> > >
> > >In a message dated 7/22/2008 4:58:17 P.M. Eastern
> > Daylight Time,
> > >jlock at relevantarts.com writes:
> > >
> > >At 04:25 PM 7/22/2008 -0400, Michael D. Weisner
> > wrote:
> > >>I wonder if we can try to solve the problem
> a bit
> > differently than
> > chasing
> > >>otherwise good folks off the list. Maybe
> John
> > can set up a third
> > >>distribution mode in addition to
> > "Non-digested" and "Digested",
> > something
> > >>called "Sailing limited" which
> would
> > only receive items of sailing
> > interest.
> > >>Maybe we could use a prefixed subject line
> > modifier such as "Sailing:" to
> > >>direct these posts to the limited list as
> well as
> > the general list.
> > >>Forgetting to add the subject line modifier
> will
> > only affect those who do
> > >>not wish to be on "da list", not
> the
> > rest of us. John, is such a thing
> > >>doable?
> > >
> > >Doable, but probably not practical. Besides
> the
> > programing involved,
> > >it depends on the poster remembering to place the
>
> > magic word in the
> > >subject line. We all know how well THAT works!
> > >
> > >Seriously... before we can discuss making any
> changes,
> > we need more
> > >information. Right now we have no sense of what
> the
> > majority
> > >wants. We've heard from the usual suspects
> on
> > what they want, but
> > >there are 268 list members; most of whom have
> not
> > stated a preference.
> > >
> > >We might assume that everything is hunky-dory,
> since
> > we don't have
> > >268 complaints. But that may be because no good
>
> > alternatives have
> > >been proposed.
> > >
> > >I'd like to suggest a simple poll. I can
> whip
> > one up in a few
> > >minutes and post the URL to the list.
> We'll run
> > it for a couple
> > >weeks and see what kind of stats come out.
> Might be
> > interesting to
> > >have some facts to kick around... yes?
> > >
> > >Cheers!
> > >
> > >John Lock
> > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
> > >Lake Sinclair, GA
> > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
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> > mailing list go to
> > >http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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>
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