[Rhodes22-list] Rain or trickle down economics?

[Brad Haslett]

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 10:13 AM, John Shulick <jsbudda at verizon.net> wrote:

>
> Good morning Brad,
>
> Just a few questions and a comment:
>
> Was the construction worker a union man?


That was my dad.  He was both, same as me.  He worked out of the labor hall
for much of his career and was a supervisor over union help the last 10
years or so.  Louis Haslett treated everyone with respect so it wasn't a
seismic shift for him to move from one role to the other.

>
>
> Do you think he could find the same job today? (at a wage adjusted for the
> inflation that has occurred between his time of employment and the present)


People like my father are always in demand and well compensated.

>
>
> Can workers in China opt to join a union or engage in collective
> bargaining?


Labor costs are rising in China and  collective bargaining  is in its infant
stage.  The  union  I belong to and support  wasn't born overnight.

>
>
> Can a Chinese factory worker negotiate His/Her compensation on an
> individual
> basis with management?


Can an American worker under a collective bargaining agreement negotiate an
individual contract?  What part of collective bargaining don't you
understand?  Now, if you're management - no holds barred (ask my
sister-in-law)

>
>
> What does your wife think about the Chinese positions regarding Tibet,
> Taiwan, and the treatment of christian missionaries living in China? (my
> wife has a childhood friend who  now lives in china and fears for her life)


One of our frequent dinner guests is a minister who is married to a Chinese
minority (not  from  Tibet).  Why don't  you come to dinner at our house and
present your case.  Do your homework in advance, all sides of the argument
are present.  If your wife's childhood friend fears for her life, get the
hell out.  I can help you with that.

>
>
> Comment: Both Capitalism and Marxism are NOT forms of government but rather
> economic models that a government may or may not espouse. The old Soviet
> Union and China had totalitarian forms of
> government that embraced Marxism as their economic philosophy. Today these
> governments are still totalitarian regardless of the economic model they
> embrace.


You are correct on the semantics. The totalitarian governments of China and
the states of the former Soviet Union have mostly abandoned Marxist economic
models for capitalism because one model is a dismal failure and the other
one works.

>
>
> I will be out of town next week as my brother in laws' wife's parents are
> coming in from Japan to visit and my wife and I are transporting my brother
> in laws' parents to N.J. for them to meet. Therefore it may be a while
> before I'm back in touch. I do apologize for any unintentional insult, that
> was NOT the purpose of my comments nor will it ever be. The purpose of
> lively debate is to exchange ideas and opinions and not trade insults. That
> accomplishes nothing.


No insult taken.  My wife always has the last laugh!

>
>
> Have a beer for me over the weekend (preferably one made locally)
> John Shulick
>
>
> Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
> >
> > John,
> >
> > Wouldn't want to rain on your pity party with a boring story about some
> > construction worker with an eighth grade education who's kids all did
> > pretty
> > well for themselves through hard work, including one who paid for his own
> > flying lessons and college education.
> >
> > The irony of your assessment is that the countries you mention,
> especially
> > the Soviet Union and China, have abandoned the very form of government
> you
> > advocate in favor of capitalism because it has raised the standard of
> > living
> > of its citizens. Been to a factory in China lately?  The workers there
> > might
> > take offense to being called slaves.
> >
> > As to the rest of  your "history lesson", I'll ask my "chink" wife (your
> > term) and see if it agrees with her experience.
> >
> > Brad
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 3:49 PM, John Shulick <jsbudda at verizon.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Brad,
> >>
> >>     I like beer too !
> >>
> >> As for the rest
> >>
> >>
> >> Neither of these guys are the 'sharpest knives in the drawer'.  If
> McCain
> >> had a clue he would have explained to his torturers, "look guys, life
> for
> >> your friends the Chinese really sucks right now.  They've shut down all
> >> the
> >> universities and smart kids your age are out in rice paddies picking
> >> leeches
> >> off their legs.  Eventually the Chinese will quit this silly nonsense
> and
> >> start building toasters for WalMart and you guys will be stuck making
> >> underwear.  In the meantime, Uncle Ho and his buddies will kill 3
> million
> >> of
> >> your countrymen and another million will head to sea and eventually in
> up
> >> in
> >> the US and buy of hotels and convenience stores and stuff. I apologize
> >> for
> >> President Truman ignoring Uncle Ho's request for assistance back in the
> >> late
> >> 40's, but the French needed their asses pulled out of the fire again (I
> >> know, you'd think saving them from the Nazi's would have been enough but
> >> then we had to save them from the Communists). Why don't you guys put
> >> down
> >> the sticks and let me explain a little capitalism and econ101 to you".
> >>
> >> Unless my knowledge is faulty I believe the backer of the North
> >> Vietnamese
> >> was the old Soviet Union and not the Chinese who were busy carrying out
> >> there "cultural revolution" of Mao and trying to produce iron in
> peasants
> >> backyards. We ignored Ho's requests because french plantation owners'
> >> didn't
> >> want to lose access to their slave labor force and we were backing
> >> DeGaulle
> >> and any petty thug or warlord that promised to fight the Red Menace
> >> (remember the Shaw of Iran and his secret police). After we left China
> >> and
> >> Nam fought a conventional boarder war around 1980 (not totally sure of
> >> the
> >> date sorry) which Nam won or now it would be a Chinese provence.
> >>
> >> That assumes of course that McCain understands economics himself which
> by
> >> his own admission, isn't his strong suit. That said, I'll take someone
> >> with
> >> a weak foundation in capitalism over someone who understands Marxist
> >> theory
> >> all too well.
> >>
> >> I am terrified with the thought of a POTUS with a weak foundation of
> >> capitalism. The U.S. had pretty much unrestrained capitalism from its
> >> formation to 1932 and what was the result? 60 hr work weeks,
> >> sweatshops, sharecropping, child labor, no safety standards, the company
> >> store. Unrestrained capitalism is why I now have federal mine subsidence
> >> insurance the superfund to clean up toxic waste dumps and its my money
> >> that
> >> is paying for this while the offspring of the Slimeballs who did this
> >> live
> >> in the Hamptons and vacation in the Bahamas.  I never met either of my
> >> grandfathers. both died in their 40s' form overwork in the mills that
> >> made
> >> the money to build Carnegie Hall. But I did see the medallion that one
> of
> >> them left behind that was given to him for 30 years of service, stamped
> >> out
> >> of stainless steel they were to cheap to use silver. My grandmother told
> >> me
> >> when she was young she remembers company goons kicking the door in on
> >> random
> >> searches the company carried out to make sure no employees were
> stealing.
> >> 4
> >> generations of people in the Pgh. area busted their butts and fought in
> 2
> >> world wars to create the capital that then turned its back to the city
> >> and
> >> found fresh slaves in Mexico and China. I'll take my chance on the
> >> Obamination as you would call him because I've seen the results of
> >> capitalism and unless you happen to be fortunate enough to be born into
> >> the
> >> upper classes you're pretty much screwed. Please don't bother to reply
> >> with
> >> any rags to riches bullshit stories, for every one cited  I could recite
> >> 1000 others who worked just as hard and got nowhere for their efforts.
> >> There
> >> was a man named Hall who worked for Westinghouse in the late 50's or
> >> early
> >> 60's who invented the process for making artificial diamonds, for his
> >> discovery the company in is overwhelming gratitude awarded him a $25
> >> savings
> >> bond. Wonder how much they made on that since then?
> >>
> >> But I do like beer especially Pa. beer (I buy local and don't shop at
> >> Chink-mart either)
> >>
> >> Keep em coming
> >> John Shulick
> >>
> >>         "Resistance is futile you will be assimilated" The Borg.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> View this message in context:
> >>
> http://www.nabble.com/The-Post-Turtle-%28Humor-Political%29-tp17936590p17991499.html
> >> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>
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>
> --
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> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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