[Rhodes22-list] Mo Gubmint - Politics & Education

[elle]

Brad, I have to agree with much of what you've
said...however, as much as I and many teachers would
have loved to see a Marine Lieutenant come in & get
order, most parents would not stand for that kind of
discipline. 

See

http://www.nbc12.com/news/state/16389406.html


Discipline is for someone else's kids...not
theirs....and yes...if the powers that be would let
the teachers teach...all would be good...


elle

--- Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:

> Slim,
> 
> Let's start with your last point first.  Having a
> pocket full of tickets
> means nothing to me, as a pilot or as a teacher. 
> All it means is on a given
> day for a brief time you met the minimum
> requirements. Whether you can
> repeat that performance on a routine basis is
> another question.  I think
> most good teachers have a "knack" that can be
> improved through training, but
> having a teachers certificate by itself means
> nothing.  When I was actively
> teaching new students, I quit asking about their
> backgrounds, ratings,
> education, experience, etc., you could see soon
> enough where they were in
> the program and what medicine they needed.  There's
> a big difference between
> "filling squares" and actual learning (and natural
> ability).
> 
> As I said, home schooling isn't my thing.  However,
> I have a problem with
> the education monopoly and don't blame people who
> live in failing school
> districts who want to move their kids elsewhere. The
> public school that Cora
> attends is excellent and will probably remain that
> way if the City of
> Memphis keeps their hands off of it.  If they do get
> control of it, we'll
> jerk her in a heartbeat.  If I were the Supt. of
> Schools, I'd put a Marine
> Lieutenant in charge as principal of every school
> and by the end of the year
> we'd see real results.  My sympathies go out to
> every public school teacher
> for what they are tasked with.  One of the reasons
> you get so much "bang for
> the education buck" in the private schools is
> because teachers are there to
> teach, period. Looking at this from a business
> viewpoint, it is a simple
> case of "too many Chiefs and too few Indians".  Cut
> the administration
> budget by two thirds, redistribute it amongst the
> "worker bees", and be
> damned selective about who you hire.  If they have a
> teacher certificate,
> fine.  If they don't - who cares as long as they can
> teach.
> 
> Brad
> 
> On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 4:59 PM, Steven Alm
> <stevenalm at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Brad,
> >
> > Sorry, I didn't mean to be vague, just brief. 
> What I'm getting at is that
> > in a perfect world, all parents are wonderful and
> would make great home
> > school teachers for their perfect children. 
> But........  Or maybe they
> > don't care about whatever--music, sports, all that
> peripheral stuff--and
> > only care that their precious little ones don't
> hear anything about that
> > godless thing we call evolution or sex education
> or a myriad of unsavory
> > topics called the real world.  If their goal is
> protectionism rather than
> > a
> > complete, rounded education, they should be
> allowed to sheild their kids
> > from the evils of the outside world.
> >
> > That said, I've met several home schooled
> individuals who were articulate,
> > confident and looked you straight in the eye when
> speaking to you with
> > endless curiosity about the world and with
> promising futures.  Two in
> > particular are my twin niece and nephew.  She was
> operating way above her
> > grade level and was getting bored in school
> because it wasn't a challenge
> > for her.  The boy was operating below his grade
> level and was frustrated
> > and
> > started developing behavioral problems.  So they
> were both pulled out of
> > school and taught at home for several years and
> eventually rejoined their
> > classmates in public school for their graduation. 
> One parent a PhD and
> > the
> > other a neurosurgeon, their education was solid to
> say the least.  I'm
> > afraid this is the exception however.
> >
> > As for certification, less than qualified teachers
> will produce less than
> > qualified students. The question is whether you
> can be qualified without
> > being certified.  Perhaps.  Why should a pilot
> need a licence?  Shouldn't
> > it
> > be OK to let a person fly a jet without all that
> bull shit instruction?
> > After all, it's as simple as following the
> checklist, right?  Isn't that
> > just too much gubment getting in your way?  When I
> was going through my
> > certification there were a few times when I
> thought it was just busy work
> > but most of it was valuable to me.  I couldn't
> have gotten through the
> > first
> > week of teaching without it.
> >
> > I wish Elle would chime in.  After 33 years in the
> biz I know she has some
> > insight.  C'mon girl!
> >
> > Slim
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Brad Haslett
> <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Slim,
> > >
> > > I'm guessing as to what you really mean.  But,
> let me address the "what
> > is
> > > important to me" question first.  The issue at
> hand in California is who
> > > "owns" the children.  Most (and that includes
> me) feel that the parents
> > > "own" the RESPONSIBILITY for their children and
> that includes the right
> > to
> > > oversee their education.  Both of my boys went
> to private schools where
> > > the
> > > teachers didn't have 'teaching credentials' but
> they knew their subject
> > > matter and knew how to teach.  If they didn't, I
> had two choices, pull
> > > them
> > > out or bitch.  I did neither because 1 - they
> had incredible
> > instructors,
> > > and 2 - the school would have told me to "go
> pound sand" if I bitched.
> > >  The
> > > concept of everyone having access to a public
> education is a wonderful
> > > thing
> > > and I support it.  The disconnect is that many
> people feel they have no
> > > control over the process and they opt out.  That
> choice should be
> > > protected.
> > >
> > > Just so you don't misunderstand my point, let me
> state it clearly.  Some
> > > folks are naturally gifted teachers and some
> folks know a given area of
> > > science or art very well.  When you find an
> individual that can combine
> > > their knowledge of a given subject and have a
> natural ability to teach,
> > > it's
> > > a wonderful thing.  Having a 'credential' means
> you have the patience to
> > > listen to X hours of bullshit theory and nothing
> else!
> > >
> > > BTW, I take as much pride in teaching my art and
> science as I do
> > > practicing
> > > it - $100 says you do too.
> > >
> > > Brad
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 1:23 AM, Steven Alm
> <stevenalm at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >  "I just don't get it!  What is so
> > > > special about a teaching credential?"
> > > >
> > > > Well, for one thing, there is only one in a
> million moms out there
> > that
> > > > could even begin to teach five little girls to
> sing the National
> > Anthem
> > > in
> > > > part harmony like we just heard.
> > > > It's all about what's important to you.
> > > >
> > > > Slim
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 9:45 PM, Just bent
> <j.bulfer at jbtek.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >  I just don't get it!  What is so
> > > > > special about a teaching credential?
> > > > >
> > > > > Brad,
> > > > > carefull, you'll have the wrath of the
> teachers union come down on
> > > you.
> > > > > For every student that is home school, the
> district loses money.
> > > > > My guess is it's a lobbiest for the public
> school system who is
> > > pushing
> > > > > this.
> > > > > remember, follow the money and you will find
> the reason.
> > > > > Jb
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Home schooling is not my thing but a good
> number of my co-workers
> > > home
> > > > > > school.  Some do it for religious reasons
> but most do it because
> > > > they're
> > > > > > fed
> > > > > > up with the public school monopoly and
> don't want to spend
> > $10,000+
> > > > per
> > > > > > child for private schools.  Most of their
> kids have performed well
> > > on
> > > > > > standardized tests and get into good
> colleges. That won't be a
> > > choice
> > > > if
> > > > > > California gets their way.  What is it
> that makes people want a
> > > > > government
> > > > > > that controls every aspect of their lives?
>  I just don't get it!
> > >  What
> > > > > is
> > > > > > so
> > > > > > special about a teaching credential?  Most
> education textbooks are
> > > > pure
> > > > > > BS.
> > > > > > Note that the LA Times goes heavy into the
> religion aspect.
> >  That's
> > > > not
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > primary issue with most of the people I
> know who home school.
> >  Brad
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ruling seen as a threat to many
> home-schooling families State
> > > > appellate
> > > > > > court says those who teach children in
> private must have a
> > > credential.
> > > > > > By Seema Mehta and Mitchell Landsberg
> > > > > > Los Angeles Times Staff Writers
> > > > > >
> > > > > > March 6, 2008
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Parents who lack teaching credentials
> cannot educate their
> > children
> > > at
> > > > > > home,
> > > > > > according to a state appellate court
> ruling that is sending waves
> > of
> > > > > fear
> > > > > > through California's home schooling
> families.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Advocates for the families vowed to appeal
> the decision to the
> > state
> > > > > > Supreme
> > > > > > Court. Enforcement until then appears
> unlikely, but if the ruling
> > > > > stands,
> > > > > > home-schooling supporters say California
> will have the most
> > > regressive
> > > > > law
> > > > > > in the nation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "This decision is a direct hit against
> every home schooler in
> > > > > California,"
> > > > > > said Brad Dacus, president of the Pacific
> Justice Institute, which
> > > > > > represents the Sunland Christian School,
> which specializes in
> > > > religious
> > > > > > home
> > > > > > schooling. "If the state Supreme Court
> does not reverse this . . .
> > > > there
> > > > > > will be nothing to prevent home-school
> witch hunts from being
> > > > > implemented
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > every corner of the state of California."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The institute estimates there are as many
> as 166,000 California
> > > > students
> > > > > > who
> > > > > > are home schooled. State Department of
> Education officials say
> > there
> > > > is
> > > > > no
> > > > > > way to know the true number.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Unlike at least 30 other states, home
> schooling is not
> > specifically
> > > > > > addressed in California law. Under the
> state education code,
> > > students
> > > > > must
> > > > > > be enrolled in a public or private school,
> or can be taught at
> > home
> > > by
> > > > a
> > > > > > credentialed tutor.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The California Department of Education
> currently allows home
> > > schooling
> > > > > as
> > > > > > long as parents file paperwork with the
> state establishing
> > > themselves
> > > > as
> > > > > > small private schools, hire credentialed
> tutors or enroll their
> > > > children
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > independent study programs run by charter
> or private schools or
> > > public
> > > > > > school districts while still teaching at
> home.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > California does little to enforce those
> provisions and insists it
> > is
> > > > the
> > > > > > local school districts' responsibility. In
> addition, state
> > education
> > > > > > officials say some parents home school
> their children without the
> > > > > > knowledge
> > > > > > of any entity.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Home schoolers and government officials
> have largely accepted this
> > > > murky
> > > > > > arrangement.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "This works so well, I don't see any
> reason to change it," said J.
> > > > > Michael
> > > > > > Smith, president of the Virginia-based
> Home School Legal Defense
> > > Assn.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The appellate court ruling stems from a
> case involving Lynwood
> > > parents
> > > > > > Phillip and Mary Long, who were repeatedly
> referred to the Los
> > > Angeles
> > > > > > County Department of Children and Family
> Services over various
> > > > > > allegations,
> > > > > > including claims of physical abuse,
> involving some of their eight
> > > > > > children.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All of the children are currently or had
> been enrolled in Sunland
> > > > > > Christian
> > > > > > School, where they would occasionally take
> tests, but were
> > educated
> > > in
> > > > > > their
> > > > > > home by their mother, Phillip Long said.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A lawyer appointed to represent two of the
> Long's young children
> > > > > requested
> > > > > > that the court require them to physically
> attend a public or
> > private
> > > > > > school
> > > > > > where adults could monitor their
> well-being. A trial court
> > > disagreed,
> > > > > but
> > > > > > the children's lawyer appealed to the 2nd
> District Court of
> > Appeal,
> > > > > which
> > > > > > has jurisdiction over Los Angeles,
> Ventura, Santa Barbara and San
> > > Luis
> > > > > > Obispo counties.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The appellate panel ruled that Sunland
> officials' occasional
> > > > monitoring
> > > > > of
> > > > > > the Longs' home schooling -- with the
> children taking some tests
> > at
> > > > the
> > > > > > school -- is insufficient to qualify as
> being enrolled in a
> > private
> > > > > > school.
> > > > > > Since Mary Long does not have a teaching
> credential, the family is
> > > > > > violating
> > > > > > state laws, the ruling said.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Parents do not have a constitutional
> right to home school their
> > > > > > children,"
> > > > > > wrote Justice H. Walter Croskey in a Feb.
> 28 opinion signed by the
> > > two
> > > > > > other
> > > > > > members of the district court. "Parents
> who fail to [comply with
> > > > school
> > > > > > enrollment laws] may be subject to a
> criminal complaint against
> > > them,
> > > > > > found
> > > > > > guilty of an infraction, and subject to
> imposition of fines or an
> > > > order
> > > > > to
> > > > > > complete a parent education and counseling
> program."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Phillip Long said he believes the ruling
> stems from hostility
> > > against
> > > > > > Christians and vowed to appeal to the
> state Supreme Court.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "I have sincerely held religious beliefs,"
> he said. "Public
> > schools
> > > > > > conflict
> > > > > > with that. I have to go with what my
> conscience requires me."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Public schools teach such topics as
> evolution, which Long said he
> > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > believe in. He said his wife spends six
> hours each day teaching
> > > their
> > > > > > children reading, writing, math, science,
> health, physical
> > > education,
> > > > > > Bible
> > > > > > and social studies. Court papers say Mary
> Long's education ended
> > at
> > > > 11th
> > > > > > grade.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It's unclear if the ruling will be
> enforced, given the likely
> > > appeals.
> > > > > > Typically, these rulings take effect 30
> days after they are
> > issued.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Other organizations that plan to get
> involved include the Pacific
> > > > > Justice
> > > > > > Institute, Home School Legal Defense Assn.
> and the Home School
> > Assn.
> > > > of
> > > > > > California.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Meanwhile, state Department of Education's
> attorneys are reviewing
> > > the
> > > > > > ruling.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Teachers union officials will also be
> closely monitoring the
> > appeal.
> > > > A.J
> > > > > .
> > > > > > Duffy, president of United Teachers Los
> Angeles, said he agrees
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > ruling.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "What's best for a child is to be taught
> by a credentialed
> > teacher,"
> > > > he
> > > > > > said.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While many educators and officials
> remained unfamiliar with the
> > > ruling
> > > > > > Tuesday, news about it has been sweeping
> websites and blogs
> > devoted
> > > to
> > > > > > home
> > > > > > schooling. Organizations have been getting
> tense phone calls from
> > > > > parents
> > > > > > worried that they will be targeted.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Families who home school includethose
> whose religious beliefs
> > > conflict
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > public schools and those whose children
> are in the entertainment
> > > > > industry
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > have other time-consuming activities that
> require them to study at
> > > an
> > > > > > individualized pace.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Glenn and Kathleen, a Sacramento-area
> couple who requested that
> > > their
> > > > > last
> > > > > > name not be used for fear of prosecution,
> home school their
> > > 9-year-old
> > > > > son
> > > > > > Hunter because their Christian beliefs
> would be contradicted in a
> > > > public
> > > > > > school setting, Glenn said. He is troubled
> by the idea that his
> > son
> > > > > would
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > exposed to teachings about evolution,
> homosexuality, same-sex
> > > marriage
> > > > > and
> > > > > > sex education .
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "I want to have control over what goes in
> my son's head, not
> > what's
> > > > put
> > > > > in
> > > > > > there by people who might be on the far
> left who have their own
> > > ideas
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > indoctrinating kids," he said.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the ruling takes effect, Glenn vowed to
> move his family out of
> > > > state.
> > > > > > "If
> > > > > > I can't home school my son in California,
> we're going to have to
> > end
> > > > up
> > > > > > leaving California. That's how important
> it is to me."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > seema.mehta at latimes.com
> > > > > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > View this message in context:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.nabble.com/Mo-Gubmint---Politics---Education-tp15887644p15888952.html
> > > > > Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive
> at Nabble.com.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> __________________________________________________
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We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.

 1992 Rhodes 22   Recyc '06  "WaterMusic"   (Lady in Red)


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