[Rhodes22-list] Mo Gubmint - Politics & Education
elle
watermusic38 at yahoo.com
Fri Mar 7 22:21:14 EST 2008
Herb,
I also cannot disagree with much of what you have
said...but remember these types of people are present
in all professions..not jsut teaching...(BTW...did you
ever go to school? Someone taught you something..;^))
But I MUST strongly disagree with this:
>and waiting for retirement is easier than starting
over in something else.
You have GOT to be JOKING.. Sticking your fingers one
at a time into a meat grinder & making sausage would
be an easier & less stressful way of filling your days
than in 'waiting for retirement.'
I wish I could say that in all those years I was ever
'waiting' for anything...I could never slow down long
enuf for it to catch up with me....(and many many of
my colleagues.). (although I wouldn't give you a
tinker's dam for some of the newer teachers comng into
the HS...)
elle
--- Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> In a perfect world, all teachers would be qualified,
> interested in
> teaching their students, with the needs of the
> children in their charge
> placed on the highest priority. Instead, we have the
> real world, where a
> few (very few) teachers are exactly like that.
> Others insert their
> personal opinions and teach them as "fact". Some are
> there because they
> couldn't decide on a major in college, and education
> was an easy route.
> Some are there because they aspire to become
> administrators, and
> teaching our children is simply part of the "dues
> you have to pay" to
> get there. Some are even there because being a
> "teacher" gives them
> prime fodder for the deviant sexual desires. Most
> though, I believe, are
> there because they've gotten tenure, and waiting for
> retirement is
> easier than starting over in something else.
>
> I'm afraid that your impression of "home schooled"
> children is probably
> skewed. Or maybe it's mine that's skewed. I do have
> to admit my
> experience has only been in Texas, Oklahoma,
> Louisiana, Arkansas, and
> Alaska. Very few parents that home school for any
> length of time go it
> alone. They join organizations, formal and informal,
> that provide them
> with lesson plans, teaching materials, etc. Some
> even hook them up with
> the local public systems, or other private systems,
> to do the group
> stuff - music, sports, all that peripheral stuff.
>
> And, though I doubt your skewd cynical outlook would
> allow for this,
> many of those that worry about "godless" things in
> the public school
> system may have very good reasons for the view,
> "real world" or not.
>
>
> Steven Alm wrote:
> > Brad,
> >
> > Sorry, I didn't mean to be vague, just brief.
> What I'm getting at is that
> > in a perfect world, all parents are wonderful and
> would make great home
> > school teachers for their perfect children.
> But........ Or maybe they
> > don't care about whatever--music, sports, all that
> peripheral stuff--and
> > only care that their precious little ones don't
> hear anything about that
> > godless thing we call evolution or sex education
> or a myriad of unsavory
> > topics called the real world. If their goal is
> protectionism rather than a
> > complete, rounded education, they should be
> allowed to sheild their kids
> > from the evils of the outside world.
> >
> > That said, I've met several home schooled
> individuals who were articulate,
> > confident and looked you straight in the eye when
> speaking to you with
> > endless curiosity about the world and with
> promising futures. Two in
> > particular are my twin niece and nephew. She was
> operating way above her
> > grade level and was getting bored in school
> because it wasn't a challenge
> > for her. The boy was operating below his grade
> level and was frustrated and
> > started developing behavioral problems. So they
> were both pulled out of
> > school and taught at home for several years and
> eventually rejoined their
> > classmates in public school for their graduation.
> One parent a PhD and the
> > other a neurosurgeon, their education was solid to
> say the least. I'm
> > afraid this is the exception however.
> >
> > As for certification, less than qualified teachers
> will produce less than
> > qualified students. The question is whether you
> can be qualified without
> > being certified. Perhaps. Why should a pilot
> need a licence? Shouldn't it
> > be OK to let a person fly a jet without all that
> bull shit instruction?
> > After all, it's as simple as following the
> checklist, right? Isn't that
> > just too much gubment getting in your way? When I
> was going through my
> > certification there were a few times when I
> thought it was just busy work
> > but most of it was valuable to me. I couldn't
> have gotten through the first
> > week of teaching without it.
> >
> > I wish Elle would chime in. After 33 years in the
> biz I know she has some
> > insight. C'mon girl!
> >
> > Slim
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Brad Haslett
> <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Slim,
> >>
> >> I'm guessing as to what you really mean. But,
> let me address the "what is
> >> important to me" question first. The issue at
> hand in California is who
> >> "owns" the children. Most (and that includes me)
> feel that the parents
> >> "own" the RESPONSIBILITY for their children and
> that includes the right to
> >> oversee their education. Both of my boys went to
> private schools where
> >> the
> >> teachers didn't have 'teaching credentials' but
> they knew their subject
> >> matter and knew how to teach. If they didn't, I
> had two choices, pull
> >> them
> >> out or bitch. I did neither because 1 - they had
> incredible instructors,
> >> and 2 - the school would have told me to "go
> pound sand" if I bitched.
> >> The
> >> concept of everyone having access to a public
> education is a wonderful
> >> thing
> >> and I support it. The disconnect is that many
> people feel they have no
> >> control over the process and they opt out. That
> choice should be
> >> protected.
> >>
> >> Just so you don't misunderstand my point, let me
> state it clearly. Some
> >> folks are naturally gifted teachers and some
> folks know a given area of
> >> science or art very well. When you find an
> individual that can combine
> >> their knowledge of a given subject and have a
> natural ability to teach,
> >> it's
> >> a wonderful thing. Having a 'credential' means
> you have the patience to
> >> listen to X hours of bullshit theory and nothing
> else!
> >>
> >> BTW, I take as much pride in teaching my art and
> science as I do
> >> practicing
> >> it - $100 says you do too.
> >>
> >> Brad
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 1:23 AM, Steven Alm
> <stevenalm at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> "I just don't get it! What is so
> >>> special about a teaching credential?"
> >>>
> >>> Well, for one thing, there is only one in a
> million moms out there that
> >>> could even begin to teach five little girls to
> sing the National Anthem
> >>>
> >> in
> >>
> >>> part harmony like we just heard.
> >>> It's all about what's important to you.
> >>>
> >>> Slim
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 9:45 PM, Just bent
> <j.bulfer at jbtek.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> I just don't get it! What is so
> >>>> special about a teaching credential?
> >>>>
> >>>> Brad,
> >>>> carefull, you'll have the wrath of the teachers
> union come down on
> >>>>
> >> you.
> >>
> >>>> For every student that is home school, the
> district loses money.
> >>>> My guess is it's a lobbiest for the public
> school system who is
> >>>>
> >> pushing
> >>
> >>>> this.
> >>>> remember, follow the money and you will find
> the reason.
> >>>> Jb
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Home schooling is not my thing but a good
> number of my co-workers
> >>>>>
> >> home
> >>
> >>>>> school. Some do it for religious reasons but
> most do it because
> >>>>>
> >>> they're
> >>>
> >>>>> fed
> >>>>> up with the public school monopoly and don't
> want to spend $10,000+
> >>>>>
> >>> per
> >>>
> >>>>> child for private schools. Most of their kids
> have performed well
> >>>>>
> >> on
> >>
> >>>>> standardized tests and get into good colleges.
> That won't be a
> >>>>>
> >> choice
> >>
> >>> if
> >>>
> >>>>> California gets their way. What is it that
> makes people want a
> >>>>>
> >>>> government
> >>>>
> >>>>> that controls every aspect of their lives? I
> just don't get it!
> >>>>>
> >> What
> >>
> >>>> is
> >>>>
> >>>>> so
> >>>>> special about a teaching credential? Most
> education textbooks are
> >>>>>
> >>> pure
> >>>
> >>>>> BS.
> >>>>> Note that the LA Times goes heavy into the
> religion aspect. That's
> >>>>>
> >>> not
> >>>
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> primary issue with most of the people I know
> who home school. Brad
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---------------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ruling seen as a threat to many home-schooling
> families State
> >>>>>
> >>> appellate
> >>>
> >>>>> court says those who teach children in private
> must have a
> >>>>>
> >> credential.
> >>
> >>>>> By Seema Mehta and Mitchell Landsberg
> >>>>> Los Angeles Times Staff Writers
> >>>>>
> >>>>> March 6, 2008
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Parents who lack teaching credentials cannot
> educate their children
> >>>>>
> >> at
> >>
> >>>>> home,
> >>>>> according to a state appellate court ruling
> that is sending waves of
> >>>>>
> >>>> fear
> >>>>
> >>>>> through California's home schooling families.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Advocates for the families vowed to appeal the
> decision to the state
> >>>>> Supreme
> >>>>> Court. Enforcement until then appears
> unlikely, but if the ruling
> >>>>>
> >>>> stands,
> >>>>
> >>>>> home-schooling supporters say California will
> have the most
> >>>>>
> >> regressive
> >>
> >>>> law
> >>>>
> >>>>> in the nation.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "This decision is a direct hit against every
> home schooler in
> >>>>>
> >>>> California,"
> >>>>
> >>>>> said Brad Dacus, president of the Pacific
> Justice Institute, which
> >>>>> represents the Sunland Christian School, which
> specializes in
> >>>>>
> >>> religious
> >>>
> >>>>> home
> >>>>> schooling. "If the state Supreme Court does
> not reverse this . . .
> >>>>>
> >>> there
> >>>
> >>>>> will be nothing to prevent home-school witch
> hunts from being
> >>>>>
> >>>> implemented
> >>>>
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> every corner of the state of California."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The institute estimates there are as many as
> 166,000 California
> >>>>>
> >>> students
> >>>
> >>>>> who
> >>>>> are home schooled. State Department of
> Education officials say there
> >>>>>
> >>> is
> >>>
> >>>> no
> >>>>
> >>>>> way to know the true number.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Unlike at least 30 other states, home
> schooling is not specifically
> >>>>> addressed in California law. Under the state
> education code,
> >>>>>
> >> students
> >>
> >>>> must
> >>>>
> >>>>> be enrolled in a public or private school, or
> can be taught at home
> >>>>>
> >> by
> >>
> >>> a
> >>>
> >>>>> credentialed tutor.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The California Department of Education
> currently allows home
> >>>>>
> >> schooling
> >>
> >>>> as
> >>>>
> >>>>> long as parents file paperwork with the state
> establishing
> >>>>>
> >> themselves
> >>
> >>> as
> >>>
> >>>>> small private schools, hire credentialed
> tutors or enroll their
> >>>>>
> >>> children
> >>>
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> independent study programs run by charter or
> private schools or
> >>>>>
> >> public
> >>
> >>>>> school districts while still teaching at home.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> California does little to enforce those
> provisions and insists it is
> >>>>>
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>>> local school districts' responsibility. In
> addition, state education
> >>>>> officials say some parents home school their
> children without the
> >>>>> knowledge
> >>>>> of any entity.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Home schoolers and government officials have
> largely accepted this
> >>>>>
> >>> murky
> >>>
> >>>>> arrangement.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "This works so well, I don't see any reason to
> change it," said J.
> >>>>>
> >>>> Michael
> >>>>
> >>>>> Smith, president of the Virginia-based Home
> School Legal Defense
> >>>>>
> >> Assn.
> >>
> >>>>> The appellate court ruling stems from a case
> involving Lynwood
> >>>>>
> >> parents
> >>
> >>>>> Phillip and Mary Long, who were repeatedly
> referred to the Los
> >>>>>
> >> Angeles
> >>
> >>>>> County Department of Children and Family
> Services over various
> >>>>> allegations,
> >>>>> including claims of physical abuse, involving
> some of their eight
> >>>>> children.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> All of the children are currently or had been
> enrolled in Sunland
> >>>>> Christian
> >>>>> School, where they would occasionally take
> tests, but were educated
> >>>>>
> >> in
> >>
> >>>>> their
> >>>>> home by their mother, Phillip Long said.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A lawyer appointed to represent two of the
> Long's young children
> >>>>>
> >>>> requested
> >>>>
> >>>>> that the court require them to physically
> attend a public or private
> >>>>> school
> >>>>> where adults could monitor their well-being. A
> trial court
> >>>>>
> >> disagreed,
> >>
> >>>> but
> >>>>
> >>>>> the children's lawyer appealed to the 2nd
> District Court of Appeal,
> >>>>>
> >>>> which
> >>>>
> >>>>> has jurisdiction over Los Angeles, Ventura,
> Santa Barbara and San
> >>>>>
> >> Luis
> >>
> >>>>> Obispo counties.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The appellate panel ruled that Sunland
> officials' occasional
> >>>>>
> >>> monitoring
> >>>
> >>>> of
> >>>>
> >>>>> the Longs' home schooling -- with the children
> taking some tests at
> >>>>>
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>>> school -- is insufficient to qualify as being
> enrolled in a private
> >>>>> school.
> >>>>> Since Mary Long does not have a teaching
> credential, the family is
> >>>>> violating
> >>>>> state laws, the ruling said.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Parents do not have a constitutional right to
> home school their
> >>>>> children,"
> >>>>> wrote Justice H. Walter Croskey in a Feb. 28
> opinion signed by the
> >>>>>
> >> two
> >>
> >>>>> other
> >>>>> members of the district court. "Parents who
> fail to [comply with
> >>>>>
> >>> school
> >>>
> >>>>> enrollment laws] may be subject to a criminal
> complaint against
> >>>>>
> >> them,
> >>
> >>>>> found
> >>>>> guilty of an infraction, and subject to
> imposition of fines or an
> >>>>>
> >>> order
> >>>
> >>>> to
> >>>>
> >>>>> complete a parent education and counseling
> program."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Phillip Long said he believes the ruling stems
> from hostility
> >>>>>
> >> against
> >>
> >>>>> Christians and vowed to appeal to the state
> Supreme Court.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "I have sincerely held religious beliefs," he
> said. "Public schools
> >>>>> conflict
> >>>>> with that. I have to go with what my
> conscience requires me."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Public schools teach such topics as evolution,
> which Long said he
> >>>>>
> >>>> doesn't
> >>>>
> >>>>> believe in. He said his wife spends six hours
> each day teaching
> >>>>>
> >> their
> >>
> >>>>> children reading, writing, math, science,
> health, physical
> >>>>>
> >> education,
> >>
> >>>>> Bible
> >>>>> and social studies. Court papers say Mary
> Long's education ended at
> >>>>>
> >>> 11th
> >>>
> >>>>> grade.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It's unclear if the ruling will be enforced,
> given the likely
> >>>>>
> >> appeals.
> >>
> >>>>> Typically, these rulings take effect 30 days
> after they are issued.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Other organizations that plan to get involved
> include the Pacific
> >>>>>
> >>>> Justice
> >>>>
> >>>>> Institute, Home School Legal Defense Assn. and
> the Home School Assn.
> >>>>>
> >>> of
> >>>
> >>>>> California.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Meanwhile, state Department of Education's
> attorneys are reviewing
> >>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>>> ruling.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Teachers union officials will also be closely
> monitoring the appeal.
> >>>>>
> >>> A.J
> >>>
> >>>> .
> >>>>
> >>>>> Duffy, president of United Teachers Los
> Angeles, said he agrees with
> >>>>>
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>>> ruling.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "What's best for a child is to be taught by a
> credentialed teacher,"
> >>>>>
> >>> he
> >>>
> >>>>> said.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> While many educators and officials remained
> unfamiliar with the
> >>>>>
> >> ruling
> >>
> >>>>> Tuesday, news about it has been sweeping
> websites and blogs devoted
> >>>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>>>> home
> >>>>> schooling. Organizations have been getting
> tense phone calls from
> >>>>>
> >>>> parents
> >>>>
> >>>>> worried that they will be targeted.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Families who home school includethose whose
> religious beliefs
> >>>>>
> >> conflict
> >>
> >>>>> with
> >>>>> public schools and those whose children are in
> the entertainment
> >>>>>
> >>>> industry
> >>>>
> >>>>> or
> >>>>> have other time-consuming activities that
> require them to study at
> >>>>>
> >> an
> >>
> >>>>> individualized pace.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Glenn and Kathleen, a Sacramento-area couple
> who requested that
> >>>>>
> >> their
> >>
> >>>> last
> >>>>
> >>>>> name not be used for fear of prosecution, home
> school their
> >>>>>
> >> 9-year-old
> >>
> >>>> son
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hunter because their Christian beliefs would
> be contradicted in a
> >>>>>
> >>> public
> >>>
> >>>>> school setting, Glenn said. He is troubled by
> the idea that his son
> >>>>>
> >>>> would
> >>>>
> >>>>> be
> >>>>> exposed to teachings about evolution,
> homosexuality, same-sex
> >>>>>
> >> marriage
> >>
> >>>> and
> >>>>
> >>>>> sex education .
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "I want to have control over what goes in my
> son's head, not what's
> >>>>>
> >>> put
> >>>
> >>>> in
> >>>>
> >>>>> there by people who might be on the far left
> who have their own
> >>>>>
> >> ideas
> >>
> >>>>> about
> >>>>> indoctrinating kids," he said.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If the ruling takes effect, Glenn vowed to
> move his family out of
> >>>>>
> >>> state.
> >>>
> >>>>> "If
> >>>>> I can't home school my son in California,
> we're going to have to end
> >>>>>
> >>> up
> >>>
> >>>>> leaving California. That's how important it is
> to me."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> seema.mehta at latimes.com
> >>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> View this message in context:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
>
http://www.nabble.com/Mo-Gubmint---Politics---Education-tp15887644p15888952.html
> >>
> >>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> __________________________________________________
> >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
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> >>
> >>
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
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> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Herb Parsons
> S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
> S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado 35
>
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
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>
We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.
1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
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