[Rhodes22-list] Mo Gubmint - Politics & Education..Big Al suckit up

[Robert Skinner]

Herb, on the basis of my own experience, 
I agree with everything you said.

/Robert
-----------------------------------------
Herb Parsons wrote:
> 
> I probably should have said this earlier, but in my "vision" of a
> voucher system, current "public" schools would also receive vouchers for
> their students.
> 
> Also, certain "at risk" categories would receive a high voucher -
> exceptional students that have been mainstreamed or require exceptional
> circumstances at the school.
> 
> I know one of the complaints about providing a voucher system is that
> the kids that, because of disabilities, have a higher "cost factor"
> would not be accepted at the schools. That would help alleviate that.
> 
> As for the private schools (often) attracting teachers that wouldn't
> teach at public schools; I know there's a variety of reasons:
> 
> 1) No requirement for credentials (stop and really think on that one a
> bit - ironic that high-caliber folks go places where they don't require
> credentials)
> 2) Less of a beauracratic  hassle (another irony, the other way. As
> private schools become more successful, the administrative level will
> get more top heavy)
> 3) A desire to teach the way they want to teach (sort of tied to the two
> above, but a little broader - Christians often want to teach in a
> Christian atmosphere, Muslims often want to teach in that atmosphere,
> etc etc)
> 
> One of these days, the education system has got to come face to face
> with the "credential" issue. When we have a seriously broken system full
> of credentialed educators, and well-working systems with
> non-credentialed teachers, there's obviously some room for give.
> 
> In TX, the requirement for credentials is worked around pretty regularly
> (and it's funny, because "the system" that does the workaround is the
> same "system" that creates the problem). They are allowed to use
> non-credentialed teachers on an emergency basis. If a non-credential
> teacher teaches long enough, they can earn their credentials based on
> their teaching experience. Guess what happens?
> 
> Another bit of irony on a personal level. I've got several different
> certifications as a technical instructor. The dean of a local technical
> college attended two classes where I was an instructor. After the second
> class, he asked if I had any experience teaching at the college level. I
> told him only some computer classes at SMU school of engineering that
> were non-credit (for Microsoft and Novell certification). He asked why I
> only taught non-credit, and I told him because I had no teaching
> credentials. He asked me (actually several times over the next 6 months)
> to go back to college, get a degree in ANYTHING, so I could come teach
> at his school.
> 
> Sorry, but it makes me smile that the college adminstrator recognizes
> exactly what he wants, but is required by "the system" to force the
> person to get "qualified" by getting a degree in a non-related field.
> 
> It was a little bit tempting, but only a little bit. I suspect I
> wouldn't have last long with the type of frustrations that such a
> "system" would afford.
> elle wrote:
> > OK, Herb....I'm back...In for a dime...;^)
> >
> > I was computerless for a day but now all's back to
> > whatever passes for normal in my sphere....
> >
> > You make some good points....school systems vary
> > throughout the country that one size can't fit all
> > (Hear this, Geo Bush?)
> >
> > Again..I can't disagree with much of your last
> > post...most kids will rise to whatever level of
> > mediocrity or expectation that we set.
> >
> > As for why the private schools in Tx garner good
> > teachers w/abysmal pay....I'll hazard a guess & say
> > working conditions(?)...respectful kids, good
> > parents...strong admin...just a guess...
> >
> > BTW...what are the public schools like with these
> > students and their resources skimmed off?
> >
> > I still have to believe that the solution is not to
> > 'segregate' kids with vouchers but to use that $ to
> > improve (and therein lies the rub...!) the schools in
> > the district so the resources are concentrated...
> >
> > But the secret to success is people who care...but
> > caring has physical, emotional and personal costs when
> > you are dealing with people...in my experience, in
> > education, it's not "The squeaky wheel..." of "Cream
> > rises to the top..."  It's "The nail that sticks out
> > gets hammered back down."
> >
> > elle
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Ha! As to your last comment, you're in it because
> >> you answered!! Serves
> >> you right. :)
> >>
> >> I don't get away from my home area dealing with kids
> >> much anymore since
> >> mine are all grown, but what I see in TX aren't
> >> people asking for
> >> voucher systems so they can move the schools away;
> >> what I see are people
> >> wanting a voucher system so they can send kids to
> >> schools already in
> >> existence in their areas. Private schools abound
> >> here in TX. The
> >> problems are that they are somewhat expensive, and
> >> the teachers are
> >> REALLY under paid. Funny how they can attrack
> >> quality teachers on low
> >> pay, but they do.
> >>
> >> I don't think poorly performing students would be
> >> left behind. I do
> >> believe that there will be schools that offer to
> >> deal with those
> >> students who were not able to remain in the schools
> >> that demand too
> >> much. Personally, I believe those schools will put
> >> out a poorer quality
> >> of students, but that happens today anyway, so it's
> >> no loss.
> >>
> >> Excellence and mediocrity are both infectious. The
> >> problem is that
> >> mediocrity is so much easier to obtain, it more
> >> easily takes over.
> >> That's what's happened today. If you pull those that
> >> are determined to
> >> fail no matter what away from those that are more
> >> open to a better way,
> >> demand excellence from what's left over, people
> >> would be surprised at
> >> the results.
> >>
> >> Have you read the story of Ken Carter from Riveside,
> >> CA? He was the
> >> subject of the slightly fictionalized Coach Carter.
> >> Basically, he took
> >> a baskeball team of students doing poorly in school,
> >> had them sign
> >> contracts stating they would maintain at least a 2.3
> >> GPA (the district
> >> only required a 2.0), and then enforced it. He
> >> cancelled two games in a
> >> row, forfeiting them, and the players' families were
> >> ready to have him
> >> fired. But the students complied, and in a school
> >> full of kids that
> >> didn't succeed academicly his players DID. His
> >> actions actually raised
> >> the academic performance of the entire school.
> >>
> >> Of course, he's no longer part of the public school
> >> system. I haven't
> >> heard the story of why that is, but I have my
> >> suspicions...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.
> >
> >  1992 Rhodes 22   Recyc '06  "WaterMusic"   (Lady in Red)
> >
> >
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-- 
Robert Skinner  "Squirrel Haven" 
Gorham, Maine         04038-1331
s/v "Little Dipper" & "Edith P."