[Rhodes22-list] for your consideration - credit cards

Robert Skinner robert at squirrelhaven.com
Mon May 19 21:56:59 EDT 2008 

Brad,

I'm glad Fidelity didn't sneak a change by you.

My wife/life partner and I share the job of keeping 
vendors honest.  She has a very discerning eye -- little 
gets past her, and I can be a bit hard to snow, difficult 
as that may be to believe of the easy-going guy you know 
me to be.  So we enjoy a division of labor.  I can be the 
dumbest fox in the woods, and speak a little Pennsylvania 
Dutch, Arcadian French, etc. -- just enough to be a barrier 
to explanations that justify bureaucratic ineptitude.

The credit card people have tried the holiday payment 
posting delay trick on us too, as well as other gimmicks 
to collect fees and interest where none is really due.

But we persevere.  Illegitimi non carborundum.

/Robert

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegitimi_non_carborundum

----------------------------------------------------------
Brad Haslett wrote:
> 
> Update-
> 
> Boss Lady just checked and we're still getting 2%, I'm guessing we're
> grandfathered in at that rate.  I had three pieces of construction equipment
> financed with CNH Capital (Case-New Holland) and we just paid one off in
> full (via bank draft) so she checked our bank account to see if the debit
> hit.  It hasn't yet and that has been a persistent problem with some
> vendors.  This one and several others will take their sweet time posting
> your payment, sometimes using weekends and holidays to purposely make you
> late and then charge you with a fee.  Credit card companies are notorious
> for this.  Fortunately for me, the family CFO uses their toll-free number
> and subjects them to hours of Chinese torture until they not only refund the
> money but end up apologizing and offering some 'bene' to keep our business.
> The Holiday Inn we stayed at near Dulles hit our card for $30 (the room was
> paid in advance via Priceline) and those types of incidences require
> constant vigilance (they too will get the wrath of Khan).  It's a time
> consuming job to keep everyone honest.  I agree with you that the credit
> card companies are only slightly better, if at all, above the predatory "pay
> day" lenders.  So far, we're getting the best of them but it does take some
> time and attention.
> 
> Brad
> 
> On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Robert,
> >
> > I just asked the family CFO if we were still getting the 2% and she said
> > yes but is now "spooked" and is going to check our last statement as soon as
> > I get off the computer.
> >
> > We hardly write any checks and have had no problems yet after almost ten
> > years of bank drafts. I accept no offers of any kind over the phone no
> > matter how good they sound.  My experience is that too many of these "good
> > deals" result in re-occurring charges on your credit card.   We have fought
> > (and won) a few battles along those lines.
> >
> > While we weren't water-boarded for 16 hours, we were forced to sit
> > motionless in a chair and suffer Nurse Rachett coming by every hour or so to
> > either bitch about something or serve a mysterious concoction.  Since Fan
> > and I both enjoy cruises, I'm thinking about seeing how much passage on a
> > freighter to China costs.  It couldn't be a worse experience.
> >
> > Brad
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Robert Skinner <robert at squirrelhaven.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Brad,
> >>
> >> Glad to hear that you survived the pretzel-bender's
> >> delight of flying.  On my recent flight from Boston
> >> to Munich, the woman in front of me put her chair-back
> >> down while I was in the head, and I could not get back
> >> into my seat.  I spent 6 hours in the pull-down jump
> >> seat on the bulkhead.  It was like being impaled by a
> >> telephone pole.
> >>
> >> When you have some time to think about it:
> >>
> >> I have to admit that your plan is more agreeable than my
> >> dream last night - I was carrying a pistol to guard the
> >> $36,000 in a paper sack that I was going to pay for a
> >> new vehicle.  Things did not go well.
> >>
> >> Down to the realities:
> >>
> >> How do you feel about the security of wire drafts into
> >> your bank account?  On one hand, it seems more secure
> >> than a debit card.  On the other, I am concerned that a
> >> fraudulent or otherwise improper charge against my card,
> >> once paid, would be harder to fight.
> >>
> >> Your thoughts/experience?
> >>
> >> By the way, Fidelity is now offering only 1.5% for 529
> >> accounts.  Better check your latest "agreement" to see
> >> if they have changed terms for you.
> >>
> >> /Robert Skinner
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------
> >> Brad Haslett wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Robert,
> >> >
> >> > I feel your pain, beating the credit card companies takes some effort
> >> but
> >> > can be done.  We pay for everything, I mean everything, on a Bank of
> >> America
> >> > card that is tied into our daughters 529 plan at Fidelity.  We get 2% of
> >> our
> >> > purchases up to $1500 a year deposited into her tax free education
> >> account.
> >> > The account payment is automatically drafted from our checking account
> >> so
> >> > there's never any worry about being late, and out checking account is
> >> > overdraft protected by our money market account.  So far, we're over
> >> $7500
> >> > ahead of the game. For anyone who has kids or grandkids, this is a great
> >> > deal - far better than airline miles that you can never use when you
> >> want
> >> > to.
> >> >
> >> > Brad
> >> >
> >> > PS - Made it to China in Steerage class on Abu Ghraib Airlines.  I
> >> should be
> >> > able to stand straight by this time tomorrow.
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 9:10 PM, Robert Skinner <
> >> robert at squirrelhaven.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Something more for consideration:
> >> > >
> >> > > I have been using a Bank of America credit card for
> >> > > 20 years, and have always paid by bill on time.  I
> >> > > used to have 25 days to pay the bill.  They have
> >> > > made a hell of a lot of money from me - about 5% of
> >> > > everything that I have bought over that time.  But
> >> > > now that is not enough for them.
> >> > >
> >> > > Recently they have tightened up their terms to 20
> >> > > days.  In addition, they now take their own sweet
> >> > > time after the closing date getting the statements
> >> > > into the mail.  The net result is that I have only
> >> > > a couple of days to get off a check.  If I plan to
> >> > > get out of town for a couple of weeks, I have to
> >> > > get or calculate a balance and pay in advance.
> >> > >
> >> > > The alternative is a shower of fees and interest
> >> > > charges, which have been increased as the grace
> >> > > period has been reduced.  So far I have dealt with
> >> > > it without getting bitten.
> >> > >
> >> > > I checked, and Chase bank and Discover have also
> >> > > changed their terms in an identical way.  It is
> >> > > clear that allowing Bank of America to buy out the
> >> > > small local banks and their credit card
> >> > > competitors has materially reduced competition and
> >> > > effectively eliminated consumer options.  They
> >> > > provide a cover for the minnows to hide under.
> >> > >
> >> > > The effect, if not the intention, is to game the
> >> > > customer into paying late.  I fully anticipate
> >> > > that the pay period will be shortened to 15 days
> >> > > in the next 5 years, forcing customers to allow
> >> > > them to draft a bank account or be late.
> >> > >
> >> > > Why not use debit cards?
> >> > >
> >> > > The Hannaford security breach exposed tens of
> >> > > thousands of customers bank accounts to raiding,
> >> > > and thousands had to cancel their debit cards
> >> > > and/or bank accounts.  Electronic communications
> >> > > are not by any means secure, and a debit card
> >> > > breach (by law) is not immediately communicated
> >> > > to the customer.  It took Hannaford 3 months to
> >> > > 'fess up.  When the money is already gone from
> >> > > your account, it is up to you to scramble to get
> >> > > it back -- eventually -- while checks bounce like
> >> > > Ping-Pong balls and your credit is ruined.
> >> > >
> >> > > Rik, it is not quite so simple as who pays
> >> > > interest and who collects it.  We have allowed
> >> > > the consolidation of financial power to the point
> >> > > where the average guy has few options if he has a
> >> > > run of bad luck.  The walls cave in.
> >> > >
> >> > > While some are concerned that we might tax them
> >> > > for the benefit of others, it is increasingly
> >> > > obvious that the corporations are being given
> >> > > relatively unfettered license to farm the populace
> >> > > for their own benefit.
> >> > >
> >> > > There is something wrong here.
> >> > >
> >> > > And, by the way, my home is paid for.
> >> > >
> >> > > /Robert
> >> > >
> >> > > -----------------------------------------------------
> >> > > Rik Sandberg wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > John,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Glad you liked my quote, but you may have misinterpreted the
> >> message.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Actually, it is not supposed to be a slam on bankers as much as a
> >> wakeup
> >> > > > call to folks who can't seem to buy anything without paying for it
> >> on
> >> > > > time + interest. The bottom line cost seems to never be considered
> >> > > > anymore, only the monthly payment. Compound interest is a beautiful
> >> > > > thing when it's working in your favor, but a tough adversary when
> >> it's
> >> > > > working against you.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > One's "home" isn't HIS home until he's paid for it.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Take good care,
> >> > > > Rik
> >> > > >
> >> > > > "Is this gonna' put me in a bad mood? 'Cause I'm not usually this
> >> > > pleasant".... Rik Sandberg
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Chris Geankoplis wrote:
> >> > > > > Thanks John!
> >> > > > > Chris G
> >> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > > > From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
> >> > > > > To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> > > > > Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 9:56 PM
> >> > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] for your consideration
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >> <
> >> > > > >> "There's a reason why bankers drive Cadillacs and the rest of us
> >> drive
> >> > > > >> Chevies. Bankers collect interest,... The rest of us pay it" ....
> >> Rik
> >> > > > >> Sandberg
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >> "all through this world I've traveled I've met lots of funny men
> >> some
> >> > > rob
> >> > > > >> you with a six gun others
> >> > > > >>  with a fountain pen and through this world I've rambled and
> >> through
> >> > > this
> >> > > > >> world I've roamed you never seen an outlaw drive a family from
> >> there
> >> > > home.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > >> "Arlo Guthrie.  A fine comment giving the credit crisis we face
> >> as a
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > > nation.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >>                           JOHN Shulick
> >> > > > >>                                Pgh. Pa.
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >> --
> >> > > > >> View this message in context:
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >
> >> > >
> >> http://www.nabble.com/Harmony-at-Mackey%27s-Marina-tp17251619p17299273.html
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >> __________________________________________________
> >> > > > >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > __________________________________________________
> >> > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > __________________________________________________
> >> > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > Robert Skinner  "Squirrel Haven"
> >> > > Gorham, Maine         04038-1331
> >> > > s/v "Little Dipper" & "Edith P."
> >> > > __________________________________________________
> >> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >> --
> >> Robert Skinner  "Squirrel Haven"
> >> Gorham, Maine         04038-1331
> >> s/v "Little Dipper" & "Edith P."
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >
> >
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list

-- 
Robert Skinner  "Squirrel Haven" 
Gorham, Maine         04038-1331
s/v "Little Dipper" & "Edith P."

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