[Rhodes22-list] Complaint to Slim - Political reply to his Political Post -

[Herb Parsons]

John, you've made an incorrect leap. Non-productive is a description. 
Sorry you don't like it, but in the context of the discussion, it fit. 
It's not a "right", it's a factual statement. The discussion was taxes. 
If you're not paying taxes, you're not productive in that sense. It's 
not a judgement call, it's just the way it is.

I'm sorry if that offends you, I truly am, but that does not change my view.

When you get more for the government then you put in, then you're 
non-productive in that sense. It doesn't mean you have no value, but it 
DOES mean that someone else is having to pay your way. Life costs money. 
I don't want to be forced to pay your way. If you don't like my view on 
that, I understand, but it's my view, and I'm entitled to it.

However, your insinuation that I want to do something to folks in that 
situation, that I have some "final solution" was off the mark. You're 
simply wrong. You imposed on a view on me that is not mine. My "final 
solution" is to allow people to make their own choices, and live with 
the results of those choices.

If/when you say nonsense like that, you can expect a similar response 
from me in the future.

I would love to be a full time sailing captain. I have the credentials 
to do so. However, I do not have the belief that I can support my 
current bills and do so; so I will wait. That's my decision. It would be 
improper for me to insist that someone else cover my mortgage, feed my 
wife, grand-daughter, and daughter and pay my slip fees while I pursue 
what I want. I will pursue it when I believe I can. That's called 
responsibility.

If you believe that it's OK to take money form one group to finance 
another, that's a socialist view. You may have other non-socialist views 
(usually, that would be capitalist views), enough to make you more of a 
capitalist than a socialist, but neither term is a stigma, they 
represent views.

If you don't have those socialist views, then you understand completely 
the concept of paying your own way.


John Shulick wrote:
> quote author Tootle
>
> "I saw Herb responding to attacks and snide remarks on his beliefs.  John
> S.’s remarks and innuendo set the tone.  He is the troll if there is one."
>
> Ed,
>
>    I will openly admit that my comments contributed to the current
> situation. Now I'll tell you why I made them. Herbs' use of the word
> "non-productive" really got under my skin. Tell me what right he has to
> determine who's productive and who's not. Unless you have walked a mile in
> that persons' shoes you have absolutely no idea of what had transpired in
> that persons' life to put them in that situation. Once you've determined
> they have no value and don't contribute what becomes of them. You don't want
> to pay to educate them. They can't find work that pays them enough to feed
> and house themselves so what's left? Let them wander homeless,  committing
> crimes to stay alive until society has had enough? What I posted was the
> logical conclusion of Herbs' thought and that enraged him. I understand
> there was a tradition of someone announcing themselves to this forum, I
> formally apologize to the list membership I will do so now. Hello everybody
> on the Rhodes 22 forum, my name is John Shulick and I hail from Pittsburgh,
> Pa. I'm 50 years old, for 30 years I tried to make a living as a vocalist by
> performing as a member of the Pittsburgh opera chorus and soloist or section
> leader for any church or temple who would hire me. In addition, because
> being a vocalist pays next to nothing I have done menial labor my entire
> life installing repairing and maintaining swimming pools in the Pittsburgh
> area. My father died when I was 15 I was on my own by age 19. It took me 10
> years to get my college degree(BM Duquesne University 86) in a combination
> of full and part time attendance. My average annual income is less than 15K
> a year and I've worked as many as 4 jobs at one time to earn that. If it
> weren't for the fact my wife has a real job I would be living under a bridge
> somewhere as one of Herbs' non-productive people. The purchase of my beat up
> old 71 Rhodes is one of the high points in my life and it has been a great
> joy refinishing the hull and teaching myself to sail it this year. I joined
> this forum hoping to benefit from the accumulated knowledge here and I have.
> I do not mind political discussion but I DO mind the constant insinuation
> that my and others opinions name us as communist socialist and un american.
> Sometimes Ed I wonder if you, Herb, and god (Brads' own label not mine)
> simply post this stuff on a public forum to provoke fights? I respect you
> because of your tremendous knowledge concerning the Rhodes 22 and sailing in
> general but you insult me when your response to someone is go to Stan and
> throw money at him as a solution to everything Rhodes. Some of us can't do
> that. Oh and by the way I did catch you're oblique threat to me some months
> ago made as an aside to Elle (shoot the western Pa turkey). Do it again and
> I will see if Ben C. would like to own 1/3 of a marina. In his last post
> Herb asked me what was up my butt. What's up my butt is the conservative
> enema you three have placed there with your constant postings on your views.
>
> Nuff said
>
> John Shulick
>
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> Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
>   
>> Slim,
>>
>> Well, at least you get extra credit for making your view public and
>> for not taking a back-channel approach, but you are wrong. I don't see
>> a man defending his reputation vigorously as engaging in vitriol.
>> This group is no different than any other and is certainly capable of
>> "gang behavior", and quite frankly, several of you have ganged-up on
>> Herb as of late, including you Slim.
>>
>> "If you seek perfection, look in the mirror.  If you find it there,
>> seek it in others".  M. Forbes
>>
>> Is what you are asking a sneak preview of the Fairness Doctrine? I
>> don't like it already!  To my knowledge the only self-admitted
>> "troll" on the list has already departed.  Herb is no troll.
>>
>> Slim, you and your comrades do what you think is best, but I think
>> you're being unfair and selfish.
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 2:36 AM, Steven Alm <stevenalm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> To JLo and MJM,
>>>
>>> We have a troll on our list that has been causing problems and instilling
>>> hatred and posting foul diatribes for months now.  He has caused many to
>>> filter him out and/or delete his posts in disgust.  I, myself have
>>> received
>>> numerous back-channel messages complaining about him and his rude and
>>> inappropriate posts.  This should come to a halt.  As a member of this
>>> fine
>>> community of Rhodes owners for some 8 or 9 years, I've seen only one
>>> other
>>> member who has shown such a disrespect for others here on the Rhodes
>>> list.
>>> That individual was ultimately relieved of his status here and thankfully
>>> is
>>> no longer a member.  I recommend that this troll be sanctioned and no
>>> longer
>>> be allowed to participate in our otherwise polite and courteous exchange
>>> of
>>> sailing and/or other topics.  He has disrupted our list for too long and
>>> has
>>> caused too many arguments for the rest of us to be comfortable with
>>> posting
>>> our usual thoughts on any given topic without being lambasted with his
>>> vitriol.  He continues to insult anyone and everyone who disagrees with
>>> his
>>> positions and in doing so has created an environment of hostility that
>>> has
>>> made the Rhodes list a den of venom.  I'm referring to Herb Parsons.  I
>>> ask
>>> that you consider removing him from our group.  He contributes little
>>> other
>>> than arguments and stifles many from contributing to this wonderful
>>> forum.
>>> I want him out!
>>>
>>> Steve Alm  aka  "Slim"
>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>
>>>       
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