[Rhodes22-list] Oh My God!..more
elle
watermusic38 at yahoo.com
Sun Nov 23 20:51:52 EST 2008
Herb, here is the story related to me by a very good friend who is nearing retirement age. She is not what you would think (pince-nez glasses, sneakers, long dress. she is an accomplished artist, has master's degree in art & art history, sells her work professionally. ) She is elegant and reserved. Only change I have made was to remove full names.
After you read her tale, and then the last paragraph, let that contrast stay with you, as these are the types of people who go into the lion's den of education daily. (BTW...there is a sequel to this story...I will try to find it..)
elle
THe STORY:
>>>Just a footnote to the week! I am soooooooo irritated....and that's a mild word for the feelings I really have!!!!
I was in the school building this morning, beginning my 9th grade homeroom when one of our assistant principals came in to tell me that our community resource officer (sheriff's deputy assigned to our school) wanted to see me out by my car. I didn't think that was good news. As I went outside I saw the officer copying my vin number from outside my car window. I called out to him when I suddenly saw my back bumper hanging by a shred, the right tail light gone, and some "skin" off the back side panel.
To make a very long story short, one of the hotrodding girls in her new Ford 150 tried to turn her monster machine on a dime in the lane between the art and music teachers' cars and the students' row. Couldn't be done of course, even in a Mini, but the rip and shudder of my car being pushed into the next spot didn't stop her.....Apparently she didn't realize she hooked my bumper in her wheelwell fors ome time and just kept going, according to witnesses....tons of students about to be tardy because of gawking at all this.
Instead of getting my grades finished and beginning my new term plans with my students, I had to spend hours getting info from the officer about the accident, trying to get her parents on the phone, and get their insurance data etc..., my insurance agents, the local body shop , trying to get someone to rent me a car...etc., etc....On it goes.....
Turns out the man's insurance co. says they never heard of him....Strike one.....Strike two was this young woman's unrepentant nature which she demonstrated this afternoon upon seeing me walking to my car. She was parked near there talking with students who pointed me out. (She never sought me out to say she was sorry.) She then floored her truck and shot out of the lot.....to escape me I guess..... Good thing no one was in her way. I have an appointment to see the principal about this tomorrow.
Strike two and a half, is that my loaner car has 275,000 miles on it...and I have no idea how to put in the gas, but, it is a loaner until I can get a rental paid for by someone.....and I am grateful to Dan......and, in the light of day, I will figure out how to get the gas in.....
I have to have all my grades into the computer and sent out into cyber space by 11 o'clock tomorrow night.....and...so....I will have to go to school tomorrow, in the loaner car, after I vote to finish all this while the rest of the teaching staff works on lesson plans at home.........hisssssss!!!
And so, when Ashton brought a vase of flowers by here from Sue and Nelsonlate this afternoon, to cheer Betsy and me as we approach Mom's birthday tomorrow, we were reminded that as wild as the days get, and as unfair as they often seem, there is goodness, caring and generosity in the world.....and we are grateful for our family and friends who listen......Thanks for letting me rant.....and now on to those grades...
and, on to a better day tomorrow....
NB
We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.
1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
--- On Sun, 11/23/08, elle <watermusic38 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> From: elle <watermusic38 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Oh My God!
> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 8:31 PM
> That'll have to be a qualified 'yes.' Remember
> that my position is based on what I observed and lived for
> 33 years in a highly regarded, highly rated school system in
> the Northern Virginia suburbs.
>
> Teachers have very little discipline power as
> administrators do not stand behind them, and central office
> administrators do not stand behind school administrators.
> Central office legal counsel is a joke. the kid knows he has
> the power..all he ahs to do is callin mom or dad & lie,
> and the school backs dow. Of course, the teacher was wrong.
>
> Teachrs, being on the bottom of this discipline chain, are
> at the mercy of the administrators. On the occasion (rare!)
> that there is as administrator who has the
> ..um...fortitude..to stand up for whatever is right &
> sane in a disciplinary matter, , you'll see a school
> that works. It is the same principle of parents who hold the
> line & those who let the kids run wild.
>
> Many parents have NO idea how their kids behave in
> school...if they knew, they would be appalled. (of course,
> it would be the school's fault!
>
> (Just one facet here:) The special ed lobby in VA has
> administrators tied in knots. It is almost impossible to
> discipline any sp ed kid as all the parent has to do is have
> it documented that the misbehavior is part of the
> child's disability and there's nothing that can be
> done. And I am talking of severe behaviors.
>
> This is a very narrow lens, I know, but kids & systems
> don't differ that much.
>
> The dialog is this: The teacher is wrong. S/he embarassed,
> scared (your lie here) my kid. My kid is perfect and would
> do no such thing.
>
> Herb,
>
> I've just remembered a true story emailed to me by a
> friend (it happened to her!) who is at or very near to
> retirement age. I have to sign out of this list & go get
> it from another...I'll be back in a few with a true
> story that will appall you.
>
> elle
>
>
>
> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can
> adjust our sails.
>
> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic"
> (Lady in Red)
>
>
> --- On Sun, 11/23/08, Herb Parsons
> <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Oh My God!
> > To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 7:46 PM
> > Interesting. Please do note, MY position is that both
> the
> > educational
> > community (primarily the administrative, but the
> teachers
> > themselves are
> > also part of the problem), and the parents share fault
> in
> > the current
> > situation. Is it really your position that the
> educational
> > community
> > shares no blame in this mess?
> >
> > elle wrote:
> > > Herb,
> > >
> > > Yep, we are on opposite sides this
> > time...'seeing' the school system from
> whatever
> > angles and being in the employ for two doesn't
> hold a
> > candle to every day for 33 years, in three different
> levels
> > (elementary, jr high (I high-tailed it out of there to
> the
> > high school when they went to the
> middle-school-hormone-hell
> > model) & high school.
> > >
> > > Ya gotta have the shoes on in order to walk that
> > mile...
> > >
> > > elle
> > >
> > >
> > > We can't change the angle of the wind....but
> we
> > can adjust our sails.
> > >
> > > 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06
> "WaterMusic"
> > (Lady in Red)
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Sun, 11/23/08, Herb Parsons
> > <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> From: Herb Parsons
> <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> > >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Oh My God!
> > >> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >> Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 6:31 PM
> > >> Well elle, we're going to have to
> disagree on
> > this one.
> > >> I pay school
> > >> taxes, thus I DO have a "dog in this
> > hunt". I
> > >> also had 4 children in
> > >> various public and private schools over the
> years,
> > and I
> > >> did in fact
> > >> spend two years in the employ of a local
> school
> > district.
> > >> I've seen the
> > >> system from just about every angle possible.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> elle wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Sorry, Herb. You know not of which you
> speak.
> > In fact,
> > >>>
> > >> you acknowledge it at the beginning when you
> > >> said,"Actually, I think ..."
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> You may analyze,think, suppose and
> assume,
> > burt unless
> > >>>
> > >> you spent the years from 1969-2002 in an
> > elementary, junior
> > >> high and high school classroom, with upwards
> of
> > 120 vastly
> > >> differing 'entitled' students of all
> > colors,
> > >> backgrounds, attitudes, and watched the
> society
> > change from
> > >> the kid needing correction (being able to
> paddle
> > (which was
> > >> allowed) to the teacher needs correction
> > ("you
> > >> embarrassed my child when he had no
> > homework....") you
> > >> really have no dog in this hunt.
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> elle
> > >>>
> > >>> BYW....FYI I'm at -6 on the
> "Life
> > >>>
> > >> Sucks-O-Meter" so be forwarned and
> > forarmed...;^)
> > >>
> > >>> We can't change the angle of the
> > wind....but we
> > >>>
> > >> can adjust our sails.
> > >>
> > >>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06
> > "WaterMusic"
> > >>>
> > >> (Lady in Red)
> > >>
> > >>> --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Herb Parsons
> > >>>
> > >> <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> From: Herb Parsons
> > <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> > >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Oh My God!
> > >>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> > >>>
> > >> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >>
> > >>> Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 11:42
> PM
> > >>>
> > >>> Actually, I think it's a combination
> of
> > multiple
> > >>>
> > >> issues. Let's face it,
> > >>
> > >>> if the educational lobby concentrated as
> hard
> > on
> > >>>
> > >> issues like the one you
> > >>
> > >>> just mentioned as they do on increasing
> > funding,
> > >>>
> > >> increasing the size of
> > >>
> > >>> their bureaucracy, protecting incompetent
> > >>>
> > >> "educators", etc., those
> > >>
> > >>> laws
> > >>> likely would never have been passed.
> > >>>
> > >>> At the same time, if we as parents, were
> more
> > involved
> > >>>
> > >> in the
> > >>
> > >>> educational process of our children, most
> of
> > us would
> > >>>
> > >> be surprised at
> > >>
> > >>> exactly what we can do. However, in the
> > relative
> > >>>
> > >> vaccumn of parental
> > >>
> > >>> involvement, the bureaucracies have
> thrived
> > like a
> > >>>
> > >> fungus, and we've
> > >>
> > >>> ended up where we are now.
> > >>>
> > >>> As Brad alluded to, that's one of the
> > reasons we
> > >>>
> > >> see people making the
> > >>
> > >>> sacrifices they make to keep their kids
> in
> > private
> > >>>
> > >> schools where there
> > >>
> > >>> the bureaucratic mess is mitigated. And
> > I'm not
> > >>>
> > >> talking about the
> > >>
> > >>> wealthy, who put their kids in private
> school
> > without
> > >>>
> > >> thought or effort.
> > >>
> > >>> I'm talking about the working class
> Joe
> > that makes
> > >>>
> > >> real sacrifices
> > >>
> > >>> because they've been scared off by
> the
> > mess that
> > >>>
> > >> public school has become.
> > >>
> > >>> elle wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> Read the papers, Herb.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Educators haven't 'turned
> > over'
> > >>>>
> > >> discipline; it has been ripped
> > >>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>> out of their control by laws and
> regulations
> > and
> > >>>
> > >> lawsuits.
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> Don't tax yourself by making this
> too
> > hard;
> > >>>>
> > >> just concentrate on
> > >>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>> looking up the laws regulating the
> > disciplining of
> > >>>
> > >> special ed students.
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> You might want to add in the students
> on
> > probation
> > >>>>
> > >> who are sent back to
> > >>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>> school by naive judges.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> That's a fun mix to have in the
> > classroom: a
> > >>>>
> > >> kid who knows you
> > >>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>> can't do anything to him & a kid
> who
> > >>>
> > >> doesn't care what is done to
> > >>
> > >>> him.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> Oh..add a few who don't speak
> > English.....
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Great atmosphere for readin'
> &
> > >>>>
> > >> writin'.
> > >>
> > >>>> elle
> > >>>>
> > >>>> We can't change the angle of the
> > wind....but
> > >>>>
> > >> we can adjust our sails.
> > >>
> > >>>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06
> > >>>>
> > >> "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
> > >>
> > >>>> --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Herb Parsons
> > >>>>
> > >> <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> From: Herb Parsons
> > >>>>>
> > >> <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> > >>
> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Oh
> My
> > God!
> > >>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email
> > List"
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>> Date: Saturday, November 22,
> 2008,
> > 9:42 PM
> > >>>>> Isn't it amazing how much
> > educators have
> > >>>>>
> > >> turned over
> > >>
> > >>>>> discipline to
> > >>>>> "professionals" so they
> can
> > >>>>>
> > >> "concentrate on
> > >>
> > >>>>> educating"; yet the overall
> > >>>>> education level is declining?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Herb,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> It all reminds me of an
> incident
> > that
> > >>>>>>
> > >> happened about
> > >>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> two weeks ago
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> (and a similar incident 2
> decades
> > ago when
> > >>>>>>
> > >> my older
> > >>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> boys were
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> youngsters). One of
> Fan's
> > friends, a
> > >>>>>>
> > >> Filipino
> > >>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> lady who husband was
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> making rounds as Doc on a
> Saturday
> > >>>>>>
> > >> morning, made the
> > >>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> mistake of
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> leaving her five year-old
> with me
> > for the
> > >>>>>>
> > >> morning so
> > >>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> they could go
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> shopping. I couldn't
> wait for
> > their
> > >>>>>>
> > >> car to hit
> > >>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> the end of the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> driveway. When they
> returned,
> > Momma
> > >>>>>>
> > >> Filipino asked me
> > >>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> how "little
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> shithead" and I got
> along.
> > "Oh,
> > >>>>>>
> > >> just fine,
> > >>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> he's a sweet kid".
> I'm
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> assuming he was still too
> scared
> > to tell
> > >>>>>>
> > >> mom how I
> > >>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> picked him up by
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> his britches (therefore
> scrunching
> > what
> > >>>>>>
> > >> little nuts he
> > >>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> had) to have a
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> 'mano-a-mano' talk at
> eye
> > level.
> > >>>>>>
> > >> These
> > >>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> gutless wonders who call cops
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> for silly shit they should
> handle
> > real
> > >>>>>>
> > >> time not only
> > >>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> amaze me, but
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> piss me off.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> And you wonder why people
> work two
> > jobs to
> > >>>>>>
> > >> send their
> > >>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> kids to a
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> private school where they can
> be
> > kicked
> > >>>>>>
> > >> out in a
> > >>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> heartbeat?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Brad
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 5:55
> PM,
> > Herb
> > >>>>>>
> > >> Parsons
> > >>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I read that one too, and
> was
> > all
> > >>>>>>>
> > >> prepared to be
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> outraged as well;
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> however, I think this is
> a
> > case of
> > >>>>>>>
> > >> creating
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> "attention grabbing
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> headlines". I
> suspect
> > that the
> > >>>>>>>
> > >> kid turning
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> off the computers of those
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> around him during the
> computer
> > class
> > >>>>>>>
> > >> was the real
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> disruption that got
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> him in trouble. If you
> isolate
> > the
> > >>>>>>>
> > >> two, it makes
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> it pretty apparent.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> If he was ONLY turning
> off
> > computers
> > >>>>>>>
> > >> during
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> computer class, would he
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> have been disciplined -
> most
> > likely
> > >>>>>>> If he was ONLY
> "passing
> > >>>>>>>
> > >> wind" during
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> class, would have been
> disciplined
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> - probably not
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> If the last one was the
> case
> > though,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >> THEN it would
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> have made for a
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> really interesting story.
> > Right up
> > >>>>>>>
> > >> there with the
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> ones about 5 year olds
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> being disciplined for
> > "sexual
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> harrassment" for kissing
> girls.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Now THAT was an art form
> when
> > I was a
> > >>>>>>>
> > >> kid :)
> > >>
> > >>>>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Good thing they
> finally
> > busted
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >> this kid.
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>> Imagine, if you let this
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> kind of thing go on
> > he'd
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >> eventually end of
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>> Governor of some state
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> ignoring the
> slaughter of
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >> Thanksgiving
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>> turkeys. In my family,
> "passing
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> gas" was
> considered
> > an art
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >> form and
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>> I've always been a
> competitive
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> person. Thank
> goodness my
> > school
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >> teachers had
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>> a sense of humor - at
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> least I'd like to
> > think they
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >> did.
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>> Brad
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>
> >
> http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1121083gas1.html
> > >>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>
> __________________________________________________
> > >>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> To
> subscribe/unsubscribe
> > or for
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >> help with
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>> using the mailing list go to
> > >>>>>
> > >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>
> __________________________________________________
> > >>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>> Herb Parsons
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>
> __________________________________________________
> > >>
> > >>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe
> or
> > for help
> > >>>>>>>
> > >> with using
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> the mailing list go to
> > >>>>>
> > >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>
> __________________________________________________
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>
> __________________________________________________
> > >>
> > >>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or
> for
> > help with
> > >>>>>>
> > >> using the
> > >>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> mailing list go to
> > >>>>>
> > >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>
> __________________________________________________
> > >>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>> Herb Parsons
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>
> __________________________________________________
> > >>
> > >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for
> help
> > with
> > >>>>>
> > >> using the mailing
> > >>
> > >>>>> list go to
> > http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>
> __________________________________________________
> > >>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > __________________________________________________
> > >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help
> with
> > using
> > >>>>
> > >> the mailing list go to
> > >>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > __________________________________________________
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> --
> > >> Herb Parsons
> > >>
> > >>
> __________________________________________________
> > >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
> using
> > the mailing
> > >> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>
> __________________________________________________
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
> the
> > mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >
> __________________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Herb Parsons
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing
> > list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > __________________________________________________
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
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