[Rhodes22-list] Oh My God!
elle
watermusic38 at yahoo.com
Sun Nov 23 21:16:48 EST 2008
Yea..but some people nurse that shot for a long time.
Didn't I ever tell you about Bennie & Edward, my 16-year-old 6th graders when I taught in WVA?
elle
We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.
1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
--- On Sun, 11/23/08, R22RumRunner at aol.com <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
> From: R22RumRunner at aol.com <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Oh My God!
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 9:02 PM
> Brad,
> Funny thing about education, you only get one shot at it.
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 11/23/2008 8:42:39 P.M. Eastern Standard
> Time,
> flybrad at gmail.com writes:
>
> Herb,
>
> Speaking from my own experience, there are good public
> schools and bad
> ones. I was fortunate to go to a good one, well funded
> (thank you
> Chicago for sending your tax dollars down state), with
> lot's of
> parental involvement (I've already told the story here
> about my dad
> making asses out of the school board in public). When my
> oldest was
> ready to start school in Little Rock it was a no brainer.
> He went to
> private schools from K-12. My second went to both. Cora is
> now in
> public school and we couldn't be happier, so far. My
> bitch with the
> public school system all along is why is the Federal
> 'gubment'
> involved for any reason?
>
> Obama has mouthed lot's of answers about education and
> spent lot's of
> other folks money on experiments, but isn't willing to
> put at risk his
> own daughters (article attached). I admire he and
> Michelle for using
> their resources to their children's best advantage.
> He obviously
> feels the same way I do about education.
>
> Brad
>
> -------------------
>
> The Obamas Walk Away from Public Schools
>
> Posted By Andrew J. Coulson On November 21, 2008 @ 9:06 pm
> In
> Education and Child Policy | Comments Disabled
>
> A few months ago, Barack Obama told a gathering of the
> American
> Federation of Teachers that he opposes private school
> choice programs,
> adding: "We need to focus on fixing and improving our
> public schools;
> [1] not throwing our hands up and walking away from
> them."
>
> It's not clear whether or not the president-elect will
> be able to fix
> our public schools, and I don't know if he's
> thrown up his hands, but
> he and his two daughters have just walked away from the
> public
> schools. Again. When they move from Chicago to D.C., Malia
> and Sasha
> Obama will be moving from the prestigious private Lab
> School [2] to
> the prestigious private Sidwell Friends school — Chelsea
> Clinton's old
> stomping ground.
>
> Not that there's anything wrong with that. In fact,
> it's wonderful
> that the Obamas had such a broad range of public and
> private school
> choices available to them. What's puzzling is that the
> president-elect
> opposes programs that would bring that same easy choice of
> schools
> within reach of families who lack his personal wealth. By
> his actions,
> Senator Obama is demonstrating that he is not willing to
> wait for his
> own policy prescriptions to "fix and improve"
> public schools, but he
> expects folks with less ample bank accounts to patiently
> await his
> hoped-for change.
>
> And while many reports will no doubt trumpet the $25,000+
> tuition at
> Sidwell Friends, implying that this is extravagantly
> beyond what is
> spent in D.C. public schools, they will be mistaken. As I
> wrote in the
> [3] Washington Post and [4] on this blog, D.C. public
> schools also
> spent about $25,000 per child in the 2007-08 school year.
>
> It's not that president-elect Obama is against spending
> a lot of money
> on other people's kids — he's just against
> letting their parents
> choose where that money is spent.
>
> Article printed from Cato @ Liberty:
> http://www.cato-at-liberty.org
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 6:46 PM, Herb Parsons
> <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> > Interesting. Please do note, MY position is that both
> the educational
> > community (primarily the administrative, but the
> teachers themselves are
> > also part of the problem), and the parents share fault
> in the current
> > situation. Is it really your position that the
> educational community
> > shares no blame in this mess?
> >
> > elle wrote:
> >> Herb,
> >>
> >> Yep, we are on opposite sides this
> time...'seeing' the school system from
> whatever angles and being in the employ for two
> doesn't hold a candle to
> every day for 33 years, in three different levels
> (elementary, jr high (I
> high-tailed it out of there to the high school when they
> went to the
> middle-school-hormone-hell model) & high school.
> >>
> >> Ya gotta have the shoes on in order to walk that
> mile...
> >>
> >> elle
> >>
> >>
> >> We can't change the angle of the wind....but
> we can adjust our sails.
> >>
> >> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06
> "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
> >>
> >>
> >> --- On Sun, 11/23/08, Herb Parsons
> <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: Herb Parsons
> <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Oh My God!
> >>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>> Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 6:31 PM
> >>> Well elle, we're going to have to disagree
> on this one.
> >>> I pay school
> >>> taxes, thus I DO have a "dog in this
> hunt". I
> >>> also had 4 children in
> >>> various public and private schools over the
> years, and I
> >>> did in fact
> >>> spend two years in the employ of a local
> school district.
> >>> I've seen the
> >>> system from just about every angle possible.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> elle wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Sorry, Herb. You know not of which you
> speak. In fact,
> >>>>
> >>> you acknowledge it at the beginning when you
> >>> said,"Actually, I think ..."
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> You may analyze,think, suppose and
> assume, burt unless
> >>>>
> >>> you spent the years from 1969-2002 in an
> elementary, junior
> >>> high and high school classroom, with upwards
> of 120 vastly
> >>> differing 'entitled' students of all
> colors,
> >>> backgrounds, attitudes, and watched the
> society change from
> >>> the kid needing correction (being able to
> paddle (which was
> >>> allowed) to the teacher needs correction
> ("you
> >>> embarrassed my child when he had no
> homework....") you
> >>> really have no dog in this hunt.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> elle
> >>>>
> >>>> BYW....FYI I'm at -6 on the
> "Life
> >>>>
> >>> Sucks-O-Meter" so be forwarned and
> forarmed...;^)
> >>>
> >>>> We can't change the angle of the
> wind....but we
> >>>>
> >>> can adjust our sails.
> >>>
> >>>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06
> "WaterMusic"
> >>>>
> >>> (Lady in Red)
> >>>
> >>>> --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Herb Parsons
> >>>>
> >>> <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> From: Herb Parsons
> <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Oh My God!
> >>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> >>>>
> >>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>
> >>>> Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 11:42
> PM
> >>>>
> >>>> Actually, I think it's a combination
> of multiple
> >>>>
> >>> issues. Let's face it,
> >>>
> >>>> if the educational lobby concentrated as
> hard on
> >>>>
> >>> issues like the one you
> >>>
> >>>> just mentioned as they do on increasing
> funding,
> >>>>
> >>> increasing the size of
> >>>
> >>>> their bureaucracy, protecting incompetent
> >>>>
> >>> "educators", etc., those
> >>>
> >>>> laws
> >>>> likely would never have been passed.
> >>>>
> >>>> At the same time, if we as parents, were
> more involved
> >>>>
> >>> in the
> >>>
> >>>> educational process of our children, most
> of us would
> >>>>
> >>> be surprised at
> >>>
> >>>> exactly what we can do. However, in the
> relative
> >>>>
> >>> vaccumn of parental
> >>>
> >>>> involvement, the bureaucracies have
> thrived like a
> >>>>
> >>> fungus, and we've
> >>>
> >>>> ended up where we are now.
> >>>>
> >>>> As Brad alluded to, that's one of the
> reasons we
> >>>>
> >>> see people making the
> >>>
> >>>> sacrifices they make to keep their kids
> in private
> >>>>
> >>> schools where there
> >>>
> >>>> the bureaucratic mess is mitigated. And
> I'm not
> >>>>
> >>> talking about the
> >>>
> >>>> wealthy, who put their kids in private
> school without
> >>>>
> >>> thought or effort.
> >>>
> >>>> I'm talking about the working class
> Joe that makes
> >>>>
> >>> real sacrifices
> >>>
> >>>> because they've been scared off by
> the mess that
> >>>>
> >>> public school has become.
> >>>
> >>>> elle wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Read the papers, Herb.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Educators haven't 'turned
> over'
> >>>>>
> >>> discipline; it has been ripped
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> out of their control by laws and
> regulations and
> >>>>
> >>> lawsuits.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Don't tax yourself by making this
> too hard;
> >>>>>
> >>> just concentrate on
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> looking up the laws regulating the
> disciplining of
> >>>>
> >>> special ed students.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> You might want to add in the students
> on probation
> >>>>>
> >>> who are sent back to
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> school by naive judges.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> That's a fun mix to have in the
> classroom: a
> >>>>>
> >>> kid who knows you
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> can't do anything to him & a kid
> who
> >>>>
> >>> doesn't care what is done to
> >>>
> >>>> him.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Oh..add a few who don't speak
> English.....
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Great atmosphere for readin'
> &
> >>>>>
> >>> writin'.
> >>>
> >>>>> elle
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We can't change the angle of the
> wind....but
> >>>>>
> >>> we can adjust our sails.
> >>>
> >>>>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06
> >>>>>
> >>> "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
> >>>
> >>>>> --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Herb Parsons
> >>>>>
> >>> <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> From: Herb Parsons
> >>>>>>
> >>> <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> >>>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Oh
> My God!
> >>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email
> List"
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Date: Saturday, November 22,
> 2008, 9:42 PM
> >>>>>> Isn't it amazing how much
> educators have
> >>>>>>
> >>> turned over
> >>>
> >>>>>> discipline to
> >>>>>> "professionals" so they
> can
> >>>>>>
> >>> "concentrate on
> >>>
> >>>>>> educating"; yet the overall
> >>>>>> education level is declining?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Herb,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It all reminds me of an
> incident that
> >>>>>>>
> >>> happened about
> >>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> two weeks ago
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> (and a similar incident 2
> decades ago when
> >>>>>>>
> >>> my older
> >>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> boys were
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> youngsters). One of
> Fan's friends, a
> >>>>>>>
> >>> Filipino
> >>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> lady who husband was
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> making rounds as Doc on a
> Saturday
> >>>>>>>
> >>> morning, made the
> >>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> mistake of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> leaving her five year-old
> with me for the
> >>>>>>>
> >>> morning so
> >>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> they could go
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> shopping. I couldn't
> wait for their
> >>>>>>>
> >>> car to hit
> >>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> the end of the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> driveway. When they
> returned, Momma
> >>>>>>>
> >>> Filipino asked me
> >>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> how "little
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> shithead" and I got
> along. "Oh,
> >>>>>>>
> >>> just fine,
> >>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> he's a sweet kid".
> I'm
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> assuming he was still too
> scared to tell
> >>>>>>>
> >>> mom how I
> >>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> picked him up by
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> his britches (therefore
> scrunching what
> >>>>>>>
> >>> little nuts he
> >>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> had) to have a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 'mano-a-mano' talk at
> eye level.
> >>>>>>>
> >>> These
> >>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> gutless wonders who call cops
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> for silly shit they should
> handle real
> >>>>>>>
> >>> time not only
> >>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> amaze me, but
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> piss me off.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> And you wonder why people
> work two jobs to
> >>>>>>>
> >>> send their
> >>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> kids to a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> private school where they can
> be kicked
> >>>>>>>
> >>> out in a
> >>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> heartbeat?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Brad
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 5:55
> PM, Herb
> >>>>>>>
> >>> Parsons
> >>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I read that one too, and
> was all
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> prepared to be
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> outraged as well;
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> however, I think this is
> a case of
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> creating
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> "attention grabbing
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> headlines". I
> suspect that the
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> kid turning
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> off the computers of those
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> around him during the
> computer class
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> was the real
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> disruption that got
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> him in trouble. If you
> isolate the
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> two, it makes
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> it pretty apparent.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If he was ONLY turning
> off computers
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> during
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> computer class, would he
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> have been disciplined -
> most likely
> >>>>>>>> If he was ONLY
> "passing
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> wind" during
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> class, would have been
> disciplined
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> - probably not
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If the last one was the
> case though,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> THEN it would
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> have made for a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> really interesting story.
> Right up
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> there with the
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> ones about 5 year olds
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> being disciplined for
> "sexual
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> harrassment" for kissing
> girls.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Now THAT was an art form
> when I was a
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> kid :)
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Good thing they
> finally busted
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> this kid.
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Imagine, if you let this
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> kind of thing go on
> he'd
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> eventually end of
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Governor of some state
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ignoring the
> slaughter of
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> Thanksgiving
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> turkeys. In my family,
> "passing
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> gas" was
> considered an art
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> form and
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> I've always been a
> competitive
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> person. Thank
> goodness my school
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> teachers had
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> a sense of humor - at
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> least I'd like to
> think they
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> did.
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> Brad
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>
> http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1121083gas1.html
> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> To
> subscribe/unsubscribe or for
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> help with
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> using the mailing list go to
> >>>>>>
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> Herb Parsons
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe
> or for help
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> with using
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> the mailing list go to
> >>>>>>
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or
> for help with
> >>>>>>>
> >>> using the
> >>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> mailing list go to
> >>>>>>
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Herb Parsons
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for
> help with
> >>>>>>
> >>> using the mailing
> >>>
> >>>>>> list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help
> with using
> >>>>>
> >>> the mailing list go to
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> --
> >>> Herb Parsons
> >>>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
> using the mailing
> >>> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> __________________________________________________
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
> the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Herb Parsons
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > __________________________________________________
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing list go to
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> __________________________________________________
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