[Rhodes22-list] Outdoor Storage ? ?

KUHN, LELAND LKUHN at cnmc.org
Thu Oct 16 08:25:38 EDT 2008 

Hank & Rick,

I don't know of any marinas that require masts to come down for dry
storage, but my old marina wouldn't allow us to have the sails attached,
furling or non-furling.  Even if properly secured, they were afraid they
might come loose and cause damage.

It happened to one of our Rhodes.  We assume that workers accidentally
untied the Genoa ties and a huge wind unfurled it, tilting the boat on
the jack stands.  The topsides had to be repainted; the Genoa and furler
needed replacing; and damage was caused to a neighboring yacht.

I considered this a freak accident, and always keep my sails attached
with the mast up.

Lee

-----Original Message-----
From: Hank [mailto:hnw555 at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:46 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outdoor Storage ? ?

Rick,

Where are you located?  Here on the east coast every boat yard has
dozens,
if not hundreds, of boats stored on the hard with the mast up.
Everything
from 20' to 50'.  Boats don't generally topple in a yard because the
mast is
up, they topple because they are incorrectly blocked or someone has
messed
with the jackstands.

I still stand by my position that your reasons for taking down the mast
regarding stress on the mast, rigging and chainplates just doesn't make
sense.  The stress is too small to be a factor based upon the loads it
is
designed to handle.

Hank

On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 9:09 PM, EmailUser sloopblueheron <
sloopblueheron at isp.com> wrote:

> Hank,
>
> As Andrew says, the rigging and hull react differently to wind on the
mast
> in the water as opposed to when the boat is stiffly supported by jack
> stands.  Under sail, the mast distributes the force evenly in one
> direction rather than wobbling as it does when bare.
>
> Another problem with storing the boat with the mast up is you don't
get a
> chance to inspect and oil the stays in the spring.  Also, mast up
storage
> raises the center of gravity making toppling more likely.
>
> My club won't store boats with masts up because our insurance prohits
it,
> probably due to the toppling factor.  A very good sailboat yard next
door
> does store boats mast up, but only if the masts are keel mounted.
>
> Rick
>
> On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 3:07 PM, Andrew Collins <
> sailingvesselcarmen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hank
> >
> > You are right.
> >
> > A couple of nuances:
> >
> > - on water the boat will give way to imposed forces, whether they be
> wind,
> > water, or other, so the entire vessel sees less reaction in all
parts of
> it
> > structure. As Newton said, 'for every action, there is an equal and
> > opposite
> > reaction' . Or something like that. So a boat on a stand will offer
more
> > resistance to wind than a boat on the water which can give way,
heel,
> aling
> > itself to path of least resistance, etc.
> >
> > - loosening the rigging too much will cause impact forces to occur
as the
> > mast shifts in reaction to wind shifts or gusts and is stopped
abruptly
> by
> > the rigging wires. These forces are typically orders of magnitude
higher
> > than those experienced by taught rigging supporting a mast.
> >
> > Andrew
> > sv Carmen
> >  On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Hank <hnw555 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Rick,
> > >
> > > How does a boat on stands suffer more stress than a boat in the
water?
> >  The
> > > IMF mast offers the same wind resistance whether in the water or
on
> > stands
> > > so how does that make a difference.  Thousands of boats are stored
> every
> > > winter on jack stands with the mast up with no detrimental
effects.
> > >
> > > Certainly, the boat sits a little differently on stands than it
does in
> > the
> > > water, but I don't see how this could place more stress on the
rigging
> > and
> > > chain plates.  The hull just doesn't flex that much.  And if you
were
> > > really
> > > worried about it, just loosen the turn buckles a turn or two while
on
> the
> > > stands.  The mast will still have plenty of support since it is
> unloaded
> > > and
> > > not withstanding the pressure of sailing.  By the way, actually
sailing
> > > your
> > > boat puts MUCH more stress on the rigging and chainplates than
being at
> > > rest
> > > either in the water or on the hard.  The rigging and the
chainplates
> are
> > > designed for this.
> > >
> > > I'm sorry, but your statement just doesn't make any sense.
> > >
> > > Hank
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10/14/08, EmailUser sloopblueheron <sloopblueheron at isp.com>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Bill,
> > > >
> > > > A boat in the cradle with the mast up suffers more stress on the
> > rigging
> > > > and
> > > > chain plates than a boat in the water.  Especially the IMF mast
that
> > > offers
> > > > a lot of wind resistance.
> > > >
> > > > Rick
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 9:04 AM, <Bdunn1 at aol.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I need some advice.   My Rhodes is on Lake George and in the
past I
> > > have
> > > > > taken the mast down and stored the boat in the boathouse.   I
can't
> > do
> > > > that
> > > > > this
> > > > > year.   Is there any problem with leaving the boat outside
with the
> > > mast
> > > > up
> > > > > in
> > > > > a cradle?   Should I loosely drape the boat?   Any possible
damage
> to
> > > the
> > > > > sail
> > > > > within the mast?   Thank you.
> > > > > Bill Dunn
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Rick
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