[Rhodes22-list] POLITICAL Hey Plumber Joe: Been There, Done That

Sun Oct 19 20:32:26 EDT 2008

Herb,

Of course you said that 'tongue in cheek', but we landed on the beach
with a camper and a generator, and that was a lot more than a lot of
other people had at the time.  We didn't go there to "help" people, we
wanted to make a buck.  When the buck wasn't there immediately, we
helped people as a marketing "gimmick". I don't give a shit if you're
"yellow, black or white" as long as your money is green.  After three
years, our days of being "community organizers" are over.  But, we're
still there, something a lot of our competition can't say.

Yeah, we're pretty much capitalist bastards!

Brad

On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 7:22 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> Brad!!
>
> I want to see if I'm completely clear on this:
> You're in the 99th percentile as far as monetary wealth goes.
> You and foreign born wife accomplished this in a single generation.
> And you're unwilling to share your quickly found wealth with those poor
> folks that have struggled for 3 or 4 generations to break free from
> their poverty, and now only ask that they have a few necessities in life
> like calbe for their color TV's and cell phones.
>
> I'm sure there's some racist motivation in your refusal to share the wealth.
>
>
> Brad Haslett wrote:
>> Herb,
>>
>> Fan and I are BARELY in the 99% percentile and we're not rich. She
>> arrived here in 1989 shortly after Tienanmen Square with two suit
>> cases and $50 US money and I met her ten years later after her second
>> graduate degree and third job.  We struck a bond because after decades
>> of living a "macroni and cheese lifestyle", maybe a "rice and noodles"
>> lifestyle would be more appropriate - we found ourselves on the path
>> to success. Now we're being told that we're guilty of something.
>>
>> It's always good to go home to Brownstown, Illinois.  The town has
>> grown, it was 650 people when I grew-up there, now it's up to 700
>> people.
>>
>> I'll get back to you tomorrow on how things have changed.  I'm glad to
>> be back home.  Mom and Dad are always good for inspiration.
>>
>> We'll survive!
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 3:31 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>>
>>> What Obama and his ilk don't understand is that there are people that
>>> recognize right and wrong no matter who it's directed at.
>>>
>>> I'm in the 95% that would get a tax cut under Obama's plan.
>>>
>>> I don't like it.
>>>
>>> I don't like it because it takes away from the other 5% to give to me. I
>>> hope someday to be in that 5%, and I wouldn't want that done to me.
>>>
>>> It's all part of that old fashioned notion of do unto others as you
>>> would have them do unto you. I don't want anyone taking money from me
>>> and saying "I'm going to give this to someone else because they have
>>> less than you."
>>>
>>> Because I don't want it done to me, I don't want it done to anyone else.
>>>
>>> But, I realize I'm a bit extreme.
>>>
>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
>>>
>>>> Andrew,
>>>>
>>>> Pay attention here, Joe the Plumber is not doing mid-night repairs on
>>>> peoples shitters.  He is working under someone else's license. If you
>>>> know plumbing and plumbers then you know that it takes a seven year
>>>> apprenticeship.  How else does one become a plumber?  So did Joe ask
>>>> an invalid question because he didn't identify himself as "Joe the
>>>> Apprentice Plumber"? The latest attack on Joe was from The One
>>>> himself, "how many plumbers do you know that make more than $250,000 a
>>>> year?".  You should know, lot's of plumbing contractors make that much
>>>> and more.
>>>>
>>>> The answer, "we need to share the wealth" is what is disturbing.  You
>>>> can't mathematically give 95% of the people "tax cuts" when the bottom
>>>> 38% don't pay taxes.  Even if you could, I wouldn't be in the 95% and
>>>> as Tip O'neil used to say, "all politics is local". If almost 40% of
>>>> voters have the chance to vote themselves a raise, they will.  You now
>>>> only need a small percentage of party faithful to vote your way and,
>>>> PRESTO!, we've arrived at the tipping point our founding fathers
>>>> worried about.
>>>>
>>>> The truth of the matter is, we don't know what Obama will do, his
>>>> positions have shifted weekly.  As a community organizer he helped
>>>> shake down companies out of money.  As a grant administrator he
>>>> distributed monies to organizations based on race and radical ideas,
>>>> not sound education principles.  As a State Senator he either voted
>>>> "present" if it was a controversial issue or "Yea" if it involved
>>>> funneling money to Chicago cronies for public/private enterprises,
>>>> most of which failed.  As a US Senator he followed the party line 97%
>>>> of the time and wrote no major piece of legislation.
>>>>
>>>> There isn't a whole lot in his record of late to make judgements on
>>>> other than words.  According to Obama, words mean something.  So, I
>>>> guess that when he plans to raise taxes and engage in restraint of
>>>> trade he means it.  Let's hope that works out better than it did for
>>>> Herbert Hoover.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe this is what Dr. Johnson was thinking when he coined the phrase,
>>>> "it is the triumph of hope over experience".
>>>>
>>>> Brad
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 4:37 PM, Andrew Collins
>>>> <sailingvesselcarmen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Brad
>>>>>
>>>>> What was your point exactly, Brad? You made mine quite nicely, thank you.
>>>>> You are having trouble focusing.
>>>>> I am very well versed in plumbing, and have seen just how badly unlicensed
>>>>> plumbers can screw things up. Some of them even think shit can flow uphill,
>>>>> and I have the photos to prove it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I tell all my intern engineers the first rule of construction is "shit flows
>>>>> downhill", and have been telling them for 30 years.
>>>>>
>>>>> My firm can plumb anything you like, we are licensed in 4 states. We abide
>>>>> by the law of the land, as do you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Get licensed Joe!
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 4:56 PM, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrew,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> God bless your immature heart.  How the hell do you get experience?
>>>>>> You started out shitting in your pants.  Someone had to help you find
>>>>>> your way to the John.  Attacking Joe the Plumber because he doesn't
>>>>>> have a license is silly.  Allow me to let you in on a little secret
>>>>>> here.  I work in the most regulated profession in the world.  I get
>>>>>> tested at at minimum every six months (I'm an examiner).  I get a
>>>>>> physical every six months.  Every day at work I'm subject to drug
>>>>>> testing.  Every day I'm subject to a random government oversight test.
>>>>>>  I challenge you to find a profession that has a bigger microscope
>>>>>> focused on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are worried about a plumber?  Here's a clue kid!  Shit flows
>>>>>> downhill.  Plumbing is serious business.  It takes 7 years of
>>>>>> experience to get a plumbers license.  You have to be smart to get
>>>>>> one.  But don't you cast aspersions on someone who is working on a
>>>>>> plumbing license or someone who is aspiring one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most of the PhD's I know couldn't pour piss out of a boot with the
>>>>>> instructions printed on the heel.  Never underestimate the common
>>>>>> wisdom of someone who knows the direction of shit given gravity or
>>>>>> "shit from shinola".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brad
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Andrew Collins
>>>>>> <sailingvesselcarmen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear pdgrand nospam:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> awful post
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> " ... when decades of liberal energy policy came home to roost "?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This post isn't worthy of even this lowly slug-fest we call a sailing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> forum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And whaddabout the subject line? Ed where are you?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can we have a new rule: you have to write it yourself not cut and paste
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> any
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> old uncorroborated opinion that oozes across the web?
>>>>>>> And if Joe is an unlicensed plumber, he is just that. He should be
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> licensed,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> take the tests, go to trade school. Do unlicensed pilots fly? Do
>>>>>>> unregistered engineers practice, do unlicensed beauticians give facials?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> No,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> they don't
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This unlicensed tradesman is manipulating gas installations, connections
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the public water supply, connectiions to public sewer systems, etc. This
>>>>>>> work brings with it responsibilities that every municipality requires be
>>>>>>> satisfied by obtaining a plumbing license before being allowed to this
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> kind
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 2:37 PM, <pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> October 17, 2008
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hey Plumber Joe: Been There, Done That
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> By C. Edmund Wright<http://www.americanthinker.com/c_edmund_wright/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> God love you Joe. Bless your heart Joe.  You, and people like you, are
>>>>>>>> what makes the country work. You make the country great. You get it --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> you
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> act on it -- and you enrich the lives of your family and your friends
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> your communities and your charities as a result.
>>>>>>>> But I think what I should say now is "God help you Joe."  Look, 16 plus
>>>>>>>> years ago I was where you are now. And I must tell you  if Obama wins, I
>>>>>>>> am pulling the plug in a few months. I am out. I have had it.  I am
>>>>>>>> preparing to destroy almost 100 jobs and lower my tax bracket and I
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> can't
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> wait.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Consider: 16 years ago I was statistically in poverty, but I had dreams
>>>>>>>> and a plan. At the time, the remnants of Reaganomics still set the
>>>>>>>> economic tone and a fired up Newt Gingrich was forcing conservatism on
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Clinton White House every time Bill and Hillary tried to move left.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>  There
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> were actually politicians who praised business owners and business in
>>>>>>>> general.  Against that backdrop, I've had a pretty good run. It's been
>>>>>>>> extremely challenging and the move up was not a straight line, but I am
>>>>>>>> better off than I was 16 years ago. And 8 years ago. And 4 years ago.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> And
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> so are a lot of folks who have been on this ride with me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But Joe, I am not better off than I was just 2 years ago. That's when
>>>>>>>> decades of liberal energy policy came home to roost and four dollar gas
>>>>>>>> took several hundred thousands from my bottom line faster than I could
>>>>>>>> possibly react.  That same gas price slammed my customers -- and my
>>>>>>>> customer's customers -- forcing our company into a vice of rapidly
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> rising
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> costs and rapidly dropping revenues. Oh, and for fun, slower payments
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> from
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> our customers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That started the ripple through the sub prime mortgage industry, and we
>>>>>>>> have all seen the unraveling of our financial system which was more or
>>>>>>>> less totally underpinned by real estate "values." Those assumed
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> valuations
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> were the basis for any number of derivatives and credit swaps and so on.
>>>>>>>> Well, forget all that Wall Street talk. To you and me it means employees
>>>>>>>> are more desperate for money, customers are less willing to buy, slower
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> pay and banks less willing to lend. It certainly means whatever homes
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 401K's you have are worth less too which makes your bank even less
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> anxious
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to lend to your business. It is the main street carnage of "unfettered
>>>>>>>> government" onto small business. It is the destructive fruit of
>>>>>>>> environmental leftists, the Fannie-Freddie cronies in government and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> other
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> corrupt liberals in positions of power.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And sadly, this is also the result of George Bush giving into these
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> folks
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> all too often in defense of his "new tone." (That worked out well,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> it?) This was helped ironically by John McCain "reaching across the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> aisle"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to vote against tax cuts and vote for energy restrictions and so on. All
>>>>>>>> of this was nicely summed up by Mitt Romney when he said that our
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> problems
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> stem from "too many Republicans acting too much like Democrats." Now, if
>>>>>>>> the polls are anywhere near accurate, we are going to get a taste of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> "real
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Democrats acting too much like Marxists" for at least a few years.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mitt was right, but the pundits said McCain was more acceptable to the
>>>>>>>> moderates. Hmmm. Wonder if a financial turn-around specialist like Mitt
>>>>>>>> might sell to the moderates now? Just a wild thought from someone not
>>>>>>>> smart enough to be a beltway pundit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now Joe, as someone whose been there, let me tell you how this works,
>>>>>>>> though I think you have a good idea.  At the end of the year, as an LLC,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> do file taxes with the business profit on my personal returns like many
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> others do as well.  And yes, that figure is much bigger than 250
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> thousand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But that's not really MY MONEY to keep. It's how I underpin my business.
>>>>>>>> When customers disappear or take their time paying bills, I still have
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> pay my employees, rent, suppliers, and countless other expenses. Every
>>>>>>>> penny that the tax man takes out of that profit is less money that I
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> have
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to carry forward to stay in business for the next year. And if Obama and
>>>>>>>> Reid and Pelosi take more of this by "raising taxes on the rich" then of
>>>>>>>> course my business will suffer. And so will all the employees.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is exactly what almost none of those lawyers turned politicians
>>>>>>>> understand.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But of course, you will have to send tax money into the government, Joe,
>>>>>>>> because the man who is in charge of spending that money -- Charlie
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rangel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- damned sure wasn't paying his fair share as we know now. Get out that
>>>>>>>> checkbook.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of course, all of this matters only if you can afford to fill your
>>>>>>>> plumbing vans with gas at gosh knows what price. It could be that the
>>>>>>>> recession will lower the gas price, but that's not terribly good news
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> you either, since customers don't spend as much money in a recession. I
>>>>>>>> mean, I hate to burst your bubble, but small business owners are
>>>>>>>> surrounded by a sea of challenges outside their control and almost all
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> them are caused by liberalism. Government has formed a business firing
>>>>>>>> squad and it's a doggone circle!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wish you well, guy.  You might just have the genius and persistence to
>>>>>>>> pull this off. I really do hope so. As for me, I have had enough. I have
>>>>>>>> fought creeping liberalism and managed more wins than losses over 17
>>>>>>>> years. We have progressed to where  our business,  now a corporation,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>  is
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> big enough so that Obama and his ilk now have their own ideas about
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> "what
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> larger businesses can afford" and what "corporations can afford."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well I've got news for him. I cannot afford what they think I can
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> afford,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> so I am breaking her up and giving her away to some key employees.  I
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> wish
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> them well too. They are like you, tough and smart. Perhaps if they stay
>>>>>>>> small enough and never can carry forward more than 250 thou to the next
>>>>>>>> year, they will be allowed to keep their businesses through a downturn.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As for me? I'm outta here.
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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