[Rhodes22-list] POLITICAL Hey Plumber Joe: Been There, Done That
Herb Parsons
hparsons at parsonsys.com
Sun Oct 19 20:48:31 EDT 2008
I think my wife and I and some friends are going to try to do a bike
ride to Florida either late fall or early spring. I'll probably take you
up on it then!
Brad Haslett wrote:
> Herb,
>
> Come have dinner at my house sometime!
>
> I'll introduce you to eyewitnesses.
>
> They appreciate freedom in our country in ways we only dream about.
>
> Brad
>
> On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 7:32 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>
>> Actually, I've meant to say this a few times.
>>
>> All sarcasm aside, I think it'd be an honor to hear stories from your
>> wife sometime. I couldn't point Tienamen Square out on a map, but I
>> (probably like thousands of others around the world), can't hear that
>> name without thinking about the protester standing in front of the
>> tanks. The perspective from someone there waould ba kin to listening to
>> the WWII vets I've heard who have some amazing stories.
>>
>> In this country, our revolution is so far behind us, and we have become
>> so complacent, fat, and happy that we forget that people were willing to
>> do to achieve what we have, while we won't give up our toys and
>> diversions to protect the freedoms we have.
>>
>>
>> Brad Haslett wrote:
>>
>>> Herb,
>>>
>>> Fan and I are BARELY in the 99% percentile and we're not rich. She
>>> arrived here in 1989 shortly after Tienanmen Square with two suit
>>> cases and $50 US money and I met her ten years later after her second
>>> graduate degree and third job. We struck a bond because after decades
>>> of living a "macroni and cheese lifestyle", maybe a "rice and noodles"
>>> lifestyle would be more appropriate - we found ourselves on the path
>>> to success. Now we're being told that we're guilty of something.
>>>
>>> It's always good to go home to Brownstown, Illinois. The town has
>>> grown, it was 650 people when I grew-up there, now it's up to 700
>>> people.
>>>
>>> I'll get back to you tomorrow on how things have changed. I'm glad to
>>> be back home. Mom and Dad are always good for inspiration.
>>>
>>> We'll survive!
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 3:31 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> What Obama and his ilk don't understand is that there are people that
>>>> recognize right and wrong no matter who it's directed at.
>>>>
>>>> I'm in the 95% that would get a tax cut under Obama's plan.
>>>>
>>>> I don't like it.
>>>>
>>>> I don't like it because it takes away from the other 5% to give to me. I
>>>> hope someday to be in that 5%, and I wouldn't want that done to me.
>>>>
>>>> It's all part of that old fashioned notion of do unto others as you
>>>> would have them do unto you. I don't want anyone taking money from me
>>>> and saying "I'm going to give this to someone else because they have
>>>> less than you."
>>>>
>>>> Because I don't want it done to me, I don't want it done to anyone else.
>>>>
>>>> But, I realize I'm a bit extreme.
>>>>
>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Andrew,
>>>>>
>>>>> Pay attention here, Joe the Plumber is not doing mid-night repairs on
>>>>> peoples shitters. He is working under someone else's license. If you
>>>>> know plumbing and plumbers then you know that it takes a seven year
>>>>> apprenticeship. How else does one become a plumber? So did Joe ask
>>>>> an invalid question because he didn't identify himself as "Joe the
>>>>> Apprentice Plumber"? The latest attack on Joe was from The One
>>>>> himself, "how many plumbers do you know that make more than $250,000 a
>>>>> year?". You should know, lot's of plumbing contractors make that much
>>>>> and more.
>>>>>
>>>>> The answer, "we need to share the wealth" is what is disturbing. You
>>>>> can't mathematically give 95% of the people "tax cuts" when the bottom
>>>>> 38% don't pay taxes. Even if you could, I wouldn't be in the 95% and
>>>>> as Tip O'neil used to say, "all politics is local". If almost 40% of
>>>>> voters have the chance to vote themselves a raise, they will. You now
>>>>> only need a small percentage of party faithful to vote your way and,
>>>>> PRESTO!, we've arrived at the tipping point our founding fathers
>>>>> worried about.
>>>>>
>>>>> The truth of the matter is, we don't know what Obama will do, his
>>>>> positions have shifted weekly. As a community organizer he helped
>>>>> shake down companies out of money. As a grant administrator he
>>>>> distributed monies to organizations based on race and radical ideas,
>>>>> not sound education principles. As a State Senator he either voted
>>>>> "present" if it was a controversial issue or "Yea" if it involved
>>>>> funneling money to Chicago cronies for public/private enterprises,
>>>>> most of which failed. As a US Senator he followed the party line 97%
>>>>> of the time and wrote no major piece of legislation.
>>>>>
>>>>> There isn't a whole lot in his record of late to make judgements on
>>>>> other than words. According to Obama, words mean something. So, I
>>>>> guess that when he plans to raise taxes and engage in restraint of
>>>>> trade he means it. Let's hope that works out better than it did for
>>>>> Herbert Hoover.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe this is what Dr. Johnson was thinking when he coined the phrase,
>>>>> "it is the triumph of hope over experience".
>>>>>
>>>>> Brad
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 4:37 PM, Andrew Collins
>>>>> <sailingvesselcarmen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Brad
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What was your point exactly, Brad? You made mine quite nicely, thank you.
>>>>>> You are having trouble focusing.
>>>>>> I am very well versed in plumbing, and have seen just how badly unlicensed
>>>>>> plumbers can screw things up. Some of them even think shit can flow uphill,
>>>>>> and I have the photos to prove it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I tell all my intern engineers the first rule of construction is "shit flows
>>>>>> downhill", and have been telling them for 30 years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My firm can plumb anything you like, we are licensed in 4 states. We abide
>>>>>> by the law of the land, as do you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Get licensed Joe!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 4:56 PM, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Andrew,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> God bless your immature heart. How the hell do you get experience?
>>>>>>> You started out shitting in your pants. Someone had to help you find
>>>>>>> your way to the John. Attacking Joe the Plumber because he doesn't
>>>>>>> have a license is silly. Allow me to let you in on a little secret
>>>>>>> here. I work in the most regulated profession in the world. I get
>>>>>>> tested at at minimum every six months (I'm an examiner). I get a
>>>>>>> physical every six months. Every day at work I'm subject to drug
>>>>>>> testing. Every day I'm subject to a random government oversight test.
>>>>>>> I challenge you to find a profession that has a bigger microscope
>>>>>>> focused on it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are worried about a plumber? Here's a clue kid! Shit flows
>>>>>>> downhill. Plumbing is serious business. It takes 7 years of
>>>>>>> experience to get a plumbers license. You have to be smart to get
>>>>>>> one. But don't you cast aspersions on someone who is working on a
>>>>>>> plumbing license or someone who is aspiring one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most of the PhD's I know couldn't pour piss out of a boot with the
>>>>>>> instructions printed on the heel. Never underestimate the common
>>>>>>> wisdom of someone who knows the direction of shit given gravity or
>>>>>>> "shit from shinola".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brad
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Andrew Collins
>>>>>>> <sailingvesselcarmen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear pdgrand nospam:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> awful post
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> " ... when decades of liberal energy policy came home to roost "?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This post isn't worthy of even this lowly slug-fest we call a sailing
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> forum.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And whaddabout the subject line? Ed where are you?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can we have a new rule: you have to write it yourself not cut and paste
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> old uncorroborated opinion that oozes across the web?
>>>>>>>> And if Joe is an unlicensed plumber, he is just that. He should be
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> licensed,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> take the tests, go to trade school. Do unlicensed pilots fly? Do
>>>>>>>> unregistered engineers practice, do unlicensed beauticians give facials?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> they don't
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This unlicensed tradesman is manipulating gas installations, connections
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the public water supply, connectiions to public sewer systems, etc. This
>>>>>>>> work brings with it responsibilities that every municipality requires be
>>>>>>>> satisfied by obtaining a plumbing license before being allowed to this
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> kind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 2:37 PM, <pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> October 17, 2008
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hey Plumber Joe: Been There, Done That
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> By C. Edmund Wright<http://www.americanthinker.com/c_edmund_wright/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> God love you Joe. Bless your heart Joe. You, and people like you, are
>>>>>>>>> what makes the country work. You make the country great. You get it --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> act on it -- and you enrich the lives of your family and your friends
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> your communities and your charities as a result.
>>>>>>>>> But I think what I should say now is "God help you Joe." Look, 16 plus
>>>>>>>>> years ago I was where you are now. And I must tell you if Obama wins, I
>>>>>>>>> am pulling the plug in a few months. I am out. I have had it. I am
>>>>>>>>> preparing to destroy almost 100 jobs and lower my tax bracket and I
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> can't
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> wait.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Consider: 16 years ago I was statistically in poverty, but I had dreams
>>>>>>>>> and a plan. At the time, the remnants of Reaganomics still set the
>>>>>>>>> economic tone and a fired up Newt Gingrich was forcing conservatism on
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Clinton White House every time Bill and Hillary tried to move left.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> were actually politicians who praised business owners and business in
>>>>>>>>> general. Against that backdrop, I've had a pretty good run. It's been
>>>>>>>>> extremely challenging and the move up was not a straight line, but I am
>>>>>>>>> better off than I was 16 years ago. And 8 years ago. And 4 years ago.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> so are a lot of folks who have been on this ride with me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But Joe, I am not better off than I was just 2 years ago. That's when
>>>>>>>>> decades of liberal energy policy came home to roost and four dollar gas
>>>>>>>>> took several hundred thousands from my bottom line faster than I could
>>>>>>>>> possibly react. That same gas price slammed my customers -- and my
>>>>>>>>> customer's customers -- forcing our company into a vice of rapidly
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> rising
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> costs and rapidly dropping revenues. Oh, and for fun, slower payments
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> our customers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That started the ripple through the sub prime mortgage industry, and we
>>>>>>>>> have all seen the unraveling of our financial system which was more or
>>>>>>>>> less totally underpinned by real estate "values." Those assumed
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> valuations
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> were the basis for any number of derivatives and credit swaps and so on.
>>>>>>>>> Well, forget all that Wall Street talk. To you and me it means employees
>>>>>>>>> are more desperate for money, customers are less willing to buy, slower
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> pay and banks less willing to lend. It certainly means whatever homes
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 401K's you have are worth less too which makes your bank even less
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> anxious
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> to lend to your business. It is the main street carnage of "unfettered
>>>>>>>>> government" onto small business. It is the destructive fruit of
>>>>>>>>> environmental leftists, the Fannie-Freddie cronies in government and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> corrupt liberals in positions of power.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And sadly, this is also the result of George Bush giving into these
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> folks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> all too often in defense of his "new tone." (That worked out well,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> it?) This was helped ironically by John McCain "reaching across the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> aisle"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> to vote against tax cuts and vote for energy restrictions and so on. All
>>>>>>>>> of this was nicely summed up by Mitt Romney when he said that our
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> problems
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> stem from "too many Republicans acting too much like Democrats." Now, if
>>>>>>>>> the polls are anywhere near accurate, we are going to get a taste of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "real
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Democrats acting too much like Marxists" for at least a few years.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mitt was right, but the pundits said McCain was more acceptable to the
>>>>>>>>> moderates. Hmmm. Wonder if a financial turn-around specialist like Mitt
>>>>>>>>> might sell to the moderates now? Just a wild thought from someone not
>>>>>>>>> smart enough to be a beltway pundit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now Joe, as someone whose been there, let me tell you how this works,
>>>>>>>>> though I think you have a good idea. At the end of the year, as an LLC,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> do file taxes with the business profit on my personal returns like many
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> others do as well. And yes, that figure is much bigger than 250
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thousand.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But that's not really MY MONEY to keep. It's how I underpin my business.
>>>>>>>>> When customers disappear or take their time paying bills, I still have
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> pay my employees, rent, suppliers, and countless other expenses. Every
>>>>>>>>> penny that the tax man takes out of that profit is less money that I
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> to carry forward to stay in business for the next year. And if Obama and
>>>>>>>>> Reid and Pelosi take more of this by "raising taxes on the rich" then of
>>>>>>>>> course my business will suffer. And so will all the employees.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is exactly what almost none of those lawyers turned politicians
>>>>>>>>> understand.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But of course, you will have to send tax money into the government, Joe,
>>>>>>>>> because the man who is in charge of spending that money -- Charlie
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rangel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -- damned sure wasn't paying his fair share as we know now. Get out that
>>>>>>>>> checkbook.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Of course, all of this matters only if you can afford to fill your
>>>>>>>>> plumbing vans with gas at gosh knows what price. It could be that the
>>>>>>>>> recession will lower the gas price, but that's not terribly good news
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> you either, since customers don't spend as much money in a recession. I
>>>>>>>>> mean, I hate to burst your bubble, but small business owners are
>>>>>>>>> surrounded by a sea of challenges outside their control and almost all
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> them are caused by liberalism. Government has formed a business firing
>>>>>>>>> squad and it's a doggone circle!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I wish you well, guy. You might just have the genius and persistence to
>>>>>>>>> pull this off. I really do hope so. As for me, I have had enough. I have
>>>>>>>>> fought creeping liberalism and managed more wins than losses over 17
>>>>>>>>> years. We have progressed to where our business, now a corporation,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> big enough so that Obama and his ilk now have their own ideas about
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "what
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> larger businesses can afford" and what "corporations can afford."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well I've got news for him. I cannot afford what they think I can
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> afford,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> so I am breaking her up and giving her away to some key employees. I
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wish
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> them well too. They are like you, tough and smart. Perhaps if they stay
>>>>>>>>> small enough and never can carry forward more than 250 thou to the next
>>>>>>>>> year, they will be allowed to keep their businesses through a downturn.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As for me? I'm outta here.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>>>>>> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
>>>>>>>>> Name: untitled-[2]
>>>>>>>>> Url:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20081017/5a0870b2/attachment.txt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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