[Rhodes22-list] Legal: Ben Please Help

Wed Oct 22 12:22:33 EDT 2008

Herb

You are correct in that at the times we were born in Germany, the German
laws required that all children have the nationality of the father, in both
our cases they were Americans. I assume you were born in the '50's.

I spent another 14 years there, after being born. The intent was to keep the
"Gastarbeiter" like chris Geankopolis from settling in Germany and having
lots of German kids, and then using  those relationships to get german
Citizenship. This changed a number of years ago.

In my case I could accept dual citizenship from the German govt if I were a
resident there, as I have 50% of my rels there, on my mother's side.  If i
applied for it, this would be aproblem as this is not allowed.

On the other hand if they give it to you wihtout having to swear allegiance
to another flag or serve inthe military, there is no overt conflict, merely
an applied one.

My wife is naturalized, and she was not asked to surrender her passport from
here country of origin, and my kids all got passports from both countries
handed to them. As they were born here, the US one was pro forma, and ditto
with Spain, we just showed them the US Birth Certificate and Mom's Spanish
passport.

It is a little bit of don't ask, don't tell.

Andrew

On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:46 AM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>wrote:

> What????!!!!
>
> You don't read each and every word I write, and anxiously wait at your
> computer for the next chance??
>
> I'm truly shocked.
>
> Actually, to tell the truth, I sometimes do get you two confused.
> Imagine if some other poor guy named Herb wanders onto here....
>
>
> ben wrote:
> > Yeah, I can see where that would happen.  We're in the process of getting
> > Louisiana to issue my son a birth certificate for just that reason.  In
> > fairness to the rude lady, you might have also given her a translation.
> > Maybe she would have gone for that, maybe not.  But of course, you were
> > young and didn't know to expect nothing but the laziest attempts to serve
> > from your civil servants.
> >
> > By the way, don't confuse my response from Ben C.  He knows what he's
> > talking about.  I'm guided by experience and a wet finger held up in the
> > wind.  I'm not sure what was supposed to be settled or what the "threats
> to
> > sue" is all about, but I haven't been reading all of your political
> banter
> > either.
> >
> > Ben S.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Herb Parsons
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 17:18
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Legal: Ben Please Help
> >
> > Wow. In my mind, this whole thing was "settled" a long time ago. Now I'm
> > curious.
> >
> > A funny story about this though. When I went to get my marriage license
> > back in '79, I took my birth certificate to the county registrar. She
> > looked at it, and the conversation with something like this:
> >
> > She-Is this your birth certificate
> > Me-Yes ma'm (I was only 22, much more polite at the time)
> > She-It's in German
> > Me-Yes ma'am, I was born in Germany
> > She-But I can't read it.
> > Me-I'm sorry, but it's the only one I have. It was a German hospital,
> > that's what they spoke
> > She-I can't accept this
> > Me-Beg pardon?
> > She-I can't accept this.
> > Me-What do you mean you can't accept this?
> > She-I can't accept this. I can't read it.
> > Me-But ma'am, you can see where it has my name, you can see the word
> > Amerikanischer, you can see how the date matches this other form I have
> > - Report of Live Birth Abroad. THAT's in English
> > She-Yes, but the birth certificate is not (I think that being 22 and
> > still polite aside, had she said "alleged birth certificate" I might
> > have hit her by this time)
> > Me-Ma'am, this is my birth certificate. It is the only one I have. If I
> > ever managed to get another one, it too would be in German, because I
> > was born in Germany. The notion of being "born again" is purely a
> > metaphor, I can't really do it. So, if you would, please go get your
> > supervisor, so I can get my marriage certificate.
> >
> > She did, and the supervisor looked at her like she was crazy. But it did
> > have me frustrated. I worked at a car dealership at that time, and was
> > so ticked at the lady that I backed my demo into a pole. Cost me $250
> > that I couldn't afford.
> >
> > Anyway, probably not nearly as interesting as tossing around threats to
> > sue, but it DID have something to do with not being able to read what's
> > written, so I thought it remotely applicable.
> >
> >
> > ben wrote:
> >
> >> I don't know the legal ins and outs, but you can definitely hold more
> than
> >> one citizenship.  A neighbor and friend of mine is a citizen of both the
> >> United States and Great Britain.  She's a Brit by birth, and you know
> that
> >> as soon as you talk to her, but she's also an American citizen, holding
> >>
> > all
> >
> >> of the rights that I do, other than that I can be President of the U.S.
> >> (Well, there are too many naked or otherwise compromising pictures of me
> >>
> > out
> >
> >> there for that to actually happen.  There's a better chance that there's
> a
> >> constitutional amendment and she gets elected than me ever holding any
> >> public office).
> >>
> >> My son too holds both Russian and U.S. citizenship.  He has passports
> from
> >> both countries.  And if it's allowed with Russians, I feel pretty
> certain
> >> that it's allowed with Germans as well.  But laws change, so the "when"
> >> might have something to do with it.  And maybe rules are different if
> you
> >> were born here and chose to attain citizenship of another country.  Not
> >>
> > sure
> >
> >> on that case.
> >>
> >> Ben S.
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Herb Parsons
> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 16:48
> >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Legal: Ben Please Help
> >>
> >> I think that the whole "dual citizenship" thing is misunderstood by
> many.
> >>
> >> When I turned 18, I was sent documentation asking me to claim a country
> >> for my citizenship (I can't really remember the details, they weren't
> >> very important to me at the time). I was born to American parents, both
> >> legal adults (at the time, 21 was the age of majority), one of whom was
> >> stationed on an American Army base, but I was actually born in a
> >> civilian hospital.Seeing as how I left Germany at the ripe old age of 13
> >> months, when I was 18 it seemed to make sense to me to claim American as
> >> my citizenship (I really wanted to vote in the next election, in '86). I
> >> DID toy with the idea, for a few brief moments, of claiming German
> >> citizenship, just for the notoriety (I was 18, single, and realized that
> >> almost ANY "difference" could get you talking to a girl), but even at
> >> that young age, I figured the pitfalls outweighed the benefits (but
> >> then, who knows for sure?).
> >>
> >> I was then under the impression that one could not have dual citizenship
> >> if one of the countries was the US. I've since though, have had several
> >> people tell me that they had a similar experience, and others insist
> >> that they hold dual citizenship. I've not seen any consistency in the
> >> other countries involved, in other words, I couldn't confidently say you
> >> CAN hold dual citizenship with the US and Canada, but not with the US
> >> and Germany, as I've seen claims both ways.
> >>
> >> I'd say that it would be interesting to hear from an immigration lawyer
> >> on it sometime.
> >>
> >>
> >> Bill Effros wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Ben,
> >>>
> >>> My mother was born in NYC in 1917 to Dutch parents with a business in
> >>> the United States.  After WWI she went to Holland with her parents, and
> >>> enjoyed the benefits of Dutch citizenship.
> >>>
> >>> In 1938, before her 21st birthday, her parents arranged for her to
> >>> return to the United States to claim her American Citizenship, which
> she
> >>> would otherwise have  lost, owing to her exercise of Dutch Citizenship.
> >>> She traveled to the United States on a US Passport, and remained here
> as
> >>> a United States citizen.
> >>>
> >>> It was my understanding that she was not eligible to run for President
> >>> of the United States because she was a Dutch citizen as a child and had
> >>> to reclaim her American citizenship, and thus became a "naturalized"
> >>> rather than "native born" citizen.
> >>>
> >>> Do I have this wrong?  Is there still a chance for my mother to become
> >>> President?
> >>>
> >>> Bill Effros
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>
> >>
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>
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