[Rhodes22-list] Political reply to Ben C. and David B

[David Bradley]

So, Ed, by your definition we have been living under a Socialist
system for what, the past 100 years?  I really don't think it's
anyone's intent, even Nancy Pelosi (to state an extreme), to create a
single standard of living...

Dave


On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 5:17 AM, Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net> wrote:
>
> Ben,
>
> Your analysis of my comments is O.K.  Part of the issue is that I think what
> I want to say much faster than I type.  Even when I proof read what I say, I
> often read what I say as what I was thinking and miss needed corrections and
> whole phrases.
>
> Secondly, the way you and I use certain terms is not the same.  You apply
> specific meanings with historical perspective and I apply more general
> meanings than are being used in current circulation on the street.  The
> terms used in the 1930's and 1950's have evolved to different usage in
> current literature and discussion.
>
> Often, those changed meanings have been intentional by the authors or
> speakers to obscure their intent.  Often the terms used today are just
> evolutionary usage of a term.  I will have to try to keep to historical
> generic terms rather that the pointed ones used elsewhere on the street to
> describe concepts.
>
> David said, "Ed, et al., a question for you.  What do you call it today when
> we have a progressive tax rate?  Are we living in a Socialist system
> already, by your definition?"  The answer is yes. I say yes because of the
> intent, see below.
>
> David said, "I do not view a marginal shift in the progressive tax rates as
> Socialist…"  But it is.  It uses the power of government to collect money (a
> form of property) to give to others, again see intent of use below.
>
> Are there legitimate reasons to have a progressive tax or taxes at all?  Of
> course, the Constitution says, "provide for the common defense, promote
> general welfare," and it further states that "Congress shall have power:  To
> lay and collect taxes..."  It originally set method and limits, but that was
> changed thru amendments and court interpretations of that amendment.
>
> A contemporary definition of socialism is "a theory of social organization
> based on government ownership, management, and control of the means of
> production and the distribution of exchange."  I suggest aspects of that
> definition are not accurate in today's world. The definition was written by
> a contemporary media person.  As such it obscures or fails to recognize
> other aspects of the term such as economic, political and common usage.
>
> Socialism is a term developed from Marx, Engels and others writings on
> 'political economy'.  A contemporary definition is, "The form of government
> was one where there was no separation between civil society and the state
> and which directly corresponded to the 'essence of socialized man."  And the
> definition continues, "Work is shared equally throughout the nation
> according to ability, and everyone has equal rights, standard of living and
> class."
>
> The equalizing of 'standard of living and class' thru means of taxation and
> government programs is where the use of the term 'socialist policies' is
> being derived from in the current political debate.  The above definitions
> are on the street being used to interchangeably to describe Socialist,
> Progressives, M'ist, C'ist and other fallows.
>
> Current journalist, writers and commentators have comingled the terms.  That
> is the way it is on the street.  The listeners or readers have to apply
> current generic definitions to understand what is said.
>
> The intent of the taxation and distribution today has become to 'equally
> share the standard of living", without regard to contribution, risk, etc.
> This is called Socialism, etc., on the street in 2008.
>
> Ed K
> Greenville, SC, USA
>
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> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Political-reply-to-Ben-C.-and-David-B-tp20129731p20129731.html
> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
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-- 
David Bradley
+1.206.234.3977
dwbrad at gmail.com