[Rhodes22-list] POLITICAL Hey Plumber Joe: Been There, Done That

Thu Oct 23 15:40:36 EDT 2008

elle,

It always bugged me that school districts are required to pay for the free
lunches (and breakfasts) for the "po."  Why should food be part of the
school's budget?  If you don't have the money for your kids' food then you
should be paying with your food stamps or WIC or whatever.  Except I know
why.  If the schools didn't buy the food, the kids would go hungry.  Sad
scenario.

Slim

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 2:29 PM, elle <watermusic38 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Herb,
>
> this brings up an interesting discussion I had recently with a successful
> small business  owner in this area who is very active with volunteerism and
> youth. She had taught (not in a traditional edu setting but through social
> services) various types of sex ed & living skills....
> I had taught school for @ 35 years...we were discussing criteria for
> welfare, social services, free lunch, etc.
>
> It was decided that using family income was a poor measure of qualification
> for bennies...what should set the bar are the following:
>
> "1. How many cell phone plans are in use in your household? How many
> minutes for each plan?
> 2. Square footage of your abode.
> 3. How many large screen TV's are in your abode?
> 4.How many licensed drivers in your home?
> 5. How many vehicles are on your property? Give make, model, year, and
> monthly payment for each.
> 6. How many cases of beer or 5ths of booze are consumed weekly by your
> household?
> 7. How many children are in the home? How many fathers are represented by
> these children? You lose benefits for the 2nd thru subsequent children of
> different fathers.
>
> " Your monthly benefit will be adjusted by SUBTRACTING the cost of the
> above items from your welfare check. If you didn't have all this crap you
> can't afford, you could pay your own bills.
>
> When do I get elected?
>
> elle
>
> BTW..this was meant to be equally offensive to anyone fulfilling the above
> criteria. No race, color, creed requirement.
>
> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.
>
> 1992 Rhodes 22   Recyc '06  "WaterMusic"   (Lady in Red)
>
>
> --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] POLITICAL Hey Plumber Joe: Been There, Done
> That
> > To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 8:22 PM
> > Brad!!
> >
> > I want to see if I'm completely clear on this:
> > You're in the 99th percentile as far as monetary wealth
> > goes.
> > You and foreign born wife accomplished this in a single
> > generation.
> > And you're unwilling to share your quickly found wealth
> > with those poor
> > folks that have struggled for 3 or 4 generations to break
> > free from
> > their poverty, and now only ask that they have a few
> > necessities in life
> > like calbe for their color TV's and cell phones.
> >
> > I'm sure there's some racist motivation in your
> > refusal to share the wealth.
> >
> >
> > Brad Haslett wrote:
> > > Herb,
> > >
> > > Fan and I are BARELY in the 99% percentile and
> > we're not rich. She
> > > arrived here in 1989 shortly after Tienanmen Square
> > with two suit
> > > cases and $50 US money and I met her ten years later
> > after her second
> > > graduate degree and third job.  We struck a bond
> > because after decades
> > > of living a "macroni and cheese lifestyle",
> > maybe a "rice and noodles"
> > > lifestyle would be more appropriate - we found
> > ourselves on the path
> > > to success. Now we're being told that we're
> > guilty of something.
> > >
> > > It's always good to go home to Brownstown,
> > Illinois.  The town has
> > > grown, it was 650 people when I grew-up there, now
> > it's up to 700
> > > people.
> > >
> > > I'll get back to you tomorrow on how things have
> > changed.  I'm glad to
> > > be back home.  Mom and Dad are always good for
> > inspiration.
> > >
> > > We'll survive!
> > >
> > > Brad
> > >
> > > On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 3:31 PM, Herb Parsons
> > <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> What Obama and his ilk don't understand is
> > that there are people that
> > >> recognize right and wrong no matter who it's
> > directed at.
> > >>
> > >> I'm in the 95% that would get a tax cut under
> > Obama's plan.
> > >>
> > >> I don't like it.
> > >>
> > >> I don't like it because it takes away from the
> > other 5% to give to me. I
> > >> hope someday to be in that 5%, and I wouldn't
> > want that done to me.
> > >>
> > >> It's all part of that old fashioned notion of
> > do unto others as you
> > >> would have them do unto you. I don't want
> > anyone taking money from me
> > >> and saying "I'm going to give this to
> > someone else because they have
> > >> less than you."
> > >>
> > >> Because I don't want it done to me, I
> > don't want it done to anyone else.
> > >>
> > >> But, I realize I'm a bit extreme.
> > >>
> > >> Brad Haslett wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Andrew,
> > >>>
> > >>> Pay attention here, Joe the Plumber is not
> > doing mid-night repairs on
> > >>> peoples shitters.  He is working under someone
> > else's license. If you
> > >>> know plumbing and plumbers then you know that
> > it takes a seven year
> > >>> apprenticeship.  How else does one become a
> > plumber?  So did Joe ask
> > >>> an invalid question because he didn't
> > identify himself as "Joe the
> > >>> Apprentice Plumber"? The latest attack on
> > Joe was from The One
> > >>> himself, "how many plumbers do you know
> > that make more than $250,000 a
> > >>> year?".  You should know, lot's of
> > plumbing contractors make that much
> > >>> and more.
> > >>>
> > >>> The answer, "we need to share the
> > wealth" is what is disturbing.  You
> > >>> can't mathematically give 95% of the
> > people "tax cuts" when the bottom
> > >>> 38% don't pay taxes.  Even if you could, I
> > wouldn't be in the 95% and
> > >>> as Tip O'neil used to say, "all
> > politics is local". If almost 40% of
> > >>> voters have the chance to vote themselves a
> > raise, they will.  You now
> > >>> only need a small percentage of party faithful
> > to vote your way and,
> > >>> PRESTO!, we've arrived at the tipping
> > point our founding fathers
> > >>> worried about.
> > >>>
> > >>> The truth of the matter is, we don't know
> > what Obama will do, his
> > >>> positions have shifted weekly.  As a community
> > organizer he helped
> > >>> shake down companies out of money.  As a grant
> > administrator he
> > >>> distributed monies to organizations based on
> > race and radical ideas,
> > >>> not sound education principles.  As a State
> > Senator he either voted
> > >>> "present" if it was a controversial
> > issue or "Yea" if it involved
> > >>> funneling money to Chicago cronies for
> > public/private enterprises,
> > >>> most of which failed.  As a US Senator he
> > followed the party line 97%
> > >>> of the time and wrote no major piece of
> > legislation.
> > >>>
> > >>> There isn't a whole lot in his record of
> > late to make judgements on
> > >>> other than words.  According to Obama, words
> > mean something.  So, I
> > >>> guess that when he plans to raise taxes and
> > engage in restraint of
> > >>> trade he means it.  Let's hope that works
> > out better than it did for
> > >>> Herbert Hoover.
> > >>>
> > >>> Maybe this is what Dr. Johnson was thinking
> > when he coined the phrase,
> > >>> "it is the triumph of hope over
> > experience".
> > >>>
> > >>> Brad
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 4:37 PM, Andrew
> > Collins
> > >>> <sailingvesselcarmen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> Brad
> > >>>>
> > >>>> What was your point exactly, Brad? You
> > made mine quite nicely, thank you.
> > >>>> You are having trouble focusing.
> > >>>> I am very well versed in plumbing, and
> > have seen just how badly unlicensed
> > >>>> plumbers can screw things up. Some of them
> > even think shit can flow uphill,
> > >>>> and I have the photos to prove it.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I tell all my intern engineers the first
> > rule of construction is "shit flows
> > >>>> downhill", and have been telling them
> > for 30 years.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> My firm can plumb anything you like, we
> > are licensed in 4 states. We abide
> > >>>> by the law of the land, as do you.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Get licensed Joe!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Andrew
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 4:56 PM, Brad
> > Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Andrew,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> God bless your immature heart.  How
> > the hell do you get experience?
> > >>>>> You started out shitting in your
> > pants.  Someone had to help you find
> > >>>>> your way to the John.  Attacking Joe
> > the Plumber because he doesn't
> > >>>>> have a license is silly.  Allow me to
> > let you in on a little secret
> > >>>>> here.  I work in the most regulated
> > profession in the world.  I get
> > >>>>> tested at at minimum every six months
> > (I'm an examiner).  I get a
> > >>>>> physical every six months.  Every day
> > at work I'm subject to drug
> > >>>>> testing.  Every day I'm subject to
> > a random government oversight test.
> > >>>>>  I challenge you to find a profession
> > that has a bigger microscope
> > >>>>> focused on it.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> You are worried about a plumber?
> > Here's a clue kid!  Shit flows
> > >>>>> downhill.  Plumbing is serious
> > business.  It takes 7 years of
> > >>>>> experience to get a plumbers license.
> > You have to be smart to get
> > >>>>> one.  But don't you cast
> > aspersions on someone who is working on a
> > >>>>> plumbing license or someone who is
> > aspiring one.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Most of the PhD's I know
> > couldn't pour piss out of a boot with the
> > >>>>> instructions printed on the heel.
> > Never underestimate the common
> > >>>>> wisdom of someone who knows the
> > direction of shit given gravity or
> > >>>>> "shit from shinola".
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Brad
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 3:12 PM,
> > Andrew Collins
> > >>>>> <sailingvesselcarmen at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Dear pdgrand nospam:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> awful post
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> " ... when decades of liberal
> > energy policy came home to roost "?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> This post isn't worthy of even
> > this lowly slug-fest we call a sailing
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> forum.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> And whaddabout the subject line?
> > Ed where are you?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Can we have a new rule: you have
> > to write it yourself not cut and paste
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> any
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> old uncorroborated opinion that
> > oozes across the web?
> > >>>>>> And if Joe is an unlicensed
> > plumber, he is just that. He should be
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> licensed,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> take the tests, go to trade
> > school. Do unlicensed pilots fly? Do
> > >>>>>> unregistered engineers practice,
> > do unlicensed beauticians give facials?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> No,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> they don't
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> This unlicensed tradesman is
> > manipulating gas installations, connections
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> the public water supply,
> > connectiions to public sewer systems, etc. This
> > >>>>>> work brings with it
> > responsibilities that every municipality requires be
> > >>>>>> satisfied by obtaining a plumbing
> > license before being allowed to this
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> kind
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> of work.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Andrew
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 2:37 PM,
> > <pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> October 17, 2008
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Hey Plumber Joe: Been There,
> > Done That
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> By C. Edmund
> > Wright<http://www.americanthinker.com/c_edmund_wright/>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> God love you Joe. Bless your
> > heart Joe.  You, and people like you, are
> > >>>>>>> what makes the country work.
> > You make the country great. You get it --
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> you
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> act on it -- and you enrich
> > the lives of your family and your friends
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> and
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> your communities and your
> > charities as a result.
> > >>>>>>> But I think what I should say
> > now is "God help you Joe."  Look, 16 plus
> > >>>>>>> years ago I was where you are
> > now. And I must tell you  if Obama wins, I
> > >>>>>>> am pulling the plug in a few
> > months. I am out. I have had it.  I am
> > >>>>>>> preparing to destroy almost
> > 100 jobs and lower my tax bracket and I
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> can't
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> wait.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Consider: 16 years ago I was
> > statistically in poverty, but I had dreams
> > >>>>>>> and a plan. At the time, the
> > remnants of Reaganomics still set the
> > >>>>>>> economic tone and a fired up
> > Newt Gingrich was forcing conservatism on
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Clinton White House every time
> > Bill and Hillary tried to move left.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>  There
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> were actually politicians who
> > praised business owners and business in
> > >>>>>>> general.  Against that
> > backdrop, I've had a pretty good run. It's been
> > >>>>>>> extremely challenging and the
> > move up was not a straight line, but I am
> > >>>>>>> better off than I was 16 years
> > ago. And 8 years ago. And 4 years ago.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> And
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> so are a lot of folks who have
> > been on this ride with me.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> But Joe, I am not better off
> > than I was just 2 years ago. That's when
> > >>>>>>> decades of liberal energy
> > policy came home to roost and four dollar gas
> > >>>>>>> took several hundred thousands
> > from my bottom line faster than I could
> > >>>>>>> possibly react.  That same gas
> > price slammed my customers -- and my
> > >>>>>>> customer's customers --
> > forcing our company into a vice of rapidly
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> rising
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> costs and rapidly dropping
> > revenues. Oh, and for fun, slower payments
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> from
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> our customers.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> That started the ripple
> > through the sub prime mortgage industry, and we
> > >>>>>>> have all seen the unraveling
> > of our financial system which was more or
> > >>>>>>> less totally underpinned by
> > real estate "values." Those assumed
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> valuations
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> were the basis for any number
> > of derivatives and credit swaps and so on.
> > >>>>>>> Well, forget all that Wall
> > Street talk. To you and me it means employees
> > >>>>>>> are more desperate for money,
> > customers are less willing to buy, slower
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> pay and banks less willing to
> > lend. It certainly means whatever homes
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> and
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> 401K's you have are worth
> > less too which makes your bank even less
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> anxious
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> to lend to your business. It
> > is the main street carnage of "unfettered
> > >>>>>>> government" onto small
> > business. It is the destructive fruit of
> > >>>>>>> environmental leftists, the
> > Fannie-Freddie cronies in government and
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> other
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> corrupt liberals in positions
> > of power.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> And sadly, this is also the
> > result of George Bush giving into these
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> folks
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> all too often in defense of
> > his "new tone." (That worked out well,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> didn't
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> it?) This was helped
> > ironically by John McCain "reaching across the
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> aisle"
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> to vote against tax cuts and
> > vote for energy restrictions and so on. All
> > >>>>>>> of this was nicely summed up
> > by Mitt Romney when he said that our
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> problems
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> stem from "too many
> > Republicans acting too much like Democrats." Now, if
> > >>>>>>> the polls are anywhere near
> > accurate, we are going to get a taste of
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> "real
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Democrats acting too much like
> > Marxists" for at least a few years.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Mitt was right, but the
> > pundits said McCain was more acceptable to the
> > >>>>>>> moderates. Hmmm. Wonder if a
> > financial turn-around specialist like Mitt
> > >>>>>>> might sell to the moderates
> > now? Just a wild thought from someone not
> > >>>>>>> smart enough to be a beltway
> > pundit.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Now Joe, as someone whose been
> > there, let me tell you how this works,
> > >>>>>>> though I think you have a good
> > idea.  At the end of the year, as an LLC,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> I
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> do file taxes with the
> > business profit on my personal returns like many
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> of
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> others do as well.  And yes,
> > that figure is much bigger than 250
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> thousand.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> But that's not really MY
> > MONEY to keep. It's how I underpin my business.
> > >>>>>>> When customers disappear or
> > take their time paying bills, I still have
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> pay my employees, rent,
> > suppliers, and countless other expenses. Every
> > >>>>>>> penny that the tax man takes
> > out of that profit is less money that I
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> have
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> to carry forward to stay in
> > business for the next year. And if Obama and
> > >>>>>>> Reid and Pelosi take more of
> > this by "raising taxes on the rich" then of
> > >>>>>>> course my business will
> > suffer. And so will all the employees.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> This is exactly what almost
> > none of those lawyers turned politicians
> > >>>>>>> understand.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> But of course, you will have
> > to send tax money into the government, Joe,
> > >>>>>>> because the man who is in
> > charge of spending that money -- Charlie
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> Rangel
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> -- damned sure wasn't
> > paying his fair share as we know now. Get out that
> > >>>>>>> checkbook.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Of course, all of this matters
> > only if you can afford to fill your
> > >>>>>>> plumbing vans with gas at gosh
> > knows what price. It could be that the
> > >>>>>>> recession will lower the gas
> > price, but that's not terribly good news
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> for
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> you either, since customers
> > don't spend as much money in a recession. I
> > >>>>>>> mean, I hate to burst your
> > bubble, but small business owners are
> > >>>>>>> surrounded by a sea of
> > challenges outside their control and almost all
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> of
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> them are caused by liberalism.
> > Government has formed a business firing
> > >>>>>>> squad and it's a doggone
> > circle!
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I wish you well, guy.  You
> > might just have the genius and persistence to
> > >>>>>>> pull this off. I really do
> > hope so. As for me, I have had enough. I have
> > >>>>>>> fought creeping liberalism and
> > managed more wins than losses over 17
> > >>>>>>> years. We have progressed to
> > where  our business,  now a corporation,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>  is
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> big enough so that Obama and
> > his ilk now have their own ideas about
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> "what
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> larger businesses can
> > afford" and what "corporations can afford."
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Well I've got news for
> > him. I cannot afford what they think I can
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> afford,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> so I am breaking her up and
> > giving her away to some key employees.  I
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> wish
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> them well too. They are like
> > you, tough and smart. Perhaps if they stay
> > >>>>>>> small enough and never can
> > carry forward more than 250 thou to the next
> > >>>>>>> year, they will be allowed to
> > keep their businesses through a downturn.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> As for me? I'm outta here.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> -------------- next part
> > --------------
> > >>>>>>> An embedded and
> > charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
> > >>>>>>> Name: untitled-[2]
> > >>>>>>> Url:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> >
> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20081017/5a0870b2/attachment.txt
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
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