[Rhodes22-list] How Much for the White House?

Sat Oct 25 03:10:35 EDT 2008

Ben,

This dog WILL hunt, unfortunately, the hunt doesn't begin in earnest
until after the election is over.

Here's as good an explanation as you'll find anywhere-

http://www.nationaljournal.com/njonline/no_20081024_9865.php

Internal security?  That Sir, is precisely the problem.  The Obama
campaign turned off all the default security measures.

Chocolate Baby Jesus would have made a great Navy pilot, ie, "the book
doesn't say you can't, therefore you can!"

Brad

On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 12:41 AM, Benjamin Cittadino
<bigben65 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> PD;
>
> I agree with Steve and David, but have some additional thoughts of my own.
>
> I find it perverse that anyone would intentionally misrepresent themselves
> in making a political contribution, experiment or not.
>
> I hope you don't try to rob a bank to test the competence of the FBI?
>
> There is no evidence that the Obama campaign would have kept any illegal or
> improper contributions. Often improper credit card charges are initially
> accepted, only to be corrected and rejected later.  It happened to me when
> someone got my card #.  The `charge appeared initially on my account, then
> was corrected later with no contact from me because of the company's own
> internal security.
>
> I don't know the ins and outs of the mechanics here but somewhere, perhaps
> on another thread, I think Mike did some pretty good analysis.
>
> My reaction is, "this dog won't hunt."
>
> Ben C.
>
>
>
> Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
>>
>> Dave,
>>
>> What McCain website did you use?  McCain is not allowed to take
>> donations so it must have been the RNC committee fund you contributed
>> to.
>>
>> The speculation is that the AVS system was turned off largely to
>> accept foreign money.
>>
>> Again, Pam Geller has been the lead on this for months and I can send
>> you dozens of links and Obama FEC documents if you like. You'd have to
>> be incompetent or crooked to allow what has happened with their
>> donation records.  You decide.
>>
>> The New York Times couldn't ignore it any longer (article attached).
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> -----------------
>>
>> October 23, 2008, 6:02 pm
>> Donor Patrol: Obama's Online Site Accepts More Fakes
>> By Michael Luo
>>
>> Erika Franzi, a 36-year-old mother of four, had been following recent
>> news reports examining how people using obviously fake names had made
>> thousands of dollars in contributions to Senator Barack Obama's
>> presidential campaign without being detected.
>>
>> So this afternoon, sitting in her family room at her home in
>> Weaverville, N.C., while her two-year-old was watching "Sesame
>> Street," Ms. Franzi got on her laptop to conduct an experiment. She
>> used her debit card to make a $15 donation to Mr. Obama's campaign.
>>
>> Ms. Franzi, who described herself as conservative and preferring
>> Senator John McCain over Mr. Obama, used the name "Della Ware" and
>> entered an address of 12345 No Way in Far Far Away, DE 78954. Under
>> employer, she listed: Americans Against Obama; for occupation, she
>> typed in: Founder.
>>
>> To her surprise, she said, her contribution went through in "fewer
>> than three seconds." Then, in order to be fair, she repeated the
>> experiment on Mr. McCain's Web site, entering the exact same
>> information. Three times, she said, she received the message: "We have
>> found errors in the information that you submitted. Please review the
>> information below and try again."
>>
>> Ms. Franzi's experiment would not necessarily be notable, except it
>> appears that many others are doing the same thing. Power Line, a
>> conservative political blog, reported a reader had successfully made
>> donations under the names Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein and Bill
>> Ayers. While those experiences could not be immediately verified, Ms.
>> Franzi sent The Caucus a screenshot from her bank account that showed
>> a contribution to Obama for America going through at 1:02 p.m.
>>
>> To be fair to the Obama campaign, officials there have said much of
>> their checking for fraud occurs after the transactions have already
>> occurred. When they find something wrong, they then refund the amount.
>>
>> But a New York Times analysis of campaign finance records looking for
>> obvious anomalies in donor information quickly found more than a dozen
>> contributors to Mr. Obama using obviously fictitious name. This was a
>> tiny fraction of Mr. Obama's donor pool, but it appeared from the
>> analysis that Mr. McCain had far fewer apparent fake names among his
>> donors.
>>
>> Unlike Mr. Obama, Mr. McCain provides on his Web site a searchable
>> database of all of his donors, including those who fall below the $200
>> threshold that the Federal Election Commission requires campaigns to
>> itemize in their reports. The political blogger Marc Ambinder recently
>> reported that searches of this database turned up seven contributions
>> from someone named Jesus II of Las Vegas giving a total of $851 to Mr.
>> McCain.
>>
>> The Obama campaign pointed out that a search of the name "Anonymous,
>> Anonymous" also turns up pages of contributions to the McCain
>> campaign, including more than two dozen that exceed $200 but for some
>> reason do not appear in F.E.C. records. It should be pointed out that
>> campaigns are permitted to accept donations of up to $50 in cash or
>> anonymously. There are other odd donors that appear in searches of the
>> McCain database but fall below the $200 threshold, including "The Gun
>> Shop" from Hood River, Oregon., who contributed $100 and "Adorable
>> Manabat" from Winnetka, Calif., who gave $200.
>>
>> Other news reports have surfaced recently of people discovering credit
>> card charges they had not made to the Obama campaign. And The
>> Washington Post reported this week the tale of Mary T. Biskup of
>> Manchester, Missouri, who received a call recently from the Obama
>> campaign asking if she had donated $174,800 to the campaign. Ms.
>> Biskup said she had not and told the Post it appeared someone had used
>> her name but not her credit card number, because nothing had showed up
>> on her own bills.
>>
>> The Obama campaign said it quickly spotted the donations ostensibly
>> made by Ms. Biskup and began looking into it right away, contacting
>> her and then charging back the money to the credit card.
>>
>> The main problem, according to Ms. Franzi, seems to be that Mr.
>> Obama's Web site apparently does not require that the donor's
>> information match the information on the credit card making the
>> contribution, while Mr. McCain's seems to have stricter standards.
>>
>> Ms. Franzi insisted her experiment had nothing to do with her being a
>> McCain supporter. "Nothing that I did today would have turned out any
>> different if I were an Obama supporter. I would be equally disgusted
>> with my own candidate for doing the same thing."
>>
>> Nevertheless, a half hour after her "fake" contribution to Mr. Obama
>> went through, Ms. Franzi, who had made no donations to either
>> candidate, felt compelled to perform her ablutions. She contributed
>> $15 to Mr. McCain.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 6:54 PM, David Bradley <dwbrad at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I made a contriubtion to the McCain site with an improper address and
>>> it went through just fine.  We'll see if it hits my credit card.
>>>
>>> The Obama site asked people to certify that I was authorized to give
>>> the money, as did the McCain site.  It didn't ask for the secuirty
>>> code on my card, but it's not the only e-commerce site that doesn't.
>>>
>>> Is it your contention that this is a conspiracy of Obama and/or his
>>> campaign, to allow foreign interests to contribute and that he will
>>> somehow be indebted?
>>>
>>> If true, throw him in jail and throw away the key. But I don't believe
>>> it's true.  I don't believe in the conspiracy theory.
>>>
>>> I have no problem at all with Obama forgoing public financing and
>>> raising a ton of money.  I have no problem with him changing his mind
>>> on that topic. I think it's interesting to see people voting with
>>> their wallets.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 10:44 AM,  <pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net> wrote:
>>>> Brad,
>>>>
>>>> I've intentionally waited awhile before posting on this subject.  I
>>>> wanted
>>>> to hear specifically what the Obama supporters had to say on the
>>>> subject.
>>>> Is it just me or have they been strangely silent about this?  I think
>>>> this
>>>> is a major issue because it speaks of the character of the man and his
>>>> campaign (along with other issues he prefers to skirt or not respond
>>>> to).
>>>> Why is no one on this list from the left leaning persuasion addressing
>>>> or
>>>> speaking up about this?  Is it a non-issue for them?
>>>>
>>>> Ben C., you're a thoughtful voice for that side.  If I've missed one of
>>>> your or other's posts on this subject, please forgive me.  If you would,
>>>> please re-send it.  If not, please let me hear your opinion on this.
>>>> Specifically, how can this not matter to you?
>>>>
>>>> Even though I won't vote for him, I honestly and respectfully want to
>>>> believe in him because he may be my next President.  So far, I'm having
>>>> a
>>>> hard time believing he is anything but a dirty, sleazy, smooth-talking,
>>>> corupt politician.  I think Brad's right.  He's got a lot of people in
>>>> this country fooled.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>>> The 2008 Presidential campaign will go down in history as the most
>>>>> corrupt in our nation, ever. What we're witnessing here is something
>>>>> you'd expect in some third-world banana republic. Remember the pledge
>>>>> to take public campaign funds?  Vanished down the memory hole like so
>>>>> many incriminating characters from the past.  Here's the latest
>>>>> example-
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> October 23, 2008  Posted by Scott at 6:52 AM
>>>>>
>>>>> We've previously noted the gusher of illegal campaign contributions
>>>>> flowing into the Obama campaign from contributors such as "Doodad Pro"
>>>>> and "Good Will." More recently, incidents have been reported in which
>>>>> people have seen credit card charges surface suggesting they donated
>>>>> to Barack Obama when they did not. Matthew Mosk and Sarah Cohen noted
>>>>> one such incident earlier this week:
>>>>>
>>>>>     Now comes the story of Mary T. Biskup, of Manchester, Missouri.
>>>>> Biskup got a call recently from the Obama campaign, which was trying
>>>>> to figure out why she donated $174,800 to the campaign -- well over
>>>>> the contribution limit of $2,300.
>>>>>
>>>>>     The answer she gave them was simple. "That's an error."
>>>>>
>>>>> Is the Obama campaign knowingly receiving illegal contributions?
>>>>> Yesterday one of our readers reported the results of an experiment he
>>>>> conducted:
>>>>>
>>>>>     I've read recent reports of the Obama campaign receiving donations
>>>>> from dubious names and foreign locales and it got me wondering: How is
>>>>> this possible?
>>>>>
>>>>>     I run a small Internet business and when I process credit cards
>>>>> I'm required to make sure the name on the card exactly matches the
>>>>> name of the customer making the purchase. Also, the purchaser's
>>>>> address must match that of the cardholders. If these don't match, then
>>>>> the payment isn't approved. Period. So how is it possible that the
>>>>> Obama campaign could receive donations from fictional people and
>>>>> places? Well, I decided to do a little experiment. I went to the Obama
>>>>> campaign website and entered the following:
>>>>>
>>>>>     Name: John Galt
>>>>>     Address: 1957 Ayn Rand Lane
>>>>>     City: Galts Gulch
>>>>>     State: CO
>>>>>     Zip: 99999
>>>>>
>>>>>     Then I checked the box next to $15 and entered my actual credit
>>>>> card number and expiration date (it didn't ask for the 3-didgit code
>>>>> on the back of the card) and it took me to the next page and... "Your
>>>>> donation has been processed. Thank you for your generous gift."
>>>>>
>>>>>     This simply should not, and could not, happen in any business or
>>>>> any campaign that is honestly trying to vet it's donors. Also, I don't
>>>>> see how this could possibly happen without the collusion of the credit
>>>>> card companies. They simply wouldn't allow any business to process,
>>>>> potentially, hundreds of millions in credit card transactions where
>>>>> the name on the card doesn't match the purchasers name.
>>>>>
>>>>>     In short, with the system set up as it is by the Obama camp, an
>>>>> individual could donate unlimited amounts of money by simply making up
>>>>> fake names and addresses. And Obama is doing his best to facilitate
>>>>> this fraud. This is truly scandalous.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our reader was not yet done. He tried the experiment on the McCain
>>>>> site: "I tried the exact same thing at the McCain site and it didn't
>>>>> allow the transaction." He then repeated the experiment at the Obama
>>>>> site:
>>>>>
>>>>>     I went back to the Obama site and made three additional donations
>>>>> using the names Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein and Bill Ayers, all
>>>>> with different addresses. All the transactions went through using the
>>>>> same credit card. I saved screenshots of the transactions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our reader reports, incidentally, that he was using his MasterCard for
>>>>> the contributions. We submit this report in the spirit of inquiry and
>>>>> would especially appreciate hearing from readers who can illuminate
>>>>> how credit card procedures might (or might not) allow this to happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> UPDATE: Readers have replicated the experiment reported in this post.
>>>>> We will have to revisit the issue tonight or tomorrow and appreciate
>>>>> any information you can provide in the meantime.
>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> David Bradley
>>> +1.206.234.3977
>>> dwbrad at gmail.com
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>>>
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>
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