[Rhodes22-list] Ben C - what I hear...

Brad Haslett flybrad at gmail.com
Sat Oct 25 19:23:01 EDT 2008 

Ed,

Fan and I had a "state of family finances" summit this afternoon.
We've had to discuss finances more often in the last three years than
we did in the first seven because of my construction company and
airplane, but, we've sacrificed and have almost paid off all the
business debt. Our home is a roof over our head and we don't think of
it as an investment, so its value at any point in time is of little
concern. Our "real" financial investments have lost 30 to 40 per cent
in the last few weeks.  This afternoon we had a "do we despair or not"
conversation.

We decided, NOT!

My path was a little easier than hers.  Dad was never unemployed for
long despite only having had an 8th grade education, and usually some
employer would find him before he could find another employer based on
his reputation for hard work and exemplary ethics.

Fan's parents went through several cycles of being "good people", then
"bad people", then "bad but necessary", and so on.  Her family's
struggle was the more difficult path.

Now comes a candidate who's going to "put a chicken in every pot".  I
see a classic "tax and spend" candidate who will have a short-lived
political cycle if people are silly enough to give him the
opportunity.

Fan's premonitions are far worse given her personal experience.

As a pilot, I preach to my students to keep a "hip pocket alternate".
Our retirement has been delayed at least 5 years by this economic
downturn, in the US that is.

Now, if I could just come up with a plan for my kids. Permanent
serfdom to the State?  Well, it worked for China and the Soviet Union
for decades as long as you didn't mind waiting in long lines. They
finally quit that foolishness.  People get the government they
deserve.

Brad



On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 6:01 PM, Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net> wrote:
>
> Ben,
>
> I am sorry but what I hear is Lenin, Hitler and Jim Baker (evangelist)...
>
> I hear somebody who is glib and fluid with words.  But I ask what do the
> words mean?
>
> The words I hear are straight out of writers of Marxism , such words may
> inspire, but not me.  I believe in freedom and democracy, not the false god
> of Marxist theology.  Why do I use the words false god of Marxist theology?
>
> The revolutionary heart of Marxism is a simple conviction: It is necessary
> to change the world.  This conviction is the "vision of man's mind
> displacing God as the creative intelligence of the world. It is the vision
> of man's liberated mind, by the sole force of its rational intelligence,
> redirecting man's destiny and reorganizing man's life and the world. It is
> the vision of man, once more the central figure of the Creation, not because
> God made man in His image, but because man's mind makes him the most
> intelligent of the animals." Whittaker Chambers
>
> Why do I say this relates to Barak Obama?  It is very important to evaluate
> not how Obama appears but what he factually stands for.  Obama's political
> ideology is found in his words and his mentors.
>
> Obama states that he is a 'Progressive' and stands for change.  A current
> analysis of the word  Progressive shows that it's current meaning to be
> analogous to Marxism.  The same system of political economy that gave us
> Lenin, Hitler, Castro, etc.  It means government control of the political
> economy.
>
> And the definition that I gave of Marxism:  Socialism is a term developed
> from Marx, Engels and others writings on 'political economy'.  A
> contemporary definition is, "The form of government was one where there was
> no separation between civil society and the state and which directly
> corresponded to the 'essence of socialized man.'  And the definition
> continues, "Work is shared equally throughout the nation according to
> ability, and everyone has equal rights, standard of living and class."
>
> The equalizing of 'standard of living and class' thru means of taxation and
> government programs is where the use of the term 'socialist policies' is
> being derived from in the current political debate.
>
> The above definitions are on the street being used to interchangeably to
> describe Socialist, Progressives, M'ist, C'ist and other fallows.  Current
> journalist, writers and commentators have comingled the terms.  That is the
> way it is on the street in 2008.
>
> The intent of the taxation and distribution today is to 'equally share the
> standard of living", without regard to contribution, risk, achievement, etc.
>
> Again, I submit that Obama is using 'street preaching' like an evangelist,
> except he is preaching Marxism.
>
> Ed K
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Benjamin Cittadino wrote:
>>
>> You know Brad,Herb and Ed, I have been trying to think of a way to express
>> my biggest problem with Palin. I think I may have the germ of an idea, not
>> fully formed yet but I'd be interested in your reaction. Ross Perot, crazy
>> little bugger that he was, did have a point when he said that one of the
>> most important jobs of the President was to make use of the "bully pulpit"
>> that the office provides.  The Pres has no legislative or judicial power
>> but it is the power of inspiration and advocacy, and the power to make
>> Americans feel good about themselves, and/or become motivated to meet
>> great challenges as a nation that makes the office so important.
>>
>> Think about listening to FDR, Kennedy, Reagan and Bush Sr.  These men
>> moved us to handle the challenges of their times. Clinton was such a man
>> as well.  When we listen to Barak Obama speak, I believe most Americans
>> hear similar inspiration.  Even you men, if you could forget what you
>> think you know about his past, if you just LISTEN to the words, he makes
>> everybody who listens to him want to be and do great.
>>
>> When people listen to Ms Palin, half are inspired to hate the other half.
>> In the words of "W", she's a divider not a uniter.  Her sarcastic and mean
>> spirited references to real Americans vs. THE OTHERS, is a call to the
>> worst in each of us, a call to blame  THEM for our troubles.
>>
>> Do you see? Do you hear it? Am I on to something here?
>>
>> Ben C.
>>
>> TN Rhodey-2 wrote:
>>>
>>> Herb, I do see the difference. I also understand the scholarship is not
>>> for
>>> raising your kids. Do you see that? You ignored that part of my post. I
>>> wonder why?
>>>
>>> My definition would includes the most prestigious scholarship i am aware
>>> of.
>>> Can you name a more prestigious academic scholarship? You respond to my
>>> post
>>> but never answered the question.  I do agree that more people seek a HS
>>> diploma than a Rhodes Scholarship. You will argue the silliest things.
>>>
>>> Anyway iyou agreed with main point....a Rhodes Scholarship does not make
>>> one
>>> a good person or president.
>>>
>>> Wally
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Herb Parsons
>>> <hparsons at parsonsys.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ben's Definition - "single most prestigious, competitive, sought after,
>>>> challenging, and rewarding academic honor…"
>>>> Wally's Definition - "a highly sought after ACADEMIC scholarship"
>>>>
>>>> I do hope you see the difference between the two. I'd be willing to make
>>>> a bet with anyone on here, ANYONE. I'd be willing to bet that there are
>>>> more people seeking a high school diploma in any one year than there are
>>>> seeking Rhodes scholarships. I think a HS diploma would be a much more
>>>> sought after honor.
>>>>
>>>> That's the problem with hyperbole. People get so caught up in saying
>>>> things that they quickly lose track of what they are saying.
>>>>
>>>> However, the real point to this is:
>>>>
>>>> Does having gaining a Rhodes scholarship make on more qualified for the
>>>> white house? I don't think so.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> TN Rhodey wrote:
>>>> > Ed, Perhaps you are letting your opinion of Clinton tarnish the
>>>> achievement
>>>> > of a Rhodes Scholarship. As Ben mentioned it is a highly sought
>>>> > after ACADEMIC scholarship. This is not his definition this is
>>>> reality.
>>>> Is
>>>> > there a more prestigious post graduate scholarship offered?
>>>> >
>>>> > A Rhodes scholarship is not awarded for raising a family or imparting
>>>> your
>>>> > approved values.  It is nothing like Mormons sent abroad.....they were
>>>> not
>>>> > selected for their mission based on academics. Many who achieve the
>>>> academic
>>>> > honors you mention are later selected for a Rhodes Scholarship.
>>>> >
>>>> > Most seem to recognize that a Rhodes Scholarship is awarded to the
>>>> cream
>>>> of
>>>> > the academic crop. Beings a Rhodes Scholar does not guarantee high
>>>> morals,
>>>> > post graduate achievement, or groom one for future presidency. I
>>>> wonder
>>>> how
>>>> > many Rhodes scholars own Rhodes sailboats?
>>>> >
>>>> > Wally
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 7:51 AM, Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> "Bill Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar…"  "Surely you realize this post
>>>> >> graduate
>>>> >> grant is the single most prestigious, competitive, sought after,
>>>> >> challenging, and rewarding academic honor that a college graduate can
>>>> >> receive. Please tell me you accept that fact."
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Ben in American it is acceptable to have people with other opinions.
>>>> It
>>>> is
>>>> >> understood that one opinion is not necessarily the absolute epiphany.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> So as to your statement, I will accept what you said about 'a Rhodes
>>>> >> Scholar' as fact to you.  And that is your opinion.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> My opinion is not the same and my values are not the same.  And I
>>>> know
>>>> >> other
>>>> >> Americans who share my opinion, and may know some who share yours.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> As for the part that part that says, "single most prestigious,
>>>> competitive,
>>>> >> sought after, challenging, and rewarding academic honor…"  I suggest
>>>> that
>>>> >> may be true, but only to those who seek that specific type
>>>> recognition.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Your definition does not include 'Scientific Achievements' of an
>>>> academic
>>>> >> nature.  Your definition does not include 'Achievements' of economic,
>>>> >> religious, social (to include community) and a plethora of
>>>> achievements
>>>> >> that
>>>> >> may have other or different academic measurements.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> So I give the Rhodes Scholar the same or equal weight as cum laude or
>>>> summa
>>>> >> cum laude, or other academic honors.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> In summary, while it is nice to have some who go to another country
>>>> to
>>>> >> study
>>>> >> for a year or two, I do not limit my recognition of important
>>>> achievement
>>>> >> to
>>>> >> that group.  I am not a Mormon, but their practice of sending young
>>>> men
>>>> on
>>>> >> missions to different parts of this country or other countries
>>>> accomplishes
>>>> >> a similar education.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> A researcher who finds important medical facts about diseases to me
>>>> is
>>>> an
>>>> >> equal or greater achievement. than a Rhodes Scholar.  And, note that
>>>> this
>>>> >> can be accomplished in an Academic laboratory.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> A young lady who finds a husband and has several children and imparts
>>>> into
>>>> >> those children important societal values to me is a higher
>>>> achievement
>>>> than
>>>> >> your Rhodes Scholar.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> So, we do not agree.  Others are free to agree with you.  What we are
>>>> >> talking about is the difference between 'Conservative' values and
>>>> >> liberalism.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Ed K
>>>> >> addendum, ""A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one
>>>> of
>>>> the
>>>> >> high virtues of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws
>>>> of
>>>> >> necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in
>>>> danger,
>>>> are
>>>> >> of higher obligation."    Thomas Jefferson
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Benjamin Cittadino wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Tootle;
>>>> >>> I recently called Bill Clinton a genius in defending my position
>>>> that
>>>> it
>>>> >>> is not her accent that makes Sarah Palin a moron. Clinton has a
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> pronounced
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> accent.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> As you must have known , but perhaps have blocked from your memory,
>>>> Bill
>>>> >>> Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar.  Surely you realize this post graduate
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> grant
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> is the single most prestigious, competitive, sought after,
>>>> challenging,
>>>> >>> and rewarding academic honor that a college graduate can receive.
>>>> Please
>>>> >>> tell me you accept that fact.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Bill Clinton speaks in complete, gramatically correct, coherant
>>>> English
>>>> >>> sentences.  His paragraphs have a beginning, a middle and an end
>>>> that
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> hang
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> together as eloquent expressions of a complete thought.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Bill Clinton can talk for hours on esoteric subjects of foreign and
>>>> >>> domestic policy, without notes.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> He is spontaneously witty, charming, quick, and isn't afraid to
>>>> appear
>>>> >>> "intellectual". He is utterly unafraid to be challenged on any
>>>> subject
>>>> by
>>>> >>> anyone, and is a persuasive advocate for his point of view.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Sarah Palin spouts transparently canned lines, which almost always
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> include
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> the words, "maverick, soccar Mom, pit bull, Joe six-pack, hockey
>>>> mom,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> real
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> americans, and/or you betcha" over and over.  She has one talent,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> sarcasm,
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> and it is no wonder to me why she is so popular with some of the
>>>> folks
>>>> on
>>>> >>> this forum.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> She wants to be VP to a man who has had multiple bouts with serious
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> cancer
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> and is of advanced age.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I am not alone in my assessment of this person.  David Brooks and
>>>> other
>>>> >>> right of center writers like Peggy Noonan and others feel exactly
>>>> the
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> same
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> way.  I'm in good company in my assessment.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Who thinks she is not a moron?  As far as I can tell, only afew
>>>> hardy
>>>> >>> souls on this forum.  Well, good luck with that.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Ben C.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> PS- for purposes of this discussion I define moron as a person of
>>>> obvious
>>>> >>> intellectual incapacity who is also mean, nasty, sarcastic and adds
>>>> >>> nothing to the public discourse. It is a function of both attitude
>>>> AND
>>>> >>> aptitude.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> PPS-Yes Tootle I know that makes me a moron in your eyes. I can live
>>>> with
>>>> >>> that.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Tootle wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> Is he getting the thirst for 'politics'?  Maybe the governorship of
>>>> say,
>>>> >>>> Illinois, Pennsylvania, Virginia ... sounds like he as an audience
>>>> >>>> waiting...
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Ed K
>>>> >>>>  http://www.nabble.com/file/p20149918/WigeeBoard.jpg WigeeBoard.jpg
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> View this message in context:
>>>> >>
>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Bullshit-and-the-Art-of-Crap-Detection---Political-tp20148504p20163445.html
>>>> >> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
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>>>> >>
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>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Bullshit-and-the-Art-of-Crap-Detection---Political-tp20148504p20168818.html
> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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