[Rhodes22-list] Social Security Tax

elle watermusic38 at yahoo.com
Mon Oct 27 15:01:17 EDT 2008 

>Fred Smith has built more houses,educated more kids, moved more people out of poverty than >any "spreadthe wealth" program.  He created the wealth.  Obama wants to argue
>about who got the biggest slice of pie.

Brad,

It takes more commitment, more intelligence, more faith, to create (and sustain)  wealth than it does to just steal it (oops, I mean 'spread") No work involved there......No sustained benefit, either...just more & more theft.....

elle

We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.

1992 Rhodes 22   Recyc '06  "WaterMusic"   (Lady in Red)


--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Social Security Tax
> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 1:02 PM
> Dave,
> 
> "He is considering plans that would ask those making
> over $250,000 to
> pay in the range of
>  2 to 4 percentage points more in total (combined employer
> and employee)."
> 
> There is the problem in a nutshell!  Social Security was
> started by
> FDR as an insurance program during the Great Depression so
> old folks
> wouldn't live in poverty.  It has worked pretty well
> judging by my
> parents experience (age 87 and 83).  The ratio of workers
> to
> recipients was 40 to 1 then.  The "Baby Boomers"
> are changing the
> formula drastically.
> 
> Here's the problem with all of Obama's math.  You
> can't give tax
> breaks to 95% of the population when almost 40% don't
> pay taxes (38%
> is the actual number).  There is a "donut hole"
> in the Obama SS tax
> collection scheme which I'm too lazy to look-up today
> (but from memory
> is about 120K to 250K).  Do your own research.  Your
> statement is
> correct in that Obama's plan is to start collecting SS
> payments again
> once your income exceeds $250,000.  That's a pretty low
> threshold for
> any successful small business or married professional
> couple.  Those
> +250K people will recieve NO additional SS benefit for
> their
> additional contribution.  We have now crossed the threshold
> beyond
> insurance to a straight tax.  That would be fine if you
> could point
> out one single example, any single example in history,
> where such
> re-distribution of wealth has worked.
> 
> Go back and read my post of FredEx.  Fred Smith has built
> more houses,
> educated more kids, moved more people out of poverty than
> any "spread
> the wealth" program.  He created the wealth.  Obama
> wants to argue
> about who got the biggest slice of pie.
> 
> How about we bake more pies!  This ain't rocket
> science.
> 
> Brad
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 11:33 AM, David Bradley
> <dwbrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Bill, do you have a source for your information below?
> >
> > Here is what the Obama site has to say on social
> security taxes:
> >
> > This tax calculator assumes the continuation of
> current law for Social
> > Security taxes. Barack Obama has said that he would
> like to work with
> > members of Congress from both parties to strengthen
> Social Security
> > and prevent privatization while protecting middle
> class families from
> > tax increases or benefit cuts. As part of a bipartisan
> plan that would
> > be phased in over many years, he would ask those
> making over $250,000
> > to contribute a bit more to Social Security to keep it
> sound. Despite
> > the smears of his opponents, Obama does not support
> uncapping the
> > payroll tax at the full 12.4 percent rate. Instead, he
> is considering
> > plans that would ask those making over $250,000 to pay
> in the range of
> > 2 to 4 percentage points more in total (combined
> employer and
> > employee). This change to Social Security would start
> a decade or more
> > from now and is similar to the rate increases floated
> by McCain's
> > close adviser Senator Lindsey Graham and that McCain
> has previously
> > said he "could" support.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 7:50 AM, Bill Effros
> <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> >> Dave,
> >>
> >> What do you know about the impending Social
> Security Tax hike?
> >>
> >> As I understand it, the idea is to uncap maximum
> social security taxes
> >> which now stop at $90,000.  That will add 15% to
> the tax bill of
> >> everyone who earns more than $90,000 a year.  I
> believe that is now
> >> middle class.
> >>
> >> For people in the 28% tax bracket, their
> incremental tax on amounts over
> >> $90,000 will be 43%.  People in the 35% tax
> bracket will pay 50% tax on
> >> money they earn over 90%. (Before city and state
> taxes.)
> >>
> >> In theory this only hits the self-employed at 15%,
> but somebody is going
> >> to have to pay 15% more, no matter who is credited
> with the payment, so
> >> everyone will be effected.
> >>
> >> Of course, the really rich pay nothing, because
> they don't earn their
> >> money as ordinary income.
> >>
> >> It looks to me like the middle class is going to
> take a real whack on
> >> the side of the head.
> >>
> >> Do you understand it any differently?
> >>
> >> Bill Effros
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> David Bradley wrote:
> >>> Brad,
> >>>
> >>> We share many of the same values, if not most.
>  We probably share a
> >>> tax bracket.  We do stand on different sides
> of how to view a few
> >>> percentage point change in tax rates.  I view
> it as more of the same,
> >>> you seem to view it as a fundamental shift. 
> The Bush tax breaks gave
> >>> more back to the middle class than the higher
> tax brackets.
> >>>
> >>> I did read your atricle from Fred Smith. 
> He's a great leader.  I've
> >>> worked for some great leaders too.  They are
> divided on this election.
> >>>
> >>> More to the point.  What I guess you are
> saying is that you see Sarah
> >>> Palin as having a better shot at swinging the
> vote with her message
> >>> than staying on message with McCain.  More
> power to you and yours.  I
> >>> would be more worried about the
> "real" John McCain I saw at the Alfred
> >>> Smith dinner closing the gap than I am the
> divisive Sarah Palin.
> >>>
> >>> T-minus 10 days and counting.  I'll be
> glad when this is over.  Or at
> >>> least, when we get to the next chapter.
> >>>
> >>> Dave
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 6:51 PM, Brad Haslett
> <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Dave,
> >>>>
> >>>> No, I haven't written it off.  Kerry
> was leading in the polls at this
> >>>> same point.  Obama polled a lot higher
> going into the late primaries
> >>>> than the vote he actually got, hence, a
> consistent ass-kicking by
> >>>> Hillary in the closing days.  But, I'm
> a realist.
> >>>>
> >>>> The middle?  I skipped the middle.  I grew
> up working poor, spent the
> >>>> first ten years of my adult life working
> poor, and poof! overnight
> >>>> became so called "upper middle
> class".
> >>>>
> >>>> My wife and I have a bulls eye on our
> backs.  We already max out the
> >>>> limits on what we can save tax-free, we
> already have our tax
> >>>> deductions reduced, we can't
> participate in Roth IRA's,  we can't
> >>>> contribute to Coverdale ESA for our
> daughter's college - we're rich!
> >>>>
> >>>> The truth is, we're not rich.  My wife
> and I both have above average
> >>>> jobs that we both worked our asses off for
> and now find ourselves
> >>>> defined as "rich". Most people
> don't realize just how close to being
> >>>> "rich" they are, and trust me,
> this $250,000 threshold is an illusion.
> >>>>
> >>>> Am I in the "middle"
> philosophically?  If "in the middle" means I how
> >>>> I raised my boys, ie,
> >>>> "work hard, study in school, pay your
> bills, show-up on time", etc.,
> >>>> then I'm in the middle.
> >>>>
> >>>> Part of what being a conservative means to
> me is to help others get
> >>>> ahead.  I'm very proud of what our
> little company has donated on the
> >>>> Mississippi Gulf Coast after Katrina to
> help people get back on their
> >>>> feet.
> >>>>
> >>>> Hold a gun to my head and demand that I
> contribute, I quickly develop
> >>>> a different attitude.
> >>>>
> >>>> Did you read the article I posted earlier
> about my boss?  Fred has
> >>>> educated more people, moved more people
> into the middle and upper
> >>>> classes, helped buy more homes and educate
> more kids than a thousand
> >>>> 'community organizers'.
> >>>>
> >>>> Call me a radical for believing in free
> enterprise. An yes, Sarah
> >>>> Palin speaks to my sensibilities!
> >>>>
> >>>> Brad
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 8:28 PM, David
> Bradley <dwbrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Sure, I get that.  Only trouble is,
> she's not running for president.
> >>>>> Have you written off the election?  I
> think it's going to be close.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What you don't seem to
> "get" is that more people in the middle are put
> >>>>> off by her persona and message than
> not, and the middle is what
> >>>>> carries every election.  Do you still
> see yourself as representing a
> >>>>> middle (i.e., moderate) view?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dave
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 5:59 PM, Brad
> Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Dave,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> You don't get it do you? 
> Palin is the only conservative (actually
> >>>>>> more libertarian) in this race. 
> She isn't driving ANY conservatives
> >>>>>> away.  McCain has already done
> that, as well as some Republicans.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> You are smart enough to figure
> this all out on your own aren't you?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Brad
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 7:49 PM,
> David Bradley <dwbrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Oh I saw it.  That's why I
> bothered to post this article.  She's a
> >>>>>>> loose cannon, playing a
> material role in driving conserviatve
> >>>>>>> comentators and undecided
> voters to Obama.  Yep, you go girl.  Drive
> >>>>>>> that wedge, nice and deep at
> about the 45th percentile.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Dave
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 5:38
> PM, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Herb,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Dave didn't pay
> attention to my earlier post today.  He didn't listen
> >>>>>>>> to our excitement when
> Palin was named to the ticket.  He obviously
> >>>>>>>> missed the "Free
> Sarah Palin" movement early in the campaign.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The longer they
> misunderstand Sarah Palin the better!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Frankly, I'm not sure
> if Sarah can save John McCain from John McCain,
> >>>>>>>> but she's taken the
> gloves and is fighting for herself now.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> You go Girl!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Brad
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at
> 7:34 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Some of us don't
> care if she makes McCain's aides happy.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> David Bradley wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> It looks like the
> McCain camp thinks Palin has turned rogue candidate.
> >>>>>>>>>>  Another example
> to me of lack of experience in the majors.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Dave
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/25/palin.tension/index.html
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Palin's
> 'going rogue,' McCain aide says
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Story Highlights
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Sources say there
> is brewing tension between McCain aides and Palin
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Palin aide says
> she is trying to take control of her message
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "She is a
> diva. She takes no advice from anyone," says a McCain
> adviser
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> >From Dana
> Bash, Peter Hamby and John King CNN
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> ALBUQUERQUE, New
> Mexico (CNN) -- With 10 days until Election Day,
> >>>>>>>>>> long-brewing
> tensions between GOP vice presidential candidate Gov.
> >>>>>>>>>> Sarah Palin and
> key aides to Sen. John McCain have become so intense,
> >>>>>>>>>> they are spilling
> out in public, sources say.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Several McCain
> advisers have suggested to CNN that they have become
> >>>>>>>>>> increasingly
> frustrated with what one aide described as Palin "going
> >>>>>>>>>> rogue."
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> A Palin associate,
> however, said the candidate is simply trying to
> >>>>>>>>>> "bust
> free" of what she believes was a damaging and
> mismanaged
> >>>>>>>>>> roll-out.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> McCain sources say
> Palin has gone off-message several times, and they
> >>>>>>>>>> privately wonder
> whether the incidents were deliberate. They cited an
> >>>>>>>>>> instance in which
> she labeled robocalls -- recorded messages often
> >>>>>>>>>> used to attack a
> candidate's opponent -- "irritating" even as
> the
> >>>>>>>>>> campaign defended
> their use. Also, they pointed to her telling
> >>>>>>>>>> reporters she
> disagreed with the campaign's decision to pull out of
> >>>>>>>>>> Michigan.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> A second McCain
> source says she appears to be looking out for herself
> >>>>>>>>>> more than the
> McCain campaign.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "She is a
> diva. She takes no advice from anyone," said this
> McCain
> >>>>>>>>>> adviser. "She
> does not have any relationships of trust with any of us,
> >>>>>>>>>> her family or
> anyone else.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "Also, she is
> playing for her own future and sees herself as the next
> >>>>>>>>>> leader of the
> party. Remember: Divas trust only unto themselves, as
> >>>>>>>>>> they see
> themselves as the beginning and end of all wisdom."
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> A Palin associate
> defended her, saying that she is "not good at
> >>>>>>>>>> process
> questions" and that her comments on Michigan and the
> robocalls
> >>>>>>>>>> were answers to
> process questions.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Don't Miss
> >>>>>>>>>> Palin details plan
> for special-needs kids
> >>>>>>>>>> Election Center
> 2008
> >>>>>>>>>> But this Palin
> source acknowledged that Palin is trying to take more
> >>>>>>>>>> control of her
> message, pointing to last week's impromptu news
> >>>>>>>>>> conference on a
> Colorado tarmac.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Tracey Schmitt,
> Palin's press secretary, was urgently called over
> >>>>>>>>>> after Palin
> wandered over to the press and started talking. Schmitt
> >>>>>>>>>> tried several
> times to end the unscheduled session.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "We
> acknowledge that perhaps she should have been out there
> doing
> >>>>>>>>>> more," a
> different Palin adviser recently said, arguing that
> "it's not
> >>>>>>>>>> fair to judge her
> off one or two sound bites" from the network
> >>>>>>>>>> interviews.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The Politico
> reported Saturday on Palin's frustration, specifically
> >>>>>>>>>> with McCain
> advisers Nicolle Wallace and Steve Schmidt. They helped
> >>>>>>>>>> decide to limit
> Palin's initial press contact to high-profile
> >>>>>>>>>> interviews with
> Charlie Gibson of ABC and Katie Couric of CBS, which
> >>>>>>>>>> all McCain sources
> admit were highly damaging.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> In response,
> Wallace e-mailed CNN the same quote she gave the
> >>>>>>>>>> Politico: "If
> people want to throw me under the bus, my personal
> >>>>>>>>>> belief is that the
> most honorable thing to do is to lie there."
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> But two sources,
> one Palin associate and one McCain adviser, defended
> >>>>>>>>>> the decision to
> keep her press interaction limited after she was
> >>>>>>>>>> picked, both
> saying flatly that she was not ready and that the
> >>>>>>>>>> missteps could
> have been a lot worse.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> They insisted that
> she needed time to be briefed on national and
> >>>>>>>>>> international
> issues and on McCain's record.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "Her lack of
> fundamental understanding of some key issues was
> >>>>>>>>>> dramatic,"
> said another McCain source with direct knowledge of the
> >>>>>>>>>> process to prepare
> Palin after she was picked. The source said it was
> >>>>>>>>>> probably the
> "hardest" to get her "up to speed than any
> candidate in
> >>>>>>>>>> history."
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Schmitt came to
> the back of the plane Saturday to deliver a statement
> >>>>>>>>>> to traveling
> reporters: "Unnamed sources with their own agenda will
> >>>>>>>>>> say what they
> want, but from Gov. Palin down, we have one agenda, and
> >>>>>>>>>> that's to win
> on Election Day."
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Yet another senior
> McCain adviser lamented the public recriminations.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "This is what
> happens with a campaign that's behind; it brings out the
> >>>>>>>>>> worst in people,
> finger-pointing and scapegoating," this senior
> >>>>>>>>>> adviser said.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> This adviser also
> decried the double standard, noting that Democratic
> >>>>>>>>>> nominee Sen.
> Barack Obama's running mate, Sen. Joe Biden, has gone
> off
> >>>>>>>>>> the reservation as
> well, most recently by telling donors at a
> >>>>>>>>>> fundraiser that
> America's enemies will try to "test" Obama.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Tensions like
> those within the McCain-Palin campaign are not unusual;
> >>>>>>>>>> vice presidential
> candidates also have a history of butting heads with
> >>>>>>>>>> the top of the
> ticket.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> John Edwards and
> his inner circle repeatedly questioned Sen. John
> >>>>>>>>>> Kerry's
> strategy in 2004, and Kerry loyalists repeatedly aired in
> >>>>>>>>>> public their view
> that Edwards would not play the traditional attack
> >>>>>>>>>> dog role with
> relish because he wanted to protect his future political
> >>>>>>>>>> interests.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Even in a winning
> campaign like Bill Clinton's, some of Al Gore's
> >>>>>>>>>> aides in 1992 and
> again in 1996 questioned how Gore was being
> >>>>>>>>>> scheduled for
> campaign events.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Jack Kemp's
> aides distrusted the Bob Dole camp and vice versa, and Dan
> >>>>>>>>>> Quayle loyalists
> had a list of gripes remarkably similar to those now
> >>>>>>>>>> being aired by
> Gov. Palin's aides.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> With the
> presidential race in its final days and polls suggesting
> that
> >>>>>>>>>> McCain's
> chances of pulling out a win are growing slim, Palin may be
> >>>>>>>>>> looking after her
> own future.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "She's no
> longer playing for 2008; she's playing 2012,"
> Democratic
> >>>>>>>>>> pollster Peter
> Hart said. "And the difficulty is, when she went on
> >>>>>>>>>> 'Saturday
> Night Live,' she became a reinforcement of her
> caricature.
> >>>>>>>>>> She never allowed
> herself to be vetted, and at the end of the day,
> >>>>>>>>>> voters turned
> against her both in terms of qualifications and
> >>>>>>>>>> personally
> >>>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> To
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> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> To
> subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe
> or for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> David Bradley
> >>>>>>> +1.206.234.3977
> >>>>>>> dwbrad at gmail.com
> >>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or
> for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for
> help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> David Bradley
> >>>>> +1.206.234.3977
> >>>>> dwbrad at gmail.com
> >>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help
> with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
> using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
> the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > David Bradley
> > +1.206.234.3977
> > dwbrad at gmail.com
> > __________________________________________________
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > __________________________________________________
> >
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