[Rhodes22-list] Politics - The Chicago Way - political
Herb Parsons
hparsons at parsonsys.com
Tue Sep 2 15:30:42 EDT 2008
I agree. I think I like her so much because I'm a conservative
Republican with strong Libertarian leanings.
Brad Haslett wrote:
> Herb,
>
> It can't get any better given politics-
>
> Brad
>
> --------
>
> September 02, 2008
> The Libertarian Case for Palin
> By David Harsanyi
>
> The potential political consequences of Sarah Palin have been chewed
> over from every imaginable angle.
>
> Though there is plenty to ponder, one thing is certain:
> libertarian-inclined voters should be encouraged. No, I'm not
> suggesting that your little Molly will be bringing home "The Road to
> Serfdom" from her (distinctly non-public) elementary school. But in
> contrast to any national candidate in recent memory, Palin is the one
> that exudes the economic and cultural sensibilities of a geniune
> Western-style libertarian.
>
> Now, Palin's lack of experience has been framed as an impenetrable
> negative. One wire story helpfully noted that Palin had never ever
> appeared on "Meet the Press." Shocking! But as Barack Obama often
> notes, it's not about experience, it's about judgment. And Palin's
> penchant for reform-minded conservatism is certainly at odds with the
> racket Washington Republicans have offered up the past 8 years.
>
> Palin, for example, vetoed 300 pork projects in Alaska in her first
> year in office. She made a habit of knocking out big-government
> Republicans in her brief political career. For this, the 44-year-old
> mother of five enjoys a sterling approval rating in a state with
> arguably the nation's most libertarian-minded populace.
>
> When it comes to healthcare, Palin says she wants to "allow
> free-market competition and reduce onerous government regulation."
> These days, any mention of the "free market" that's not framed as a
> crass pejorative is a sign of progress.
>
> Culturally, there is little for the Heartland to dislike. By now,
> you've probably seen picture or two of Palin sporting a rifle.
> Apparently, she's left carcasses strewn across the Alaskan wilderness.
> In some places -- areas where the nation is growing -- owning a gun is
> not yet a sin. And unlike Obama, Palin seems to believe that the
> Second Amendment means the exact same thing in rural Alaska as it does
> in the streets of Chicago.
>
> Yes, Palin is without argument a staunch social conservative. She is
> fervently opposed to abortion - even in cases of rape and incest,
> which will raise eyebrows, but is certainly more philosophically
> consistent than the namby pambyism of your average politician. The
> choice issue, after all, is complicated, even for many libertarians.
> And, as I was recently reminded, Ron Paul, the Libertarian champion of
> the 21st century, also opposes abortion.
>
> Even when advocating for "moral" issues, Palin's approach is a soft
> sell. Palin does not support gay marriage (neither does Obama, it
> should be noted). Yet, in 2006, Palin's first veto as Governor was a
> bill that sought to block state employee benefits and health insurance
> for same-sex couples.
>
> We cannot bore into Palin's soul to see her true feelings about gay
> couples, but, at the time, she noted that signing "this bill would be
> in direct violation of my oath of office" because it was
> unconstitutional. For most libertarians, the thought of politician
> following any constitution, rather than their own predilections,
> morality or the "common good," is a nice change of pace.
>
> On the counterproductive War on Drugs, Palin is no warrior. Her
> Republican opponent in 2006 primary, incumbent Republican governor
> Frank Murkowski, made recriminalizing the possession of small amounts
> of pot a priority. Palin, though she does not support legalization,
> believes enforcement should not be a high priority.
>
> "I can't claim a Bill Clinton and say that I never inhaled," Palin
> once said. This sort of honesty is a welcome change from the standard
> hand-wringing about marijuana's supposed disastrous consequences.
>
> On education, Palin supports school-choice programs. There have
> already been smears that she backed "creationist" teaching in "public"
> schools, when in fact, Palin's comment regarding intelligent design
> should hold some appeal to libertarians. Even if you find the idea
> inane, in essence, Palin pushed the idea that parents, rather than the
> state, should decide what children are learning.
>
> When asked about this commotion, Palin said, "I won't have religion as
> a litmus test, or anybody's personal opinion on evolution or
> creationism." If lockstep left-wing union-run school boards in urban
> districts would follow this sound advice on ideological litmus tests,
> our educational system would be a lot more productive.
>
> Then there is a question of authenticity. And it matters. Those who
> will do anything for power, will say anything and support any position
> that is convenient. From John McCain to Joe Biden to Obama, one gets
> the sense that political office is their life's work. All of them have
> made attempts to create the perception that, hey, they're ordinary
> Americans just like you. Palin won't have to work at genuineness. With
> Palin, you get the impression she can take politics or leave it. Her
> life certainly hasn't been saturated with policy, favor trading and
> back scratching.
>
> Of course, Washington has a mysterious power to turn perfectly
> reasonable, wholesome, well-meaning human beings into equivocating
> crooked gasbags. But, from the little we know about Palin, such a
> transformation doesn't seem likely. And for libertarians - in the
> broadest sense of the small "l" word -- she's the best candidate they
> can expect.
> Reach columnist David Harsanyi at dharsanyi at denverpost.com.
>
> On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 11:49 AM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>
>> EXACTLY, and if the "We need change" folks on the left would remove
>> their "any Republican is a BAD Republican" blinders, they'd see that too.
>>
>> I think it's almost funny to see folks say, on the one hand "We want
>> something DIFFERENT, we don't want a career politician, we want a REAL
>> person in the WH", then turn right around and say "But, she's got no
>> 'experience', and she has family issues, and ... and ... and ..."
>>
>> I believe everyone of those have been doing what their messiah has been
>> doing, spouting rhetoric with no real meaning.
>>
>> If it sounds like I'm hyped about this choice, there's a reason! And, I
>> hope the dems on the left keep right on "not understanding".... at least
>> for a few more weeks.
>>
>>
>> Brad Haslett wrote:
>>
>>> Herb,
>>>
>>> McCain is just the catalyst in this race. Sarah is the Hope and
>>> Change and "what we've been waiting for". She has the potential to be
>>> the Teddy Roosevelt of the 21st Century and start her own Bull Moose
>>> Party (er, might have to work on a new name given her relationship
>>> with the moose). At any rate, she owes nothing to the GOP in Alaska.
>>> She got the GOP party chairman kicked off the Oil and Gas Commission
>>> and fined $12,000. They are not on speaking terms.
>>>
>>> You go girl!
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 10:37 AM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I don't think the left, or even much of the press, understand that many
>>>> are exactly where you and I are. We were going to reluctantly vote for
>>>> McCain and whoever. Now we're going to enthusiastically vote for the
>>>> ticket, when in reality we're reluctantly voting for McCain, and very
>>>> enthusiastically voting for Palin.
>>>>
>>>> I'm still hoping McCain sees the light, pledges a single term
>>>> presidency, and seals the deal. Palin would be a draw now for what she
>>>> would be doing in 2012.
>>>>
>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's another summation of your argument.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Palin really is what Obama pretends to be, but is not: a citizen
>>>>> activist who entered politics in order to fight entrenched interests
>>>>> and bring about tangible, practical change. The track record shows
>>>>> that Obama, far from being a "change agent," is a relentless careerist
>>>>> who has brought little, if any, major reform to Chicago; Springfield,
>>>>> Ill., or Washington."
>>>>>
>>>>> You can read the whole thing here-
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0902/p09s02-coop.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Brad
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 9:28 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Slim,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Obama campaign is being run "The Chicago Way" -- all elbows -- very
>>>>>> dirty -- accuse your opponent of doing what you are doing -- "Do onto
>>>>>> others before they do onto you."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The democrats have latched onto the "George W. Bush of the Left". They
>>>>>> have decided to use the Lee Atwater playbook. The campaign slogan of
>>>>>> liberals seems to be "The End Justifies the Means".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's sad.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Obama has absolutely zero political credentials. His campaign biography
>>>>>> is a complete fake. The white Chicago political machine has been using
>>>>>> him as a wedge in the black community since the Chicago Arab-American
>>>>>> community first latched onto him. He is under federal investigation for
>>>>>> bribery, corruption, extortion, and campaign fraud. He has taken every
>>>>>> side on every issue -- no one has the slightest idea where he stands on
>>>>>> any of the issues you raise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Obama's little girls can be used as campaign props, but they are
>>>>>> off-limits for anyone to raise as campaign issues. Not Sarah Palin's
>>>>>> though! We learn that her daughter is pregnant within days of her
>>>>>> addition to the Republican ticket. "Liberals" are saying she should
>>>>>> spend more time at home with her kids, so this kind of thing wouldn't
>>>>>> happen in the first place. "Keep 'em barefoot in the kitchen..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've got lots of liberal friends saying the same kinds of things you are
>>>>>> saying. "Winning is everything." "Let's use the same tactics the
>>>>>> Republicans used." "What we need is another moron surrounded by
>>>>>> 'experienced advisors' who will make all the right decisions for him.
>>>>>> Hey! It worked just great for Bush and Cheney."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And now that it's becoming increasingly clear that Obama is a crook, and
>>>>>> is likely to be indicted, we've got the "no big deal -- they're all
>>>>>> crooks" argument. Well, I don't believe that, and yes it does matter to
>>>>>> me. It matters a lot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It also matters to the constitution. The crimes Obama apparently
>>>>>> committed are an automatic bar to the Presidency. If elected he cannot
>>>>>> serve--these particular crimes (unlike blow jobs) are actually named in
>>>>>> the constitution as grounds for removal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stop this Obama weeping and move on to what you know is right!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>> Rummy's Bar and Grill Patron Since 1997
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steven Alm wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I want to ask you the same question. What's going on here? Do you really
>>>>>>> advocate electing a VP who has only been the mayor of a town of less than
>>>>>>> 9000 and a Gov. for two years? OK, so she was able to ruffle the feathers
>>>>>>> of some of the GOP. Is that why you're backing her? Is that where you're
>>>>>>> really hanging you hat? That's not the Bill I know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I made a mistake when I wrote that she's pro-choice. I was wrong. Bad
>>>>>>> information. Is pro-life what you're advocating? That's not the Bill I
>>>>>>> know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We know you're a disgruntled Hillary supporter and we know you think Obama's
>>>>>>> a crook re the campaign finances. So are you really jumping ship on that
>>>>>>> issue? That's not the Bill I know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have you forgotten that unemployment is at a high, poverty level is rising,
>>>>>>> people are without jobs, median income is down, no health care, the needless
>>>>>>> and costly war in Iraq, the depleting of SS, the vanishing pensions, the
>>>>>>> enormous debt? What do you want for Chrisssake? This is not the Bill I
>>>>>>> know!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What has the war in Iraq done for us? Nothing, unless you're Haliburton.
>>>>>>> Follow the money!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's time you get over Hillary's loss and join the fray. OBAMA IN 08!!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Change," "Hope," anything to elect a Democrat as the next President! I
>>>>>>> want something to be done!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Health Care. Nay-sayers are quick to point out flaws in Canada, Norway or
>>>>>>> where ever. Why not assume we can do it better than any of those other
>>>>>>> countries. We're NOT Canada or Norway! Why shouldn't we show the world
>>>>>>> how it's done? Why couldn't we put together a system that beats all?
>>>>>>> THAT'S the American way of doing things!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The assistant minister to health care in Kazakhstan, Sheila O'Dougherty, who
>>>>>>> makes it her job to understand the health care systems of the world and also
>>>>>>> happens to be my cousin, says we already have the funds to do this if we
>>>>>>> decide to. It wouldn't necessarily demand extra taxes. Why are we fighting
>>>>>>> this? Because Republicans don't like the idea of "Socialized Medicine" even
>>>>>>> though all the world's greatest country's have adopted it. Why not do it
>>>>>>> and be the best at it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill, I'm sorry you think Barack's a crook. Maybe he is, but at least he's
>>>>>>> in good company. He's a politician after all. Campaign fiance faux
>>>>>>> pax--Stop the frickin' presses! Get over yourself and support the
>>>>>>> democrats! Stop this Hillary weeping and move on to what you know is right!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 4:01 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Slim,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm surprised at the sexist comments.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What's going on here?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Obama has accomplished nothing and gone along with corrupt Cook County
>>>>>>>> Machine politics for his entire career. He has only won rigged
>>>>>>>> elections, and stood up to nobody. He started running for President 2
>>>>>>>> years after becoming a US Senator, and has taken all sides on every
>>>>>>>> position. He is young, charismatic, attractive, inexperienced..."A
>>>>>>>> Candidate Who Represents Change"...oh! and did I mention...he's a man.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So along comes this woman who fought the good ol' boy network in her own
>>>>>>>> party and beat them. She taxed oil companies. Stood up to venerated
>>>>>>>> party leaders. Fought corruption and wasteful spending. She talks the
>>>>>>>> talk and walks the walk. She opposes abortion and had a Down Syndrome
>>>>>>>> child. She supports the military and one of her children is in Iraq.
>>>>>>>> She is young, charismatic, attractive, inexperienced..."A Candidate Who
>>>>>>>> Represents Change". She was Governor for 2 years before running for the
>>>>>>>> office of Vice President.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But the "don't smear our boy" campaign immediately put out email all
>>>>>>>> over the internet smearing her as "poofy".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The good ol' boys running Obama's campaign have a long history of
>>>>>>>> smearing women. They smeared Hillary. They smeared Geraldine Ferraro.
>>>>>>>> Now they are smearing Palin.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm really surprised you passed this smear along. I know you better.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Steven Alm wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Brad,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think she's right about ANWR. Yep, that's me who said that. You know
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a liberal but I'm pulling for more domestic drilling. And you can
>>>>>>>>> definitely put me in the "all of the above" column.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> BUT... let's say McCain dies and she's the pres. Do you think she's
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ready
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> to lock horns with the likes of Vlad "The Impaler" Putin? Kim Jong Il?
>>>>>>>>> Ahmadinnerjacket? So much for the argument over Obama's inexperience.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> want Barack to face off with those characters WAY more than Poofy Palin.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> McCain is obviously playing to the upset Clinton supporters. She's
>>>>>>>>> pro-choice. She's a loose cannon among the GOP (Greed Over People) and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> will not help him in his party. He's vying for the independents and the
>>>>>>>>> women but it won't work. He just sealed Obama's victory. Thank God he
>>>>>>>>> didn't pick Pawlenty which might have turned our blue state to red and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> left
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> us with Carol Molnau as our gov. Whew!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Here's your "lightweight" beauty queen "minority" pick on ANWR.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=836304396
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Lot's of "big boys" didn't take the Guv serious and got their "clocks
>>>>>>>>>> cleaned".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Brad
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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