[Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus, the Republicans are going to save us from the Republicans

[Brad Haslett]

Slim,

False.  She left the AoG because of their extreme views but remains
friendly with her former pastor and congregation (see attached NYT
article). See my response to Herb about creationism and abortion.

Brad

-------------------

September 6, 2008
In Palin's Life and Politics, Goal to Follow God's Will
By KIRK JOHNSON and KIM SEVERSON

WASILLA, Alaska — Shortly after taking office as governor in 2006,
Sarah Palin sent an e-mail message to Paul E. Riley, her former pastor
in the Assembly of God Church, which her family began attending when
she was a youth. She needed spiritual advice in how to do her new job,
said Mr. Riley, who is 78 and retired from the church.

"She asked for a biblical example of people who were great leaders and
what was the secret of their leadership," Mr. Riley said.

He wrote back that she should read again from the Old Testament the
story of Esther, a beauty queen who became a real one, gaining the
king's ear to avert the slaughter of the Jews and vanquish their
enemies. When Esther is called to serve, God grants her a strength she
never knew she had.

Mr. Riley said he thought Ms. Palin had lived out the advice as
governor, and would now do so again as the Republican Party's
vice-presidential nominee.

"God has given her the opportunity to serve," he said. "And God has
given her the strength to carry out her goals."

Ms. Palin's religious life — what she believes and how her beliefs
intersect or not with her life in public office in Alaska — has become
a topic of intense interest and scrutiny across the political spectrum
as she has risen from relative obscurity to become Senator John
McCain's running mate.

Interviews with the two pastors she has been most closely associated
with here in her hometown — she now attends the Wasilla Bible Church,
though she keeps in touch with Mr. Riley and recently spoke at an
event at his former church — and with friends and acquaintances who
have worshipped with her point to a firm conclusion: her foundation
and source of guidance is the Bible, and with it has come a conviction
to be God's servant.

"Just be amazed at the umbrella of this church here, where God is
going to send you from this church," Ms. Palin told the gathering in
June of young graduates of a ministry program at the Assembly of God
Church, a video of which has been posted on YouTube.

"Believe me," she said, "I know what I am saying — where God has sent
me, from underneath the umbrella of this church, throughout the
state."

Janet Kincaid, who has known Ms. Palin for about 15 years and worked
with her on some Wasilla town boards and commissions when Ms. Palin
was mayor here, said Ms. Palin's spiritual path, from the Assembly of
God to Wasilla Bible, has had a consistent theme.

"The churches that Sarah has attended all believe in a literal
translation of the Bible," Ms. Kincaid said. "Her principal ethical
and moral beliefs stem from this."

Prayer, and belief in its power, is another constant theme, Ms.
Kincaid said, in what she has witnessed in Ms. Palin. "Her beliefs are
firm in the power of prayer — let's put it that way," she said.

Maria Comella, a spokeswoman for the McCain-Palin campaign, said Ms.
Palin had been baptized Roman Catholic as an infant, but declined to
comment further.

"We're not going to get into discussing her religion," she said.

In the address at the Assembly of God Church here, Ms. Palin's ease in
talking about the intersection of faith and public life was clear.
Among other things, she encouraged the group of young church leaders
to pray that "God's will" be done in bringing about the construction
of a big pipeline in the state, and suggested her work as governor
would be hampered "if the people of Alaska's heart isn't right with
God."

She also told the group that her eldest child, Track, would soon be
deployed by the Army to Iraq, and that they should pray "that our
national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God,
that's what we have to make sure we are praying for, that there is a
plan, and that plan is God's plan."

Larry Kroon, who has been the presiding pastor at Wasilla Bible for
the last 30 years, declined to describe Ms. Palin's beliefs or the
role she plays in the church, but suggested that she is more of a
back-bencher than a leading light.

"Todd and Sarah come in as Todd and Sarah — they're very discreet
about it," he said, referring to Ms. Palin's husband.

One of the musical directors at the church, Adele Morgan, who has
known Ms. Palin since the third grade, said the Palins moved to the
nondenominational Wasilla Bible Church in 2002, in part because its
ministry is less "extreme" than Pentecostal churches like the
Assemblies of God, which practice speaking in tongues and miraculous
healings.

"A lot of churches are about music and media and having a big
profile," Ms. Morgan said. "We are against that. That is why it is so
attractive to politicians because they can just sit there and be
safe."

"We've gotten a lot of their people when the other churches get too
extreme," Ms. Morgan continued. However, she added, "If you lift your
hands when we're singing, we're not going to shoot you down."

Mr. Kroon (pronounced krone), a soft-spoken, bearded Alaska native,
said he was convinced that the Bible is the Word of God, and that the
task of believers is to ponder and analyze the book for meaning —
including scrutiny, he said, for errors and mistranslations over the
centuries that may have obscured the original intent.

It is that analysis, he believes, not anything he preaches, that makes
most people in his church socially conservative, he said.

"I trust my people can go out with that and they can deal with an
issue such as abortion — any issue out there — whether it's in the
public arena, or in the hospital room with their relative dying of
cancer, because they will be equipped with a biblical perspective that
will enable them to react in that situation," said Mr. Kroon, who
described himself as "pro-life."

"Our congregation would tend to be conservative, and it's not because
I've told them to be," he said.

Some Jewish groups have raised concerns since the announcement of Ms.
Palin's selection to the Republican ticket that discussions in the
Wasilla Bible Church might go beyond conservatism. Last month, a
leader in the group Jews for Jesus, which advocates converting Jews to
Christianity — but which has been accused by some Jews of
anti-Semitism — spoke at the church. The speaker, David Brickner,
spoke enthusiastically about the "miracle" of conversions in Israel by
the group's missionaries.

The church has also come under fire among some gay advocacy groups for
promoting an upcoming Focus on the Family conference in Anchorage
dealing with the so-called curing of homosexuality.

The Wasilla Bible Church, which draws 800 to 1,000 people for Sunday
service, itself is discreet to the point of self-effacement. Only a
single small sign on the gravel road leading up to the property
declares the name. On the three-year-old building itself, which looks
more like a warehouse than a cathedral, a large cross over the rear
entrance is the only declaration of purpose.

People who know the church and its parishioners say that the mix of
simplicity and quirkiness is common in Alaska, where many people have
moved over the years and left their pasts and old church lives behind.

Homegrown churches like Wasilla — started in the early 1970s by a
handful of families, including Ms. Morgan's, during the construction
boom in building the Trans-Alaska pipeline — have become singularly
Alaskan. Mr. Kroon still remembers the days of a single room with a
wood-burning stove that he would have to fire up before services.

Mr. Kroon said the Alaskan spirit of go-it-alone individuality gives
the church a mix of joiners and resolute nonjoiners. The church offers
full-immersion water baptism, which some people want and others do
not.

"I have people who've been here since I got here, and they still say,
'Don't put me on the membership roll,' " he said. "There's definitely
a cultural element."


On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 2:40 AM, Steven Alm <stevenalm at gmail.com> wrote:
> She's a creationist.  Her Assembly of God stuff is a deal breaker for me.
> Religious extremism cannot be tolerated.
>
> The most important legacy the president leaves is the appointment of the
> supreme court.
> The next pres might appoint as many as three.  If Sarabaracuda has her way,
> say goodbye to Roe V. Wade and hello to back-ally coat hanger  abortions.
>
> Slim
>
> On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>
>> I think it's funny that the candidate that was considered as a running
>> mate for the Democratic choice a few years back, is now being touted as
>> "more of the same". Keep trying though, you guys may find something that
>> works.
>>
>> What exactly makes Palin a "religious kook", that fact that's she
>> religious? I think your colors are beginning to show.
>>
>> petelargo wrote:
>> > Ben, thanks for your post. As you may have noticed, there is no dialogue
>> with
>> > the right-wing extremists. You are wrong, end of discussion and your an
>> > idiot to boot.
>> >
>> > When John McCain won the nomination, Bush disappears overseas. At the
>> RNC,
>> > no Bush, no Cheney (and no mention of them). They know it's a failed
>> > administration. Where were the solutions. Once again, they are trying to
>> > frame the campaign as an ideology argument rather than an issues
>> discussion.
>> >
>> > Today on Face the Nation, "Sis Cum Ba and WHA-LAA", McCain is now the
>> change
>> > candidate and stated that he will end the incredible corruption in
>> > Washington and the failed policies. John McCain has re-defined a whole
>> new
>> > level of flip-flopping on over two dozen key issues within the last eight
>> > years including his own authored bill that he was for and now against.
>> >
>> > I couldn't give a poop about the experience argument of Palin vs Obama.
>> It's
>> > a waste of time.  The entire Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Rice-Rove, etc
>> > administration could be argued to be the most experienced administration
>> in
>> > the history of the White House. A huge amount of prior "executive
>> > experience".  For the first time in recent politics the Republicans had
>> the
>> > power in the white house, judicial, house and senate. How was it for you?
>> > It's one thing to drive a tractor trailer up our butts, but when they
>> start
>> > blowing on the horn while there're doing it, it's really gone too far.
>> >
>> > A big thank you for the memories: the debt, the dead, the twisting
>> > intelligence to "sell" us a war on a country that did not attack us, the
>> > good ol boy ineffectual cronyism, and finally the shredding of the
>> > constitution. With Palin we now we get to have another religious kook to
>> > satisfy the so-called conservative extremist religious right to 'bridge'
>> > them into this administration and get money.
>> >
>> > Spending 5-10 billion dollars a month on Iraq and kissing chinese ass
>> > (borrowing the money) of the most Marxist suppressive government on the
>> > planet at this time is a conservative value?
>> >
>> > Finally, the biggest hypocrisy of all . That these extremists actually
>> think
>> > that they and the republicans are the vanguards of conservatism?  The two
>> > top key pillars of conservatism are less government and government
>> intrusion
>> > and fiscal responsibility.  The only administration that walked that talk
>> in
>> > 50 years was a Democrat that left Bush a 500 billion dollar surplus. He
>> blew
>> > threw that in one year and it was prior to 9-11.  And there is no greater
>> > government intrusion that being told what you can or cannot do with or
>> put
>> > into your body. Palin wants privacy for her family decisions, but she
>> wants
>> > to legislate publicly what you should do with yours. No thanks.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Ben Cittadino-2 wrote:
>> >
>> >> My Dear Culture Warriors;
>> >>
>> >> So....are we having fun yet?
>> >>
>> >> First, I'd like to thank Richard and Slim for stepping up to join the
>> >> "Assault on the Citadel".
>> >> The bullets don't sting as much when the adversary's fire is spread out
>> >> among more than one target.
>> >> In the words first uttered by Gen. "Vinegar Joe" Stillwell, "illegitimi
>> >> non carborundum".
>> >>
>> >> As for Tootle, Brad, and Herb, you guys crack me up.  I posted about
>> Obama
>> >> only because I saw Tootle's post that
>> >> suggested anybody supporting Obama was either a marxist, or a farm
>> animal.
>> >> What did he expect when he said that?
>> >> Herb, where was your outrage that Tootle would refer to some of his
>> fellow
>> >> "Rhodies" in such derogatry terms? Supporting Obama or McCain
>> >> may turn out to be right or wrong, but if we debate policy and don't
>> >> engage in mere name-calling this "sailor's bar"  could be an interesting
>> >> place.
>> >>
>> >> Richard's "geezer" remarks are defensible on several grounds. First, he
>> >> was provoked. Second, he was defending ME.
>> >> Third, it was funny. Calling someone a "marxist" as Tootle did is
>> several
>> >> magnitudes worse than gentle kidding of the
>> >> "old fart" kind. Surely you see the difference.
>> >>
>> >> The positions I tried to lay out as reasons some people support Obama
>> were
>> >> intended as an outline of ideology (as Slim noted),
>> >> not an argument supporting any position.  For example, Herb, you are
>> >> pro-life and will probably vote for McCain/Palin in part for that
>> reason.
>> >> I am pro-choice, pro-embryonic stem cell research and so I will support
>> >> Obama/Biden in part for that reason.  It is not hyperbole to  point out
>> >> the policy differences that explain my choice.  What I know for sure is
>> >> that marxism and "sheepiness" have nothing to do with it. I have thought
>> >> about all of my positions on the issues I mentioned and am completely
>> >> prepared to explain and justify them.  In Brad's oft' repeated mantra I
>> >> know I have "done my homework".
>> >>
>> >> Enough for today. The games will be on soon.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers!
>> >>
>> >> Ben C. , s/v Susan Kay, Highlands, NJ
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
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