[Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus, the "evolutionists" are going to save us from the Republicans
Herb Parsons
hparsons at parsonsys.com
Tue Sep 9 13:58:05 EDT 2008
I would agree, except in this case, the individual's religious belifs
involve yet another individual. You are advocating that a woman be
allowed to kill another living human based on HER religious beliefs, not
those of that living human.
Rik Sandberg wrote:
> Herb,
>
> Well, here you go my friend. War is a terrible analogy.
>
> IF we are going to have freedom OF religion, which would also include
> freedom FROM religion and the abortion issue is mostly decided on a
> religious (or non-religious, choice again) basis, it is not our place to
> expect anyone else to assume our religious beliefs.
>
> Which leads us right back to; the gov't should have no voice in this at all.
>
> Rik
>
> Ayn Rand was a prophet - - it isn't my fault
>
>
>
> Herb Parsons wrote:
>
>> I like your honest assessment on Palin, but I disagree about your
>> labeling of the position.
>>
>> If I say I'm not going to fight in a war, but it's OK if my government
>> attacks another, am I anti-war, or pro-war?
>>
>> Obviously, you'll not have an abortion, that would mean a male could be
>> neither pro or anti; however, anyone that believes the issue does not
>> affect me is wearing blinders.
>>
>>
>> Rik Sandberg wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Herb,
>>>
>>> Agreed. Palin claims no more religiousity (is that a word, sounds good)
>>> than either of the other three candidates involved. She has also shown
>>> that she can govern without forcing forcing those beliefs on her
>>> constituents.
>>>
>>> On the abortion issue: Yep, she's against them, for her. So am I, for
>>> me. I am pro-choice. People just can't seem to get a handle on the idea
>>> that pro-choice doesn't mean anti or pro abortion. It means you should
>>> be able to make your own choice and let others make theirs, ie, mind
>>> your own business.
>>>
>>> From what I've seen Palin, as governor of Alaska has been doing this too.
>>>
>>> If I had my way, the federal gov't wouldn't be involved in abortion at all.
>>>
>>> Rik
>>>
>>> Ayn Rand was a prophet - - it isn't my fault
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Stan,
>>>>
>>>> What evidence do you have that would lead you to believe that Palin
>>>> would force her religious belief on anyone? My understanding is that
>>>> she's all for allowing the individual states to set the standard.
>>>> However, that's really beside the point. As you said, anyone's pinpoint
>>>> of the exact time is a "religious" matter, or a matter of fath, thus
>>>> ANYONE setting pinpointed time would be them foisting their beliefs on
>>>> others.
>>>>
>>>> Surely you're not advocating allowing the parents to decide at any time
>>>> they choose, up to and including while the "fetus" is still in college?
>>>>
>>>> stan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Slim,
>>>>>
>>>>> As a member of your religious faith, and an ardent fan, if you really plan
>>>>> to skip voting (in effect voting for those whose direct religious
>>>>> instructions got us into such a waste of our wealth and blood) I would be
>>>>> truly saddened. I don't think poorly of John's and Palin's inability to
>>>>> live up to their own family values, relying on their gods to forgive them -
>>>>> I worry about their health; a topic that seems to be forbidden to address.
>>>>> John's cheek is not like that from his prisoner days and his vp could be our
>>>>> leader without notice. Then where would this country's founding desire for
>>>>> religious freedom end up? The first example is already on the table and
>>>>> Catholic Joe has it right: When life starts is a religious opinion and
>>>>> should not be one decided by government. You may feel life does not start
>>>>> until a breath is taken, the Jews count a number of months before the start,
>>>>> the Christens count from the moment the cells begin dividing. Personally I
>>>>> don't think it starts until after college. If we allow a Palin to call such
>>>>> shots we are on a path Jefferson and all those other smart guys insisted on
>>>>> avoiding. McCain told the TV interviewer that if he had his way the first
>>>>> judge he would get rid of is Ginsberg and than went down the list of her
>>>>> kind. Once this is allowed to start (we already have allowed god onto our
>>>>> coins), god (hypocritically speaking) help us - or we will all, eventually,
>>>>> become strong advocates of the second amendment.
>>>>>
>>>>> John, at least is a flip flopper so, if elected, would probably revert to
>>>>> many of his reasonable positions. It is Palin I am fearful will give us
>>>>> even worse than another 8 years. (And this from a confessed womanizer.)
>>>>>
>>>>> stan/ec
>>>>> .
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Steven Alm" <stevenalm at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 2:02 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus,the "evolutionists" are going to
>>>>> save us from the Republicans
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Todd,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm an atheist and I think Palin's a religious kook. And you're right, I
>>>>>> won't vote for a religious kook. I haven't studied Darwin very much (and
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> applaud your research and quotes) but I don't think that's the only rebuke
>>>>>> to creationism. Since most of the species of plant and animal life on
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> earth are in fact extinct, I'd call that "unintelligent design."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You said there are only two possibilities as to how life started. Are you
>>>>>> sure? How do you know this? What I know is that all religions serve in
>>>>>> answering three questions: Where did we come from, how do we live and
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> happens when we die? Myself, I've answered those questions to my own
>>>>>> satisfaction and I don't need the church to tell me anything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Todd Tavares <sprocket80 at mail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Slim, Wow! are you are going to vote for Obama because he is a Marxist
>>>>>>> or not vote for McCain just because Palin is a religious extremist? :^D
>>>>>>> Glad you mentioned carbon dating. Carbon has been proven by many
>>>>>>> scientists to be a wholly inaccurate method of dating. I am far from
>>>>>>> being a scientist...or a religious kook thinking the earth is only a
>>>>>>> couple of thousand of years old, but there is just as much scientific
>>>>>>> information out there to; while not proving creation is the truth, surely
>>>>>>> proves evolution is improbable if not impossible. You are/were an
>>>>>>> educator and were taught evolution from a text book, like we all were.
>>>>>>> Just because you read something in a text book does not make it truth.
>>>>>>> http://www.darwins-theory-of-evolution.com/ Maybe we could all stomach
>>>>>>> creationism if we called it a theory too. After all that is what
>>>>>>> evolution is...just an unproven theory. There are equally as many
>>>>>>> scientists out there who believe they have proven evolution is myth. It
>>>>>>> was not Darwin's brainstorm anyway. He thought he could further explain
>>>>>>> a centuries old belief; that life arose from non life and everything
>>>>>>> sprang from a common ancestor. Modern scientists say it was that first
>>>>>>> amino acid or protein chain in the pool of "primordial ooze." I like how
>>>>>>> one Nobel prize winner (Biology 1967?) put it:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "There are only two possibilities as to how life arose; one is
>>>>>>> spontaneous generation arising to evolution, the other is a supernatural
>>>>>>> creative act of God, there is no third possibility. Spontaneous
>>>>>>> generation that life arose from non-living matter was scientifically
>>>>>>> disproved 120 years ago by Louis Pasteur and others. That leaves us with
>>>>>>> only one possible conclusion, that life arose as a creative act of God. I
>>>>>>> will not accept that philosophically because I do not want to believe in
>>>>>>> God, therefore I choose to believe in that which I know is scientifically
>>>>>>> impossible, spontaneous generation arising to evolution."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Dr. George Wald, evolutionist, Professor Emeritus of Biology at the
>>>>>>> University at Harvard, Nobel Prize winner in Biology.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But the most interesting fact is that even Darwin himself realized
>>>>>>> evolution was not workable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for
>>>>>>> adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different
>>>>>>> amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic
>>>>>>> aberration, could have formed by natural selection, seems, I freely
>>>>>>> confess, absurd in the highest degree possible." (Charles Darwin, "The
>>>>>>> origin of species by means of natural selection")
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could
>>>>>>> not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight
>>>>>>> modifications, my theory would absolutely break down." (Charles Darwin,
>>>>>>> "The Origin of Species")
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Often a cold shudder has run through me, and I have asked myself whether
>>>>>>> I may have not devoted myself to a fantasy." (Charles Darwin, Life and
>>>>>>> Letters, 1887, Vol. 2, p. 229)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I could post a few hundred quotes from noted doctors and scientists to
>>>>>>> try to "prove" evolution wrong or creation right. I could "do my
>>>>>>> homework" as we say here on the list and cite actual findings, but that
>>>>>>> is not necessary. Because to dismiss the possibility of God or some other
>>>>>>> Intelligent Designer makes it easier to accept our notions that it is ok
>>>>>>> to be a homosexual (and not allow me a choice when the schools teach this
>>>>>>> gargage to my kids while denying the right to learn about the theory of
>>>>>>> creation along with evolution) or that it should be a crime to kill a
>>>>>>> tree, but ok to kill an unborn baby. Not to say everyone believing in
>>>>>>> evolution is an athiest (or a Democrat), but you have made me see this as
>>>>>>> a hinge factor in how I will vote....real issues aside.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Todd T
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Besides, it is not very PC to say we evolved (were "selected") from apes.
>>>>>>> We don't want any of the apes that were not selected to be made to feel
>>>>>>> inferior.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Steven Alm"
>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus, the Republicans are going to
>>>>>>> save us from the Republicans
>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 13:11:17 -0500
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Ahh, so the "tolerant" lefty has a litmus test for religious beliefs."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, I require that the candidates be sane, critical thinkers. Palin is
>>>>>>> obviously not. I wouldn't say that if she were a Catholic or a Lutheran
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> here's a woman who wants to stare down the whole scientific community and
>>>>>>> deny things like carbon 14 dating and declare that the heavens and earth
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> only a few thousand years old. You didn't just call ME an extremist, did
>>>>>>> you?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brad, you left out the part of Kroon saying that his parishioners should
>>>>>>> pray for the completion of the pipeline because at the end of the world,
>>>>>>> folks will flock to Alaska as their final refuge.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can't believe that was you quoting all that God stuff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 12:18 PM, Steven Alm wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "She's already demonstrated that she is fully capable of separating her
>>>>>>>> personal beliefs from her duties."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wouldn't it be better if she didn't have to?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 6:18 AM, Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ahh, so the "tolerant" lefty has a litmus test for religious beliefs.
>>>>>>>>> She's already demonstrated that she is fully capable of separating her
>>>>>>>>> personal beliefs from her duties. She vetoed a bill that would have
>>>>>>>>> denied benefits to gay couples.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But, you extremists keep it up, I'm sure you'll find (or make up)
>>>>>>>>> SOMETHING on her.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Steven Alm wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> She's a creationist. Her Assembly of God stuff is a deal breaker for
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Religious extremism cannot be tolerated.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The most important legacy the president leaves is the appointment of
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> supreme court.
>>>>>>>>>> The next pres might appoint as many as three. If Sarabaracuda has
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> way,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> say goodbye to Roe V. Wade and hello to back-ally coat hanger
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> abortions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Herb Parsons
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think it's funny that the candidate that was considered as a
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> running
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> mate for the Democratic choice a few years back, is now being
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> touted as
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "more of the same". Keep trying though, you guys may find something
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> works.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What exactly makes Palin a "religious kook", that fact that's she
>>>>>>>>>>> religious? I think your colors are beginning to show.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> petelargo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben, thanks for your post. As you may have noticed, there is no
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> dialogue
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the right-wing extremists. You are wrong, end of discussion and
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> idiot to boot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> When John McCain won the nomination, Bush disappears overseas. At
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> RNC,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> no Bush, no Cheney (and no mention of them). They know it's a
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> failed
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> administration. Where were the solutions. Once again, they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> frame the campaign as an ideology argument rather than an issues
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Today on Face the Nation, "Sis Cum Ba and WHA-LAA", McCain is now
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate and stated that he will end the incredible corruption in
>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington and the failed policies. John McCain has re-defined a
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> whole
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> level of flip-flopping on over two dozen key issues within the
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> last
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> eight
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> years including his own authored bill that he was for and now
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> against.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I couldn't give a poop about the experience argument of Palin vs
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Obama.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> a waste of time. The entire Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Rice-Rove, etc
>>>>>>>>>>>> administration could be argued to be the most experienced
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> administration
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the history of the White House. A huge amount of prior "executive
>>>>>>>>>>>> experience". For the first time in recent politics the Republicans
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> power in the white house, judicial, house and senate. How was it
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> you?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's one thing to drive a tractor trailer up our butts, but when
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> blowing on the horn while there're doing it, it's really gone too
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> far.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> A big thank you for the memories: the debt, the dead, the twisting
>>>>>>>>>>>> intelligence to "sell" us a war on a country that did not attack
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> us,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> good ol boy ineffectual cronyism, and finally the shredding of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> constitution. With Palin we now we get to have another religious
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> kook
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfy the so-called conservative extremist religious right to
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 'bridge'
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> them into this administration and get money.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Spending 5-10 billion dollars a month on Iraq and kissing chinese
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ass
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> (borrowing the money) of the most Marxist suppressive government
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> planet at this time is a conservative value?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Finally, the biggest hypocrisy of all . That these extremists
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> that they and the republicans are the vanguards of conservatism?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> top key pillars of conservatism are less government and government
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> intrusion
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> and fiscal responsibility. The only administration that walked
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> talk
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 50 years was a Democrat that left Bush a 500 billion dollar
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> surplus.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> blew
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> threw that in one year and it was prior to 9-11. And there is no
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> greater
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> government intrusion that being told what you can or cannot do
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> with or
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> put
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> into your body. Palin wants privacy for her family decisions, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> wants
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> to legislate publicly what you should do with yours. No thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben Cittadino-2 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Dear Culture Warriors;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So....are we having fun yet?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> First, I'd like to thank Richard and Slim for stepping up to join
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Assault on the Citadel".
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The bullets don't sting as much when the adversary's fire is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> spread
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> among more than one target.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the words first uttered by Gen. "Vinegar Joe" Stillwell,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "illegitimi
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> non carborundum".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for Tootle, Brad, and Herb, you guys crack me up. I posted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Obama
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> only because I saw Tootle's post that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested anybody supporting Obama was either a marxist, or a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> farm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> animal.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What did he expect when he said that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb, where was your outrage that Tootle would refer to some of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> fellow
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Rhodies" in such derogatry terms? Supporting Obama or McCain
>>>>>>>>>>>>> may turn out to be right or wrong, but if we debate policy and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> engage in mere name-calling this "sailor's bar" could be an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> interesting
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> place.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Richard's "geezer" remarks are defensible on several grounds.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was provoked. Second, he was defending ME.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Third, it was funny. Calling someone a "marxist" as Tootle did is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> several
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> magnitudes worse than gentle kidding of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "old fart" kind. Surely you see the difference.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The positions I tried to lay out as reasons some people support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Obama
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended as an outline of ideology (as Slim noted),
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an argument supporting any position. For example, Herb, you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pro-life and will probably vote for McCain/Palin in part for that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am pro-choice, pro-embryonic stem cell research and so I will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama/Biden in part for that reason. It is not hyperbole to point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the policy differences that explain my choice. What I know for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that marxism and "sheepiness" have nothing to do with it. I have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> thought
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about all of my positions on the issues I mentioned and am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepared to explain and justify them. In Brad's oft' repeated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> mantra
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> know I have "done my homework".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Enough for today. The games will be on soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben C. , s/v Susan Kay, Highlands, NJ
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Be Yourself @ mail.com!
>>>>>>> Choose From 200+ Email Addresses
>>>>>>> Get a Free Account at www.mail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
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