[Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus, the "evolutionists" are going to save us from the Republicans
Herb Parsons
hparsons at parsonsys.com
Tue Sep 9 14:42:06 EDT 2008
Pete, sorry buddy, but as long as someone is killing another human, it's
EVERYONE's business.
petelargo wrote:
> It sure sounds like a 'I want the government out of our lives except for my
> religious beliefs' conservative.
> If it's your belief that a woman is killing another human being, then in the
> privacy of your family exercise your belief and don't do it, and leave the
> government and the rest of us out of it.
>
>
> hparsons wrote:
>
>> I would agree, except in this case, the individual's religious belifs
>> involve yet another individual. You are advocating that a woman be
>> allowed to kill another living human based on HER religious beliefs, not
>> those of that living human.
>>
>> Rik Sandberg wrote:
>>
>>> Herb,
>>>
>>> Well, here you go my friend. War is a terrible analogy.
>>>
>>> IF we are going to have freedom OF religion, which would also include
>>> freedom FROM religion and the abortion issue is mostly decided on a
>>> religious (or non-religious, choice again) basis, it is not our place to
>>> expect anyone else to assume our religious beliefs.
>>>
>>> Which leads us right back to; the gov't should have no voice in this at
>>> all.
>>>
>>> Rik
>>>
>>> Ayn Rand was a prophet - - it isn't my fault
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I like your honest assessment on Palin, but I disagree about your
>>>> labeling of the position.
>>>>
>>>> If I say I'm not going to fight in a war, but it's OK if my government
>>>> attacks another, am I anti-war, or pro-war?
>>>>
>>>> Obviously, you'll not have an abortion, that would mean a male could be
>>>> neither pro or anti; however, anyone that believes the issue does not
>>>> affect me is wearing blinders.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rik Sandberg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Herb,
>>>>>
>>>>> Agreed. Palin claims no more religiousity (is that a word, sounds good)
>>>>> than either of the other three candidates involved. She has also shown
>>>>> that she can govern without forcing forcing those beliefs on her
>>>>> constituents.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the abortion issue: Yep, she's against them, for her. So am I, for
>>>>> me. I am pro-choice. People just can't seem to get a handle on the idea
>>>>> that pro-choice doesn't mean anti or pro abortion. It means you should
>>>>> be able to make your own choice and let others make theirs, ie, mind
>>>>> your own business.
>>>>>
>>>>> From what I've seen Palin, as governor of Alaska has been doing this
>>>>> too.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I had my way, the federal gov't wouldn't be involved in abortion at
>>>>> all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rik
>>>>>
>>>>> Ayn Rand was a prophet - - it isn't my fault
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Stan,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What evidence do you have that would lead you to believe that Palin
>>>>>> would force her religious belief on anyone? My understanding is that
>>>>>> she's all for allowing the individual states to set the standard.
>>>>>> However, that's really beside the point. As you said, anyone's
>>>>>> pinpoint
>>>>>> of the exact time is a "religious" matter, or a matter of fath, thus
>>>>>> ANYONE setting pinpointed time would be them foisting their beliefs on
>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Surely you're not advocating allowing the parents to decide at any
>>>>>> time
>>>>>> they choose, up to and including while the "fetus" is still in
>>>>>> college?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> stan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Slim,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As a member of your religious faith, and an ardent fan, if you really
>>>>>>> plan
>>>>>>> to skip voting (in effect voting for those whose direct religious
>>>>>>> instructions got us into such a waste of our wealth and blood) I
>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>> truly saddened. I don't think poorly of John's and Palin's
>>>>>>> inability to
>>>>>>> live up to their own family values, relying on their gods to forgive
>>>>>>> them -
>>>>>>> I worry about their health; a topic that seems to be forbidden to
>>>>>>> address.
>>>>>>> John's cheek is not like that from his prisoner days and his vp could
>>>>>>> be our
>>>>>>> leader without notice. Then where would this country's founding
>>>>>>> desire for
>>>>>>> religious freedom end up? The first example is already on the table
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> Catholic Joe has it right: When life starts is a religious opinion
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> should not be one decided by government. You may feel life does not
>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>> until a breath is taken, the Jews count a number of months before the
>>>>>>> start,
>>>>>>> the Christens count from the moment the cells begin dividing.
>>>>>>> Personally I
>>>>>>> don't think it starts until after college. If we allow a Palin to
>>>>>>> call such
>>>>>>> shots we are on a path Jefferson and all those other smart guys
>>>>>>> insisted on
>>>>>>> avoiding. McCain told the TV interviewer that if he had his way the
>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>> judge he would get rid of is Ginsberg and than went down the list of
>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>> kind. Once this is allowed to start (we already have allowed god
>>>>>>> onto our
>>>>>>> coins), god (hypocritically speaking) help us - or we will all,
>>>>>>> eventually,
>>>>>>> become strong advocates of the second amendment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John, at least is a flip flopper so, if elected, would probably
>>>>>>> revert to
>>>>>>> many of his reasonable positions. It is Palin I am fearful will give
>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>> even worse than another 8 years. (And this from a confessed
>>>>>>> womanizer.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> stan/ec
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Steven Alm" <stevenalm at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 2:02 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus,the "evolutionists" are
>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>> save us from the Republicans
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Todd,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm an atheist and I think Palin's a religious kook. And you're
>>>>>>>> right, I
>>>>>>>> won't vote for a religious kook. I haven't studied Darwin very much
>>>>>>>> (and
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> applaud your research and quotes) but I don't think that's the only
>>>>>>>> rebuke
>>>>>>>> to creationism. Since most of the species of plant and animal life
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> earth are in fact extinct, I'd call that "unintelligent design."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You said there are only two possibilities as to how life started.
>>>>>>>> Are you
>>>>>>>> sure? How do you know this? What I know is that all religions
>>>>>>>> serve in
>>>>>>>> answering three questions: Where did we come from, how do we live
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>> happens when we die? Myself, I've answered those questions to my
>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>> satisfaction and I don't need the church to tell me anything.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Todd Tavares <sprocket80 at mail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Slim, Wow! are you are going to vote for Obama because he is a
>>>>>>>>> Marxist
>>>>>>>>> or not vote for McCain just because Palin is a religious extremist?
>>>>>>>>> :^D
>>>>>>>>> Glad you mentioned carbon dating. Carbon has been proven by many
>>>>>>>>> scientists to be a wholly inaccurate method of dating. I am far
>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>> being a scientist...or a religious kook thinking the earth is only
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> couple of thousand of years old, but there is just as much
>>>>>>>>> scientific
>>>>>>>>> information out there to; while not proving creation is the truth,
>>>>>>>>> surely
>>>>>>>>> proves evolution is improbable if not impossible. You are/were an
>>>>>>>>> educator and were taught evolution from a text book, like we all
>>>>>>>>> were.
>>>>>>>>> Just because you read something in a text book does not make it
>>>>>>>>> truth.
>>>>>>>>> http://www.darwins-theory-of-evolution.com/ Maybe we could all
>>>>>>>>> stomach
>>>>>>>>> creationism if we called it a theory too. After all that is what
>>>>>>>>> evolution is...just an unproven theory. There are equally as many
>>>>>>>>> scientists out there who believe they have proven evolution is
>>>>>>>>> myth. It
>>>>>>>>> was not Darwin's brainstorm anyway. He thought he could further
>>>>>>>>> explain
>>>>>>>>> a centuries old belief; that life arose from non life and
>>>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>> sprang from a common ancestor. Modern scientists say it was that
>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>> amino acid or protein chain in the pool of "primordial ooze." I
>>>>>>>>> like how
>>>>>>>>> one Nobel prize winner (Biology 1967?) put it:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "There are only two possibilities as to how life arose; one is
>>>>>>>>> spontaneous generation arising to evolution, the other is a
>>>>>>>>> supernatural
>>>>>>>>> creative act of God, there is no third possibility. Spontaneous
>>>>>>>>> generation that life arose from non-living matter was
>>>>>>>>> scientifically
>>>>>>>>> disproved 120 years ago by Louis Pasteur and others. That leaves us
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> only one possible conclusion, that life arose as a creative act of
>>>>>>>>> God. I
>>>>>>>>> will not accept that philosophically because I do not want to
>>>>>>>>> believe in
>>>>>>>>> God, therefore I choose to believe in that which I know is
>>>>>>>>> scientifically
>>>>>>>>> impossible, spontaneous generation arising to evolution."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (Dr. George Wald, evolutionist, Professor Emeritus of Biology at
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> University at Harvard, Nobel Prize winner in Biology.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But the most interesting fact is that even Darwin himself realized
>>>>>>>>> evolution was not workable.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for
>>>>>>>>> adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different
>>>>>>>>> amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic
>>>>>>>>> aberration, could have formed by natural selection, seems, I freely
>>>>>>>>> confess, absurd in the highest degree possible." (Charles Darwin,
>>>>>>>>> "The
>>>>>>>>> origin of species by means of natural selection")
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which
>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>> not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight
>>>>>>>>> modifications, my theory would absolutely break down." (Charles
>>>>>>>>> Darwin,
>>>>>>>>> "The Origin of Species")
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Often a cold shudder has run through me, and I have asked myself
>>>>>>>>> whether
>>>>>>>>> I may have not devoted myself to a fantasy." (Charles Darwin, Life
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> Letters, 1887, Vol. 2, p. 229)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I could post a few hundred quotes from noted doctors and scientists
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> try to "prove" evolution wrong or creation right. I could "do my
>>>>>>>>> homework" as we say here on the list and cite actual findings, but
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> is not necessary. Because to dismiss the possibility of God or some
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>> Intelligent Designer makes it easier to accept our notions that it
>>>>>>>>> is ok
>>>>>>>>> to be a homosexual (and not allow me a choice when the schools
>>>>>>>>> teach this
>>>>>>>>> gargage to my kids while denying the right to learn about the
>>>>>>>>> theory of
>>>>>>>>> creation along with evolution) or that it should be a crime to kill
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> tree, but ok to kill an unborn baby. Not to say everyone believing
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> evolution is an athiest (or a Democrat), but you have made me see
>>>>>>>>> this as
>>>>>>>>> a hinge factor in how I will vote....real issues aside.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Todd T
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Besides, it is not very PC to say we evolved (were "selected") from
>>>>>>>>> apes.
>>>>>>>>> We don't want any of the apes that were not selected to be made to
>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>> inferior.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Steven Alm"
>>>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus, the Republicans are
>>>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>>>> save us from the Republicans
>>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 13:11:17 -0500
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Ahh, so the "tolerant" lefty has a litmus test for religious
>>>>>>>>> beliefs."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, I require that the candidates be sane, critical thinkers.
>>>>>>>>> Palin is
>>>>>>>>> obviously not. I wouldn't say that if she were a Catholic or a
>>>>>>>>> Lutheran
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> here's a woman who wants to stare down the whole scientific
>>>>>>>>> community and
>>>>>>>>> deny things like carbon 14 dating and declare that the heavens and
>>>>>>>>> earth
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> only a few thousand years old. You didn't just call ME an
>>>>>>>>> extremist, did
>>>>>>>>> you?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Brad, you left out the part of Kroon saying that his parishioners
>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>> pray for the completion of the pipeline because at the end of the
>>>>>>>>> world,
>>>>>>>>> folks will flock to Alaska as their final refuge.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I can't believe that was you quoting all that God stuff.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 12:18 PM, Steven Alm wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "She's already demonstrated that she is fully capable of
>>>>>>>>>> separating her
>>>>>>>>>> personal beliefs from her duties."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Wouldn't it be better if she didn't have to?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 6:18 AM, Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ahh, so the "tolerant" lefty has a litmus test for religious
>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs.
>>>>>>>>>>> She's already demonstrated that she is fully capable of
>>>>>>>>>>> separating her
>>>>>>>>>>> personal beliefs from her duties. She vetoed a bill that would
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> denied benefits to gay couples.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But, you extremists keep it up, I'm sure you'll find (or make up)
>>>>>>>>>>> SOMETHING on her.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Steven Alm wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> She's a creationist. Her Assembly of God stuff is a deal breaker
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Religious extremism cannot be tolerated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The most important legacy the president leaves is the
>>>>>>>>>>>> appointment of
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> supreme court.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The next pres might appoint as many as three. If Sarabaracuda
>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> way,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> say goodbye to Roe V. Wade and hello to back-ally coat hanger
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> abortions.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Herb Parsons
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think it's funny that the candidate that was considered as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> running
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mate for the Democratic choice a few years back, is now being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> touted as
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "more of the same". Keep trying though, you guys may find
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What exactly makes Palin a "religious kook", that fact that's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>>>>>>>> religious? I think your colors are beginning to show.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> petelargo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben, thanks for your post. As you may have noticed, there is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> dialogue
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the right-wing extremists. You are wrong, end of discussion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idiot to boot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When John McCain won the nomination, Bush disappears overseas.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> RNC,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no Bush, no Cheney (and no mention of them). They know it's a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> failed
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> administration. Where were the solutions. Once again, they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> frame the campaign as an ideology argument rather than an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Today on Face the Nation, "Sis Cum Ba and WHA-LAA", McCain is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate and stated that he will end the incredible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corruption in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington and the failed policies. John McCain has re-defined
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> whole
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level of flip-flopping on over two dozen key issues within the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> last
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> eight
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years including his own authored bill that he was for and now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> against.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I couldn't give a poop about the experience argument of Palin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Obama.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a waste of time. The entire Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Rice-Rove,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> administration could be argued to be the most experienced
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> administration
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the history of the White House. A huge amount of prior
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "executive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience". For the first time in recent politics the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Republicans
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> power in the white house, judicial, house and senate. How was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> you?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's one thing to drive a tractor trailer up our butts, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blowing on the horn while there're doing it, it's really gone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> far.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A big thank you for the memories: the debt, the dead, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> twisting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intelligence to "sell" us a war on a country that did not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attack
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> us,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good ol boy ineffectual cronyism, and finally the shredding of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constitution. With Palin we now we get to have another
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> religious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> kook
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfy the so-called conservative extremist religious right
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 'bridge'
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them into this administration and get money.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spending 5-10 billion dollars a month on Iraq and kissing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chinese
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ass
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (borrowing the money) of the most Marxist suppressive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> planet at this time is a conservative value?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Finally, the biggest hypocrisy of all . That these extremists
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they and the republicans are the vanguards of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conservatism?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> top key pillars of conservatism are less government and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> intrusion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and fiscal responsibility. The only administration that walked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> talk
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 50 years was a Democrat that left Bush a 500 billion dollar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> surplus.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blew
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> threw that in one year and it was prior to 9-11. And there is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> greater
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government intrusion that being told what you can or cannot do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> with or
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into your body. Palin wants privacy for her family decisions,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wants
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to legislate publicly what you should do with yours. No
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben Cittadino-2 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Dear Culture Warriors;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So....are we having fun yet?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First, I'd like to thank Richard and Slim for stepping up to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> join
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Assault on the Citadel".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The bullets don't sting as much when the adversary's fire is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> spread
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> among more than one target.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the words first uttered by Gen. "Vinegar Joe" Stillwell,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "illegitimi
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non carborundum".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for Tootle, Brad, and Herb, you guys crack me up. I posted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only because I saw Tootle's post that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested anybody supporting Obama was either a marxist, or a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> farm
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> animal.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What did he expect when he said that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb, where was your outrage that Tootle would refer to some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fellow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Rhodies" in such derogatry terms? Supporting Obama or McCain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may turn out to be right or wrong, but if we debate policy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> engage in mere name-calling this "sailor's bar" could be an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> interesting
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> place.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Richard's "geezer" remarks are defensible on several grounds.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> First,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was provoked. Second, he was defending ME.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Third, it was funny. Calling someone a "marxist" as Tootle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> several
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> magnitudes worse than gentle kidding of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "old fart" kind. Surely you see the difference.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The positions I tried to lay out as reasons some people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Obama
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended as an outline of ideology (as Slim noted),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an argument supporting any position. For example, Herb,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pro-life and will probably vote for McCain/Palin in part for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am pro-choice, pro-embryonic stem cell research and so I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama/Biden in part for that reason. It is not hyperbole to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the policy differences that explain my choice. What I know
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that marxism and "sheepiness" have nothing to do with it. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> thought
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about all of my positions on the issues I mentioned and am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepared to explain and justify them. In Brad's oft' repeated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> mantra
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know I have "done my homework".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Enough for today. The games will be on soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben C. , s/v Susan Kay, Highlands, NJ
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> list go
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> go to
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Be Yourself @ mail.com!
>>>>>>>>> Choose From 200+ Email Addresses
>>>>>>>>> Get a Free Account at www.mail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
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