[Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus, the "evolutionists" are going to save us from the Republicans
Herb Parsons
hparsons at parsonsys.com
Tue Sep 9 15:06:16 EDT 2008
Resent away Michael, but what did I "present as fact"?
And, beliefs aside, my reasoning is not "circular". I believe very much
in an individual's right to decide for themselves what they will and
will not do. However, when that decision directly affects another,
especially the life of another, than it is not the one individual's
choice to make.
Michael D. Weisner wrote:
> Herb,
>
> It always amazes me that you have no problem putting your beliefs and
> opinions in the form of fact in your arguments. The interesting thing is
> that the more I agree with the basic principles of these discussions, the
> more I resent your reasoning. While we may reach the same conclusion, the
> paths are significantly diverse.
>
> My opinions and beliefs aside, I think that in order to state "I would
> agree, except in this case, the individual's religious belifs (sic) involve
> yet another individual," one must employ circular reasoning, thus defeating
> the value of the statement.
>
> Mike
> s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
> Nissequogue River, NY
>
> From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>Sent: Tuesday, September 09,
> 2008 1:58 PM
>
>> I would agree, except in this case, the individual's religious belifs
>> involve yet another individual. You are advocating that a woman be
>> allowed to kill another living human based on HER religious beliefs, not
>> those of that living human.
>>
>> Rik Sandberg wrote:
>>
>>> Herb,
>>>
>>> Well, here you go my friend. War is a terrible analogy.
>>>
>>> IF we are going to have freedom OF religion, which would also include
>>> freedom FROM religion and the abortion issue is mostly decided on a
>>> religious (or non-religious, choice again) basis, it is not our place to
>>> expect anyone else to assume our religious beliefs.
>>>
>>> Which leads us right back to; the gov't should have no voice in this at
>>> all.
>>>
>>> Rik
>>>
>>> Ayn Rand was a prophet - - it isn't my fault
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I like your honest assessment on Palin, but I disagree about your
>>>> labeling of the position.
>>>>
>>>> If I say I'm not going to fight in a war, but it's OK if my government
>>>> attacks another, am I anti-war, or pro-war?
>>>>
>>>> Obviously, you'll not have an abortion, that would mean a male could be
>>>> neither pro or anti; however, anyone that believes the issue does not
>>>> affect me is wearing blinders.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rik Sandberg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Herb,
>>>>>
>>>>> Agreed. Palin claims no more religiousity (is that a word, sounds good)
>>>>> than either of the other three candidates involved. She has also shown
>>>>> that she can govern without forcing forcing those beliefs on her
>>>>> constituents.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the abortion issue: Yep, she's against them, for her. So am I, for
>>>>> me. I am pro-choice. People just can't seem to get a handle on the idea
>>>>> that pro-choice doesn't mean anti or pro abortion. It means you should
>>>>> be able to make your own choice and let others make theirs, ie, mind
>>>>> your own business.
>>>>>
>>>>> From what I've seen Palin, as governor of Alaska has been doing this
>>>>> too.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I had my way, the federal gov't wouldn't be involved in abortion at
>>>>> all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rik
>>>>>
>>>>> Ayn Rand was a prophet - - it isn't my fault
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Stan,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What evidence do you have that would lead you to believe that Palin
>>>>>> would force her religious belief on anyone? My understanding is that
>>>>>> she's all for allowing the individual states to set the standard.
>>>>>> However, that's really beside the point. As you said, anyone's
>>>>>> pinpoint
>>>>>> of the exact time is a "religious" matter, or a matter of fath, thus
>>>>>> ANYONE setting pinpointed time would be them foisting their beliefs on
>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Surely you're not advocating allowing the parents to decide at any
>>>>>> time
>>>>>> they choose, up to and including while the "fetus" is still in
>>>>>> college?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> stan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Slim,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As a member of your religious faith, and an ardent fan, if you really
>>>>>>> plan
>>>>>>> to skip voting (in effect voting for those whose direct religious
>>>>>>> instructions got us into such a waste of our wealth and blood) I
>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>> truly saddened. I don't think poorly of John's and Palin's
>>>>>>> inability to
>>>>>>> live up to their own family values, relying on their gods to forgive
>>>>>>> them -
>>>>>>> I worry about their health; a topic that seems to be forbidden to
>>>>>>> address.
>>>>>>> John's cheek is not like that from his prisoner days and his vp could
>>>>>>> be our
>>>>>>> leader without notice. Then where would this country's founding
>>>>>>> desire for
>>>>>>> religious freedom end up? The first example is already on the table
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> Catholic Joe has it right: When life starts is a religious opinion
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> should not be one decided by government. You may feel life does not
>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>> until a breath is taken, the Jews count a number of months before the
>>>>>>> start,
>>>>>>> the Christens count from the moment the cells begin dividing.
>>>>>>> Personally I
>>>>>>> don't think it starts until after college. If we allow a Palin to
>>>>>>> call such
>>>>>>> shots we are on a path Jefferson and all those other smart guys
>>>>>>> insisted on
>>>>>>> avoiding. McCain told the TV interviewer that if he had his way the
>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>> judge he would get rid of is Ginsberg and than went down the list of
>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>> kind. Once this is allowed to start (we already have allowed god
>>>>>>> onto our
>>>>>>> coins), god (hypocritically speaking) help us - or we will all,
>>>>>>> eventually,
>>>>>>> become strong advocates of the second amendment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John, at least is a flip flopper so, if elected, would probably
>>>>>>> revert to
>>>>>>> many of his reasonable positions. It is Palin I am fearful will give
>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>> even worse than another 8 years. (And this from a confessed
>>>>>>> womanizer.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> stan/ec
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Steven Alm" <stevenalm at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 2:02 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus,the "evolutionists" are
>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>> save us from the Republicans
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Todd,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm an atheist and I think Palin's a religious kook. And you're
>>>>>>>> right, I
>>>>>>>> won't vote for a religious kook. I haven't studied Darwin very much
>>>>>>>> (and
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> applaud your research and quotes) but I don't think that's the only
>>>>>>>> rebuke
>>>>>>>> to creationism. Since most of the species of plant and animal life
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> earth are in fact extinct, I'd call that "unintelligent design."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You said there are only two possibilities as to how life started.
>>>>>>>> Are you
>>>>>>>> sure? How do you know this? What I know is that all religions
>>>>>>>> serve in
>>>>>>>> answering three questions: Where did we come from, how do we live
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>> happens when we die? Myself, I've answered those questions to my
>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>> satisfaction and I don't need the church to tell me anything.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Todd Tavares <sprocket80 at mail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Slim, Wow! are you are going to vote for Obama because he is a
>>>>>>>>> Marxist
>>>>>>>>> or not vote for McCain just because Palin is a religious extremist?
>>>>>>>>> :^D
>>>>>>>>> Glad you mentioned carbon dating. Carbon has been proven by many
>>>>>>>>> scientists to be a wholly inaccurate method of dating. I am far
>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>> being a scientist...or a religious kook thinking the earth is only
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> couple of thousand of years old, but there is just as much
>>>>>>>>> scientific
>>>>>>>>> information out there to; while not proving creation is the truth,
>>>>>>>>> surely
>>>>>>>>> proves evolution is improbable if not impossible. You are/were an
>>>>>>>>> educator and were taught evolution from a text book, like we all
>>>>>>>>> were.
>>>>>>>>> Just because you read something in a text book does not make it
>>>>>>>>> truth.
>>>>>>>>> http://www.darwins-theory-of-evolution.com/ Maybe we could all
>>>>>>>>> stomach
>>>>>>>>> creationism if we called it a theory too. After all that is what
>>>>>>>>> evolution is...just an unproven theory. There are equally as many
>>>>>>>>> scientists out there who believe they have proven evolution is
>>>>>>>>> myth. It
>>>>>>>>> was not Darwin's brainstorm anyway. He thought he could further
>>>>>>>>> explain
>>>>>>>>> a centuries old belief; that life arose from non life and
>>>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>> sprang from a common ancestor. Modern scientists say it was that
>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>> amino acid or protein chain in the pool of "primordial ooze." I
>>>>>>>>> like how
>>>>>>>>> one Nobel prize winner (Biology 1967?) put it:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "There are only two possibilities as to how life arose; one is
>>>>>>>>> spontaneous generation arising to evolution, the other is a
>>>>>>>>> supernatural
>>>>>>>>> creative act of God, there is no third possibility. Spontaneous
>>>>>>>>> generation that life arose from non-living matter was
>>>>>>>>> scientifically
>>>>>>>>> disproved 120 years ago by Louis Pasteur and others. That leaves us
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> only one possible conclusion, that life arose as a creative act of
>>>>>>>>> God. I
>>>>>>>>> will not accept that philosophically because I do not want to
>>>>>>>>> believe in
>>>>>>>>> God, therefore I choose to believe in that which I know is
>>>>>>>>> scientifically
>>>>>>>>> impossible, spontaneous generation arising to evolution."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (Dr. George Wald, evolutionist, Professor Emeritus of Biology at
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> University at Harvard, Nobel Prize winner in Biology.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But the most interesting fact is that even Darwin himself realized
>>>>>>>>> evolution was not workable.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for
>>>>>>>>> adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different
>>>>>>>>> amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic
>>>>>>>>> aberration, could have formed by natural selection, seems, I freely
>>>>>>>>> confess, absurd in the highest degree possible." (Charles Darwin,
>>>>>>>>> "The
>>>>>>>>> origin of species by means of natural selection")
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which
>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>> not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight
>>>>>>>>> modifications, my theory would absolutely break down." (Charles
>>>>>>>>> Darwin,
>>>>>>>>> "The Origin of Species")
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Often a cold shudder has run through me, and I have asked myself
>>>>>>>>> whether
>>>>>>>>> I may have not devoted myself to a fantasy." (Charles Darwin, Life
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> Letters, 1887, Vol. 2, p. 229)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I could post a few hundred quotes from noted doctors and scientists
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> try to "prove" evolution wrong or creation right. I could "do my
>>>>>>>>> homework" as we say here on the list and cite actual findings, but
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> is not necessary. Because to dismiss the possibility of God or some
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>> Intelligent Designer makes it easier to accept our notions that it
>>>>>>>>> is ok
>>>>>>>>> to be a homosexual (and not allow me a choice when the schools
>>>>>>>>> teach this
>>>>>>>>> gargage to my kids while denying the right to learn about the
>>>>>>>>> theory of
>>>>>>>>> creation along with evolution) or that it should be a crime to kill
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> tree, but ok to kill an unborn baby. Not to say everyone believing
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> evolution is an athiest (or a Democrat), but you have made me see
>>>>>>>>> this as
>>>>>>>>> a hinge factor in how I will vote....real issues aside.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Todd T
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Besides, it is not very PC to say we evolved (were "selected") from
>>>>>>>>> apes.
>>>>>>>>> We don't want any of the apes that were not selected to be made to
>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>> inferior.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Steven Alm"
>>>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus, the Republicans are
>>>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>>>> save us from the Republicans
>>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 13:11:17 -0500
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Ahh, so the "tolerant" lefty has a litmus test for religious
>>>>>>>>> beliefs."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, I require that the candidates be sane, critical thinkers.
>>>>>>>>> Palin is
>>>>>>>>> obviously not. I wouldn't say that if she were a Catholic or a
>>>>>>>>> Lutheran
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> here's a woman who wants to stare down the whole scientific
>>>>>>>>> community and
>>>>>>>>> deny things like carbon 14 dating and declare that the heavens and
>>>>>>>>> earth
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> only a few thousand years old. You didn't just call ME an
>>>>>>>>> extremist, did
>>>>>>>>> you?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Brad, you left out the part of Kroon saying that his parishioners
>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>> pray for the completion of the pipeline because at the end of the
>>>>>>>>> world,
>>>>>>>>> folks will flock to Alaska as their final refuge.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I can't believe that was you quoting all that God stuff.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 12:18 PM, Steven Alm wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "She's already demonstrated that she is fully capable of
>>>>>>>>>> separating her
>>>>>>>>>> personal beliefs from her duties."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Wouldn't it be better if she didn't have to?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 6:18 AM, Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ahh, so the "tolerant" lefty has a litmus test for religious
>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs.
>>>>>>>>>>> She's already demonstrated that she is fully capable of
>>>>>>>>>>> separating her
>>>>>>>>>>> personal beliefs from her duties. She vetoed a bill that would
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> denied benefits to gay couples.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But, you extremists keep it up, I'm sure you'll find (or make up)
>>>>>>>>>>> SOMETHING on her.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Steven Alm wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> She's a creationist. Her Assembly of God stuff is a deal breaker
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Religious extremism cannot be tolerated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The most important legacy the president leaves is the
>>>>>>>>>>>> appointment of
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> supreme court.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The next pres might appoint as many as three. If Sarabaracuda
>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> way,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> say goodbye to Roe V. Wade and hello to back-ally coat hanger
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> abortions.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Herb Parsons
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think it's funny that the candidate that was considered as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> running
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mate for the Democratic choice a few years back, is now being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> touted as
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "more of the same". Keep trying though, you guys may find
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What exactly makes Palin a "religious kook", that fact that's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>>>>>>>> religious? I think your colors are beginning to show.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> petelargo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben, thanks for your post. As you may have noticed, there is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> dialogue
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the right-wing extremists. You are wrong, end of discussion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idiot to boot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When John McCain won the nomination, Bush disappears overseas.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> RNC,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no Bush, no Cheney (and no mention of them). They know it's a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> failed
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> administration. Where were the solutions. Once again, they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> frame the campaign as an ideology argument rather than an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Today on Face the Nation, "Sis Cum Ba and WHA-LAA", McCain is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate and stated that he will end the incredible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corruption in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington and the failed policies. John McCain has re-defined
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> whole
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level of flip-flopping on over two dozen key issues within the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> last
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> eight
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years including his own authored bill that he was for and now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> against.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I couldn't give a poop about the experience argument of Palin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Obama.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a waste of time. The entire Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Rice-Rove,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> administration could be argued to be the most experienced
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> administration
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the history of the White House. A huge amount of prior
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "executive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience". For the first time in recent politics the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Republicans
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> power in the white house, judicial, house and senate. How was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> you?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's one thing to drive a tractor trailer up our butts, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blowing on the horn while there're doing it, it's really gone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> far.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A big thank you for the memories: the debt, the dead, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> twisting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intelligence to "sell" us a war on a country that did not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attack
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> us,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good ol boy ineffectual cronyism, and finally the shredding of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constitution. With Palin we now we get to have another
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> religious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> kook
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfy the so-called conservative extremist religious right
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 'bridge'
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them into this administration and get money.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spending 5-10 billion dollars a month on Iraq and kissing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chinese
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ass
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (borrowing the money) of the most Marxist suppressive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> planet at this time is a conservative value?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Finally, the biggest hypocrisy of all . That these extremists
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they and the republicans are the vanguards of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conservatism?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> top key pillars of conservatism are less government and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> intrusion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and fiscal responsibility. The only administration that walked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> talk
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 50 years was a Democrat that left Bush a 500 billion dollar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> surplus.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blew
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> threw that in one year and it was prior to 9-11. And there is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> greater
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government intrusion that being told what you can or cannot do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> with or
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into your body. Palin wants privacy for her family decisions,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wants
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to legislate publicly what you should do with yours. No
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben Cittadino-2 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Dear Culture Warriors;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So....are we having fun yet?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First, I'd like to thank Richard and Slim for stepping up to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> join
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Assault on the Citadel".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The bullets don't sting as much when the adversary's fire is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> spread
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> among more than one target.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the words first uttered by Gen. "Vinegar Joe" Stillwell,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "illegitimi
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non carborundum".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for Tootle, Brad, and Herb, you guys crack me up. I posted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only because I saw Tootle's post that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested anybody supporting Obama was either a marxist, or a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> farm
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> animal.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What did he expect when he said that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb, where was your outrage that Tootle would refer to some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fellow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Rhodies" in such derogatry terms? Supporting Obama or McCain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may turn out to be right or wrong, but if we debate policy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> engage in mere name-calling this "sailor's bar" could be an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> interesting
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> place.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Richard's "geezer" remarks are defensible on several grounds.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> First,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was provoked. Second, he was defending ME.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Third, it was funny. Calling someone a "marxist" as Tootle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> several
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> magnitudes worse than gentle kidding of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "old fart" kind. Surely you see the difference.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The positions I tried to lay out as reasons some people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Obama
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended as an outline of ideology (as Slim noted),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an argument supporting any position. For example, Herb,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pro-life and will probably vote for McCain/Palin in part for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am pro-choice, pro-embryonic stem cell research and so I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama/Biden in part for that reason. It is not hyperbole to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the policy differences that explain my choice. What I know
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that marxism and "sheepiness" have nothing to do with it. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> thought
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about all of my positions on the issues I mentioned and am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepared to explain and justify them. In Brad's oft' repeated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> mantra
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know I have "done my homework".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Enough for today. The games will be on soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben C. , s/v Susan Kay, Highlands, NJ
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> list go
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> go to
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Be Yourself @ mail.com!
>>>>>>>>> Choose From 200+ Email Addresses
>>>>>>>>> Get a Free Account at www.mail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
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