[Rhodes22-list] Rik S., a question of when life begins and Ben C.'s comment thereon
Rik Sandberg
sanderico1 at gmail.com
Wed Sep 10 19:34:24 EDT 2008
Herb,
Seems then that we agree on the fetus's rights.
I don't try to speak for others.
Rik
Ayn Rand was a prophet - - it isn't my fault
Hank wrote:
> Rik,
>
> I am 100% behind Herb on this and here is my reasoning. The government
> regulates choices everyday. If you choose to rob a store, the gov't
> regulations provide for punishment. The issue is whether or not an abortion
> should be considered criminal. In my mind and according to my faith, all
> life is sacred, from the fetus a conception to the convicted murderer in
> prison. We do not have the right it indiscriminately take a life. I
> believe that life begins at conception and not some arbitrary point along
> the path towards birth.
>
> Hank
>
> On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Rik Sandberg <sanderico1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Herb,
>>
>> Nothing I have said should be construed to mean I would not try to
>> convince someone I know or might come in contact with that there might
>> not be a better solution to her pregnancy than an abortion. And, in fact
>> I have. I have said that I would not want an abortion in my family. I
>> have also said that I do not feel it is the federal government's place
>> to force their will on those who find themselves in the position of
>> having to make their choice.
>>
>> That said, I have said what I think on this matter. I don't need, nor
>> was I hoping to receive your approval.
>>
>> Rik
>>
>> Ayn Rand was a prophet - - it isn't my fault
>>
>>
>>
>> Herb Parsons wrote:
>>
>>> You do understand that I haven't "decided" the issue in order to judge.
>>>
>>> A civilization decides to "dehumanize" members of one race. Members of
>>> that civilization eventually come to their senses and decide to change
>>> it. That's not judgment, that's trying to make a change. Now, if you
>>> want me today to condemn those who practiced what was law at the time,
>>> THAT would be judgment. I have no need, or desire, to judge them.
>>>
>>> Today, we as a civilization are allowing the massacre of millions of
>>> unborn babies, primarily in the name of convenience for the mother. I
>>> don't care to retroactive punish, or even publicly humiliate, those
>>> individuals; however, I have no problem at all saying I believe that the
>>> practice is wrong, and more importantly, I believe our nation's flip
>>> attitude concerning the issue is wrong. Nor do I believe I'm doing
>>> anything wrong in trying to change our "corporate" tolerance of the
>>> practice. I'll continue to try to bring about that change for as long as
>>> I'm around.
>>>
>>>
>>> Rik Sandberg wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ed,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Having worked in medical imaging, I can say with certainty that the old
>>>>>
>> time
>>
>>>>> line is wrong. It may be the law, but the law is wrong because we now
>>>>>
>> have
>>
>>>>> pictures and other data to say it is wrong. It is not a religious
>>>>>
>> thing,
>>
>>>>> but now a factual thing.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> What an unborn embryo/fetus looks like in a picture has virtually
>>>> nothing to do with this issue. So, your facts are actually, just your
>>>> opinion. It has been known for a long time, long before before pictures
>>>> were possible, that, that clump of cells in a mothers womb was
>>>> eventually going to become a baby.
>>>>
>>>> As I have said previously, I will have to answer to my god when all is
>>>> said and done as will everyone else, whether they know or believe they
>>>> have a god or not. That may be a fact or not, but no one will know that
>>>> absolutely until it's too late for them to return to explain it to the
>>>> rest of us. 'Til then I will continue to try my best to judge not, lest
>>>> I be judged.
>>>>
>>>> Rik
>>>>
>>>> Ayn Rand was a prophet - - it isn't my fault
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tootle wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> RiK,
>>>>>
>>>>> When Roe v Wade was decided there was not accurate information
>>>>>
>> available to
>>
>>>>> answer the question with any certainty.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, science and medical tools have advanced. Just look at
>>>>>
>> Ultrasound
>>
>>>>> pictures and ecocardiograms available today.
>>>>>
>>>>> Today nobody is willing to look at current medical information and say
>>>>>
>> the
>>
>>>>> old time frame is not true, not accurate in light of modern
>>>>>
>> information.
>>
>>>>> I originally thought that your's and Ben's arguement were acceptable.
>>>>>
>> Ben
>>
>>>>> said, "It's a judgment call. It seems reasonable enough to me."
>>>>>
>>>>> Having worked in medical imaging, I can say with certainty that the old
>>>>>
>> time
>>
>>>>> line is wrong. It may be the law, but the law is wrong because we now
>>>>>
>> have
>>
>>>>> pictures and other data to say it is wrong. It is not a religious
>>>>>
>> thing,
>>
>>>>> but now a factual thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where is Alice on this subject. Still trying to start her Yamaha?
>>>>>
>>>>> Your opinion just walks away from killing. When you are in a nursing
>>>>>
>> home
>>
>>>>> and too feeble to stop them, will it be just as acceptable for them to
>>>>>
>> put a
>>
>>>>> blanket over your head and do a Dr. Kevorkian?
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I have had to change my opinion because the facts and
>>>>>
>> scientific
>>
>>>>> information are now available.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed K
>>>>> Greenville, SC, USA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Rik,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm with you. I only get to play God a few times a month when I'm
>>>>>> giving a checkride and even then there's "higher powers" that will
>>>>>> question my decisions. Here's a couple of neat videos of real people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://kdka.com/local/Palin.Down.Syndrome.2.809737.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.wpxi.com/video/17384228/index.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brad
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 7:48 PM, Rik Sandberg <sanderico1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ed,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not sure why you'd be asking me this question. I have already stated
>>>>>>> that I am not in favor of abortion, but I do mind my own business.
>>>>>>>
>> Also,
>>
>>>>>>> I am surely no expert on either the medical or scientific aspects of
>>>>>>> pregnancy/child bearing so this question, as others have said, is
>>>>>>> probably above my pay grade.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wouldn't like to see people performing the scenario, partial birth
>>>>>>> abortion I believe it is called, that Todd was talking about. I'm
>>>>>>>
>> pretty
>>
>>>>>>> sure that a fetus is truly a person by then.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One thing I do know is, nobody is going to have to answer for my sins
>>>>>>> but me. As such, since I am not without sin, I have no business
>>>>>>>
>> casting
>>
>>>>>>> stones.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rik
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ayn Rand was a prophet - - it isn't my fault
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tootle wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rik,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Using modern science and modern medical and scientific tools, when
>>>>>>>> exactly
>>>>>>>> does life begin? Disregard court opinions, which are just opinions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ed K
>>>>>>>> Greenville, SC, USA
>>>>>>>> addendum, 'Making right choices in gray areas is difficult. To be
>>>>>>>>
>> aware
>>
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the dilemma is not enough. There needs to be a moral sensitivity
>>>>>>>>
>> which
>>
>>>>>>>> remembers to ask the right questions at the right time. To know
>>>>>>>>
>> what is
>>
>>>>>>>> good is not enough? There is a difference between waking up and
>>>>>>>>
>> getting
>>
>>>>>>>> up.
>>>>>>>> There must be specific decision for the right. To be sensitive and
>>>>>>>> aware is
>>>>>>>> good. To make proper decisions is better.' Paraphrase of Bryan
>>>>>>>> Crenshaw
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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