[Rhodes22-list] Bill Effros
Todd Tavares
sprocket80 at mail.com
Mon Sep 15 16:12:04 EDT 2008
Bill, Good to see you back on the list. Didn't you make us all a
promise? I am still waiting. LOL
http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2005-April/022296.html
Todd T
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Effros"
To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:05:34 -0400
Elle,
I was hoping Slim would weigh in on your situation. He has has to
deal
with similar problems.
I don't use chain except on rode purchased before I stopped using
chain.
You can't "set" chain. When it hits the bottom, it just lies there in
a
pool. It is exactly the same as dropping the chain into the R-22
anchor
locker. It forms a pyramid of chain with the unset anchor dangling
from
it on one side, or buried under it, and the rope rode dangling from
it
on the other.
I use floating anchor rode directly attached to the anchor. If you
drop
a penny overboard it's going to sink until it hits the bottom. If you
drop a 2 1/2 lb aluminum anchor overboard, it will also sink until it
hits the bottom.
If you tie a floating rope to that aluminum anchor, you will see no
rope
on the surface of the water until the anchor hits the bottom, and the
excess rope exceeds the straight line angle from where you are
deploying
the anchor. At that point you start pulling in excess rope off the
surface until the angle going into the water is roughly 45 degrees.
Then just hold onto the line as the wind or your motor drives your
boat,
and a good anchor will set itself properly. Cleat the line, and you
should not be able to move that anchor until you get almost directly
above it.
I always do this from the stern. I "fish" for the bottom, and "set"
the
anchor. Because there is only floating line between me and the anchor
I
can "feel" what is going on, and I can see from floating line on the
surface whether my anchor is truly "set" or if I am just "dragging"
it.
It's a lot like fishing.
Once set, I walk the line to the bow and cleat it to the bow cleat.
If leaves are truly a problem, and I don't know because I don't
experience that problem when I anchor, I would use a kellet to bring
the
sharp lightweight anchor all the way to the bottom on the all rope
rode. Then I would experiment with how far to withdraw the kellet in
order to set the tines of the anchor most reliably. Then I would
withdraw the kellet completely, and "feel" the set of the anchor in
the
way I normally do it. You don't have to "feel" the set many times
before you know exactly what it is supposed to feel like when it is
permanently set.
I've wasted a lot of time waiting to see if it would unset, and it
never
has.
I don't know of anyone who has tried the "floating the mushroom
anchor
into place" theory, but I think it would be fun to try. I know that
mushroom anchor won't move once properly set, and I also know how to
use
a Rhodes 22 to move the anchor if I need to do so.
Like me, I would guess your biggest problem in storm conditions is
other
boats, not your ability to keep your boat in a place where it can
easily
withstand the elements.
Bill Effros
elle wrote:
> HI, Bill, I was hoping that you would also weigh in on this
> matter...would you give me your recommendation? Again, the bottm
> is mud IF we can get through the leaves, and the cove is
> protected; storm surge is often a factor but @20' of chain &
> @200' of 5/16 rode hopefully is sufficient overkill...
>
> Opinion?
>
> Thanks, elle
>
> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our
sails.
>
> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
>
>
> --- On Mon, 9/15/08, Bill Effros wrote:
>
>
>> From: Bill Effros
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>> Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 11:47 AM
>> Peter,
>>
>> What difference do think the weight of a boat implies for
>> the size of the anchor?
>>
>> I would imagine windage is the factor.
>>
>> No matter what they weigh, all boats float.
>>
>> If weight were the factor, the size of a battleship anchor
>> in proportion to it's weight would be substantially less than the
>> size anchor most people carry on their Rhodes 22s.
>>
>> Someone recently told me that if you take away wind and
>> current, a 25 lb Fortress anchor will hold an aircraft carrier.
>>
>> I've never tried it, though.
>>
>> As I've often mentioned, a 2 1/2 lb Fortress Guardian
>> is my go-to anchor. I set it from the stern, and walk it
>> forward. Once properly set, it is extremely difficult to
>> dislodge until you get
>> almost directly above it. There is never enough windage on my boat
to
>> deform the anchor, part the line, challenge the shackle.
>>
>> My boat is moored on a 300 lb mushroom anchor as are
>> virtually all of the boats in the cove where I keep my boat.
(There are
>> hundreds.)
>>
>> The cove has been hit by strong winds from time to time,
>> but few move from their moorings. The biggest fear of damage is
from
>> other boats coming loose, and debris. The entire fleet swings on
>> individual anchors. Anchoring
>> bow and stern puts you broadside to the wind with enormous stress
on the
>> anchoring system if the wind is shifting. Mushroom anchors are
just
>> as strong in 360 degrees, and you expose your boat to the least
stress.
>>
>> If I had the problem of moving my boat under storm
>> conditions I would try to rig up an air bag on a mushroom anchor
so I could
>> tow it to the place I wanted to set my boat, release the air, and
sit on
>> the single mushroom.
>>
>> When your boat is floating freely and always facing the
>> wind there is no chafing problem to speak of, and while the wind
creates
>> uncomfortable creaking in all of the boats, the mechanical stress
on the
>> components seems negligible. I put a canvas chafe guard on my bow
>> line where it goes over the edge of the boat (no chock). I have
not had
>> to replace the chafe guard in 10 years of use. Most wind damage
>> around here is done to boats on shore. The wind topples one into
>> the next. I suspect my boat is far safer
>> in the water than it is on land.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter Thorn wrote:
>>
>>> elle,
>>>
>>> Broad Creek in New Bern, where Blackbeard is located,
>>>
>> is the best hurricane
>>
>>> hole for miles around. When a surge is expected and
>>>
>> boats must leave their
>>
>>> docks, everybody around there seems to head for Broad
>>>
>> Creek. It's about 15
>>
>>> feet of water, then 10' of mud/muck bottom river
>>>
>> bottom and then hard clay
>>
>>> underneath, according to borings made for the seawall
>>>
>> engineering design at
>>
>>> our club.
>>>
>>> If a storm passes close by, the wind direction can
>>>
>> shift greatly during the
>>
>>> storm. This adds a different challenge to anchoring.
>> Some anchors are very
>>
>>> good at setting, like Delta plow, others are very good
>>>
>> at holding in mud,
>>
>>> like the Fortress with the 45 degree fluke settings.
>> But, if broken loose
>>
>>> during a storm while the wind direction is changing, a
>>>
>> Fortress will more
>>
>>> easily drag and is more difficult to reset.
>>>
>>> Different people do different things. One popular
>>>
>> anchoring technique is
>>
>>> the Bahamian, using two anchors at 45-180 angles.
>> Other experienced storm
>>
>>> survivors here have used two anchors in series to cope
>>>
>> with our special
>>
>>> bottom conditions. Usually, coming from the direction
>>>
>> of the boat, the
>>
>>> first anchor is a Delta plow type with the usual nylon
>>>
>> rode and chain.
>>
>>> Then, they add about 30' of stainless cable and
>>>
>> attach a Fortress or
>>
>>> Danforth type. The idea is the Delta plow will
>>>
>> quickly reset if the
>>
>>> direction changes and slow down dragging long enough
>>>
>> for the Fortress to
>>
>>> also reset, dig in and hold on hard. A friend with a
>>>
>> Gulfstar 37 has used
>>
>>> this technique for ten years with great success in
>>>
>> Broad Creek. His boat is
>>
>>> heavy and I know he uses large sizes (not sure how
>>>
>> large), but I think the
>>
>>> same technique would work for a 3000# R22 with smaller
>>>
>> ground tackle.
>>> Fortunately for Raven, two days before Hannah arrived
>>>
>> I just hauled her
>>
>>> home. This is a wonderful advantage of a trailerable.
>>>
>> But it think it's
>>
>>> always a good idea to be prepared for whatever the
>>>
>> wind gods send us.
>>
>>> May all your storms go the other way,
>>>
>>> PT
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf
>>>
>> Of elle
>>
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 8:21 PM
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>
>>> Well; what a coincidence.....anchoring is on my mind.
>>>
>>> It seems that when Hanna was deciding where to rest
>>>
>> her head, we decided to
>>
>>> anchor the boats (mine & my neighbor's ) in
>>>
>> the creek...which is a
>>
>>> well-protected hurrricane hole.
>>>
>>> The favored anchoring scheme is two anchors each set
>>>
>> at about 45 deg off the
>>
>>> bow. I have the (way too light) Danforth-style which
>>>
>> comes with the boat &
>>
>>> another 21lb Danforth, 200' of rode & @
>>>
>> 8-10' of chain.
>>
>>> Problem 1....how to anchor from the bow as the furling
>>>
>> mechanism is in the
>>
>>> way if we go out straight from the bow cleat....or
>>>
>> have massive chafing if
>>
>>> we run the rode outside of the bow pulpit...boat will
>>>
>> then not be
>>
>>> head-to-wind.....
>>>
>>> Problem 2...this creek has a thick layer of
>>>
>> detritus..mainly
>>
>>> leaves...coating the bottom....the heavy Danforth
>>>
>> would not set w/all the
>>
>>> junk, so a new anchor is in my future.
>>>
>>> Anyone have any suggestions? I am looking at a Delta
>>>
>> as the CQR (my first
>>
>>> choice) is 'way too much $$$$$.
>>>
>>> We ended up securing one end of the boat to a forward
>>>
>> piling and the other
>>
>>> to a tree on shore.
>>>
>>>
>>> elle
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we
>>>
>> can adjust our sails.
>>
>>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic"
>>>
>> (Lady in Red)
>>
>>> --- On Sun, 9/14/08, Michael D. Weisner
>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Michael D. Weisner
>>>>
>>
>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>>
>>
>>
>>>> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 6:27 PM
>>>> Paul,
>>>>
>>>> We must have beaten this topic to death several
>>>>
>> times in
>>
>>>> the past. A quick check of the nabble archives under "anchor
>>>> locker" yielded:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
http://www.nabble.com/anchor-locker---dumb-questions-to18156518.html#a181565
>>
>>> 18
>>>
>>>
>>
http://www.nabble.com/Anchor-rode-spaghetti-to18071799.html#a18144554
>>
>>>>
>>
http://www.nabble.com/Anchor-rode-spaghetti-to18135271.html#a18135271
>>
>>>>
>> http://www.nabble.com/New-Guy-Bill-D.-tp7060395p7069009.html
>>
>>>>
>> http://www.nabble.com/Anchoring---Again-to5113633.html#a5113633
>>
>>>>
>> http://www.nabble.com/Go-To-Anchor-to2383036.html#a2383036
>>
>>>> You get the idea. Most of us seem to use a
>>>>
>> Rubbermaid
>>
>>>> basket in the laz or under a cockpit seat for the stern anchor,
>>>>
>> although I
>>
>>>> prefer a bag hung on the stern rail. I still use the forward
locker
>>>>
>> for my bow
>>
>>>> anchor rode storage. I cleat it to the central foredeck cleat
>>>>
>> and pass
>>
>>>> it through my bow chocks.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>> s/v Shanghaid'd Summer ('81)
>>>> Nissequogue River, NY
>>>>
>>>> From: "Paul Krawitz"
>>>> Sent:
>>>>
>> Sunday,
>>
>>>> September 14, 2008 5:53 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> How do you guys anchor?
>>>>>
>>>>> The forepeak (tiny bow storage area) is an
>>>> impractical way to store
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> rode and the opening is to small for my big
>>>>>
>> hands to
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> get in there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I've resorted to storing the rode below
>>>>>
>> the
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> cockpit benches, in a
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Rubbermaid container, and walking it forward
>>>>>
>> and
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> attaching it to the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Danforth anchor handing from the bow pulpit
>>>>>
>> when I
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> need to.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Where do you cleat it? The central bow cleat?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm hoping someone has a better
>>>>>
>> suggestion.
>>
>>>>> Paul K
>>>>> "Clarity"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
>>>>>
>> using the
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> mailing list go to
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
>>>>
>> the mailing
>>
>>>> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>>>
>> mailing list go to
>>
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus,
>>>
>> version of virus signature
>>
>>> database 3441 (20080915) __________
>>>
>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>
>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>>>
>> mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
>
__________________________________________________
To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
__________________________________________________
--
Be Yourself @ mail.com!
Choose From 200+ Email Addresses
Get a Free Account at www.mail.com
More information about the Rhodes22-list
mailing list