[Rhodes22-list] anchoring

Tue Sep 16 05:22:38 EDT 2008

Elle,

I use the 9 lb. Delta Plow with nylon rode and no chain and it always
holds.  Esp in weeds where the Danforth won't set.  Weeds are the Danforth's
weak suit and the Delta's strong suit.  The Danforths strong suit is mud
which is the Delta's weak suit.  I still have the Danforth hanging on the
bow with its 20 feet of chain and rode stowed in the forward tray, but I
never use it anymore.  The Delta is kept in the laz and the rode and
additional 5 lb. folding grapnell lunch hook are in a basket under the seat.

Slim

On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 5:47 PM, Luis Guzman <trpclman at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I have also been known to fall off a boat while holding a big anchor
>
> No, I was not trying to commit suicide.
>
> It has been the first and only time that I have fallen off a boat and I
> thought that it was pretty funny that I happened to be holding a big
> anchor. ROTFL src="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif"
> border=0>
>
> Luis
> S/V Miracle
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Luis Guzman <trpclman at yahoo.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 4:11:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>
> Mike,
>
> Unless there is not any wind or current at all (Then you don't need the
> anchor), you are going to be moving once you drop the anchor and you should
> account for that movement when you are planning where to anchor. That
> movement should be enough to set the anchor.
>
> Yes, I have also used the anchor when in trouble (mainly during engine
> failure), but in those cases I have no been moving fast.
>
> Luis
> S/V Miracle
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Michael D. Weisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 3:53:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>
> Luis,
>
> If you have no motion, the anchor will not "set."  Using reverse on the
> engine to stop is a normal operation but anchors must be functional in all
> circumstances, including those in which you have no engine capability and
> cannot rely on proper sail deployment.  When in trouble, one of the very
> first things that I do is to set an anchor, assuming that staying in one
> fixed place is preferable to moving.  This prevents further problems such
> as
> encountering other boats or rocks and usually gives me time to think of a
> plan.  This is precisely why anchors need to be easily accessible and
> simple
> to use.
>
> Mike
> s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
> Nissequogue River, NY
>
> From: "Luis Guzman" <trpclman at yahoo.com>Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008
> 2:46 PM
> I do not have the experience that everybody else has in this list, but here
> is what I think:
>
> The anchor should not be used to stop the boat's motion, but to keep it
> from
> moving. If you are sailing to your anchoring position, you should put her
> in
> irons before throwing the anchor overboard. If you are motoring, I would
> still point into the wind and put the motor in reverse to stop the forward
> motion.
>
> I think that both the size of the anchor and the anchor rode has to do with
> the size of the boat. The bigger the boat, the more surface area exposed to
> the wind and/or currents, so the more force is going to be exerted upon it.
> The bigger the anchor, the more holding power it has.
>
> Now, the difficult part is to have the appropriate anchor for the type of
> bottom where you are going to be anchoring.
>
> Luis
> S/V Miracle
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Michael D. Weisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 1:24:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>
> Bill,
>
> You bring up some interesting points:
>
> > No matter what they weigh, all boats float.
> Well, maybe not all, but then it wouldn't be a boat (anymore.) Just look at
> some of the heartbreaking photos from Houston.
>
> > If weight were the factor, the size of a battleship anchor
> > in proportion to it's weight would be substantially less
> > than the size anchor most people carry on their Rhodes 22s.
> Look at the inertia required to start or stop the motion of the boat.
> The weight (mass) must be a factor since anchors are used both to
> maintain position as well as arrest motion. If you want to stop a
> battleship, you had better use a strong anchor rode to take the force
> when the anchor sets.
>
> > Someone recently told me that if you take away wind and
> > current, a 25 lb Fortress anchor will hold an aircraft carrier.
> If you take away wind and current then why does one need an anchor,
> except when stopping motion in close quarters? One does not need
> to set the parking brake in a large truck if it was parked perfectly level.
>
> I, too, use a large mushroom anchor (250 lbs.) Remember, a mushroom
> requires time to "set" as it digs in to a sand or mud bottom and must be in
> the water a couple of weeks prior to using. When they are dropped, they dig
> in by swinging side to side as the buoy pulls with tide and current
> changes,
> finally digging in 3-4'.
>
> Mushrooms move in our mooring field during hurricanes usually as a result
> of
> tidal surge. My mushroom is secured with 30' of 1/2" chain to the floating
> buoy through a swivel in about 18' of water at high tide. Hurricane Bob
> (1991) was the last to move boats in my mooring field. While the storm was
> not particularly strong, the surge brought the boats to 15' above high tide
> and loosened many mushrooms enough for the boats to drag them. My rub rail
> still bears the scars of other boats that were caught by my R22 when my
> mushroom held.
>
> Mike
> s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
> Nissequogue River, NY
>
> From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008
> 11:47
> AM
> > Peter,
> >
> > What difference do think the weight of a boat implies for the size of
> > the anchor?
> >
> > I would imagine windage is the factor.
> >
> > No matter what they weigh, all boats float.
> >
> > If weight were the factor, the size of a battleship anchor in proportion
> > to it's weight would be substantially less than the size anchor most
> > people carry on their Rhodes 22s.
> >
> > Someone recently told me that if you take away wind and current, a 25 lb
> > Fortress anchor will hold an aircraft carrier.
> >
> > I've never tried it, though.
> >
> > As I've often mentioned, a 2 1/2 lb Fortress Guardian is my go-to
> > anchor. I set it from the stern, and walk it forward. Once properly
> > set, it is extremely difficult to dislodge until you get almost directly
> > above it. There is never enough windage on my boat to deform the
> > anchor, part the line, challenge the shackle.
> >
> > My boat is moored on a 300 lb mushroom anchor as are virtually all of
> > the boats in the cove where I keep my boat. (There are hundreds.)
> >
> > The cove has been hit by strong winds from time to time, but few move
> > from their moorings. The biggest fear of damage is from other boats
> > coming loose, and debris.
> >
> > The entire fleet swings on individual anchors. Anchoring bow and stern
> > puts you broadside to the wind with enormous stress on the anchoring
> > system if the wind is shifting. Mushroom anchors are just as strong in
> > 360 degrees, and you expose your boat to the least stress.
> >
> > If I had the problem of moving my boat under storm conditions I would
> > try to rig up an air bag on a mushroom anchor so I could tow it to the
> > place I wanted to set my boat, release the air, and sit on the single
> > mushroom.
> >
> > When your boat is floating freely and always facing the wind there is no
> > chafing problem to speak of, and while the wind creates uncomfortable
> > creaking in all of the boats, the mechanical stress on the components
> > seems negligible. I put a canvas chafe guard on my bow line where it
> > goes over the edge of the boat (no chock). I have not had to replace
> > the chafe guard in 10 years of use.
> >
> > Most wind damage around here is done to boats on shore. The wind
> > topples one into the next. I suspect my boat is far safer in the water
> > than it is on land.
> >
> > Bill Effros
> >
> >
> >
> > Peter Thorn wrote:
> >> elle,
> >>
> >> Broad Creek in New Bern, where Blackbeard is located, is the best
> >> hurricane
> >> hole for miles around. When a surge is expected and boats must leave
> >> their
> >> docks, everybody around there seems to head for Broad Creek. It's about
> >> 15
> >> feet of water, then 10' of mud/muck bottom river bottom and then hard
> >> clay
> >> underneath, according to borings made for the seawall engineering design
> >> at
> >> our club.
> >>
> >> If a storm passes close by, the wind direction can shift greatly during
> >> the
> >> storm. This adds a different challenge to anchoring. Some anchors are
> >> very
> >> good at setting, like Delta plow, others are very good at holding in
> mud,
> >> like the Fortress with the 45 degree fluke settings. But, if broken
> >> loose
> >> during a storm while the wind direction is changing, a Fortress will
> more
> >> easily drag and is more difficult to reset.
> >>
> >> Different people do different things. One popular anchoring technique is
> >> the Bahamian, using two anchors at 45-180 angles. Other experienced
> >> storm
> >> survivors here have used two anchors in series to cope with our special
> >> bottom conditions. Usually, coming from the direction of the boat, the
> >> first anchor is a Delta plow type with the usual nylon rode and chain.
> >> Then, they add about 30' of stainless cable and attach a Fortress or
> >> Danforth type. The idea is the Delta plow will quickly reset if the
> >> direction changes and slow down dragging long enough for the Fortress to
> >> also reset, dig in and hold on hard. A friend with a Gulfstar 37 has
> >> used
> >> this technique for ten years with great success in Broad Creek. His boat
> >> is
> >> heavy and I know he uses large sizes (not sure how large), but I think
> >> the
> >> same technique would work for a 3000# R22 with smaller ground tackle.
> >>
> >> Fortunately for Raven, two days before Hannah arrived I just hauled her
> >> home. This is a wonderful advantage of a trailerable. But it think it's
> >> always a good idea to be prepared for whatever the wind gods send us.
> >>
> >> May all your storms go the other way,
> >>
> >> PT
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of elle
> >> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 8:21 PM
> >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
> >>
> >> Well; what a coincidence.....anchoring is on my mind.
> >>
> >> It seems that when Hanna was deciding where to rest her head, we decided
> >> to
> >> anchor the boats (mine & my neighbor's ) in the creek...which is a
> >> well-protected hurrricane hole.
> >>
> >> The favored anchoring scheme is two anchors each set at about 45 deg off
> >> the
> >> bow. I have the (way too light) Danforth-style which comes with the boat
> >> &
> >> another 21lb Danforth, 200' of rode & @ 8-10' of chain.
> >>
> >> Problem 1....how to anchor from the bow as the furling mechanism is in
> >> the
> >> way if we go out straight from the bow cleat....or have massive chafing
> >> if
> >> we run the rode outside of the bow pulpit...boat will then not be
> >> head-to-wind.....
> >>
> >> Problem 2...this creek has a thick layer of detritus..mainly
> >> leaves...coating the bottom....the heavy Danforth would not set w/all
> the
> >> junk, so a new anchor is in my future.
> >>
> >> Anyone have any suggestions? I am looking at a Delta as the CQR (my
> first
> >> choice) is 'way too much $$$$$.
> >>
> >> We ended up securing one end of the boat to a forward piling and the
> >> other
> >> to a tree on shore.
> >>
> >>
> >> elle
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.
> >>
> >> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
> >>
> >>
> >> --- On Sun, 9/14/08, Michael D. Weisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: Michael D. Weisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
> >>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 6:27 PM
> >>> Paul,
> >>>
> >>> We must have beaten this topic to death several times in
> >>> the past. A quick
> >>> check of the nabble archives under "anchor
> >>> locker" yielded:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> http://www.nabble.com/anchor-locker---dumb-questions-to18156518.html#a181565
> >> 18
> >>
> >>> http://www.nabble.com/Anchor-rode-spaghetti-to18071799.html#a18144554
> >>>
> >>> http://www.nabble.com/Anchor-rode-spaghetti-to18135271.html#a18135271
> >>>
> >>> http://www.nabble.com/New-Guy-Bill-D.-tp7060395p7069009.html
> >>>
> >>> http://www.nabble.com/Anchoring---Again-to5113633.html#a5113633
> >>>
> >>> http://www.nabble.com/Go-To-Anchor-to2383036.html#a2383036
> >>>
> >>> You get the idea. Most of us seem to use a Rubbermaid
> >>> basket in the laz or
> >>> under a cockpit seat for the stern anchor, although I
> >>> prefer a bag hung on
> >>> the stern rail. I still use the forward locker for my bow
> >>> anchor rode
> >>> storage. I cleat it to the central foredeck cleat and pass
> >>> it through my
> >>> bow chocks.
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>> s/v Shanghaid'd Summer ('81)
> >>> Nissequogue River, NY
> >>>
> >>> From: "Paul Krawitz"
> >>> <krawitzmail-rhodes22 at yahoo.com>Sent: Sunday,
> >>> September
> >>> 14, 2008 5:53 PM
> >>>
> >>>> How do you guys anchor?
> >>>>
> >>>> The forepeak (tiny bow storage area) is an
> >>>>
> >>> impractical way to store
> >>>
> >>>> rode and the opening is to small for my big hands to
> >>>>
> >>> get in there.
> >>>
> >>>> I've resorted to storing the rode below the
> >>>>
> >>> cockpit benches, in a
> >>>
> >>>> Rubbermaid container, and walking it forward and
> >>>>
> >>> attaching it to the
> >>>
> >>>> Danforth anchor handing from the bow pulpit when I
> >>>>
> >>> need to.
> >>>
> >>>> Where do you cleat it? The central bow cleat?
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm hoping someone has a better suggestion.
> >>>>
> >>>> Paul K
> >>>> "Clarity"
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> >>>>
> >>> mailing list go to
> >>>
> >>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> __________________________________________________
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> >>> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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