[Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
Peter Thorn
pthorn at nc.rr.com
Tue Sep 16 16:19:51 EDT 2008
The GPS can be set to provide an exact scale drawing of your travels. This
shows your tacking angles, changes possible due to windshifts, etc.
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:48 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
Peter,
Please run this past me again. I'm not a sophisticated GPS user.
BE
Peter Thorn wrote:
> Bill,
>
> If you want to see your tacking angles, set the GPS to "bread crumbs" then
> look at your tracks. This is cold hard reality and the difference
between
> paying attention and goofing off can be stark. Compass isn't needed.
>
> PT
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:03 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
>
> Lee,
>
> It is important for the pointing discussion.
>
> Few compasses are ever checked. As soon as you check, you are stunned
> by the deviation.
>
> If you are trying to determine how high you can point, and your compass
> is off by 10 degrees in each direction (not uncommon) you really don't
> have the slightest idea how high you can point, or where the true wind
> is coming from.
>
> You spend a lot of time and effort adjusting sails before spending far
> less time adjusting your compass.
>
> Sailing at night or in fog it is very important to be able to trust your
> compass. Becoming disoriented is amazing if it has never happened to
> you. You start to insist that the compass is wrong. If you are not
> sure the compass is right, you can easily believe it is wrong.
>
> A power boater went to the hospital last weekend by grounding not 300
> yards from my boat. It was low tide. The rescue crew was able to walk
> to his boat from "land". He was using a GPS. 4 hours earlier he
> wouldn't have totaled his boat. He was going in the right direction,
> but he was a few degrees off course.
>
> Bill Effros
>
>
>
> KUHN, LELAND wrote:
>
>> Bill,
>>
>> "If, after taking a few different readings your compasses are wildly
>> off, report your results here, and we will go to Chapter 2."
>>
>> Just last week a guy at my marina with a big Morgan was complaining
>> about needing to get his compass recalibrated. I was shocked that
>> magnetic compasses could be significantly inaccurate. I was even more
>> shocked that the calibration was much more expensive than the cost of my
>> compass new, and I thought I had an expensive compass.
>>
>> I don't know if my compass is accurate. When it says 270 I feel like
>> I'm going west. If I were bluewatering it to Hawaii I'd probably want
>> to ensure I'd be heading in the right direction, but accuracy isn't too
>> important if you're just trying to maintain a straight tack to nowhere.
>>
>> Lee
>> 1986 Rhodes22 At Ease
>> Kent Island, MD
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bill Effros [mailto:bill at effros.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:42 AM
>> To: R22 List
>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
>>
>> Todd,
>>
>> Navigation is still one of my favorite topics.
>>
>> OK, let's start while most of us are still on the water.
>>
>> There is discussion today about pointing and 45 degrees and 110 degrees.
>>
>> These are compass directions.
>>
>> How are these numbers derived by the writers?
>>
>> (Serious question -- want answers.)
>>
>> Throw out your GPS. The GPS measures the direction the device has
>> traveled, not the direction the boat is pointing.
>>
>> How are the writers determining true wind direction?
>>
>> How many compasses do you have on board. (You must have at least 2.)
>>
>> Fluxgate compasses don't count -- they yield very precise wrong answers.
>>
>> Homework Assignment:
>>
>> Mount 2 magnetic compasses far enough away from large metal objects and
>> electronics so they can swing freely. (If one is hand bearing, that's
>> fine, as long as you can read it in 5 degree increments while the
>> compass is mounted in a stationary position.
>>
>> Point your boat so your main compass is at 0.
>>
>> Turn your other compass so it points to exactly 180.
>>
>> Now turn your boat so your main compass points to 90. Your other
>> compass should point to exactly 270. Does it?
>>
>> Whether it does, or not, note the readings on both compasses.
>>
>> If, after taking a few different readings your compasses are wildly off,
>> report your results here, and we will go to Chapter 2.
>>
>> If the readings remain almost 180 degrees in phase, no matter what
>> direction you point, make a chart showing all compass readings at 5
>> degree differences.
>>
>> True virgins can't be far behind.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>> PS -- If anyone gets serious about this, it's a great opportunity to set
>> and use multiple anchors. If you set 4 and move lines from cleat to
>> cleat, you can adjust the angle of your boat to the primary compass with
>> extreme precision, while learning a lot about the setting qualities of
>> anchors. It doesn't matter if an anchor fails to set properly -- you
>> are testing the compass, not the anchor.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Todd Tavares wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Bill, Good to see you back on the list. Didn't you make us all a
>>> promise? I am still waiting. LOL
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2005-April/022296.html
>>> Todd T
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bill Effros"
>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:05:34 -0400
>>>
>>>
>>> Elle,
>>>
>>> I was hoping Slim would weigh in on your situation. He has has to
>>> deal
>>> with similar problems.
>>>
>>> I don't use chain except on rode purchased before I stopped using
>>> chain.
>>>
>>> You can't "set" chain. When it hits the bottom, it just lies there
>>>
>>>
>> in
>>
>>
>>> a
>>> pool. It is exactly the same as dropping the chain into the R-22
>>> anchor
>>> locker. It forms a pyramid of chain with the unset anchor dangling
>>> from
>>> it on one side, or buried under it, and the rope rode dangling from
>>> it
>>> on the other.
>>>
>>> I use floating anchor rode directly attached to the anchor. If you
>>> drop
>>> a penny overboard it's going to sink until it hits the bottom. If
>>>
>>>
>> you
>>
>>
>>> drop a 2 1/2 lb aluminum anchor overboard, it will also sink until
>>>
>>>
>> it
>>
>>
>>> hits the bottom.
>>>
>>> If you tie a floating rope to that aluminum anchor, you will see no
>>> rope
>>> on the surface of the water until the anchor hits the bottom, and
>>>
>>>
>> the
>>
>>
>>> excess rope exceeds the straight line angle from where you are
>>> deploying
>>> the anchor. At that point you start pulling in excess rope off the
>>> surface until the angle going into the water is roughly 45 degrees.
>>> Then just hold onto the line as the wind or your motor drives your
>>> boat,
>>> and a good anchor will set itself properly. Cleat the line, and you
>>> should not be able to move that anchor until you get almost directly
>>> above it.
>>>
>>> I always do this from the stern. I "fish" for the bottom, and "set"
>>> the
>>> anchor. Because there is only floating line between me and the
>>>
>>>
>> anchor
>>
>>
>>> I
>>> can "feel" what is going on, and I can see from floating line on the
>>> surface whether my anchor is truly "set" or if I am just "dragging"
>>> it.
>>>
>>> It's a lot like fishing.
>>>
>>> Once set, I walk the line to the bow and cleat it to the bow cleat.
>>>
>>> If leaves are truly a problem, and I don't know because I don't
>>> experience that problem when I anchor, I would use a kellet to bring
>>> the
>>> sharp lightweight anchor all the way to the bottom on the all rope
>>> rode. Then I would experiment with how far to withdraw the kellet in
>>> order to set the tines of the anchor most reliably. Then I would
>>> withdraw the kellet completely, and "feel" the set of the anchor in
>>> the
>>> way I normally do it. You don't have to "feel" the set many times
>>> before you know exactly what it is supposed to feel like when it is
>>> permanently set.
>>>
>>> I've wasted a lot of time waiting to see if it would unset, and it
>>> never
>>> has.
>>>
>>> I don't know of anyone who has tried the "floating the mushroom
>>> anchor
>>> into place" theory, but I think it would be fun to try. I know that
>>> mushroom anchor won't move once properly set, and I also know how to
>>> use
>>> a Rhodes 22 to move the anchor if I need to do so.
>>>
>>> Like me, I would guess your biggest problem in storm conditions is
>>> other
>>> boats, not your ability to keep your boat in a place where it can
>>> easily
>>> withstand the elements.
>>>
>>> Bill Effros
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> elle wrote:
>>> > HI, Bill, I was hoping that you would also weigh in on this
>>> > matter...would you give me your recommendation? Again, the bottm
>>> > is mud IF we can get through the leaves, and the cove is
>>> > protected; storm surge is often a factor but @20' of chain &
>>> > @200' of 5/16 rode hopefully is sufficient overkill...
>>> >
>>> > Opinion?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks, elle
>>> >
>>> > We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our
>>> sails.
>>> >
>>> > 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --- On Mon, 9/15/08, Bill Effros wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> From: Bill Effros
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>> >> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>> >> Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 11:47 AM
>>> >> Peter,
>>> >>
>>> >> What difference do think the weight of a boat implies for
>>> >> the size of the anchor?
>>> >>
>>> >> I would imagine windage is the factor.
>>> >>
>>> >> No matter what they weigh, all boats float.
>>> >>
>>> >> If weight were the factor, the size of a battleship anchor
>>> >> in proportion to it's weight would be substantially less than the
>>> >> size anchor most people carry on their Rhodes 22s.
>>> >>
>>> >> Someone recently told me that if you take away wind and
>>> >> current, a 25 lb Fortress anchor will hold an aircraft carrier.
>>> >>
>>> >> I've never tried it, though.
>>> >>
>>> >> As I've often mentioned, a 2 1/2 lb Fortress Guardian
>>> >> is my go-to anchor. I set it from the stern, and walk it
>>> >> forward. Once properly set, it is extremely difficult to
>>> >> dislodge until you get
>>> >> almost directly above it. There is never enough windage on my
>>>
>>>
>> boat
>>
>>
>>> to
>>> >> deform the anchor, part the line, challenge the shackle.
>>> >>
>>> >> My boat is moored on a 300 lb mushroom anchor as are
>>> >> virtually all of the boats in the cove where I keep my boat.
>>> (There are
>>> >> hundreds.)
>>> >>
>>> >> The cove has been hit by strong winds from time to time,
>>> >> but few move from their moorings. The biggest fear of damage is
>>> from
>>> >> other boats coming loose, and debris. The entire fleet swings on
>>> >> individual anchors. Anchoring
>>> >> bow and stern puts you broadside to the wind with enormous stress
>>> on the
>>> >> anchoring system if the wind is shifting. Mushroom anchors are
>>> just
>>> >> as strong in 360 degrees, and you expose your boat to the least
>>> stress.
>>> >>
>>> >> If I had the problem of moving my boat under storm
>>> >> conditions I would try to rig up an air bag on a mushroom anchor
>>> so I could
>>> >> tow it to the place I wanted to set my boat, release the air, and
>>> sit on
>>> >> the single mushroom.
>>> >>
>>> >> When your boat is floating freely and always facing the
>>> >> wind there is no chafing problem to speak of, and while the wind
>>> creates
>>> >> uncomfortable creaking in all of the boats, the mechanical stress
>>> on the
>>> >> components seems negligible. I put a canvas chafe guard on my bow
>>> >> line where it goes over the edge of the boat (no chock). I have
>>> not had
>>> >> to replace the chafe guard in 10 years of use. Most wind damage
>>> >> around here is done to boats on shore. The wind topples one into
>>> >> the next. I suspect my boat is far safer
>>> >> in the water than it is on land.
>>> >>
>>> >> Bill Effros
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Peter Thorn wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> elle,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Broad Creek in New Bern, where Blackbeard is located,
>>> >>>
>>> >> is the best hurricane
>>> >>
>>> >>> hole for miles around. When a surge is expected and
>>> >>>
>>> >> boats must leave their
>>> >>
>>> >>> docks, everybody around there seems to head for Broad
>>> >>>
>>> >> Creek. It's about 15
>>> >>
>>> >>> feet of water, then 10' of mud/muck bottom river
>>> >>>
>>> >> bottom and then hard clay
>>> >>
>>> >>> underneath, according to borings made for the seawall
>>> >>>
>>> >> engineering design at
>>> >>
>>> >>> our club.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> If a storm passes close by, the wind direction can
>>> >>>
>>> >> shift greatly during the
>>> >>
>>> >>> storm. This adds a different challenge to anchoring.
>>> >> Some anchors are very
>>> >>
>>> >>> good at setting, like Delta plow, others are very good
>>> >>>
>>> >> at holding in mud,
>>> >>
>>> >>> like the Fortress with the 45 degree fluke settings.
>>> >> But, if broken loose
>>> >>
>>> >>> during a storm while the wind direction is changing, a
>>> >>>
>>> >> Fortress will more
>>> >>
>>> >>> easily drag and is more difficult to reset.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Different people do different things. One popular
>>> >>>
>>> >> anchoring technique is
>>> >>
>>> >>> the Bahamian, using two anchors at 45-180 angles.
>>> >> Other experienced storm
>>> >>
>>> >>> survivors here have used two anchors in series to cope
>>> >>>
>>> >> with our special
>>> >>
>>> >>> bottom conditions. Usually, coming from the direction
>>> >>>
>>> >> of the boat, the
>>> >>
>>> >>> first anchor is a Delta plow type with the usual nylon
>>> >>>
>>> >> rode and chain.
>>> >>
>>> >>> Then, they add about 30' of stainless cable and
>>> >>>
>>> >> attach a Fortress or
>>> >>
>>> >>> Danforth type. The idea is the Delta plow will
>>> >>>
>>> >> quickly reset if the
>>> >>
>>> >>> direction changes and slow down dragging long enough
>>> >>>
>>> >> for the Fortress to
>>> >>
>>> >>> also reset, dig in and hold on hard. A friend with a
>>> >>>
>>> >> Gulfstar 37 has used
>>> >>
>>> >>> this technique for ten years with great success in
>>> >>>
>>> >> Broad Creek. His boat is
>>> >>
>>> >>> heavy and I know he uses large sizes (not sure how
>>> >>>
>>> >> large), but I think the
>>> >>
>>> >>> same technique would work for a 3000# R22 with smaller
>>> >>>
>>> >> ground tackle.
>>> >>> Fortunately for Raven, two days before Hannah arrived
>>> >>>
>>> >> I just hauled her
>>> >>
>>> >>> home. This is a wonderful advantage of a trailerable.
>>> >>>
>>> >> But it think it's
>>> >>
>>> >>> always a good idea to be prepared for whatever the
>>> >>>
>>> >> wind gods send us.
>>> >>
>>> >>> May all your storms go the other way,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> PT
>>> >>>
>>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>>> >>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> >>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf
>>> >>>
>>> >> Of elle
>>> >>
>>> >>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 8:21 PM
>>> >>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>> >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Well; what a coincidence.....anchoring is on my mind.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> It seems that when Hanna was deciding where to rest
>>> >>>
>>> >> her head, we decided to
>>> >>
>>> >>> anchor the boats (mine & my neighbor's ) in
>>> >>>
>>> >> the creek...which is a
>>> >>
>>> >>> well-protected hurrricane hole.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The favored anchoring scheme is two anchors each set
>>> >>>
>>> >> at about 45 deg off the
>>> >>
>>> >>> bow. I have the (way too light) Danforth-style which
>>> >>>
>>> >> comes with the boat &
>>> >>
>>> >>> another 21lb Danforth, 200' of rode & @
>>> >>>
>>> >> 8-10' of chain.
>>> >>
>>> >>> Problem 1....how to anchor from the bow as the furling
>>> >>>
>>> >> mechanism is in the
>>> >>
>>> >>> way if we go out straight from the bow cleat....or
>>> >>>
>>> >> have massive chafing if
>>> >>
>>> >>> we run the rode outside of the bow pulpit...boat will
>>> >>>
>>> >> then not be
>>> >>
>>> >>> head-to-wind.....
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Problem 2...this creek has a thick layer of
>>> >>>
>>> >> detritus..mainly
>>> >>
>>> >>> leaves...coating the bottom....the heavy Danforth
>>> >>>
>>> >> would not set w/all the
>>> >>
>>> >>> junk, so a new anchor is in my future.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Anyone have any suggestions? I am looking at a Delta
>>> >>>
>>> >> as the CQR (my first
>>> >>
>>> >>> choice) is 'way too much $$$$$.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> We ended up securing one end of the boat to a forward
>>> >>>
>>> >> piling and the other
>>> >>
>>> >>> to a tree on shore.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> elle
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we
>>> >>>
>>> >> can adjust our sails.
>>> >>
>>> >>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic"
>>> >>>
>>> >> (Lady in Red)
>>> >>
>>> >>> --- On Sun, 9/14/08, Michael D. Weisner
>>> >>>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> From: Michael D. Weisner
>>> >>>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>> >>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>> >>>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 6:27 PM
>>> >>>> Paul,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> We must have beaten this topic to death several
>>> >>>>
>>> >> times in
>>> >>
>>> >>>> the past. A quick check of the nabble archives under "anchor
>>> >>>> locker" yielded:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nabble.com/anchor-locker---dumb-questions-to18156518.html#a18
>> 1565
>>
>>
>>> >>
>>> >>> 18
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nabble.com/Anchor-rode-spaghetti-to18071799.html#a18144554
>>
>>
>>> >>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nabble.com/Anchor-rode-spaghetti-to18135271.html#a18135271
>>
>>
>>> >>
>>> >>>>
>>> >> http://www.nabble.com/New-Guy-Bill-D.-tp7060395p7069009.html
>>> >>
>>> >>>>
>>> >> http://www.nabble.com/Anchoring---Again-to5113633.html#a5113633
>>> >>
>>> >>>>
>>> >> http://www.nabble.com/Go-To-Anchor-to2383036.html#a2383036
>>> >>
>>> >>>> You get the idea. Most of us seem to use a
>>> >>>>
>>> >> Rubbermaid
>>> >>
>>> >>>> basket in the laz or under a cockpit seat for the stern anchor,
>>> >>>>
>>> >> although I
>>> >>
>>> >>>> prefer a bag hung on the stern rail. I still use the forward
>>> locker
>>> >>>>
>>> >> for my bow
>>> >>
>>> >>>> anchor rode storage. I cleat it to the central foredeck cleat
>>> >>>>
>>> >> and pass
>>> >>
>>> >>>> it through my bow chocks.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Mike
>>> >>>> s/v Shanghaid'd Summer ('81)
>>> >>>> Nissequogue River, NY
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> From: "Paul Krawitz"
>>> >>>> Sent:
>>> >>>>
>>> >> Sunday,
>>> >>
>>> >>>> September 14, 2008 5:53 PM
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> How do you guys anchor?
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> The forepeak (tiny bow storage area) is an
>>> >>>> impractical way to store
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> rode and the opening is to small for my big
>>> >>>>>
>>> >> hands to
>>> >>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> get in there.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> I've resorted to storing the rode below
>>> >>>>>
>>> >> the
>>> >>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> cockpit benches, in a
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> Rubbermaid container, and walking it forward
>>> >>>>>
>>> >> and
>>> >>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> attaching it to the
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> Danforth anchor handing from the bow pulpit
>>> >>>>>
>>> >> when I
>>> >>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> need to.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> Where do you cleat it? The central bow cleat?
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> I'm hoping someone has a better
>>> >>>>>
>>> >> suggestion.
>>> >>
>>> >>>>> Paul K
>>> >>>>> "Clarity"
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >> __________________________________________________
>>> >>
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>>> >>>>>
>>> >> using the
>>> >>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> mailing list go to
>>> >>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >> __________________________________________________
>>> >>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
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>>> >>>>
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>>> >>
>>> >>>> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
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>>> >>
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