[Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
Bill Effros
bill at effros.com
Tue Sep 16 23:43:24 EDT 2008
Hank,
Try it with boat compasses on your boat. Report back. See what others
have to say.
We are not talking about variation here, which is constant in a given
area, although constantly changing and noted on charts.
We are talking about deviation, which is specific to each individual
compass, and can be 10 degrees off in one direction at one point of
sail, and 10 degrees off in another direction on another point of sail.
It's hard to believe until you see it, and the easiest way to see it is
using 2 compasses which will not stay synchronized as you swing your boat.
Try it on a boat with boat compasses.
BE
Hank wrote:
> Bill,
>
> Having been responsible for calibrating many aircraft compasses I have to
> disagree with you. If a compass is off by ten degrees, say it reads 260
> instead of 270, then it will be consistently off by the same margin around
> the card. In aircraft, for a simple mag compass, we don't actually
> calibrate it, we take it to the compass rose, start it up with all normal
> systems running and then move it around the circle. With this we create a
> deviation card where all the cardinal points are marked. I've never seen
> more than a 2 degree difference in error around the card.
>
> In this case, an inaccurate compass is fine for determining tacking points
> as it will be consistently off on either tack.
>
> Hank
>
> On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Lee,
>>
>> It is important for the pointing discussion.
>>
>> Few compasses are ever checked. As soon as you check, you are stunned
>> by the deviation.
>>
>> If you are trying to determine how high you can point, and your compass
>> is off by 10 degrees in each direction (not uncommon) you really don't
>> have the slightest idea how high you can point, or where the true wind
>> is coming from.
>>
>> You spend a lot of time and effort adjusting sails before spending far
>> less time adjusting your compass.
>>
>> Sailing at night or in fog it is very important to be able to trust your
>> compass. Becoming disoriented is amazing if it has never happened to
>> you. You start to insist that the compass is wrong. If you are not
>> sure the compass is right, you can easily believe it is wrong.
>>
>> A power boater went to the hospital last weekend by grounding not 300
>> yards from my boat. It was low tide. The rescue crew was able to walk
>> to his boat from "land". He was using a GPS. 4 hours earlier he
>> wouldn't have totaled his boat. He was going in the right direction,
>> but he was a few degrees off course.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>>
>>
>> KUHN, LELAND wrote:
>>
>>> Bill,
>>>
>>> "If, after taking a few different readings your compasses are wildly
>>> off, report your results here, and we will go to Chapter 2."
>>>
>>> Just last week a guy at my marina with a big Morgan was complaining
>>> about needing to get his compass recalibrated. I was shocked that
>>> magnetic compasses could be significantly inaccurate. I was even more
>>> shocked that the calibration was much more expensive than the cost of my
>>> compass new, and I thought I had an expensive compass.
>>>
>>> I don't know if my compass is accurate. When it says 270 I feel like
>>> I'm going west. If I were bluewatering it to Hawaii I'd probably want
>>> to ensure I'd be heading in the right direction, but accuracy isn't too
>>> important if you're just trying to maintain a straight tack to nowhere.
>>>
>>> Lee
>>> 1986 Rhodes22 At Ease
>>> Kent Island, MD
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Bill Effros [mailto:bill at effros.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:42 AM
>>> To: R22 List
>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
>>>
>>> Todd,
>>>
>>> Navigation is still one of my favorite topics.
>>>
>>> OK, let's start while most of us are still on the water.
>>>
>>> There is discussion today about pointing and 45 degrees and 110 degrees.
>>>
>>> These are compass directions.
>>>
>>> How are these numbers derived by the writers?
>>>
>>> (Serious question -- want answers.)
>>>
>>> Throw out your GPS. The GPS measures the direction the device has
>>> traveled, not the direction the boat is pointing.
>>>
>>> How are the writers determining true wind direction?
>>>
>>> How many compasses do you have on board. (You must have at least 2.)
>>>
>>> Fluxgate compasses don't count -- they yield very precise wrong answers.
>>>
>>> Homework Assignment:
>>>
>>> Mount 2 magnetic compasses far enough away from large metal objects and
>>> electronics so they can swing freely. (If one is hand bearing, that's
>>> fine, as long as you can read it in 5 degree increments while the
>>> compass is mounted in a stationary position.
>>>
>>> Point your boat so your main compass is at 0.
>>>
>>> Turn your other compass so it points to exactly 180.
>>>
>>> Now turn your boat so your main compass points to 90. Your other
>>> compass should point to exactly 270. Does it?
>>>
>>> Whether it does, or not, note the readings on both compasses.
>>>
>>> If, after taking a few different readings your compasses are wildly off,
>>> report your results here, and we will go to Chapter 2.
>>>
>>> If the readings remain almost 180 degrees in phase, no matter what
>>> direction you point, make a chart showing all compass readings at 5
>>> degree differences.
>>>
>>> True virgins can't be far behind.
>>>
>>> Bill Effros
>>>
>>> PS -- If anyone gets serious about this, it's a great opportunity to set
>>> and use multiple anchors. If you set 4 and move lines from cleat to
>>> cleat, you can adjust the angle of your boat to the primary compass with
>>> extreme precision, while learning a lot about the setting qualities of
>>> anchors. It doesn't matter if an anchor fails to set properly -- you
>>> are testing the compass, not the anchor.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Todd Tavares wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Bill, Good to see you back on the list. Didn't you make us all a
>>>> promise? I am still waiting. LOL
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2005-April/022296.html
>>>> Todd T
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Bill Effros"
>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:05:34 -0400
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Elle,
>>>>
>>>> I was hoping Slim would weigh in on your situation. He has has to
>>>> deal
>>>> with similar problems.
>>>>
>>>> I don't use chain except on rode purchased before I stopped using
>>>> chain.
>>>>
>>>> You can't "set" chain. When it hits the bottom, it just lies there
>>>>
>>>>
>>> in
>>>
>>>
>>>> a
>>>> pool. It is exactly the same as dropping the chain into the R-22
>>>> anchor
>>>> locker. It forms a pyramid of chain with the unset anchor dangling
>>>> from
>>>> it on one side, or buried under it, and the rope rode dangling from
>>>> it
>>>> on the other.
>>>>
>>>> I use floating anchor rode directly attached to the anchor. If you
>>>> drop
>>>> a penny overboard it's going to sink until it hits the bottom. If
>>>>
>>>>
>>> you
>>>
>>>
>>>> drop a 2 1/2 lb aluminum anchor overboard, it will also sink until
>>>>
>>>>
>>> it
>>>
>>>
>>>> hits the bottom.
>>>>
>>>> If you tie a floating rope to that aluminum anchor, you will see no
>>>> rope
>>>> on the surface of the water until the anchor hits the bottom, and
>>>>
>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>
>>>> excess rope exceeds the straight line angle from where you are
>>>> deploying
>>>> the anchor. At that point you start pulling in excess rope off the
>>>> surface until the angle going into the water is roughly 45 degrees.
>>>> Then just hold onto the line as the wind or your motor drives your
>>>> boat,
>>>> and a good anchor will set itself properly. Cleat the line, and you
>>>> should not be able to move that anchor until you get almost directly
>>>> above it.
>>>>
>>>> I always do this from the stern. I "fish" for the bottom, and "set"
>>>> the
>>>> anchor. Because there is only floating line between me and the
>>>>
>>>>
>>> anchor
>>>
>>>
>>>> I
>>>> can "feel" what is going on, and I can see from floating line on the
>>>> surface whether my anchor is truly "set" or if I am just "dragging"
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> It's a lot like fishing.
>>>>
>>>> Once set, I walk the line to the bow and cleat it to the bow cleat.
>>>>
>>>> If leaves are truly a problem, and I don't know because I don't
>>>> experience that problem when I anchor, I would use a kellet to bring
>>>> the
>>>> sharp lightweight anchor all the way to the bottom on the all rope
>>>> rode. Then I would experiment with how far to withdraw the kellet in
>>>> order to set the tines of the anchor most reliably. Then I would
>>>> withdraw the kellet completely, and "feel" the set of the anchor in
>>>> the
>>>> way I normally do it. You don't have to "feel" the set many times
>>>> before you know exactly what it is supposed to feel like when it is
>>>> permanently set.
>>>>
>>>> I've wasted a lot of time waiting to see if it would unset, and it
>>>> never
>>>> has.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know of anyone who has tried the "floating the mushroom
>>>> anchor
>>>> into place" theory, but I think it would be fun to try. I know that
>>>> mushroom anchor won't move once properly set, and I also know how to
>>>> use
>>>> a Rhodes 22 to move the anchor if I need to do so.
>>>>
>>>> Like me, I would guess your biggest problem in storm conditions is
>>>> other
>>>> boats, not your ability to keep your boat in a place where it can
>>>> easily
>>>> withstand the elements.
>>>>
>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> elle wrote:
>>>> > HI, Bill, I was hoping that you would also weigh in on this
>>>> > matter...would you give me your recommendation? Again, the bottm
>>>> > is mud IF we can get through the leaves, and the cove is
>>>> > protected; storm surge is often a factor but @20' of chain &
>>>> > @200' of 5/16 rode hopefully is sufficient overkill...
>>>> >
>>>> > Opinion?
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks, elle
>>>> >
>>>> > We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our
>>>> sails.
>>>> >
>>>> > 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --- On Mon, 9/15/08, Bill Effros wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> From: Bill Effros
>>>> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>> >> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>> >> Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 11:47 AM
>>>> >> Peter,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> What difference do think the weight of a boat implies for
>>>> >> the size of the anchor?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I would imagine windage is the factor.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> No matter what they weigh, all boats float.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> If weight were the factor, the size of a battleship anchor
>>>> >> in proportion to it's weight would be substantially less than the
>>>> >> size anchor most people carry on their Rhodes 22s.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Someone recently told me that if you take away wind and
>>>> >> current, a 25 lb Fortress anchor will hold an aircraft carrier.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I've never tried it, though.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> As I've often mentioned, a 2 1/2 lb Fortress Guardian
>>>> >> is my go-to anchor. I set it from the stern, and walk it
>>>> >> forward. Once properly set, it is extremely difficult to
>>>> >> dislodge until you get
>>>> >> almost directly above it. There is never enough windage on my
>>>>
>>>>
>>> boat
>>>
>>>
>>>> to
>>>> >> deform the anchor, part the line, challenge the shackle.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> My boat is moored on a 300 lb mushroom anchor as are
>>>> >> virtually all of the boats in the cove where I keep my boat.
>>>> (There are
>>>> >> hundreds.)
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The cove has been hit by strong winds from time to time,
>>>> >> but few move from their moorings. The biggest fear of damage is
>>>> from
>>>> >> other boats coming loose, and debris. The entire fleet swings on
>>>> >> individual anchors. Anchoring
>>>> >> bow and stern puts you broadside to the wind with enormous stress
>>>> on the
>>>> >> anchoring system if the wind is shifting. Mushroom anchors are
>>>> just
>>>> >> as strong in 360 degrees, and you expose your boat to the least
>>>> stress.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> If I had the problem of moving my boat under storm
>>>> >> conditions I would try to rig up an air bag on a mushroom anchor
>>>> so I could
>>>> >> tow it to the place I wanted to set my boat, release the air, and
>>>> sit on
>>>> >> the single mushroom.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> When your boat is floating freely and always facing the
>>>> >> wind there is no chafing problem to speak of, and while the wind
>>>> creates
>>>> >> uncomfortable creaking in all of the boats, the mechanical stress
>>>> on the
>>>> >> components seems negligible. I put a canvas chafe guard on my bow
>>>> >> line where it goes over the edge of the boat (no chock). I have
>>>> not had
>>>> >> to replace the chafe guard in 10 years of use. Most wind damage
>>>> >> around here is done to boats on shore. The wind topples one into
>>>> >> the next. I suspect my boat is far safer
>>>> >> in the water than it is on land.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Bill Effros
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Peter Thorn wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> elle,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Broad Creek in New Bern, where Blackbeard is located,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> is the best hurricane
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> hole for miles around. When a surge is expected and
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> boats must leave their
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> docks, everybody around there seems to head for Broad
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> Creek. It's about 15
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> feet of water, then 10' of mud/muck bottom river
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> bottom and then hard clay
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> underneath, according to borings made for the seawall
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> engineering design at
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> our club.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> If a storm passes close by, the wind direction can
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> shift greatly during the
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> storm. This adds a different challenge to anchoring.
>>>> >> Some anchors are very
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> good at setting, like Delta plow, others are very good
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> at holding in mud,
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> like the Fortress with the 45 degree fluke settings.
>>>> >> But, if broken loose
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> during a storm while the wind direction is changing, a
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> Fortress will more
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> easily drag and is more difficult to reset.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Different people do different things. One popular
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> anchoring technique is
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> the Bahamian, using two anchors at 45-180 angles.
>>>> >> Other experienced storm
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> survivors here have used two anchors in series to cope
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> with our special
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> bottom conditions. Usually, coming from the direction
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> of the boat, the
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> first anchor is a Delta plow type with the usual nylon
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> rode and chain.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Then, they add about 30' of stainless cable and
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> attach a Fortress or
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Danforth type. The idea is the Delta plow will
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> quickly reset if the
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> direction changes and slow down dragging long enough
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> for the Fortress to
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> also reset, dig in and hold on hard. A friend with a
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> Gulfstar 37 has used
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> this technique for ten years with great success in
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> Broad Creek. His boat is
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> heavy and I know he uses large sizes (not sure how
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> large), but I think the
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> same technique would work for a 3000# R22 with smaller
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> ground tackle.
>>>> >>> Fortunately for Raven, two days before Hannah arrived
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> I just hauled her
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> home. This is a wonderful advantage of a trailerable.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> But it think it's
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> always a good idea to be prepared for whatever the
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> wind gods send us.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> May all your storms go the other way,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> PT
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> >>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>> >>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> Of elle
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 8:21 PM
>>>> >>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Well; what a coincidence.....anchoring is on my mind.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> It seems that when Hanna was deciding where to rest
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> her head, we decided to
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> anchor the boats (mine & my neighbor's ) in
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> the creek...which is a
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> well-protected hurrricane hole.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> The favored anchoring scheme is two anchors each set
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> at about 45 deg off the
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> bow. I have the (way too light) Danforth-style which
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> comes with the boat &
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> another 21lb Danforth, 200' of rode & @
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> 8-10' of chain.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Problem 1....how to anchor from the bow as the furling
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> mechanism is in the
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> way if we go out straight from the bow cleat....or
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> have massive chafing if
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> we run the rode outside of the bow pulpit...boat will
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> then not be
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> head-to-wind.....
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Problem 2...this creek has a thick layer of
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> detritus..mainly
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> leaves...coating the bottom....the heavy Danforth
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> would not set w/all the
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> junk, so a new anchor is in my future.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Anyone have any suggestions? I am looking at a Delta
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> as the CQR (my first
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> choice) is 'way too much $$$$$.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> We ended up securing one end of the boat to a forward
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> piling and the other
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> to a tree on shore.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> elle
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> can adjust our sails.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic"
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> (Lady in Red)
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> --- On Sun, 9/14/08, Michael D. Weisner
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> From: Michael D. Weisner
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>> >>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 6:27 PM
>>>> >>>> Paul,
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> We must have beaten this topic to death several
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >> times in
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>> the past. A quick check of the nabble archives under "anchor
>>>> >>>> locker" yielded:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nabble.com/anchor-locker---dumb-questions-to18156518.html#a18
>>> 1565
>>>
>>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> 18
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nabble.com/Anchor-rode-spaghetti-to18071799.html#a18144554
>>>
>>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nabble.com/Anchor-rode-spaghetti-to18135271.html#a18135271
>>>
>>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >> http://www.nabble.com/New-Guy-Bill-D.-tp7060395p7069009.html
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >> http://www.nabble.com/Anchoring---Again-to5113633.html#a5113633
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >> http://www.nabble.com/Go-To-Anchor-to2383036.html#a2383036
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>> You get the idea. Most of us seem to use a
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >> Rubbermaid
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>> basket in the laz or under a cockpit seat for the stern anchor,
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >> although I
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>> prefer a bag hung on the stern rail. I still use the forward
>>>> locker
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >> for my bow
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>> anchor rode storage. I cleat it to the central foredeck cleat
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >> and pass
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>> it through my bow chocks.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Mike
>>>> >>>> s/v Shanghaid'd Summer ('81)
>>>> >>>> Nissequogue River, NY
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> From: "Paul Krawitz"
>>>> >>>> Sent:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >> Sunday,
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>> September 14, 2008 5:53 PM
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> How do you guys anchor?
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> The forepeak (tiny bow storage area) is an
>>>> >>>> impractical way to store
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> rode and the opening is to small for my big
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >> hands to
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>> get in there.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> I've resorted to storing the rode below
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >> the
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>> cockpit benches, in a
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> Rubbermaid container, and walking it forward
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >> and
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>> attaching it to the
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> Danforth anchor handing from the bow pulpit
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >> when I
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>> need to.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> Where do you cleat it? The central bow cleat?
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> I'm hoping someone has a better
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >> suggestion.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>> Paul K
>>>> >>>>> "Clarity"
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >> __________________________________________________
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >> using the
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>> mailing list go to
>>>> >>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >> __________________________________________________
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >> the mailing
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> >>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> __________________________________________________
>>>> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> mailing list go to
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> >>> __________________________________________________
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> version of virus signature
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> database 3441 (20080915) __________
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> http://www.eset.com
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> __________________________________________________
>>>> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> __________________________________________________
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> __________________________________________________
>>>> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>> >> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> >> __________________________________________________
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > __________________________________________________
>>>> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>> > go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> > __________________________________________________
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments,
>>>
>> is for the sole use of the intended
>>
>>> recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any
>>>
>> unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.
>>
>>> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply
>>>
>> e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
>
More information about the Rhodes22-list
mailing list