[Rhodes22-list] Bush Speech

Thu Sep 25 13:06:50 EDT 2008

Does anyone think there is a bit too much revisionism going on here?

IF the various administrative and legislative levers had been pulled
at the right time to ease back the amount of risk being underwritten
by Freddie and Fannie, taking some growth off the top of the economy
from say 2004 to 2006, would we be looking at this as a failed social
experiement or a smart economic expansion program?

Some of the smartest people on the planet couldn't decide when enough
was enough in terms of their risk portfolios (some banks made better
choices).  What chance in hell did a political process have of making
a better set of decisions?  I put little stock in regulation.  But, I
do expect the executive branch to make better decisions and they could
have been leaning harder on the banks with or without changing
legislative charters.

Of course this argument assumes that we are (or should have been)
better off with the program to help more people own homes to begin
with.  How many people on this list are better off now than they were
(pick a year) in terms of real estate holdings value?

Dave B

On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 9:02 AM, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh what the hell! I was walking out the door for something productive,
> now I'm watching the fax machine over a coast related brush fire.  May
> as well solve some world problems in the meantime. First, let's do a
> quick and dirty review of seventh grade civics class.  The President
> enforces the laws, the Congress makes the laws, and the Supreme Court
> interprets the laws.  Bush tried to get the Congress to take Fannie
> and Freddie on in 2002 (17 times total during his tenure).  They did
> nothing.  McCain and some others in the Senate tried to take on the
> problem in 2005.  They got nowhere.  Looking at which party is in the
> majority in Congress at any given point in time is only part of the
> issue.  Unless one party has a 2/3ds veto proof majority, legislation
> can be killed in committee before it ever gets voted on. There are
> demagogues on both sides of the isle that you can always count on to
> vote party line, like "The One". Then there are the Liebermans and
> McCains who you can't figure out what side they're rooting for on any
> given day (and you wonder why I don't trust McCain).  Both parties
> have feces all over their boots on this one.
>
> Please don't make me shout children!  The markets didn't fail, they
> are based on greed and self-interest and they performed EXACTLY as
> they are supposed to, "invisible hand" and all that crap.  What we
> have here is a failure to communicate!  Fannie and Freddie was born as
> a social experiment, grew in strength like a CAT 5 hurricane, and now
> shit is blown everywhere!
>
> Borrowing money is NOT a civil right.  Find where it is in the
> Constitution and get back to me.
>
> Brad
>
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>> Wait Rob (even though this is in the "recycle bin"),
>>
>> The Administration is squarely at fault because you THINK that Bush
>> would have refused to sign the laws (which were never presented to him)?
>>
>> Bush is responsible for what you think he would have done??
>>
>> Wow.
>>
>>
>> Lowe, Rob wrote:
>>> Hank,
>>> Oh, agreed, Bush is not solely responsible.  Congress is in this just as
>>> much.  But it was Bush giving the speech and asking the American people
>>> to bail out Wall Street.  And administration set the agenda.  Think if
>>> Congress had passed laws that would have restricted the abuses that led
>>> this to this mess that Bush would have signed them?  Think not, so in
>>> reality the administration is squarely at fault here.  If we are facing
>>> the dire consequences that the Federal Reserve and the Secretary of
>>> Commerce say we are, isn't it reasonable to ask for an explanation of
>>> what when wrong and why and what are you going to do so that it doesn't
>>> happen again?  But I don't believe that was covered.  Just we're in a
>>> heap of crap and we need you taxpayers to bail our ass out, even though
>>> you don't get anything out of the deal.  Yeah, I know, a functioning
>>> economy and all that.  But there is no guarantee or even a hint that
>>> this will save the economy.  Just keep us from sliding down hill even
>>> further. - rob
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Hank
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:28 AM
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Bush Speech
>>>
>>> Rob,
>>>
>>> What I fail to understand is why everyone wants to paint Bush as SOLELY
>>> responsible for everything that happens in this country.  Last time I
>>> checked we weren't living in a dictatorship.  Congress has to pass the
>>> laws
>>> before the President can sign them.  Congress shares just as much
>>> responsibility in this as Bush.  Let's give credit, and blame, where it
>>> is
>>> due and not just dump it on a convenient scapegoat.
>>>
>>> Hank
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/25/08, Lowe, Rob <rlowe at vt.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Brad,
>>>> That pretty much sums it up.  What he failed to say was that he was
>>>> apologizing for 7 years of failed policies that created this mess in
>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>> first place and that he was trying to save his legacy by having the
>>>> taxpayers bail his ass out of trouble.  Now if he had said that, I'd
>>>> probably consider going along with his plan.  But wait, $700B spread
>>>> among 300M citizens is only around $2300 a person, why not just ask
>>>> everyone to pony up their share?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Brad Haslett
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:46 PM
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Bush Speech
>>>>
>>>> I truly hope SOMETHING gets passed so the loan on the house I'm
>>>> selling closes on schedule next week (Tip O'neil said it best - all
>>>> politics is local).  Here's one summary of the Presidents speech.
>>>> Brad
>>>>
>>>> ---------------
>>>>
>>>> Bush: Congress Must Act to Save Stupid People
>>>>
>>>> Posted By Scott Ott On September 24, 2008 @ 10:41 am In Business, U.S.
>>>> News |
>>>>
>>>> (2008-09-24) - The foundation of the U.S. economy could crumble,
>>>> President George Bush said today, if Congress fails to approve a U.S.
>>>> Treasury plan to take over foundering financial firms, a proposal
>>>> which the president called "a much-needed 21st-century civil rights
>>>> act for stupid people."
>>>>
>>>> "To sustain this shining city on a hill," Mr. Bush said, "we need to
>>>> rescue the ignorant, irresponsible folks - from Wall Street to Capitol
>>>> Hill to Main Street - who got us to where we are today. We must
>>>> guarantee that no American suffers the soft bigotry of being forced to
>>>> live with the consequences of his bad decisions."
>>>>
>>>> The president, in remarks to the news media clearly aimed at reluctant
>>>> Republicans in Congress, said, "Our financial system rests on a
>>>> foundation of huge banks, brokerage houses and quasi-governmental
>>>> agencies that followed Washington's lead by gambling on long-shot,
>>>> poorly-collateralized investments. Now this glorious way of life is
>>>> threatened, and we must act to preserve it."
>>>>
>>>> "We need to guarantee that the structures, systems, people and
>>>> products that got us to this point won't be tossed on the ash heap of
>>>> history," said Mr. Bush. "If these giant companies fail, then America
>>>> will be left with nothing but thousands of small to mid-sized
>>>> financial firms that made prudent investment decisions during the past
>>>> 15 years."
>>>>
>>>> The president added that, "Americans value the liberty they have to
>>>> buy homes they can't afford, to invest in securities backed by nothing
>>>> but hope, and to draw six- and seven-figure salaries based on the
>>>> courage to risk taxpayer dollars on deals that even the dealmakers
>>>> don't understand."
>>>>
>>>> "It is a moral imperative that we guard the civil rights of these
>>>> idiots," he said. "If we fail, then we face the specter of free market
>>>> capitalism run amok, and millions of Americans will feel the painful
>>>> lash of personal responsibility across their backs."
>>>>
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-- 
David Bradley
+1.206.234.3977
dwbrad at gmail.com