[Rhodes22-list] Brad & Bell E, Political question

Sat Sep 27 15:21:56 EDT 2008

Brad, In my opinion the reason this deal isn't done is the Republucans are
not sure what to do. I can't say I blame them.. Who really knows how to fix
this?  If they sit on their hands and the left pass the bill ....welll when
it fails they can always point a finger. No matter what we do we are just
rolling dice. All concerned want to cover their asses. As usual leadership
is lacking. The first bailout proposal was nothing sort of outrageous. If we
do this there better be some freaking oversight.

Regarding stocks I am a far cry from a financial wizard and my meager
holdings are proof. I didn't pull all out.....the only stocks I have
left are in 401Ks or IRas. I did adjust these somewhat and one of my
accounts actually went up last quarter (only 2%). My best move was selling
GE last year. My FIL worked for GE Jet Division for 25 years after he
retired from the Airforce. We signed up to a family buy direct plan years
ago and road the Jack W wave. My FIL passed away years ago and we lost my
MIL last year. I felt alittle guilty but cleaned out my GE shortly
thereafter. GE was on a 6 year highI, sold for $42 and last I looked GE was
around $26. I took some grief for bailing on GE from some family memebers.
Truth be told I sold several stocks for a loss but I wanted out. I had 5
years left on the mortgage and went ahead and paid off my home.

I have a wad of cash and i am ready to buy......but i am patiend.

Wally

On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:

> Wally,
>
> No one wants to reward this.  The reason the "deal" isn't done yet is
> because the House Republicans are dragging their feet, partly for good
> reasons, but mostly for idealogical reasons. I don't like it but it
> isn't in the nation's best interest to drag the economy down to "prove
> a point" or "teach someone a lesson".  There were plenty of missed
> opportunities to make a correction in the last several years.
> Greenspan probably did keep his foot on the money supply throttle for
> too long (now would be a good time to re-read "Age of Turbulence") but
> the single biggest underlying weakness in the economy was government
> mandated bad debt.  There will be plenty of time to play "who shot
> John?" later.  If we're lucky, a deal will be in place before the
> markets open tomorrow.
>
> On a personal note, I didn't pull out of the market when you did and
> rode the wave both ways.  If the market continues South, you win the
> bragging rights.  If it doesn't, we'll be about even except you got to
> sleep better at night. BTW, our real estate in China is doing just
> fine, thanks for asking.
>
> Brad
>
> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 12:55 PM, TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Brad, I am quite calm.You spoke Bulllsit and I called bullshit.  Frankly
> so
> > many of your economic posts have proven wrong you may want to take a step
> > back and reconsider your viewpoints. Like you said most got this wrong
> even
> > Greenspan (big part of the problem in my view). Ask yourself why did they
> > get it wrong. Admittedly this is a difficult problem but it was caused by
> > greed not governement oversight. The citizens wanted to borrow as much as
> > they could, the Lender wanted to lend as much as the could, Security
> > Agencies wanted to Grade A as much as the could, and Wall Street wanted
> to
> > buy every bit of it. The bubble burst and pop goes the weasel. Now we
> want
> > to reward this?  I know it will be a bloody mess either way. Lets slow
> down
> > and think this through.
> >
> > Wally
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Wally,
> >>
> >> Settle down and take a deep breath, relax, breath slowly.
> >>
> >> What I said was that 2.5 years ago we agreed on the "real estate
> >> silliness", meaning, the real estate market was hyper-inflated and it
> >> wouldn't last.  True or not?
> >>
> >> I thought that segment of the total economy would self-correct.  What
> >> I didn't anticipate was that it would drag the rest of the economy
> >> down overnight.  Obviously, a lot of smart people with PhD's in
> >> economics didn't see it coming either so if that makes me "dumb as a
> >> box of rocks" I'm in good company.  I don't need to "grow a pair" to
> >> follow the herd. You need to take your "perfect" insight to Wall
> >> Street and I'll be happy to fly you around in your new Gulfstream 5.
> >>
> >> The immediate problem is the market for commercial paper.  You can
> >> gloat all you want about your prescience  of where the market was
> >> heading and who should be punished now.  I repeat, if confidence in
> >> the commercial paper market isn't restored soon, we can swap stories
> >> in the soup line together.
> >>
> >> You seem to be missing the bigger picture.  This is a problem caused
> >> by government mandated policies forced upon lenders.  If you don't get
> >> that, we're wasting our time here. This is not 1907 where JP Morgan
> >> can walk down the street, make a deposit, and solve the problem.
> >>
> >> Brad
> >>
> >> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 12:05 PM, TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Brad,  Sorry I call Bullshit.....Did you read my post????You and I did
> >> not
> >> > agree on this 2.5 years ago . You said this crisis was limited to
> >> sub-prime
> >> > and a minor problem. Do you remember telling all how rosy the economy
> >> was,
> >> > the cost of war was not a problem, and how little the sub-prime crisis
> >> would
> >> > hurt the economy? Just a speed bump compared to the S & L crisis. you
> >> > said...You provided  links that you claimed supported your views
> (often
> >> they
> >> > did not). You actually told me to go back to school and read some
> >> economic
> >> > books.You do remember all of your rosy claims and me suggesting you
> >> remove
> >> > your rose colored glasses? Come on I know you remember. ..... If you
> had
> >> a
> >> > pair you would admit you were a little off the mark if not flat out
> >> wrong.
> >> >
> >> >  I told you way back then that sub-prime was just the tip of the ice
> berg
> >> > and the crisis would hit Alt A, A paper, consumer credit and
> commercial..
> >> > You disagreed and painted a rosy picture. Now you tell me the problem
> is
> >> > commercial.......you are too much. This is what I TOLD you. Thanks for
> >> > playing. Selective memory is a great thing!  LOL
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > You say we need to bail these institutions out.  I thought we were
> better
> >> > off letting the private sector handle these problems? We can trust the
> >> > government to fix this problem but they can't handle health care???
> >> Honestly
> >> > if this wasn't so serious it would strike me as funny. This bail out
> may
> >> > very well be the right thing but we don't need to make a hasty knee
> jerk
> >> > decision. This is the same type of thought process that got us into
> Iraq.
> >> > There may be more than one way to skin this cat. We need to get it
> right.
> >> >
> >> > Comrades hang on to your wallets and tighten your belts!
> >> >
> >> > Fair Winds, Wally
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Wally,
> >> >>
> >> >> The immediate crisis is commercial paper.  If the market quits buying
> >> >> and selling commercial paper the wheels of the entire economy grind
> to
> >> >> a halt.  That IS bad.
> >> >>
> >> >> You and I agreed 2.5 years ago that the real estate market silliness
> >> >> wouldn't last forever and it didn't.  The financial institutions
> would
> >> >> have made a correction but for Fanny and Freddie continuing to serve
> >> >> "free" drinks until the patrons fell off their bar stools.
> >> >>
> >> >> As for safe, do business with a local bank.  I bank with the Memphis
> >> >> Area Teachers Credit Union and they hold their own loans.  There's
> >> >> nothing sexy about borrowing money at 4% and lending it at 7% but
> it's
> >> >> worked for years.  Every community has a small bank or S&L.
> >> >>
> >> >> Complaining about the equities market going South makes about as much
> >> >> sense as me whining about my airplane losing 30% of its value in the
> >> >> last year.  It is only a problem if I plan to sell (and I don't).
>  The
> >> >> stock market has outperformed every other investment in the long run.
> >> >> For most Americans, the long run means the day after tomorrow.
> >> >>
> >> >> Never forget what Thomas Malthus said about the long run.  In the
> long
> >> >> run, we'll all be dead!
> >> >>
> >> >> Brad
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 9:35 AM, TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >> > Did Brad really say this crisis is worse than people
> think...congrats
> >> it
> >> >> > looks like you finally got it! I told you this was going to be huge
> >> 2.5
> >> >> > years ago. But no no no....Brad you really had your blinders on but
> it
> >> >> > sounds like you may be catching up!......Thankfully I ignored the
> >> >> optimistic
> >> >> > opinions of Brad, Ed, Herb (maybe a few others).and made dramatic
> >> changes
> >> >> to
> >> >> > my meager portfolio over the last 2 years.  Now i am worried about
> my
> >> >> bank
> >> >> > closing.....there is only so much FDIC insurance to go around.
>  Bank
> >> runs
> >> >> > are making a comeback. What is safe?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I say no bail out! Let the chips fall..... It will be ugly but does
> >> >> anyone
> >> >> > really think the government can fix this? Plenty of blame to go
> around
> >> >> but
> >> >> > this is all about greed at every level.  I find no joy in seeing my
> >> fears
> >> >> > realized......hopefully not my WORSE fears.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Maybe we could fix this the "American" way.......we can get one of
> >> those
> >> >> > Credit Repair/Tax Settlement companies to renegotiate our debt with
> >> >> > China.....or can we just default on our debt and tell China tough
> >> shit?
> >> >> We
> >> >> > can put the White House on the national "Do Not Call" list and get
> a
> >> new
> >> >> > unlisted phone number for the White House.  The national FICO score
> >> will
> >> >> go
> >> >> > down the shitter but a good credit repair company could help us
> >> rebuild
> >> >> our
> >> >> > credit in a mere matter of a couple of years.  Problem solved. Just
> >> >> > kidding.....
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I just hope the new pres is up to the task.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Fair winds, Wally
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 6:23 PM, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Ed,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Haven't heard anything about it but then I've been out of pocket
> >> >> >> today. What I've been reading about the last hour is that the
> Dem's
> >> >> >> don't want their version to pass without the Republicans on board
> >> >> >> because then "they own it". Barney Frank tried to load it up with
> >> >> >> Christmas ornaments, ie, "funding housing for the poor", etc.  Hey
> >> >> >> Barney, DUMBASS, that's how we got to this point.  Anyway, he's
> >> >> >> already backed down from that.  The Republicans are getting Very
> >> Heavy
> >> >> >> anti-bailout messages from their constituents, and in the
> right-wing
> >> >> >> blogsphere where I spend a fair amount of time, it is not popular.
> >> >> >> That's an understatement. Bush wanted McCain to bring the
> Republicans
> >> >> >> on board and I'm not sure McCain was able to do that. Presidential
> >> >> >> election year or not, McCain is a RINO and he's not getting the
> party
> >> >> >> to fall in line  behind him in lockstep. My hope is that a bill
> gets
> >> >> >> passed over the weekend, as clean a bill as we can possibly get.
>  The
> >> >> >> Dems have the votes to do it on their own and IMHO are on the
> right
> >> >> >> side of the issue.  The Republican concerns are valid but it's too
> >> >> >> late to implement them.  The crisis is worse than most people
> think.
> >> I
> >> >> >> can only watch TV news coverage until Harry Reid shows his face
> and
> >> >> >> then I start looking for things to throw at the TV, so now I just
> >> >> >> leave the room. Reid is a worthless asswipe that tries to
> politicize
> >> >> >> everything. Obama has an opportunity to come out of this looking
> like
> >> >> >> a hero even though his fingerprints are all over the cause of the
> >> >> >> mess.  Such is politics.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You can't say this year has been boring.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Brad
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 2:52 PM, Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > You two guys have access to the latest information, what is
> behind
> >> >> rumor
> >> >> >> that
> >> >> >> > Paulson is feeding Obama information thru his old friends at
> >> Goldman,
> >> >> >> Sacks?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Next rumor:  Is Paulson trying to bail out Goldman, Sacks so
> that
> >> he
> >> >> >> > personnally is not brought into lawsuits to recover losses?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Ed K
> >> >> >> > Greenville, SC, USA
> >> >> >> > --
> >> >> >> > View this message in context:
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> http://www.nabble.com/Brad---Bell-E%2C-Political-question-tp19695267p19695267.html
> >> >> >> > Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> >> >> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> go
> >> to
> >> >> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> __________________________________________________
> >> >> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> go
> >> to
> >> >> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >> >> __________________________________________________
> >> >> >>
> >> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> >> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> to
> >> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> >> >
> >> >> __________________________________________________
> >> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> to
> >> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >> __________________________________________________
> >> >>
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> >
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> > __________________________________________________
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > __________________________________________________
> >
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>