[Rhodes22-list] Rhodes Crew Gear
BenCittadino
bencittadino at gmail.com
Sat Aug 1 11:05:56 EDT 2009
Michael;
Thanks for the prompt response. Between your info and Rummy's I should be
able to accomplish my mission. My crew thanks you.
Fair Winds,
BenCittadino
MichaelMeltzer wrote:
>
> Yes, we you to have the sample picture, have to dig it up. It go back a
> while, the quick answer is Rummy(with a big thank you) paid a fee to have
> land end "enter it into their system", once it in their system any one
> can
> order it up by using the logo number. The deal is you order from the logo
> catalog(small one that company use) and lands end would add small
> embroider
> fee to put the logo on, hats/shirts/tots, you name it, also they had a low
> minimum order size that was only like 5-10 pieces so it was simple to put
> it
> together(1-3 people ordering was enough), pretty sure you can add more
> "text" like boat name etc....(they will charge I think :-) also they good
> stuff and they took care of the hassle of fulfillment(as in no one trying
> to
> chase down list members for their check/size returns/etc...)
>
> -mjm
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of BenCittadino
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:42 PM
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes Crew Gear
>
>
> Michael M and/or Rummy and/or Whomever (Whoever?...whatever):
>
> Your reference to a Rhodes logo comes at an interesting time for me. I was
> thinking about ordering up some gift "crew member" polo shirts for my kids
> and grandkids using a generic sailboat logo of some kind embroidered on
> them
> along with the name of my boat. I have now noticed the "snazzy" Rhodes
> Logo
> on the Rhodes' Owners web page. Is that the logo you are talking about?
> Who
> does that logo belong to? Whose permission do I need to use it on my
> shirts?
> If it is already on shirts sold by Lands End can they produce custom
> shirts
> with my boat name? Your feedback would be appreciated.
>
> BenCittadino
> SV Susan Kay ('93 recycled '08)
> Highlands, NJ
>
>
>
>
>
> R22RumRunner wrote:
>>
>> Michael,
>>
>>
>> Yes, they still have the logo. I have the information on a different
>> computer. I will send it to you later.
>>
>> Rummy
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 7/30/2009 9:22:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> mjm at michaelmeltzer.com writes:
>>
>> Is the rhodes22 logo still on file with lands end? Rummy you remember or
>> one else?
>>
>> -mjm
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Arthur H.
>> Czerwonky
>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:23 PM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes Promotions
>>
>> Deena,
>>
>> Do you think an inscribed ball point, one worth keeping and using, would
>> make sense? We just need to 'blue sky' this show...
>>
>> I stitched a miniature sail bag once, it was made of actual sailcloth
>> and
>
>> was embroidered. Really quality you wouldn't pitch in file 13. Maybe
>> an
>
>> embossed key chain with a small fiberglass piece (of hull) as a hanger.
>> There must be soms scrap around the GB facility. " You have a small
>> part
>> of
>> the boat, we can deliver the rest in a few months." Let's stretch our
>> imagination over Stan (SOS)!
>>
>> Art
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: captainpy at comcast.net
>>>Sent: Jul 29, 2009 4:56 PM
>>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes Promotions
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Stan!!!!!!!!
>>>
>>>How about a Rhodes 22 T-shirt That says "Ask me about my Rhodes" )On
one
>
>> side a picture and on the other GB's web address?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Deena AKA Captain Py
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
>>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:00:39 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
>>>Subject: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 1931, Issue 1
>>>
>>>Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to
>>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>
>>>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
>>>
>>>You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> rhodes22-list-owner at rhodes22.org
>>>
>>>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>than "Re: Contents of Rhodes22-list digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>>Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. Re: Stuff that works - pest control solutions (Jim Connolly)
>>> 2. Re: Fw: general boat's dilema (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
>>> 3. Re: general boat's complaint (continued) (stan)
>>> 4. Re: general boat's complaint (continued) (stan)
>>> 5. Re: general boat's complaint /in all fairness (Lou Rosenberg)
>>> 6. Re: general boat's complaint /in all fairness
>>> (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
>>> 7. Re: general boat's complaint /in all fairness (Lowe, Rob)
>>> 8. Yellowstone Lake, Jackson Lake Sailing (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
>>>
>>>
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>Message: 1
>>>Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:01:17 -0400
>>>From: "Jim Connolly" <jbconnolly at comcast.net>
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Stuff that works - pest control solutions
>>>To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Message-ID: <200907290201.n6T21ZTY022293 at raeid23.raenet.com>
>>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>>I had hornets and wasps in the coaming right before launch, so I needed
a
>
>>>fast solution.
>>>
>>>I found a non-toxic wasp killer spray that is based on mint oil ("poison
>>>free" from Victor Pest Control). It took a whole can, but seemed to
>> work.
>>>The smell repelled or confused returning wasps, and those that were home
>>>when I sprayed (at least some of them) died.
>>>
>>>Jim Connolly
>>>s/v Inisheer
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of John Lock
>>>Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 2:29 PM
>>>To: Rhodes 22
>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Stuff that works - pest control solutions
>>>
>>>Last year I had a couple of pest problems that many people responded too
>>>with helpful suggestions. Here's what my results were -
>>>
>>>1) Problem - spider webs in the rigging (especially masthead fly)
>> Solution -
>>>WD40. I had the mast down early this spring to fix several things.
>> Before
>>>raising again, I sprayed WD40 liberally on the masthead, Windex, VHF
>>>antenna, and diamond stays. So far (5 months
>>>later) not a single web! Still get them down lower where I didn't
spray,
>
>> so
>>>we know the spiders are still there. But they don't want to (or can't)
>>>start webs on the WD40 treated portion.
>>>
>>>2) Problem - paper wasps building nests under the cockpit coaming
>> Solution -
>>>clothes drier sheets. Middle of last summer I stapled a bunch of drier
>>>sheets into the wood backing up under the coaming on both sides. No
wasp
>
>>>nests have appeared in almost a year now. I see some more wasp activity
>>>now, so I suspect it's time to renew the sheets. But that's a cheap and
>
>>>effective control.
>>>
>>>Now if only I could figure out what to do about the ants coming aboard
>> from
>>>shore....
>>>
>>>Cheers!
>>>John Lock
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
>>>Lake Sinclair, GA
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------
>>>
>>>Message: 2
>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:31:43 -0400 (EDT)
>>>From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Fw: general boat's dilema
>>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Message-ID:
>>>
>> <16092871.1248874303875.JavaMail.root at elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>
>>>
>>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>>John,
>>>
>>>Welcome aboard the list and your involvement. This fleet is strong for
>> the mix of its skippers as well an exceptional boat. If you can come to
>> the
>> show you'll have a rather rare opportunity to meet many of them as we
>> have
>> a get-together in a nearby restaurant, I can't remember what day that
>> will
>> be this year - maybe we should take a poll. C'mon down and enjoy! You
>> will also see one of the most exceptional sailboat displays in the
>> country.
>> Lee may have a handle on what is cooking locally, or Mary Lou and Fred
>> may
>> know. We have alot of skippers in the North Chesapeake environs, let's
>> show the flag. BTW, is there an R22 burgee?
>>>
>>>Another option we could use in helping GB is to followup on inquiries on
>> the Rhodes from shows, calls, or curious prospects we may meet as our
>> marinas. If local owners are informed about such prospects from Stan or
>> other
>> owners, they could be invited out on a sail or into a conversation about
>> our
>> boat, maybe about their boat and/or sailing interests. We get random
>> requests from wannabes, maybe a more proactive initiative on our part,
>> done
>> tastefully, would develop into prospects for Stan. He can suggest
>> names,
>
>> approach, interests selectively to get the ball/tide rolling. A passive
>> approach will not enhance sales prospects for GB.
>>>
>>>I share your past interest in the Mariner (#1607) and the O'Day boats
>> (222). I haven't seen much racing interest in our skippers, but welcome
>> correction if it is due. Involvement in the racing is alot of fun.
>> Stan
>
>> suggested a strictly racing R22 a few years ago, maybe to be revived.
>> Are you
>> IMF (probably) or Conventional? What size Genny? Have you raced out of
>> Brant Beach, or is it mostly a cruising venue? Which motor have you
>> preferred?
>>
>>>
>>>We welcome your involvement, John, and look forward to your reply.
>>>
>>>Art
>>>s/v Mary Jane
>>>Hartwell and St Pete
>>>
>>>
>>>--Original Message-----
>>>>From: John <johnrowland at optonline.net>
>>>>Sent: Jul 28, 2009 9:50 PM
>>>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Fw: general boat's dilema
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "John" <johnrowland at optonline.net>
>>>>To: <rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org>
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:01 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's dilema
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I have submitted one or two messages to the list, but would like to
get
>
>>>>>more involved. I purchased a 1989 Rhodes22 about 1 year ago. I have
>> raced
>>>>>Mariners years ago, owned a few O'Days, and never found a boat that I
>> enjoy
>>>>>more than this one. Heaven forbid General Boats has problems. There
>> is no
>>>>>owner loyalty, or construction quality (or--even more
>> important--customer
>>>>>service) that compares with this company. While I probably cannot
>> attend
>>>>>the Annapolis Show, I need to know what I (and other loyal owners) can
>> do
>>>>>to keep this company strong.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been amazed at the discussions on this list (with the
>>>>> exception
>
>> of
>>>>> the political issues regarding the last election). My goodness,
>>>>> where
>
>>>>> else can I learn about how to sail more effectively and fix whatever
>>>>> problems I have on the boat. I do not call a customer service number
>> that
>>>>> keeps me on hold for hours--I talk to the owner of the company!!
>>>>>
>>>>> I will not get involved in discussions regarding royalties, but do
>> think
>>>>> that each of us owes Stan some support in keeping this boat alive.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am actually in a slip next to a Hunter 40, and I am happier with
>> this
>>>>> boat.
>>>>>
>>>>> I read a lot of e-mails from individuals who offer suggestions about
>> other
>>>>> members issues and questions. What better support canone get than
>> this?
>>>>>
>>>>> I keep the boat at a slip at the Brant Beach Yacht Club in Brant
>> Beach,
>>>>> New Jersey and look forward to meeting other owners in the area.
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Rick" <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:24 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's dilema
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> $1.97
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Arthur H. Czerwonky <
>>>>>> czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rick,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good idea, buddy! Somehow to add a unique personal touch. I would
>> add,
>>>>>>> however, that Mary Lou really does not need to dance on table tops
>> at
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Annapolis show. Fred, Pleassse!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with the blazers, but, as we are in shoestring mode, what
>> about
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> Hanes T-shirt, and of course, hospitality hot dogs with lots of
>> mustard
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> relish. Seriously, I embroidered some nice looking T-shirts for
>>>>>>> the
>
>> '07
>>>>>>> show, different color each day, some were 'Name, and rhodes22.com',
>> and
>>>>>>> some were 'name, boomroom, rhodes22.com', each comma'd section
>>>>>>> above
>
>> the
>>>>>>> other. They were noticed by our visitors, never a comment or
>> compliment
>>>>>>> otherwise. You might have to get used to it... rhoadies are tough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let's gel some more ideas for Stan to use. At least it engages the
>>>>>>> imagination of the smart cookies in our magnificent Rhodes fleet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No commissions or royalty this time either, guys. What do you
>> charge,
>>>>>>> Rick?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Art
>>>>>>> s/v Mary Jane
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> >From: Rick <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> >Sent: Jul 28, 2009 2:00 PM
>>>>>>> >To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's dilema
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >Art,
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >Using owners at shows sounds like a good idea. Carver has success
>> with
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> >at the Cleveland show, dressing everyone up the same way in blue
>>>>>>> >blazers.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >I doubt any mass media advertising would have payback. Since all
>> the
>>>>>>> major
>>>>>>> >sailing magazines have been pushing for so long the Catalina wave
>> that
>>>>>>> >you
>>>>>>> >start at 22 feet and buy up from there, a GBI ad would be swamped.
>>>>>>> >Maybe
>>>>>>> >direct mail to long-time owners on state and Coast Guard sailboat
>>>>>>> >registration lists, pushing the R22 as a quality downsize option?
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >Rick
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Arthur H. Czerwonky <
>>>>>>> >czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >> John, Rob,
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> You may recall that Stan proposed a stripped down version, call
>> it a
>>>>>>> racing
>>>>>>> >> model, on the list a few years ago, and although I expressed
>> interest
>>>>>>> >> in
>>>>>>> >> this new boat option to him, maybe others too, no further
>> information
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> >> provided to my knowledge. Back at that time Stan expressed his
>>>>>>> >> ability
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> >> produce, and now maybe he will further reconsider and tell us
>> more
>>>>>>> >> about
>>>>>>> >> what he had in mind. I still am interested, speaking for myself
>> as a
>>>>>>> >> potential buyer. I will watch for any response. Did anyone get
>>>>>>> detailed
>>>>>>> >> information on this boat?
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> I have suggested the value of baseline ad exposure. If nothing
>> else,
>>>>>>> >> targeted reinforcement to the boat show displays that are so
>>>>>>> >> important.
>>>>>>> >> Maybe followup visits by experienced skippers. I have been
>>>>>>> told
>
>> by
>>>>>>> >> one
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> >> our newer skippers that my 'hot dog hospitality' aboard Mary
>>>>>>> Jane
>
>> at
>>>>>>> >> the
>>>>>>> '07
>>>>>>> >> show tipped the sale toward his boat purchase with him and his
>> wife.
>>>>>>> BTW,
>>>>>>> >> no commission provided or requested. The presence of skippers
>>>>>>> at
>
>> the
>>>>>>> show
>>>>>>> >> is valuable - a third party evaluation of their own boat, and
>> with
>>>>>>> >> 'no
>>>>>>> axe
>>>>>>> >> to grind'. Consider it for yourself in support of Stan, as I
>>>>>>> did
>
>>
>>>>>>> >> twice.
>>>>>>> >> You would have one very positive impression of how GB and a
>> huge
>>>>>>> >> number
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> >> other boat makers reach their customers. Our skippers who are
>>>>>>> so
>
>>>>>>> willing to
>>>>>>> >> give demos, whether at shows or not, are such valuable
>> ambassadors
>>>>>>> >> for
>>>>>>> GB.
>>>>>>> >> Having done it a number of times, it is really fun as well as
>> being
>>>>>>> >> productive. Try it, you'll like it! Let's be specific - Can
>> some of
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> >> skipper demos at Annapoli!
>>>>>>> >> s or St Pete or elsewhere?
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Cutting to the chase, who has some real connections to options
>> and
>>>>>>> selling
>>>>>>> >> /advertising connections that could help get Stan and GB out of
>> this
>>>>>>> 'black
>>>>>>> >> hole' that the company appears to be in? It could be just a few
>
>>>>>>> positive
>>>>>>> >> levers to pull that would enable better results, even in our
>> current
>>>>>>> puuuny
>>>>>>> >> economy. Who is willing to pen letters of endorsement to
>>>>>>> prospects/suspects
>>>>>>> >> that could tip the scales, one by one. Time to get the horses
>> out
>>>>>>> >> of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >> barn, guys.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Like Mark Twain or someone else once said, let's get the P in
>>>>>>> our
>
>>>>>>> >> Pot!
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Respectfully,
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Art
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> >> >From: John Shulick <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>>>>> >> >Sent: Jul 28, 2009 11:02 AM
>>>>>>> >> >To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>> >> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint
>> (continued)
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >Rob,
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >Yep that pretty much covers it. Now what would the price point
>> be
>>>>>>> >> >for
>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>> >> a
>>>>>>> >> >boat? I have the origional literature that came with my 71 and
>> you
>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>> >> >see that show package special price!!!
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >John S.
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >Rob Lowe wrote:
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> Drop the IMF, ditch the head, the water tank, the fancy motor
>
>>>>>>> >> >> lift,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> >> >> re-model the interior? Now you have my 1976 boat! I do have
>>>>>>> >> >> battery
>>>>>>> >> >> though. - rob
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> >> >> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>> >> >> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of John
>
>>>>>>> Shulick
>>>>>>> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:52 AM
>>>>>>> >> >> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>> >> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint
>> (continued)
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> Rick,
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> I see your point clearly on the subject but I also see Davids
>> idea
>>>>>>> >> >> of
>>>>>>> >> >> options to increase sales. How about dropping the IMF, ditch
>> the
>>>>>>> head,
>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>> >> >> on board water tank, the batteries, the fancy motor lift,
>> re-model
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >> >> interior and selling it as a "sport model" My wife and I live
>> on
>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>> >> >> boat
>>>>>>> >> >> almost every weekend and find a porta potty and crank lights
>>>>>>> sufficient.
>>>>>>> >> >> Being a camper before a sailor I have found the R22 to be a
>> first
>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>> >> >> floating campground without the pain of hiking in. I also
>>>>>>> have
>
>> had
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >> >> perverse pleasure one weekend of sailing rings around a
>> macgregor
>>>>>>> >> >> 26
>>>>>>> >> >> using
>>>>>>> >> >> it like a no wake buoy as the kids pleaded at their father to
>> make
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >> >> mac
>>>>>>> >> >> go faster. Racer/Cruiser is more fun than Cruiser/Racer. Even
>> if
>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>> >> >> not
>>>>>>> >> >> racing its fun to be faster.
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> Respectfully submitted,
>>>>>>> >> >> John Shulick
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> Rick-139 wrote:
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>> David,
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>> I hate to be the wet blanket again. But racing sailboats is
>> a
>>>>>>> >> >>> whole
>>>>>>> >> >>> 'nother
>>>>>>> >> >>> market. The key to convincing a customer to buy a sailboat
>> for
>>>>>>> racing
>>>>>>> >> >> is
>>>>>>> >> >>> to
>>>>>>> >> >>> convince him or her that they will have lots of other
>> sailboats
>>>>>>> >> >>> to
>>>>>>> >> >> race
>>>>>>> >> >>> against.
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>> In the one design game, it involves high volume production
>> and a
>>>>>>> >> >>> distribution system that can execute geographically
>> concentrated
>>>>>>> sales
>>>>>>> >> >> and
>>>>>>> >> >>> support. J Boats has been successful doing that in the
>>>>>>> Great
>
>>>>>>> >> >>> Lakes
>>>>>>> >> >> with
>>>>>>> >> >>> the
>>>>>>> >> >>> J 22 and other longer models. Plus, J Boats has a
>>>>>>> respectable
>
>>
>>>>>>> history
>>>>>>> >> >> of
>>>>>>> >> >>> maintaining one design integrity.
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>> Of course, there's always PHRF racing. But how many 20 - 25
>> foot
>>>>>>> >> >> cruising
>>>>>>> >> >>> sailboat owners are left with an interest in racing?
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>> Unlike 30 years ago, most people today who buy cruising or
>> day
>>>>>>> sailing
>>>>>>> >> >>> boats
>>>>>>> >> >>> in the low 20's length are first timers. From there, they
>> either
>>>>>>> drop
>>>>>>> >> >> out
>>>>>>> >> >>> or they move to larger boats more popular for cruising,
>> racing or
>>>>>>> >> >> both.
>>>>>>> >> >>> Catalina and Hunter have turned the market into that by
>> making
>>>>>>> >> >>> cheap
>>>>>>> >> >>> starter
>>>>>>> >> >>> boats people can easily abandon for yachts. Stan's main
>> problem
>>>>>>> >> >>> is
>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>> >> >> now
>>>>>>> >> >>> has a product that goes against the prevailing mindset that
>> has
>>>>>>> >> >> evolved
>>>>>>> >> >>> for
>>>>>>> >> >>> his market.
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>> Did you read the article "The Little Boat that Could" in
>> August
>>>>>>> issue
>>>>>>> >> >> of
>>>>>>> >> >>> Sailing? The title itself is a reflection of that mindset.
>> And
>>>>>>> >> >> despite
>>>>>>> >> >>> all
>>>>>>> >> >>> kinds of compliments about the R22, the piece ends with:
>> "More
>>>>>>> >> >> important,
>>>>>>> >> >>> where does one get a new tiller for a Rhodes 22?" That's
>> some
>>>>>>> insult
>>>>>>> >> >> to a
>>>>>>> >> >>> builder who has admirably supported his product for decades.
>
>> But
>>>>>>> >> >> again,
>>>>>>> >> >>> that's part of the same mindset.
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>> Rick
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:04 PM, David Culp
>>>>>>> <dculp at hsbtx.com>
>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Rick:
>>>>>>> >> >>>> What I am saying is that this boat is unique and I can't go
>
>> down
>>>>>>> >> >>>> to
>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> local boatyard and get some of the major parts that I
>>>>>>> might
>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> need.
>>>>>>> >> >> Also,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> I
>>>>>>> >> >>>> can't send an email or make a phone call to the guy who
>> built
>>>>>>> >> >>>> the
>>>>>>> >> >> boat at
>>>>>>> >> >>>> most places and expect a response. That's probably worth
>>>>>>> >> >>>> something
>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> keep
>>>>>>> >> >>>> the operation rolling as long as Stan does his part. I
>> don't
>>>>>>> >> >>>> think
>>>>>>> >> >> you
>>>>>>> >> >>>> ought to pay royalty/loyalty if you don't get anything for
>> it.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> If
>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> group
>>>>>>> >> >>>> feels we are getting something worth paying for, then I'm
>> just
>>>>>>> >> >> suggesting
>>>>>>> >> >>>> a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> small stipend annually to Stan which if everyone
>> participates
>>>>>>> >> >>>> might
>>>>>>> >> >> be a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> better solution then a percentage up front facing new
>> owners for
>>>>>>> >> >>>> loyalty/royalty. The 5% on the seller side will figure
>>>>>>> into
>
>> the
>>>>>>> >> >> price
>>>>>>> >> >>>> and
>>>>>>> >> >>>> it gets the new owner out of any obligation to pay a
>>>>>>> royalty/loyalty
>>>>>>> >> >> up
>>>>>>> >> >>>> front for two years. Then, continued association
>>>>>>> membership
>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> will
>>>>>>> >> >> require
>>>>>>> >> >>>> the annual dues.
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Imagine if you bought a Ford or Chevy used and then were
>> asked
>>>>>>> >> >>>> to
>>>>>>> >> >> send a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> 5%
>>>>>>> >> >>>> fee to the factory. Nobody would... but this is not a
>>>>>>> Ford
>
>> or
>>>>>>> Chevy.
>>>>>>> >> >> I
>>>>>>> >> >>>> figure some type of ongoing support is probably reasonable
>> as
>>>>>>> >> >>>> long
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> >> >> we
>>>>>>> >> >>>> get
>>>>>>> >> >>>> good owner support and parts availability. For example, if
>>>>>>> >> >>>> someone
>>>>>>> >> >> comes
>>>>>>> >> >>>> along and hits my rudder in the slip and I need a new one,
>> there
>>>>>>> >> >> ought to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> be
>>>>>>> >> >>>> a spare waiting at the factory to ship out. If someone
>> blows a
>>>>>>> sail
>>>>>>> >> >>>> out,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> there should be one ready to ship and the right color too.
>> I
>>>>>>> >> >>>> don't
>>>>>>> >> >> know
>>>>>>> >> >>>> if
>>>>>>> >> >>>> this is the case at GBI because spare parts mean overhead
>> and I
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> >> >>>> know
>>>>>>> >> >>>> how much overhead Stan is willing to carry. Maybe parts
>> for
>>>>>>> >> >> non-members
>>>>>>> >> >>>> ought to carry a premium that members don't have to pay-so
>>>>>>> >> >>>> another
>>>>>>> >> >> added
>>>>>>> >> >>>> incentive to be one of the family.
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> I hear what you are saying about the market. Long term,
>> owners
>>>>>>> >> >>>> are
>>>>>>> >> >> not
>>>>>>> >> >>>> going to be the ones to keep GBI afloat. You have got to
>> get
>>>>>>> >> >>>> new
>>>>>>> >> >>>> customers
>>>>>>> >> >>>> through the door. There have been a lot of good
>>>>>>> suggestions
>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> given
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> >> >> a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> lot
>>>>>>> >> >>>> of experienced people on the list. My experiences with
>> family
>>>>>>> >> >>>> run
>>>>>>> >> >>>> businesses are that we are very happy to take your money
>>>>>>> but
>
>> you
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> >> >> keep
>>>>>>> >> >>>> your advice to yourself. However, Stan seems open to some
>>>>>>> >> >> suggestions.
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Stan has an excellent product, more people need to know
>> about it
>>>>>>> >> >>>> as
>>>>>>> >> >>>> someone
>>>>>>> >> >>>> has mentioned. A new boat is becoming cost prohibitive for
>>>>>>> >> >>>> most,
>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> recycling is a good second market but I think you need a
>> "less
>>>>>>> >> >> frills"
>>>>>>> >> >>>> model
>>>>>>> >> >>>> to get younger couples through the doors. You would have
>>>>>>> to
>
>> be
>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> build it with the same quality, using the same molds at an
>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>> >> >>>> price
>>>>>>> >> >>>> point and I don't know if that is possible. I thought
>>>>>>> maybe
>
>> a
>>>>>>> >> >> stripped
>>>>>>> >> >>>> down
>>>>>>> >> >>>> racing version might be a solution. Racers don't need
>>>>>>> much
>
>> down
>>>>>>> >> >> below
>>>>>>> >> >>>> and
>>>>>>> >> >>>> will pay for quality above. The Rhodes is faster then a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Catalina
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> being
>>>>>>> >> >>>> with and that would appeal to a lot of people.
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Just my thoughts,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> David
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 17:28:36 -0400
>>>>>>> >> >>>> From: Rick <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint
>>>>>>> >> >>>> (continued)
>>>>>>> >> >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Message-ID:
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> <52e9a140907261428v6feebf53l4e923711b987ec30 at mail.gmail.com>
>
>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> David,
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> When I was considering buying my R22, the PO said, "I can
>> give
>>>>>>> >> >>>> you
>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> home
>>>>>>> >> >>>> phone number of the guy who makes the boat and he will talk
>
>> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> you
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> >> >> any
>>>>>>> >> >>>> time." Of course, that tilted me to buy his boat and
>>>>>>> >> >>>> subsequently
>>>>>>> >> >> buy
>>>>>>> >> >>>> many
>>>>>>> >> >>>> things from Stan.
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Are you suggesting Stan discontinues this attractive
>> offering in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> shrunken marketplace for pocket cruiser sailboats? I
>>>>>>> think
>
>> it
>>>>>>> >> >>>> will
>>>>>>> >> >> just
>>>>>>> >> >>>> turn customers toward high volume boats where technical
>>>>>>> >> >>>> information
>>>>>>> >> >> and
>>>>>>> >> >>>> spare parts are readily available.
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Rick
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 4:49 PM, David Culp
>> <dculp at hsbtx.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Stan:
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Thank you for your insight into the business. I dare say
>> that
>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > sailboat
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > owners don't get the inside track on happenings at the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > factory;
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > factory is even still in business that is.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > I want to comment on the loyalty/royalty program
>> concerning
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>> >> >> Rhodes.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> My
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > experience in boat ownership over the years is that a
>>>>>>> used
>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > boat
>>>>>>> >> >>>> purchaser
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > always spends the maximum funds set aside for the
>> purchase.
>>>>>>> Either
>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > purchase price and the taxes consume the entire amount or
>> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > new
>>>>>>> >> >> owner
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > takes any funds left and applies them to things the boat
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > needs.
>>>>>>> >> >> And we
>>>>>>> >> >>>> all
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > know that used boats need something all the time.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > It is a bit of a sticky wicket let's say, to request from
>> a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > new
>>>>>>> >> >> owner 5
>>>>>>> >> >>>> %
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > of
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the purchase price be paid to GBI when they have probably
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > spent
>>>>>>> >> >> more
>>>>>>> >> >>>> money
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > then they intended to begin with. The Rhodes 22 is the
>> top of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> scale
>>>>>>> >> >>>> in
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > 22' boats and used prices are not cheap. We see it all
>> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > time
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > list... Folks are interested in the Rhodes but they are
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > trying
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> purchase
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > it on a "Catalina" budget; so they "lurk" on the list
>> either
>>>>>>> saving
>>>>>>> >> >> up
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > their
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > cash or hoping to see a cheap boat come up for sale
>> whereby
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > they
>>>>>>> >> >>>> promptly
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > go
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > off-list and complete the transaction.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > You will remember in my case, that I sent GBI a check for
>> $
>>>>>>> 200.00
>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> cover
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the promotional materials you sent me-but that was not
>>>>>>> 5%
>
>> of
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>> >> >> price
>>>>>>> >> >>>> I
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > paid. In the meantime, I have enjoyed the technical
>> support
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > that
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> >> >>>> have
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > received as a member of the list from the owners and from
>>>>>>> yourself.
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> That
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > is
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > worth something, even though I didn't realize it in the
>>>>>>> beginning.
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> This
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > boat and this list are pretty unique to the boating
>>>>>>> world.
>
>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > I propose and this will make some people on this list
>> unhappy,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > in
>>>>>>> >> >> fact,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > very
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > unhappy.... An Owner's association with an annual fee.
>> For
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > that
>>>>>>> >> >> annual
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > fee,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > you have got to provide something however. Which is
>> another
>>>>>>> >> >> problem
>>>>>>> >> >>>> with
>>>>>>> >> >>>> a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > royalty fee upfront; people always need to feel that they
>> are
>>>>>>> >> >> getting
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > something for their money. In this case, for the annual
>
>>>>>>> >> >> association
>>>>>>> >> >>>> fee:
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Admission to the list
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Technical support either from members or the factory
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Availability and a price list of parts, sails, etc. that
>> is
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > kept
>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> date
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > so I can purchase it from you if I need something.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Except for the parts and prices, this is pretty much what
>> we
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > are
>>>>>>> >> >> doing
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > already. Maybe you could come up with some member
>> specials on
>>>>>>> >> >> pricing
>>>>>>> >> >>>> from
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > time to time for sails or parts or write an occasional
>> article
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> >> >>>> only
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > members would get. I don't want to burden you with a
>> bunch of
>>>>>>> >> >> extra
>>>>>>> >> >>>> work,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > but there needs to be something unique about membership.
>> In
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > this
>>>>>>> >> >> way,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > new owner would feel they are getting something and it
>> would
>>>>>>> >> >> generate
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > revenue for you over the longer term. As part of the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > membership,
>>>>>>> >> >> if we
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > agree to give you 5% of the selling price when we sell,
>> then I
>>>>>>> >> >> don't
>>>>>>> >> >>>> have
>>>>>>> >> >>>> a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > problem with it; especially if the list helps my estate
>> sell
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>> >> >> boat.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > I'll
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > even stipulate it in my will. I figure if I owe a
>> "loyalty
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > fee",
>>>>>>> >> >> it is
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > probably to the list members who have taken their time
>> and
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > been
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> >> >>>> helpful
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > over the years. If paying you a "royalty" fee helps keep
>> GBI
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > in
>>>>>>> >> >>>> business
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > then that helps them and you. As a seller, if I pay 5%
>> then
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > it
>>>>>>> >> >> gets my
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > buyer on the list free for two years. Then he/she can do
>> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> responsible
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > thing and start paying their own royalty/loyalty dues.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > The other situation which started the discussion in the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > beginning
>>>>>>> >> >> has
>>>>>>> >> >>>> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> do
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > with after-market products or other parts unique to the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Rhodes.
>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>> >> >> a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > member
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > has an after-market item to sell to the list which is
>> unique
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > to
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Rhodes
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > and/or would normally be available from GBI for sale,
>> then
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > he/she
>>>>>>> >> >> goes
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > through you. They can advertise it and discuss it; but
>>>>>>> I
>
>> buy
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > it
>>>>>>> >> >> from
>>>>>>> >> >>>> you
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > after you have added your mark up or it cannot be
>> advertised
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > member's
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > list by another member or by a third party. Simple as
>> that.
>>>>>>> They
>>>>>>> >> >> are
>>>>>>> >> >>>> a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > supplier of General Boats and you are the distributor to
>> me.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Obviously,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > list membership information is kept proprietary to
>>>>>>> prevent
>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > direct
>>>>>>> >> >>>> marketing
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > by a third party. If a member tries to go behind your
>> back...
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > we
>>>>>>> >> >> can
>>>>>>> >> >>>> take
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > care of that. If something comes up for sale on the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > open-market
>>>>>>> >> >> that
>>>>>>> >> >>>> is
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > unique to the Rhodes 22 and there are legal issues, then
>> that
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > is
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > discussion for lawyers and not for this forum.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Right now MJM is administering the list. I think he or
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > whomever
>>>>>>> >> >> takes
>>>>>>> >> >>>> on
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > those duties gets their membership free.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > I hope you will take these suggestions under advisement
>> and if
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > it
>>>>>>> >> >> is of
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > interest, let us know what you think the annual
>>>>>>> membership
>
>> fee
>>>>>>> >> >> should
>>>>>>> >> >>>> be.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > For everyone else, let the flaming begin.... But just
>> keep in
>>>>>>> mind
>>>>>>> >> >>>> what
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > purpose is here. Trying to come up with something
>> palatable
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > to
>>>>>>> >> >> help
>>>>>>> >> >>>> GBI
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > now
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > and us in the long run.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > David
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > PS:
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Other thoughts: The Rhodes 22 website is "technically"
>> one of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >> >> best
>>>>>>> >> >>>> I
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > have ever seen as far as the boat information goes.
>> However,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > it
>>>>>>> >> >> needs
>>>>>>> >> >>>> some
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > polish to be a more effective marketing tool. More
>> timely
>>>>>>> >> >> information
>>>>>>> >> >>>> and
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > more emphasis on the recycle program and availability of
>> used
>>>>>>> boats
>>>>>>> >> >>>> comes
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > mind since new boat sales are down. Also, have you ever
>>>>>>> considered
>>>>>>> >> >> a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> new
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > "entry level" boat without all the bells and whistles
>> which
>>>>>>> >> >> someone
>>>>>>> >> >>>> could
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > purchase at a bit lower price? You've talked about a
>> racer
>>>>>>> before.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Could
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > you come up with something without having to have new
>>>>>>> >> >> molds-marketed as
>>>>>>> >> >>>> a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > "Sport" Rhodes 22? Lower the interior weight, put a
>> standard
>>>>>>> mast
>>>>>>> >> >> and
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > racing sails on it and a spinaker. Catalina has a
>>>>>>> "sport
>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > model"
>>>>>>> >> >> and it
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > does
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > pretty well I think. Just some ideas I have batted
>> around. dc
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 13:46:52 -0400
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint
>> (continued)
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
>>>>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>
>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Message-ID: <038FA83D95464CCFB609CA722206B2D8 at rhodes>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Rose and I want to thank you all for indulging GB in the
>> use
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > of
>>>>>>> >> >> your
>>>>>>> >> >>>> forum
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > on an issue that is so basic to GB.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > We want to thank those that take issue with our position
>> but
>>>>>>> >> >> attempt to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> be
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > evenhanded. (If academically interested, we can provide
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > exhibits
>>>>>>> >> >> and
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > witnesses that prove the accuracy of our facts.)
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > We are empathetic with those who chafe at this sort of
>> thing
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > and
>>>>>>> >> >> remain
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > silent - in our younger days we probably would have done
>> the
>>>>>>> same.
>>>>>>> >> >> It
>>>>>>> >> >>>> was
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > not until 50 that we adopted our tribe's slogan of
>> "never
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > again"
>>>>>>> >> >> and
>>>>>>> >> >>>> took
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > on anyone who wronged us: A policeman. A lawyer. a
>> station
>>>>>>> wagon
>>>>>>> >> >>>> full
>>>>>>> >> >>>> of
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > nuns (just kidding about the station wagon), a giant
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > corporation
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > docketing at the US Supreme Court. We prevailed in all
>> these
>>>>>>> pro
>>>>>>> >> >> se
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > actions simply because we do not complain unless the
>>>>>>> facts
>
>> and
>>>>>>> >> >> logic
>>>>>>> >> >>>> are
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > solidly on our side - but we digress.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > And, in particular, we want to thank those who understand
>> the
>>>>>>> >> >> logical
>>>>>>> >> >>>> side
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > of our position and offered suggestions.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Re the issue of the Loyalty/Royalty program: Its
>> reasoning
>>>>>>> seems
>>>>>>> >> >> so
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > correct that it is hard to comprehend dissent. Those
>> thinking
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > us
>>>>>>> >> >> crazy
>>>>>>> >> >>>> for
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > such radical thinking have to sit in this chair for just
>> one
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > day.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Interestingly, dissenters enjoy products from many
>> segments of
>>>>>>> >> >> industry
>>>>>>> >> >>>> who
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > have already worked out such support programs, yet these
>>>>>>> dissenters
>>>>>>> >> >>>> seem
>>>>>>> >> >>>> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > be drawing their own grandfather clause line as to which
>>>>>>> industries
>>>>>>> >> >>>> should
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > not be entitled to residuals on their efforts. Those in
>> this
>>>>>>> >> >> group
>>>>>>> >> >>>> have
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > but to request and we will expand on the good sense of
>> this
>>>>>>> >> >> program.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> It
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > has been emotionally gratifying seeing former members of
>> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > "You
>>>>>>> >> >> must
>>>>>>> >> >>>> be
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > crazy" society, when, becoming members of the "List"
>> family,
>>>>>>> seeing
>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > light and converting.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Re the issue of the 50 years creating a unique product
>>>>>>> now
>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > having
>>>>>>> >> >>>> others
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > take bites of its parts for their unilateral gain, if not
>
>>>>>>> resolved,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> will
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > come home to bite us all. ( When I walked out of the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > hallowed
>>>>>>> >> >> halls
>>>>>>> >> >>>> of
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > ole
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > PU I vowed not to go into business because I could not
>> stand
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>> >> >> ethics
>>>>>>> >> >>>> I
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > saw, and assumed, had to go with that territory. But it
>> was
>>>>>>> >> >>>> pre-ordained;
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > I
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > ended up spending most of my life a driving capitalist.
>> And
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > it
>>>>>>> >> >> has
>>>>>>> >> >>>> been
>>>>>>> >> >>>> a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > blast, for me and my partner of 60 years - because we
>> made the
>>>>>>> >> >> making
>>>>>>> >> >>>> of
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > money our secondary goal. (The effects of that kind of
>>>>>>> religious
>>>>>>> >> >>>> fervor
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > has surprisingly turned out to be rough on our
>>>>>>> opponents.)
>
>>>>>>> There
>>>>>>> >> >> are
>>>>>>> >> >>>> ways
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > we can go to stop the taking of free bites of the
>> profitable
>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>> >> >> side
>>>>>>> >> >>>> of
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > GB's business::
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > When we sold Venture Sailboats (Macgregor), dealers could
>> buy
>>>>>>> sails
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > elsewhere and make an additional profit on Roger's
>> creation at
>>>>>>> >> >> Roger's
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > expense. Roger, who graduated at the top of his class at
>
>>>>>>> Stamford,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> simply
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > raised the price of his boat and included sails. Being
>> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > tough
>>>>>>> >> >>>> business
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > man he is, he did it without notice and dealers had to
>>>>>>> eat
>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > their
>>>>>>> >> >> sail
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > inventories they bought elsewhere. We are slow learners
>> but
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> >> >>>> price
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Rhodes sales to include a part an outside seller has
>> latched
>>>>>>> onto.
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Or,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > We could simply be unresponsive to boat owners who
>> purchase
>>>>>>> parts,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> unique
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the Rhodes design, from others in competition with GB or
>> who
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > fail
>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> honor
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > agreements with GB. We inherently do not like this
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > retaliatory
>>>>>>> >> >> type
>>>>>>> >> >>>> of
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > solution, but it is a solution. Or
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > We could simply close shop and that would close the
>>>>>>> market
>
>> for
>>>>>>> >> >>>> unauthorized
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > parts vendors. This "cutting off ones nose" solution
>>>>>>> is
>
>> not
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > our
>>>>>>> >> >>>> choice.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > However, not taking on rogue suppliers, eating away at
>> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > life
>>>>>>> >> >> cash
>>>>>>> >> >>>> flow
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > of the company, makes it an inevitable solution.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > In an effort to avoid any of the above solutions, based
>>>>>>> on
>
>> the
>>>>>>> >> >> thinking
>>>>>>> >> >>>> of
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > List members in this particular complaint of GB vs. Art
>>>>>>> C,
>
>> we
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> >> >> some
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > proposals that we will present to the List next week for
>> your
>>>>>>> >> >>>> appreciated
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > feedback. The pro bono time we are having to devote to
>> the
>>>>>>> >> >> problems
>>>>>>> >> >>>> and
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > questions of private sale Rhodes is becoming so
>> overwhelming
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > (and
>>>>>>> >> >> we
>>>>>>> >> >>>> hate
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > be mean spirited enough to tell them where to go) that we
>> just
>>>>>>> >> >> can't
>>>>>>> >> >>>> seem
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > manage all of this issue in one sitting.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > ss
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>> mailing
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > list
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>>>>>>> mailing
>
>> list
>>>>>>> >> >>>> go
>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> >> >>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>> list
>>>>>>> >> >>> go
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> >> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> >> >>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> --
>>>>>>> >> >> View this message in context:
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>
>> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660
>>>>>>> >> >> 048p24697834.html
>>>>>>> >> >> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>> list
>>>>>>> >> >> go
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> >> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> >> >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>> list
>>>>>>> >> >> go
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> >> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> >> >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >--
>>>>>>> >> >View this message in context:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>
>>
> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660048p
> 24700483.html
>>>>>>> >> >Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >__________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> >To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>> list
>
>> go
>>>>>>> >> >to
>>>>>>> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> >> >__________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>> go
>>>>>>> >> to
>>>>>>> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >__________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>>> go
>
>> to
>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> >__________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>> to
>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>> to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------
>>>
>>>Message: 3
>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:43:04 -0400
>>>From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Message-ID: <1BA7BBD3036947F289B013E52D813110 at rhodes>
>>>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>> reply-type=original
>>>
>>>I guess this is a dear John letter
>>>
>>>John Shulick,
>>>
>>>That does not sound like the Stan I know. I know I do not ignore the
>> good
>>>guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and I do
know
>
>> I
>>>do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get
through
>
>> as
>>>was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.
>>>
>>>While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are, please
>> do
>>>not feel slighted because
>>>at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands on the
list.
>
>>>
>>>I do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my time)
>> and
>>>I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating wanting to
>> put a
>>>lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not built by
>> us) I
>>>try very had to discourage them from pouring money into it with the
>> advice
>>>to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model since the
>>>differences are so drastic.
>>>
>>>I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you got was
>> not
>>>satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell whole
boat
>
>>>and parts buyers that everything from us is returnable. Did you send
>> back
>>>any faulty parts - if not, please do.
>>>
>>>ss
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ben,
>>>>
>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has many
>> complex
>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not shure
>>>> whether
>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and what the
>>>> price
>>>> point would be for a "sport model". GB would have to make that
>>>> determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any posts I
>>>> place
>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and not through
>>>> him.
>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and inquired about
>> some
>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a tiller
>> for
>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder (but
>>>> usable)
>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for small
>> parts
>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources for my
>> mast
>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this week as
>> part
>>>> of
>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an
>> equivilent) ,
>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales to me and by
>> the
>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose $2,000 more.
>> I
>>>> still am in the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a complete
>>>> set
>
>> of
>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for parts and
>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make them
>>>> as
>
>>>> needed.
>>>>
>>>> John S
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John;
>>>> You're referring to the old US car manufacturers technique known as
>> "the
>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but add on
>>>> an
>
>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our butts when
>> they
>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was color.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that much less
>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm not
>>>> building
>>>> or selling boats, or cars.
>>>>
>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories without
>>>> losing
>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable.
>>>>
>>>> BenCittadino
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>
>>
> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660048p
> 24704459.html
>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------
>>>
>>>Message: 4
>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:49:10 -0400
>>>From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Message-ID: <1D4BA299E8024EB6A63F0999A9BD8ED3 at rhodes>
>>>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>> reply-type=original
>>>
>>>even my typing is getting sloppy -
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
>>>To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 9:43 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>
>>>
>>>>I guess this is a dear John letter
>>>>
>>>> John Shulick,
>>>>
>>>> That does not sound like the Stan I know. I know I do not ignore the
>>>> good
>>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and I do
>> know
>>>> I
>>>> do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get
>> through
>>>> as
>>>> was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.
>>>>
>>>> While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are,
>>>> please
>
>> do
>>>> not feel slighted because
>>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands on the
>> list.
>>>>
>>>> I do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my
>> time)
>>>> and
>>>> I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating wanting to
>> put
>>>> a
>>>> lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not built by
>> us)
>>>> I
>>>> try very had to discourage them from pouring money into it with the
>> advice
>>>> to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model since
>>>> the
>
>>
>>>> differences are so drastic.
>>>>
>>>> I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you got
>> was
>>>> not
>>>> satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell whole
>> boat
>>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is returnable. Did you send
>>>> back
>>>> any faulty parts - if not, please do.
>>>>
>>>> ss
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has many
>> complex
>>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not shure
>>>>> whether
>>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and what
>>>>> the
>
>>>>> price
>>>>> point would be for a "sport model". GB would have to make that
>>>>> determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any posts I
>>>>> place
>>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and not
>>>>> through
>
>>>>> him.
>>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and inquired about
>>>>> some
>>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a tiller
>> for
>>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder (but
>>>>> usable)
>>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for small
>> parts
>>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources for my
>
>>>>> mast
>>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this week as
>> part
>>>>> of
>>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an
>> equivilent)
>>>>> ,
>>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales to me and by
>> the
>>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose $2,000
>>>>> more.
>
>> I
>>>>> still am in the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a complete
>> set
>>>>> of
>>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for parts
>>>>> and
>
>>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make them
>> as
>>>>> needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> John S
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> John;
>>>>> You're referring to the old US car manufacturers technique known as
>> "the
>>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but add on
>> an
>>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our butts when
>>>>> they
>>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was color.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that much less
>>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm not
>>>>> building
>>>>> or selling boats, or cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories without
>>>>> losing
>>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable.
>>>>>
>>>>> BenCittadino
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>
>>
> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660048p
> 24704459.html
>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>> to
>
>>
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------
>>>
>>>Message: 5
>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:11:31 -0400
>>>From: Lou Rosenberg <lsr3 at nyu.edu>
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all fairness
>>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Message-ID: <8ADB74E6-CF8C-4B63-B1BE-199E3A0F2676 at nyu.edu>
>>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes;
>
>> format=flowed
>>>
>>>Rhodes owners, wanna be owners, and lurkers like me,
>>>
>>>I bought my R22 from a discouraged owner who had not taken care of
>>>the boat and was basically dumping it in the back of
>>>a Pt Jefferson yard back in '04. I had been on the list for about a
>>>year before this and Stan advised me NOT to buy that boat.
>>>I went against his advice and through the years , Stan and Elton have
>>>helped me greatly. I ended up only buying about $1500, worth of rigging
>>>and supplies on a visit to Edenton NC in 2005, but subsequently Elton
>>>brought up a much needed used bow pulpit and new traveler assembly
>>>to my yard a few yrs later.
>>>
>>>In all fairness I have not bought that much from GB over the years
>>>but trust their judgement and of course Stan was right, I should've
>>>waited and I may've found
>>>a better deal. Restoring any boat is NOT that much fun but there are
>>>rewards of doing it yourself, but sailing is the eventual goal and
>>>ive sacrificed many sailing days to get where I am now.
>>>
>>>I owe so much to all the people on this list ALL of you helping me
>>>out with questions for this novice sailor who has few skills in terms
>>>of carpentry, fibreglassing
>>>and the like. Next Thurs I hope to launch Miracles for the rest of
>>>the year, keeping her in the calm, semi-polluted waters of Mill Basin
>>>all winter long.
>>>
>>>wish me luck , I'll need it.
>>>
>>>Stan, maybe its time to bring in new blood and find a way to accept
>>>some sort of retirement from all this grind?
>>>
>>>all the best
>>>and thanks for all your help
>>>
>>>Lou Rosenberg
>>>s/v Miracles
>>>On Jul 29, 2009, at 9:43 AM, stan wrote:
>>>
>>>> I guess this is a dear John letter
>>>>
>>>> John Shulick,
>>>>
>>>> That does not sound like the Stan I know. I know I do not ignore
>>>> the good
>>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and I
>>>> do know I
>>>> do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get
>>>> through as
>>>> was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.
>>>>
>>>> While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are,
>>>> please do
>>>> not feel slighted because
>>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands on the
>>>> list.
>>>>
>>>> I do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my
>>>> time) and
>>>> I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating wanting
>>>> to put a
>>>> lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not built
>>>> by us) I
>>>> try very had to discourage them from pouring money into it with the
>>>> advice
>>>> to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model since
>>>> the
>>>> differences are so drastic.
>>>>
>>>> I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you
>>>> got was not
>>>> satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell
>>>> whole boat
>>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is returnable. Did you
>>>> send back
>>>> any faulty parts - if not, please do.
>>>>
>>>> ss
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has many
>>>>> complex
>>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not shure
>>>>> whether
>>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and what
>>>>> the
>>>>> price
>>>>> point would be for a "sport model". GB would have to make that
>>>>> determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any posts I
>>>>> place
>>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and not
>>>>> through
>>>>> him.
>>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and inquired
>>>>> about some
>>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a
>>>>> tiller for
>>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder (but
>>>>> usable)
>>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for
>>>>> small parts
>>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources for
>>>>> my mast
>>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this week
>>>>> as part
>>>>> of
>>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an
>>>>> equivilent) ,
>>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales to me and
>>>>> by the
>>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose $2,000
>>>>> more. I
>>>>> still am in the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a
>>>>> complete set of
>>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for parts
>>>>> and
>>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make
>>>>> them as
>>>>> needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> John S
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> John;
>>>>> You're referring to the old US car manufacturers technique known
>>>>> as "the
>>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but add
>>>>> on an
>>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our butts
>>>>> when they
>>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was color.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that much less
>>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm not
>>>>> building
>>>>> or selling boats, or cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories without
>>>>> losing
>>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable.
>>>>>
>>>>> BenCittadino
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-
>>>>> tp24660048p24704459.html
>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>> go to
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>Lou Rosenberg
>>>Videographer
>>>
>>>Steinhardt School of Culture, Education and
>>>Human Development at NYU
>>>
>>>239 Greene Street, Room 315
>>>lsr3 at nyu.edu
>>>
>>>(212) 998-5122
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------
>>>
>>>Message: 6
>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:04:28 -0400 (EDT)
>>>From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all fairness
>>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Message-ID:
>>>
>> <25945721.1248879868382.JavaMail.root at elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>
>>>
>>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>>Lou,
>>>
>>>My guess is retirement in 10-15 years, although I marvel at his, Rose's,
>> and Elton's energy in this business arena. The composite support effort
>> I
>> have seen by Rhoadies to help other fleet skippers is incredible, and
>> will
>> become even more vital in the years ahead. As parts and accessories may
>> become less available, I, for one, have been keeping my eye out for
>> alternatives. As I discovered a year ago, the spreader brackets are
>> available from
>> Dwyer (I'd keep a close eye on your's if they become distorted with
>> mast
>
>> stepping using the old GB method). The alternative transom crutch I
>> use
>
>> and posted can be fabricated by a SS shop I have done work with.
>>>
>>>I have been told that replacement parts is one of the greatest concerns
>> of fleet skippers if we cannot obtain from GB, a problem I encountered
>> as
>
>> long as two years ago. I have usually been able to find a substitute as
>> necessary. Maybe we can delay Stan's retirement until 20 years!
>>>
>>>Art
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Lou Rosenberg <lsr3 at nyu.edu>
>>>>Sent: Jul 29, 2009 10:11 AM
>>>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all fairness
>>>>
>>>>Rhodes owners, wanna be owners, and lurkers like me,
>>>>
>>>>I bought my R22 from a discouraged owner who had not taken care of
>>>>the boat and was basically dumping it in the back of
>>>>a Pt Jefferson yard back in '04. I had been on the list for about a
>>>>year before this and Stan advised me NOT to buy that boat.
>>>>I went against his advice and through the years , Stan and Elton have
>>>>helped me greatly. I ended up only buying about $1500, worth of
rigging
>
>>
>>>>and supplies on a visit to Edenton NC in 2005, but subsequently Elton
>>>>brought up a much needed used bow pulpit and new traveler assembly
>>>>to my yard a few yrs later.
>>>>
>>>>In all fairness I have not bought that much from GB over the years
>>>>but trust their judgement and of course Stan was right, I should've
>>>>waited and I may've found
>>>>a better deal. Restoring any boat is NOT that much fun but there are
>>>>rewards of doing it yourself, but sailing is the eventual goal and
>>>>ive sacrificed many sailing days to get where I am now.
>>>>
>>>>I owe so much to all the people on this list ALL of you helping me
>>>>out with questions for this novice sailor who has few skills in terms
>
>>>>of carpentry, fibreglassing
>>>>and the like. Next Thurs I hope to launch Miracles for the rest of
>>>>the year, keeping her in the calm, semi-polluted waters of Mill Basin
>
>>>>all winter long.
>>>>
>>>>wish me luck , I'll need it.
>>>>
>>>>Stan, maybe its time to bring in new blood and find a way to accept
>>>>some sort of retirement from all this grind?
>>>>
>>>>all the best
>>>>and thanks for all your help
>>>>
>>>>Lou Rosenberg
>>>>s/v Miracles
>>>>On Jul 29, 2009, at 9:43 AM, stan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I guess this is a dear John letter
>>>>>
>>>>> John Shulick,
>>>>>
>>>>> That does not sound like the Stan I know. I know I do not ignore
>>>>> the good
>>>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and I
>>>>> do know I
>>>>> do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get
>>>>> through as
>>>>> was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.
>>>>>
>>>>> While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are,
>>>>> please do
>>>>> not feel slighted because
>>>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands on the
>>>>> list.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my
>>>>> time) and
>>>>> I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating wanting
>>>>> to put a
>>>>> lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not built
>>>>> by us) I
>>>>> try very had to discourage them from pouring money into it with the
>
>>>>> advice
>>>>> to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model since
>>>>> the
>>>>> differences are so drastic.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you
>>>>> got was not
>>>>> satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell
>>>>> whole boat
>>>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is returnable. Did you
>>>>> send back
>>>>> any faulty parts - if not, please do.
>>>>>
>>>>> ss
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has many
>>>>>> complex
>>>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not shure
>>>>>> whether
>>>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and what
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> price
>>>>>> point would be for a "sport model". GB would have to make that
>>>>>> determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any posts
>>>>>> I
>
>>>>>> place
>>>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and not
>>>>>> through
>>>>>> him.
>>>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and inquired
>>>>>> about some
>>>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a
>>>>>> tiller for
>>>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder (but
>>>>>> usable)
>>>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for
>>>>>> small parts
>>>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources for
>
>>>>>> my mast
>>>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this week
>>>>>> as part
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an
>>>>>> equivilent) ,
>>>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales to me and
>>>>>> by the
>>>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose $2,000
>>>>>> more. I
>>>>>> still am in the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a
>>>>>> complete set of
>>>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for parts
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make
>>>>>> them as
>>>>>> needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John S
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John;
>>>>>> You're referring to the old US car manufacturers technique known
>>>>>> as "the
>>>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but add
>>>>>> on an
>>>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our butts
>>>>>> when they
>>>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was color.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that much
>>>>>> less
>
>>>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm not
>>>>>> building
>>>>>> or selling boats, or cars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories without
>>>>>> losing
>>>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BenCittadino
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-
>>>>>> tp24660048p24704459.html
>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>> go to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>Lou Rosenberg
>>>>Videographer
>>>>
>>>>Steinhardt School of Culture, Education and
>>>>Human Development at NYU
>>>>
>>>>239 Greene Street, Room 315
>>>>lsr3 at nyu.edu
>>>>
>>>>(212) 998-5122
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------
>>>
>>>Message: 7
>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:05:27 -0400
>>>From: "Lowe, Rob" <rlowe at vt.edu>
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all fairness
>>>To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Message-ID:
>>>
>>> <7A5B57319AFF9D4A8060949F2E724D5E02B8B38D at mirkwood.cc.w2k.vt.edu>
>
>>
>>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>>Lou,
>>>Good luck to you! It's been fun following along with your trials and
>>>progress over the years. I could have done what you have done, I'm glad
>>>my '76 was sailable from day one.
>>>
>>>Now where is Mill Basin and Rockaway Inlet exactly? I'm hunting on
>>>yahoo maps and you're in the New York area?? - Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Lou Rosenberg
>>>Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 10:12 AM
>>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all fairness
>>>
>>>Rhodes owners, wanna be owners, and lurkers like me,
>>>
>>>I bought my R22 from a discouraged owner who had not taken care of
>>>the boat and was basically dumping it in the back of
>>>a Pt Jefferson yard back in '04. I had been on the list for about a
>>>year before this and Stan advised me NOT to buy that boat.
>>>I went against his advice and through the years , Stan and Elton have
>>>helped me greatly. I ended up only buying about $1500, worth of rigging
>>>and supplies on a visit to Edenton NC in 2005, but subsequently Elton
>>>brought up a much needed used bow pulpit and new traveler assembly
>>>to my yard a few yrs later.
>>>
>>>In all fairness I have not bought that much from GB over the years
>>>but trust their judgement and of course Stan was right, I should've
>>>waited and I may've found
>>>a better deal. Restoring any boat is NOT that much fun but there are
>>>rewards of doing it yourself, but sailing is the eventual goal and
>>>ive sacrificed many sailing days to get where I am now.
>>>
>>>I owe so much to all the people on this list ALL of you helping me
>>>out with questions for this novice sailor who has few skills in terms
>>>of carpentry, fibreglassing
>>>and the like. Next Thurs I hope to launch Miracles for the rest of
>>>the year, keeping her in the calm, semi-polluted waters of Mill Basin
>>>all winter long.
>>>
>>>wish me luck , I'll need it.
>>>
>>>Stan, maybe its time to bring in new blood and find a way to accept
>>>some sort of retirement from all this grind?
>>>
>>>all the best
>>>and thanks for all your help
>>>
>>>Lou Rosenberg
>>>s/v Miracles
>>>On Jul 29, 2009, at 9:43 AM, stan wrote:
>>>
>>>> I guess this is a dear John letter
>>>>
>>>> John Shulick,
>>>>
>>>> That does not sound like the Stan I know. I know I do not ignore
>>>> the good
>>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and I
>>>> do know I
>>>> do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get
>>>> through as
>>>> was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.
>>>>
>>>> While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are,
>>>> please do
>>>> not feel slighted because
>>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands on the
>>>> list.
>>>>
>>>> I do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my
>>>> time) and
>>>> I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating wanting
>>>> to put a
>>>> lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not built
>>>> by us) I
>>>> try very had to discourage them from pouring money into it with the
>>>> advice
>>>> to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model since
>>>> the
>>>> differences are so drastic.
>>>>
>>>> I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you
>>>> got was not
>>>> satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell
>>>> whole boat
>>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is returnable. Did you
>>>> send back
>>>> any faulty parts - if not, please do.
>>>>
>>>> ss
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has many
>>>>> complex
>>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not shure
>>>>> whether
>>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and what
>>>>> the
>>>>> price
>>>>> point would be for a "sport model". GB would have to make that
>>>>> determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any posts I
>>>>> place
>>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and not
>>>>> through
>>>>> him.
>>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and inquired
>>>>> about some
>>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a
>>>>> tiller for
>>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder (but
>>>>> usable)
>>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for
>>>>> small parts
>>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources for
>>>>> my mast
>>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this week
>>>>> as part
>>>>> of
>>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an
>>>>> equivilent) ,
>>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales to me and
>>>>> by the
>>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose $2,000
>>>>> more. I
>>>>> still am in the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a
>>>>> complete set of
>>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for parts
>>>>> and
>>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make
>>>>> them as
>>>>> needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> John S
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> John;
>>>>> You're referring to the old US car manufacturers technique known
>>>>> as "the
>>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but add
>>>>> on an
>>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our butts
>>>>> when they
>>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was color.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that much less
>>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm not
>>>>> building
>>>>> or selling boats, or cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories without
>>>>> losing
>>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable.
>>>>>
>>>>> BenCittadino
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-
>>>>> tp24660048p24704459.html
>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>> go to
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>Lou Rosenberg
>>>Videographer
>>>
>>>Steinhardt School of Culture, Education and
>>>Human Development at NYU
>>>
>>>239 Greene Street, Room 315
>>>lsr3 at nyu.edu
>>>
>>>(212) 998-5122
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------
>>>
>>>Message: 8
>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:30:55 -0400 (EDT)
>>>From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Yellowstone Lake, Jackson Lake Sailing
>>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>Message-ID:
>>>
>> <10147864.1248881456189.JavaMail.root at elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>
>>>
>>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>>Caesar,
>>>
>>>How goes the sailing? I have been told of the excellent sailing in the
>> Wyoming area by a member of the Montgomery fleet, possibly not far from
>> you
>> at all. Apparently Yellowstone Lake is excellent, with the only
>> exception
>> being a fixed bridge between the lake and marina. The same skipper
>> reported that Jackson Lake has no obstructions to contend with, and is
>> much more
>> favorable anyway, apparently even warm enough to swim in. My Swedish
>> cousins laugh at our caution about cold water and insist they usually
>> break the
>> Baltic ice to take a refreshing dip.
>>>
>>>I am told the marinas on the south shore are impressive, and the only
>> irritant is mosquitos in the shallow water areas of the lake.
>>>
>>>Have you tried sailing here? I camped there years ago, and it is
awesome
>
>> scenery.
>>>
>>>Best to you,
>>>
>>>Art
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Rhodes22-list mailing list
>>>Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>
>>>
>>>End of Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 1931, Issue 1
>>>**********************************************
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>__________________________________________________
>>
>>
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>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
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>>
>>
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>> __________________________________________________
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> --
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