[Rhodes22-list] Help: Manasquan Inlet Advice needed.
KUHN, LELAND
LKUHN at cnmc.org
Mon Aug 3 14:07:38 EDT 2009
Lou,
Good article on the bay, inlet, and canal in this month's issue of Sail
magazine. Sounds like the canal has a noticeable current. Apparently
lots of bigger and less maneuverable boats handle it okay.
Lee
1986 Rhodes22 At Ease
Kent Island, MD
-----Original Message-----
From: loumoore at aol.com [mailto:loumoore at aol.com]
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Help: Manasquan Inlet Advice needed.
Dear Rhodes:
Help!
Any advice on dealing with Manasquan Inlet in NJ?
I am thinking of sailing my boat from Sandy Hook to the Inlet on
Friday.? Forecast is for 8-10 knt winds from Northwest--so that's good.?
I plan on entering at low tide to have that pushing me.? Still I am
worried the boat may have trouble in the inlet itself and have more
trouble navigating the canal, if I take that route.
Any advice appreciated.
Thanks,
Lou
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Sent: Mon, Aug 3, 2009 8:08 am
Subject: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 1936, Issue 1
Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to
rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: AC panel location? (Ron Singerman)
2. Michigan (cowie)
3. Cracks in Cement Ballast (E.Andler)
4. Re: Cracks in Cement Ballast (michael meltzer)
5. Re: Rhodes22-list] might be a mistake here (keblinskas Keblinskas)
6. Re: Michigan (keblinskas Keblinskas)
7. Re: - FYI - might be a mistake here (John Lock)
8. Re: Rummy the great white hunter. (R22RumRunner at aol.com)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 22:03:24 -0400
From: "Ron Singerman" <sail at tds.net>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] AC panel location?
To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID: <9E078316505B428CA9A0808488E3EA7D at computer>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Chris,
Thanks. I did not see that in the corner. I just dropped a note to
Stan to
see if I can purchase one. I did not know that one as small as that was
available. It would definately meet my needs.
>>ron<<
S/V Serenity
----- Original Message -----
From: "cowie" <ccowie at cowieassociates.com>
To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] AC panel location?
>
> Ron
>
> what I intended to show you in the photo is labeled "
> main shore" this the 30 amp breaker for incomng shore power that
provides
> ac
> electric to the ac outlets on the boat. This is just a safety switch
in
> case ac is overloaded. There is no charging but I may add that
feature.
>
> Ron Singerman-2 wrote:
>>
>> Chris,
>>
>> I just realized that you might be referring to the AC plug. The plug
is
>> a
>> GFI plug and not a circuit breaker.
>>
>>>>ron<<
>> S/V Serenity
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "cowie" <ccowie at cowieassociates.com>
>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 7:54 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] AC panel location?
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Ron:
>>>
>>> Enclosed is a photo of the 30 amp breaker stan installed in by new
2009
>>> R22.
>>> I also recently purchased Don Casey's book and am thinking about
>>> installing
>>> a battery charger and volt meter system for next season.
>>>
>>> http://www.nabble.com/file/p24783352/IMG_0510.jpeg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ron Singerman-2 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Lee,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the comeback. The panel in the pic is your 12 volt
panel.
>>>> I
>>>> have one in the same place on Serenity. The additional panel that
I am
>>>> talking about is an AC (120 volt) beaker panel that is just about
the
>>>> same
>>>> size as the 12 volt panel that you and I have. I'm not quite sure
that
>>>> this
>>>> is necessary ( I would welcome any opinions by others that know
more
>>>> about
>>>> electricity than I) on the Rhodes.
>>>>
>>>>>>ron<<
>>>> S/V serenity
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Leland" <LKUHN at cnmc.org>
>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:51 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] AC panel location?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ron,
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's where Stan put my panel:
>>>>>
>>>>>
http://www.nabble.com/file/p24778123/At%2BEase%2Bin%2BApril%2B037.jpg
>>>>> At+Ease+in+April+037.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> Lee
>>>>> 1986 Rhodes22 At Ease
>>>>> Kent Island, MD
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I recently read Don Casey's book on sailboat electrics. As a
result I
>>>>> would
>>>>> like to install an AC breaker panel for my 30 amp shore power.
The
>>>>> problem
>>>>> is I can't find a location to put the panel. Any ideas or
experience
>>>>> would
>>>>> be appreciated. Thanks...
>>>>>
>>>>> Fair winds,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>ron<<
>>>>> S/V Serenity
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/AC-panel-location--tp24777521p24778123.html
>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
go to
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
to
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://www.nabble.com/AC-panel-location--tp24777521p24783352.html
>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/AC-panel-location--tp24777521p24783915.html
> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 19:20:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: cowie <ccowie at cowieassociates.com>
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Michigan
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Message-ID: <24784418.post at talk.nabble.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Have any rhodies sailed to beaver island, makinaw, north channell? Are
these
areas to challengng for a r22? I live in Washington dc but have spent
the
last 25 summer.vacations in charleviox mi and may eventualy trailer my
boat
from the Chesapeake to michigan.
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Michigan-tp24784418p24784418.html
Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 23:43:49 -0400
From: "E.Andler" <edward.andler at verizon.net>
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Cracks in Cement Ballast
To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID: <E35098EB0A524328A18829C47568D65E at owner9d0456dc8>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi All:
I recently found a 1983 R22 for sale that I was told that under the
floor boards the cement ballast had cracks in it.
How and why does this happen? Is it a common occurrence, even in newer
boats?
Should it be sailed as is, or has this become a project boat?
If it's a project boat, what would be involved in repairing it?
Thanks in advance for the info.
Ed
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 23:56:03 -0400
From: "michael meltzer" <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Cracks in Cement Ballast
To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID: <043d01ca13ee$5238f890$f6aae9b0$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
First off, it should be sand mixed ploy(it does look like Cement to the
untrained eye), most likely at that age it also has scrape iron mixed in
that you not seeing. Now that is how it left the factory, if it truly
cement
most likely someone pulled the ballast to fix some hull damage. So the
real
answer is not one can answer. It not the "cracks", the issues will be
the
hull/centerboard truck and why it cracked and or how good was the
repair(if
any was done).
-mjm
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of E.Andler
Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:44 PM
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Cracks in Cement Ballast
Hi All:
I recently found a 1983 R22 for sale that I was told that under the
floor boards the cement ballast had cracks in it.
How and why does this happen? Is it a common occurrence, even in newer
boats?
Should it be sailed as is, or has this become a project boat?
If it's a project boat, what would be involved in repairing it?
Thanks in advance for the info.
Ed
__________________________________________________
To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
http://www.rhodes22.org/list
__________________________________________________
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 00:26:01 -0400
From: keblinskas Keblinskas <keblinskas at msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes22-list] might be a mistake here
To: Boat Rhodes <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID: <BAY110-W107A010CEE320D7074403EC80F0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
David Culp:
Very well said. Thank you.
And Deena, welcome to the club. Wishing you a great season,
Al Keblinskas
> Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 20:18:47 -0500
> From: dculp at hsbtx.com
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes22-list] might be a mistake here
>
> Deena:
>
> You haven't done anything wrong. Some have voiced some ideas recently
to
> try to help keep the boat building business going at GBI. I just did
a few
> posts back in fact. We are making suggestions with good intent, but
very
> little experience or knowledge of the boat business. The latest
edition of
> Sailing Magazine has a column about just how dismal the sailboat
building
> business is these days. Most of the manufacturers say that they "are
going
> back to basics". I don't know what that means exactly. The article
said
> that larger boats have a bigger margin and a lot of builders got into
that
> end of the business. Of course, in this economy the larger boats
aren't
> moving well and the builders are hurting. So are the smaller boats
coming
> back into favor? We'll see. They never lost favor at my house.
>
> In the meantime, GBI is a family owned and operated business with a
business
> plan nearly as old as me. There is no mass advertising and there are
no
> dealerships. Stan owns it and operates it the way he sees fit and
that is
> his privilege. Art apparently offers a product as an add-on that is
> specifically for the Rhodes 22. Apparently, the two gentlemen had an
> agreement at some point that fell apart for whatever reason and that
> discussion has spilled over onto the list. I say again, IMO that is
their
> problem-for themselves and/or their lawyers to work out if need be.
>
> GBI participates in the boat show circuit. They attend the shows that
they
> want to and they market the boat the way they see fit. They probably
don't
> want a bunch of amateurs around mucking things up and I don't blame
them.
> Marketing and selling the boat is their problem, not mine; so
henceforth, no
> more good ideas from me.
>
> My problem and your problem and every other owner's problem is who is
going
> to support us with expertise and parts when the time comes? The
answer
> is probably nobody... but maybe the people on this list. If boat
owners
> could save a manufacturer of a boat they own from going out of
business it
> would have probably happened sometime and we would have heard about
it. The
> good news is that the interest in this boat will not die even if the
factory
> does. There are plenty of owner associations and forums out there
involved
> in boats that are no longer being manufacturered. A boat designed as
well
> as this one and with such a loyal following is going to be supported
by the
> people who love it and enjoy sailing it for many years to come.
>
> I said in an earlier post that I would be willing to do a
royalty/loyalty
> fee when I or my estate sells the boat. I will do that for the
present
> owners of the boats if the factory is still in business when either
the boat
> or I go. I doubt seriously that this is going to be the case, because
I
> have no plans to sell and at 53, I plan on hanging around a few years
> longer. I also plan on doing my major purchases through GBI as long
as they
> are in existence. That helps GBI which helps us all and I know things
will
> work right and fit, like sails for instance. I also said that I would
pay
> dues to an owner's association. All this to help GBI and support my
fellow
> Rhodies. That's all I can do. It's all anyone can do in this
circumstance.
>
> Note: I personally don't think it to be proper for a list member to
solicit
> sales of a product which he has an interest in on this list which
hurts
> GBI's bottom line. Seems a little self-serving when the rest of us
rely
> upon GBI for support and parts at present. On the other hand, if GBI
were
> no longer in existence then that opens the door to all such
solicitations
> and I would be foolish not to welcome anyone willing to provide
products
> which support my investment. This could be a slippery slope. Does
that mean
> that none of us should advise the other list members of good
after-market
> products that the factory also provides regardless of what it is?
Everyone
> must decide on their own. Anyway, I would say to all members who are
> interested in providing "major" after-market products... Thanks for
the
> efforts but probably better done "off list" for the present.
>
> Deena, I am sorry if you have not been made to feel welcome. But, I
am sure
> that I speak for all when I say we are very glad to have you or anyone
else
> with an interest in the Rhodes 22 as part of our group. In the long
run,
> enlarging the group and supporting each other and our interest in the
boat
> is going to be the future of the boat. So don't let a couple of guys
> getting their panties in a wad upset you. That happens around here
from
> time to time, "but it too, shall pass".
>
> David Culp
>
>
> Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 17:07:55 +0000 (UTC)
> From: captainpy at comcast.net
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] might be a mistake here
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Message-ID:
> <
>
1593968390.9656751249232875587.JavaMail.root at sz0165a.westchester.pa.mail
.comcast.net
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Dear All,
>
> I made a mistake interpretting some?of the comments here when I joined
the
> list.? Most of the? subjects were already in progress when I arived.?
I
> thought you guys were all working with Stan coming up with ideas to
help
> him.? My thoughts and comments about promotions and pricing? where
only
> general practices from years ago? as a store manager brought up only
to help
> you all.? I DO NOT DO OR PROMOTE ANY BUSINESS HERE!??? I am not
interested
> in making any money or commssions off any product to take away from
you or
> general boats.? I thought this was a rhodes forum and based on the
comments
> already here thought I had something to contribute.? The dig "like
Deena"?
> and "was like Deena"?inaddition to the?false accusations directed at
me are
> uncalled for.?
>
> Deena
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
Get your vacation photos on your phone!
http://windowsliveformobile.com/en-us/photos/default.aspx?&OCID=0809TL-H
M
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 00:58:54 -0400
From: keblinskas Keblinskas <keblinskas at msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Michigan
To: Boat Rhodes <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID: <BAY110-W28EFDC02DEED9ED9BF3F8FC80F0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Cowie,
Several years ago I sailed with my son on our 32-footer from Traverse
City to
Charlevoix, MackinacIsland, then down to Beaver Island, back to
Charlevoix and
its long lake. I wouldn't do it on our Rhodes 22 because the waves can
build up
to 6 ft. even in the best weather, I suppose due to thelong fetch. I
think
Charlevoix Lake would be quite nice for your R 22, as well as maybe the
two
Traverse City Bays.
Al Keblinskas
> Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 19:20:56 -0700
> From: ccowie at cowieassociates.com
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Michigan
>
>
> Have any rhodies sailed to beaver island, makinaw, north channell?
Are these
> areas to challengng for a r22? I live in Washington dc but have spent
the
> last 25 summer.vacations in charleviox mi and may eventualy trailer my
boat
> from the Chesapeake to michigan.
> --
> View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Michigan-tp24784418p24784418.html
> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
Get your vacation photos on your phone!
http://windowsliveformobile.com/en-us/photos/default.aspx?&OCID=0809TL-H
M
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 04:31:49 -0400
From: John Lock <jlock at relevantarts.com>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] - FYI - might be a mistake here
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID: <E708C574-F920-4EE2-A82F-5780CADD6B12 at relevantarts.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
FYI to everyone - Deena unsubscribed shortly after sending her
message. She will not see your replies and comments unless you send
them directly to her e-mail address.
Cheers!
John Lock
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
Lake Sinclair, GA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Aug 2, 2009, at 20:29, michael meltzer wrote:
> Deena, it had nothing to do with your actions, you are doing fine as
> a new member and I know you were only being helpful, your motivation
> was pure. As you pointed out you walked in the middle and
> unbeknownst got caught in the "middle of a knife fight". As is
> sometime the best policy in a bar room fight "just duck under a
> table and keep your head down" and let it pass over you. You are
> doing a great job and keep on posting.
>
> We are sailor on this list: not always "pure and sweet", sometimes
> do not play nice, look the best and have been known to use boat
> hooks on each other. On the other hand generally when we wake up the
> next day and the massive hangover is gone and have cleaned up the
> blood we still remain friends................
>
> -mjm
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> ] On Behalf Of captainpy at comcast.net
> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 1:08 PM
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] might be a mistake here
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
>
>
> I made a mistake interpretting some of the comments here when I
> joined the list. Most of the subjects were already in progress
> when I arived. I thought you guys were all working with Stan coming
> up with ideas to help him. My thoughts and comments about
> promotions and pricing where only general practices from years ago
> as a store manager brought up only to help you all. I DO NOT DO OR
> PROMOTE ANY BUSINESS HERE! I am not interested in making any
> money or commssions off any product to take away from you or general
> boats. I thought this was a rhodes forum and based on the comments
> already here thought I had something to contribute. The dig "like
> Deena" and "was like Deena" inaddition to the false accusations
> directed at me are uncalled for.
>
> Deena
>
>
>
>
>
> From: rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2009 9:37:47 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 1935, Issue 1
>
> Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to
> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> rhodes22-list-owner at rhodes22.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Rhodes22-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: That didn't work either. (R22RumRunner at aol.com)
> 2. Re: Rummy the great white hunter. (Rick)
> 3. Re: Rummy the great white hunter. (John Lock)
> 4. Re: Rummy the great white hunter. (John Lock)
> 5. Re: Rummy the great white hunter. (Claude Cox)
> 6. Re: ok michael has had enough, was Like Deena, did you say
> Price? (michael meltzer)
> 7. AC panel location? (Ron Singerman)
> 8. Re: Rummy the great white hunter. (R22RumRunner at aol.com)
> 9. Re: Rummy the great white hunter. (R22RumRunner at aol.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 17:16:01 EDT
> From: R22RumRunner at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] That didn't work either.
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Message-ID: <d4a.533db259.37a60a91 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Ron,
> You must be on the corporate sales side of the company.
>
> R
>
>
> In a message dated 8/1/2009 2:50:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> sail at tds.net writes:
>
> Rummy or another good samaritan,
>
> Being computer challanged, could you be so kind as to take me
> through the
> steps to be able to order something with the Rhodes logo? I've been
> trying
> for a half hour with no results. Thanks...
>
> Fair winds,
>>> ron<<
> S/V Serenity
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 9:42 AM
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] That didn't work either.
>
>
>> I will just attache the info to this email:
>>
>>
>> Lands End Corporate Sales
>> JTonjes
>> Tennant: (password)
>> My middle name: William
>> Customer number: 3353184
>> Company Name: Current Technologies
>> Logo Number: 9955367 w
>> Stitches: 6796
>> Contact Person: John Tonjes
>> 1800-338-2000
>> 1800-965-3329 Fax
>> www.landsend.com/corpsales
>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in
>> just 2
>> easy
>> steps!
>> (http://pr.atwola.com/prom
>
oclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditrepo
rt.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
>> =JulystepsfooterNO115)
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>> go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
>
> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just
> 2 easy
> steps!
>
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir
=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx
> ?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
> =JulystepsfooterNO115)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 18:08:46 -0400
> From: Rick <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy the great white hunter.
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Message-ID:
> <52e9a140908011508r7c068a67l68a9f9aa5043fb09 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Rummy,
>
> What's that yellow thing in the background?
>
> Rick
>
> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:18 PM, <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> We have had a serious problem with Foxes in our new neighborhood.
>> They have
>> eaten at least three of our cats in the last year. This morning I
>> got some
>> revenge.
>>
>> Rummy
>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in
>> just 2 easy
>> steps!
>> (
>>
http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=
http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx
>> ?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
>>
=JulystepsfooterNO115<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709
x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc
=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd%0A=JulystepsfooterNO115
>> >
>> )
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>> Name: FoxHunder.jpg
>> Type: image/jpeg
>> Size: 2310680 bytes
>> Desc: not available
>> Url :
>>
http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20090801/21d
ec4a3/attachment.jpg
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>> to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 18:48:55 -0400
> From: John Lock <jlock at relevantarts.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy the great white hunter.
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Message-ID: <3B7981A0-4D1F-49EE-A53B-2D141B357BBC at relevantarts.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> A large planter used for decorative flowers and plantings.
>
> Cheers!
> John Lock
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
> Lake Sinclair, GA
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> On Aug 1, 2009, at 18:08, Rick wrote:
>> Rummy,
>>
>> What's that yellow thing in the background?
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:18 PM, <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We have had a serious problem with Foxes in our new neighborhood.
>>> They have
>>> eaten at least three of our cats in the last year. This morning I
>>> got some
>>> revenge.
>>>
>>> Rummy
>>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in
>>> just 2 easy
>>> steps!
>>> (
>>>
http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=
http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx
>>> ?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
>>>
=JulystepsfooterNO115<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709
x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx
>>> ?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd%0A=JulystepsfooterNO115
>>>>
>>> )
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>>> Name: FoxHunder.jpg
>>> Type: image/jpeg
>>> Size: 2310680 bytes
>>> Desc: not available
>>> Url :
>>>
http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20090801/21d
ec4a3/attachment.jpg
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>> to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 18:50:52 -0400
> From: John Lock <jlock at relevantarts.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy the great white hunter.
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Message-ID: <B3240E1A-59CC-4E9E-ABCF-CF7E57BBF972 at relevantarts.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Ya know... there are some folks in your neighborhood who would say
> that the fox was doing you a favor.
>
> Cheers!
> John Lock
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
> Lake Sinclair, GA
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> On Aug 1, 2009, at 12:18, R22RumRunner at aol.com wrote:
>> We have had a serious problem with Foxes in our new neighborhood.
>> They have
>> eaten at least three of our cats in the last year. This morning I
>> got some
>> revenge.
>>
>> Rummy
>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just
>> 2 easy
>> steps!
>>
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir
=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx
>> ?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
>> =JulystepsfooterNO115)
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>> Name: FoxHunder.jpg
>> Type: image/jpeg
>> Size: 2310680 bytes
>> Desc: not available
>> Url :
http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20090801/21d
ec4a3/attachment.jpg
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 22:29:30 -0400
> From: "Claude Cox" <ccc974 at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy the great white hunter.
> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Message-ID: <001801ca1319$145e3970$0202a8c0 at DBMCXV81>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> you going to mount the head?
> claude
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 12:18 PM
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy the great white hunter.
>
>
>> We have had a serious problem with Foxes in our new neighborhood.
>> They
>> have
>> eaten at least three of our cats in the last year. This morning I
>> got some
>> revenge.
>>
>> Rummy
>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in
>> just 2
>> easy
>> steps!
>>
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir
=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx
>> ?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
>> =JulystepsfooterNO115)
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>> Name: FoxHunder.jpg
>> Type: image/jpeg
>> Size: 2310680 bytes
>> Desc: not available
>> Url :
>>
http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20090801/21d
ec4a3/attachment.jpg
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>> to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 01:05:36 -0400
> From: "michael meltzer" <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] ok michael has had enough, was Like
> Deena, did you say Price?
> To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Message-ID: <037301ca132e$def65770$9ce30650$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Art it is time to simply stop. Stop Now.
>
> I never have had to get on someone's case about using this list for
> commercial uses, until his time.
>
> * you notice that stan does NOT soloatied on this list. And show
> good taste about it when he does post
> * you notice that there is no spam on the list, the filter kill
> about 40 commercial posts a day, a good chuck from "other boat Things"
> * Ric has been moving Graphics for years but you never know it
> unless you ask him.
> * people sell boat have been doing for years, but it "one post".
> * when Bill and Pamela opened their canvas shop they never soloatied
> on the list.
>
> All the above examples have shown good taste about it, Art you are
> way over the line. Stop any posts about your commercial venture.
> Please answer any normal list traffic(including specialized
> questions about canvas) but unless it a direct question "Art can you
> make this for me", I real do not what to hear about boat canvas work
> you are doing or looking like you are "back handing" the question
> that you can generate work. (that includes privately taking people
> email address and pumping them, they MUST approach you first)
>
> Sorry to be so direct, but you simply do not get the scuttle
> message. Open a loft at your local marine, pay for show space, place
> fliers all over the place, make a "YouTube" with a vial message,
> think outside the box all you what. But unless you want to start
> paying me and John (10-20% of the gross for marketing sounds right.
> You have no god given right to market here. If you done right by
> people let them recommend you. But not you pushing it!!!!!!!!
>
> On a slightly different subject, Like Others have noted, Stan has
> declined your help and I cannot think other than you like insulting
> him by your actions or I go back you my original premious that "you
> simple do not get it and this is a charter flaw" (which is supported
> by people who meet you), Sorry that you have this problem. If it
> make you feel any better spelling has been my lifelong problem.
>
>
> -mjm
>
> -PS I do not need any reply or any "justification" just simple stop
> it and control your actions, You have been good with boating advice
> and helpful but by the same token you also know how I will play it
> if pushed any farther.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> ] On Behalf Of Arthur H. Czerwonky
> Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 3:04 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Like Deena, did you say Price?
>
> Deena,
>
> Please help me understand. Who has lowered what price on what?
>
> If you refer to some lower price I can sell for, I have to establish
> costing on what is possible. I never established the Boomroom at
> $1,500 based, for example, on Stan's previous price of ~$2,000. My
> gosh, that was my mission from our skippers, they were screaming
> about the cost, and I responded with better solutions over a three
> month period in the Winter of '06. Dave Bradley can relate the
> endless emails we exchanged to get it just like the fleet wanted
> it! Back then I actually charged Dave 1,100, not the current price,
> and additionally travelled to Conn to help install it, mileage costs
> only. Not a shabby commitment, not at all. I recall that even Stan
> was happy then. I will always meet or exceed your expectations, to
> quote Steven Covey.
>
> I think it unfair to our skippers if I were to set any product cost
> based on $100 or $200 or $500 below some competitor offering. I
> just will not do it! It is mandatory that my quality be the best
> available, and that will be the only and certain result, not just
> some fuzzy target. Among my fleetmates there is no doubt that I
> have committed to quality canvas products.
>
> Now, back to the bimini project. Call me on the phone at any point,
> 404 295-7777.
>
> Have a nice week. BTW, did your husband ever cross paths with "the
> Brute" when he was on active duty?
>
> R,
>
> Art
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: captainpy at comcast.net
>> Sent: Aug 1, 2009 7:19 AM
>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Promos
>>
>>
>>
>> Art,
>>
>> I like the idea of the pens the best. They wouldn't be as
>> expensive to obtain, and are to maintain a supply and restock as
>> needed. At the same time it wouldn't give the appearance of a
>> diminished product. Having been a retail store manager years ago I
>> am a firm believer in not reducing the price of a high quality
>> product. People tended then not to purchase it and would many
>> times wait until they thought it might go on sale. They also felt
>> if you lowered the price maybe it wasn't so great after all. I
>> just got my assessment from our association. They sent everyone a
>> letter informing us they were raising our yearly fee 5% due to the
>> economy. We also got a price hike with our utilities. My husband
>> did not get a 5% raise to keep up with the pace. Alot of people
>> just are cutting back. My Rhodes is kept at the quantico marina.
>> We don't see very many people going out on their motor boats this
>> year.
>>
>>
>>
>> Deena
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:41:46 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
>> Subject: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 1933, Issue 4
>>
>> Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to
>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> rhodes22-list-owner at rhodes22.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Rhodes22-list digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Centerboard and Sail Trim and Leeway (Leland)
>> 2. Re: Rhodes Promotions (R22RumRunner at aol.com)
>> 3. Re: Centerboard and Sail Trim and Leeway (Hank)
>> 4. Re: Rhodes Crew Gear (BenCittadino)
>>
>>
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:51:13 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: Leland <LKUHN at cnmc.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Centerboard and Sail Trim and Leeway
>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>> Message-ID: <24764138.post at talk.nabble.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>>
>>
>> David,
>>
>> Everything I've read indicates that you are right. Many of the
>> times that
>> I've measured the effects of the centerboard I've noticed more than
>> a ten
>> degree improvement into the wind. However, every time I put the
>> board down
>> I slow down. Every time I raise the board I speed up.
>>
>> Hopefully this picture will come through:
>>
>>
>> http://www.nabble.com/file/p24764138/Sail%2BSpeed.ppt Sail+Speed.ppt
>>
>> Let's assume you're sailing from point A to B with the board up.
>> Doesn't
>> matter how much you drift because you're still going from point A
>> to B. If
>> you put the board down you can sail more into the wind and you are
>> able to
>> sail from point A to C. To get to point B you would then need to
>> sail from
>> point C to A. Even if you weren't sailing slower with the board
>> down,
>> wouldn't it take you longer to go from point A to C to B than sailing
>> directly from point A to B?
>>
>> Am I missing something?
>>
>> Unless I want to go more into the wind, it still seems like the
>> best reason
>> to put the board down is to knock the barnacles off.
>>
>> Lee
>>
>>
>> Yesterday I got the chance to sail in 5-10 kt wind and relatively
>> flat
>> water. I set the boat up on a beam reach (apparent wind 90
>> degreees). The
>> course was was 060 M by my steering compass. We were able to do
>> about
>> .5 - 4 kts SOG by the GPS.
>>
>> With the board down our COG (Course over ground) was 055-057 M
>> With the board up out COG was 045-048 M
>>
>> Although my steering compass is not compensated and thus has unknown
>> deviation, since it was held steady at 060 the deviation has no
>> importance
>> here. Lowering the board reduced leeway by about 10 degrees.
>> Lowering the
>> board had no observed effect on SOG although wind variation could
>> have
>> hidden a small effect. Based on these results I see no reason to
>> sail with
>> the board up unless in very thin water and one very good reason to
>> sail with
>> it down.
>>
>> David Walker
>> --
>> View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Partial-Mainsail-tp24647946p24764138.html
>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:03:21 EDT
>> From: R22RumRunner at aol.com
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes Promotions
>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>> Message-ID: <c60.4aa50792.37a4e049 at aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>
>> Michael,
>>
>>
>> Yes, they still have the logo. I have the information on a different
>> computer. I will send it to you later.
>>
>> Rummy
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 7/30/2009 9:22:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> mjm at michaelmeltzer.com writes:
>>
>> Is the rhodes22 logo still on file with lands end? Rummy you
>> remember or
>> one else?
>>
>> -mjm
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Arthur H.
>> Czerwonky
>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:23 PM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes Promotions
>>
>> Deena,
>>
>> Do you think an inscribed ball point, one worth keeping and using,
>> would
>> make sense? We just need to 'blue sky' this show...
>>
>> I stitched a miniature sail bag once, it was made of actual
>> sailcloth and
>> was embroidered. Really quality you wouldn't pitch in file 13.
>> Maybe an
>> embossed key chain with a small fiberglass piece (of hull) as a
>> hanger.
>> There must be soms scrap around the GB facility. " You have a
>> small part of
>> the boat, we can deliver the rest in a few months." Let's stretch
>> our
>> imagination over Stan (SOS)!
>>
>> Art
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: captainpy at comcast.net
>>> Sent: Jul 29, 2009 4:56 PM
>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes Promotions
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Stan!!!!!!!!
>>>
>>> How about a Rhodes 22 T-shirt That says "Ask me about my
>>> Rhodes" )On one
>> side a picture and on the other GB's web address?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Deena AKA Captain Py
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:00:39 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada
>>> Eastern
>>> Subject: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 1931, Issue 1
>>>
>>> Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to
>>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> rhodes22-list-owner at rhodes22.org
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of Rhodes22-list digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. Re: Stuff that works - pest control solutions (Jim Connolly)
>>> 2. Re: Fw: general boat's dilema (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
>>> 3. Re: general boat's complaint (continued) (stan)
>>> 4. Re: general boat's complaint (continued) (stan)
>>> 5. Re: general boat's complaint /in all fairness (Lou Rosenberg)
>>> 6. Re: general boat's complaint /in all fairness
>>> (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
>>> 7. Re: general boat's complaint /in all fairness (Lowe, Rob)
>>> 8. Yellowstone Lake, Jackson Lake Sailing (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
>>>
>>>
>>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:01:17 -0400
>>> From: "Jim Connolly" <jbconnolly at comcast.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Stuff that works - pest control
>>> solutions
>>> To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Message-ID: <200907290201.n6T21ZTY022293 at raeid23.raenet.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> I had hornets and wasps in the coaming right before launch, so I
>>> needed a
>>> fast solution.
>>>
>>> I found a non-toxic wasp killer spray that is based on mint oil
>>> ("poison
>>> free" from Victor Pest Control). It took a whole can, but seemed
>>> to
>> work.
>>> The smell repelled or confused returning wasps, and those that
>>> were home
>>> when I sprayed (at least some of them) died.
>>>
>>> Jim Connolly
>>> s/v Inisheer
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of John Lock
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 2:29 PM
>>> To: Rhodes 22
>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Stuff that works - pest control solutions
>>>
>>> Last year I had a couple of pest problems that many people
>>> responded too
>>> with helpful suggestions. Here's what my results were -
>>>
>>> 1) Problem - spider webs in the rigging (especially masthead fly)
>> Solution -
>>> WD40. I had the mast down early this spring to fix several things.
>> Before
>>> raising again, I sprayed WD40 liberally on the masthead, Windex,
>>> VHF
>>> antenna, and diamond stays. So far (5 months
>>> later) not a single web! Still get them down lower where I
>>> didn't spray,
>> so
>>> we know the spiders are still there. But they don't want to (or
>>> can't)
>>> start webs on the WD40 treated portion.
>>>
>>> 2) Problem - paper wasps building nests under the cockpit coaming
>> Solution -
>>> clothes drier sheets. Middle of last summer I stapled a bunch of
>>> drier
>>> sheets into the wood backing up under the coaming on both sides.
>>> No wasp
>>> nests have appeared in almost a year now. I see some more wasp
>>> activity
>>> now, so I suspect it's time to renew the sheets. But that's a
>>> cheap and
>>> effective control.
>>>
>>> Now if only I could figure out what to do about the ants coming
>>> aboard
>> from
>>> shore....
>>>
>>> Cheers!
>>> John Lock
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
>>> Lake Sinclair, GA
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>> go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:31:43 -0400 (EDT)
>>> From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Fw: general boat's dilema
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Message-ID:
>>>
>>
<16092871.1248874303875.JavaMail.root at elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.ne
t
>> >
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>> John,
>>>
>>> Welcome aboard the list and your involvement. This fleet is
>>> strong for
>> the mix of its skippers as well an exceptional boat. If you can
>> come to the
>> show you'll have a rather rare opportunity to meet many of them as
>> we have
>> a get-together in a nearby restaurant, I can't remember what day
>> that will
>> be this year - maybe we should take a poll. C'mon down and
>> enjoy! You
>> will also see one of the most exceptional sailboat displays in the
>> country.
>> Lee may have a handle on what is cooking locally, or Mary Lou and
>> Fred may
>> know. We have alot of skippers in the North Chesapeake environs,
>> let's
>> show the flag. BTW, is there an R22 burgee?
>>>
>>> Another option we could use in helping GB is to followup on
>>> inquiries on
>> the Rhodes from shows, calls, or curious prospects we may meet as
>> our
>> marinas. If local owners are informed about such prospects from
>> Stan or other
>> owners, they could be invited out on a sail or into a conversation
>> about our
>> boat, maybe about their boat and/or sailing interests. We get
>> random
>> requests from wannabes, maybe a more proactive initiative on our
>> part, done
>> tastefully, would develop into prospects for Stan. He can suggest
>> names,
>> approach, interests selectively to get the ball/tide rolling. A
>> passive
>> approach will not enhance sales prospects for GB.
>>>
>>> I share your past interest in the Mariner (#1607) and the O'Day
>>> boats
>> (222). I haven't seen much racing interest in our skippers, but
>> welcome
>> correction if it is due. Involvement in the racing is alot of
>> fun. Stan
>> suggested a strictly racing R22 a few years ago, maybe to be
>> revived. Are you
>> IMF (probably) or Conventional? What size Genny? Have you raced
>> out of
>> Brant Beach, or is it mostly a cruising venue? Which motor have
>> you preferred?
>>
>>>
>>> We welcome your involvement, John, and look forward to your reply.
>>>
>>> Art
>>> s/v Mary Jane
>>> Hartwell and St Pete
>>>
>>>
>>> --Original Message-----
>>>> From: John <johnrowland at optonline.net>
>>>> Sent: Jul 28, 2009 9:50 PM
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Fw: general boat's dilema
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "John" <johnrowland at optonline.net>
>>>> To: <rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:01 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's dilema
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I have submitted one or two messages to the list, but would
>>>>> like to get
>>>>> more involved. I purchased a 1989 Rhodes22 about 1 year ago.
>>>>> I have
>> raced
>>>>> Mariners years ago, owned a few O'Days, and never found a boat
>>>>> that I
>> enjoy
>>>>> more than this one. Heaven forbid General Boats has problems.
>>>>> There
>> is no
>>>>> owner loyalty, or construction quality (or--even more
>> important--customer
>>>>> service) that compares with this company. While I probably
>>>>> cannot
>> attend
>>>>> the Annapolis Show, I need to know what I (and other loyal
>>>>> owners) can
>> do
>>>>> to keep this company strong.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been amazed at the discussions on this list (with the
>>>>> exception
>> of
>>>>> the political issues regarding the last election). My
>>>>> goodness, where
>>>>> else can I learn about how to sail more effectively and fix
>>>>> whatever
>>>>> problems I have on the boat. I do not call a customer service
>>>>> number
>> that
>>>>> keeps me on hold for hours--I talk to the owner of the company!!
>>>>>
>>>>> I will not get involved in discussions regarding royalties, but
>>>>> do
>> think
>>>>> that each of us owes Stan some support in keeping this boat alive.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am actually in a slip next to a Hunter 40, and I am happier
>>>>> with
>> this
>>>>> boat.
>>>>>
>>>>> I read a lot of e-mails from individuals who offer suggestions
>>>>> about
>> other
>>>>> members issues and questions. What better support canone get
>>>>> than
>> this?
>>>>>
>>>>> I keep the boat at a slip at the Brant Beach Yacht Club in Brant
>> Beach,
>>>>> New Jersey and look forward to meeting other owners in the area.
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Rick" <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:24 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's dilema
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> $1.97
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Arthur H. Czerwonky <
>>>>>> czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rick,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good idea, buddy! Somehow to add a unique personal touch. I
>>>>>>> would
>> add,
>>>>>>> however, that Mary Lou really does not need to dance on table
>>>>>>> tops
>> at
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Annapolis show. Fred, Pleassse!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with the blazers, but, as we are in shoestring mode,
>>>>>>> what
>> about
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> Hanes T-shirt, and of course, hospitality hot dogs with lots
>>>>>>> of
>> mustard
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> relish. Seriously, I embroidered some nice looking T-shirts
>>>>>>> for the
>> '07
>>>>>>> show, different color each day, some were 'Name, and
>>>>>>> rhodes22.com',
>> and
>>>>>>> some were 'name, boomroom, rhodes22.com', each comma'd section
>>>>>>> above
>> the
>>>>>>> other. They were noticed by our visitors, never a comment or
>> compliment
>>>>>>> otherwise. You might have to get used to it... rhoadies are
>>>>>>> tough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let's gel some more ideas for Stan to use. At least it
>>>>>>> engages the
>>>>>>> imagination of the smart cookies in our magnificent Rhodes
>>>>>>> fleet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No commissions or royalty this time either, guys. What do you
>> charge,
>>>>>>> Rick?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Art
>>>>>>> s/v Mary Jane
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Rick <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Jul 28, 2009 2:00 PM
>>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's dilema
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Art,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Using owners at shows sounds like a good idea. Carver has
>>>>>>>> success
>> with
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> at the Cleveland show, dressing everyone up the same way in
>>>>>>>> blue
>>>>>>>> blazers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I doubt any mass media advertising would have payback.
>>>>>>>> Since all
>> the
>>>>>>> major
>>>>>>>> sailing magazines have been pushing for so long the Catalina
>>>>>>>> wave
>> that
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> start at 22 feet and buy up from there, a GBI ad would be
>>>>>>>> swamped.
>>>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>>> direct mail to long-time owners on state and Coast Guard
>>>>>>>> sailboat
>>>>>>>> registration lists, pushing the R22 as a quality downsize
>>>>>>>> option?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rick
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Arthur H. Czerwonky <
>>>>>>>> czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> John, Rob,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You may recall that Stan proposed a stripped down version,
>>>>>>>>> call
>> it a
>>>>>>> racing
>>>>>>>>> model, on the list a few years ago, and although I expressed
>> interest
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> this new boat option to him, maybe others too, no further
>> information
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> provided to my knowledge. Back at that time Stan expressed
>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>> ability
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> produce, and now maybe he will further reconsider and tell us
>> more
>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>> what he had in mind. I still am interested, speaking for
>>>>>>>>> myself
>> as a
>>>>>>>>> potential buyer. I will watch for any response. Did
>>>>>>>>> anyone get
>>>>>>> detailed
>>>>>>>>> information on this boat?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have suggested the value of baseline ad exposure. If
>>>>>>>>> nothing
>> else,
>>>>>>>>> targeted reinforcement to the boat show displays that are so
>>>>>>>>> important.
>>>>>>>>> Maybe followup visits by experienced skippers. I have been
>>>>>>>>> told
>> by
>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> our newer skippers that my 'hot dog hospitality' aboard
>>>>>>>>> Mary Jane
>> at
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> '07
>>>>>>>>> show tipped the sale toward his boat purchase with him and
>>>>>>>>> his
>> wife.
>>>>>>> BTW,
>>>>>>>>> no commission provided or requested. The presence of
>>>>>>>>> skippers at
>> the
>>>>>>> show
>>>>>>>>> is valuable - a third party evaluation of their own boat, and
>> with
>>>>>>>>> 'no
>>>>>>> axe
>>>>>>>>> to grind'. Consider it for yourself in support of Stan, as
>>>>>>>>> I did
>>
>>>>>>>>> twice.
>>>>>>>>> You would have one very positive impression of how GB and a
>> huge
>>>>>>>>> number
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> other boat makers reach their customers. Our skippers who
>>>>>>>>> are so
>>>>>>> willing to
>>>>>>>>> give demos, whether at shows or not, are such valuable
>> ambassadors
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> GB.
>>>>>>>>> Having done it a number of times, it is really fun as well as
>> being
>>>>>>>>> productive. Try it, you'll like it! Let's be specific - Can
>> some of
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> skipper demos at Annapoli!
>>>>>>>>> s or St Pete or elsewhere?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cutting to the chase, who has some real connections to
>>>>>>>>> options
>> and
>>>>>>> selling
>>>>>>>>> /advertising connections that could help get Stan and GB out
>>>>>>>>> of
>> this
>>>>>>> 'black
>>>>>>>>> hole' that the company appears to be in? It could be just
>>>>>>>>> a few
>>>>>>> positive
>>>>>>>>> levers to pull that would enable better results, even in our
>> current
>>>>>>> puuuny
>>>>>>>>> economy. Who is willing to pen letters of endorsement to
>>>>>>> prospects/suspects
>>>>>>>>> that could tip the scales, one by one. Time to get the
>>>>>>>>> horses
>> out
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> barn, guys.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Like Mark Twain or someone else once said, let's get the P
>>>>>>>>> in our
>>>>>>>>> Pot!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Art
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: John Shulick <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Jul 28, 2009 11:02 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint
>> (continued)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Rob,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yep that pretty much covers it. Now what would the price
>>>>>>>>>> point
>> be
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> boat? I have the origional literature that came with my 71
>>>>>>>>>> and
>> you
>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>> see that show package special price!!!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> John S.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Rob Lowe wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Drop the IMF, ditch the head, the water tank, the fancy
>>>>>>>>>>> motor
>>>>>>>>>>> lift,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> re-model the interior? Now you have my 1976 boat! I do
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> battery
>>>>>>>>>>> though. - rob
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>> Shulick
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:52 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint
>> (continued)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Rick,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I see your point clearly on the subject but I also see
>>>>>>>>>>> Davids
>> idea
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> options to increase sales. How about dropping the IMF, ditch
>> the
>>>>>>> head,
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> on board water tank, the batteries, the fancy motor lift,
>> re-model
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> interior and selling it as a "sport model" My wife and I
>>>>>>>>>>> live
>> on
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> boat
>>>>>>>>>>> almost every weekend and find a porta potty and crank lights
>>>>>>> sufficient.
>>>>>>>>>>> Being a camper before a sailor I have found the R22 to be a
>> first
>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>>>>>> floating campground without the pain of hiking in. I also
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>> had
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> perverse pleasure one weekend of sailing rings around a
>> macgregor
>>>>>>>>>>> 26
>>>>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>>>>> it like a no wake buoy as the kids pleaded at their
>>>>>>>>>>> father to
>> make
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> mac
>>>>>>>>>>> go faster. Racer/Cruiser is more fun than Cruiser/Racer.
>>>>>>>>>>> Even
>> if
>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> racing its fun to be faster.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Respectfully submitted,
>>>>>>>>>>> John Shulick
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Rick-139 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I hate to be the wet blanket again. But racing
>>>>>>>>>>>> sailboats is
>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> whole
>>>>>>>>>>>> 'nother
>>>>>>>>>>>> market. The key to convincing a customer to buy a
>>>>>>>>>>>> sailboat
>> for
>>>>>>> racing
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> convince him or her that they will have lots of other
>> sailboats
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> race
>>>>>>>>>>>> against.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In the one design game, it involves high volume production
>> and a
>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution system that can execute geographically
>> concentrated
>>>>>>> sales
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> support. J Boats has been successful doing that in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Great
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lakes
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> J 22 and other longer models. Plus, J Boats has a
>>>>>>>>>>>> respectable
>>
>>>>>>> history
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining one design integrity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, there's always PHRF racing. But how many 20
>>>>>>>>>>>> - 25
>> foot
>>>>>>>>>>> cruising
>>>>>>>>>>>> sailboat owners are left with an interest in racing?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Unlike 30 years ago, most people today who buy cruising or
>> day
>>>>>>> sailing
>>>>>>>>>>>> boats
>>>>>>>>>>>> in the low 20's length are first timers. From there, they
>> either
>>>>>>> drop
>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>> or they move to larger boats more popular for cruising,
>> racing or
>>>>>>>>>>> both.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Catalina and Hunter have turned the market into that by
>> making
>>>>>>>>>>>> cheap
>>>>>>>>>>>> starter
>>>>>>>>>>>> boats people can easily abandon for yachts. Stan's main
>> problem
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>> has a product that goes against the prevailing mindset
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>> has
>>>>>>>>>>> evolved
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> his market.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Did you read the article "The Little Boat that Could" in
>> August
>>>>>>> issue
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sailing? The title itself is a reflection of that
>>>>>>>>>>>> mindset.
>> And
>>>>>>>>>>> despite
>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>> kinds of compliments about the R22, the piece ends with:
>> "More
>>>>>>>>>>> important,
>>>>>>>>>>>> where does one get a new tiller for a Rhodes 22?" That's
>> some
>>>>>>> insult
>>>>>>>>>>> to a
>>>>>>>>>>>> builder who has admirably supported his product for
>>>>>>>>>>>> decades.
>> But
>>>>>>>>>>> again,
>>>>>>>>>>>> that's part of the same mindset.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Rick
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:04 PM, David Culp
<dculp at hsbtx.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rick:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I am saying is that this boat is unique and I can't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> go
>> down
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> local boatyard and get some of the major parts that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>>>>> need.
>>>>>>>>>>> Also,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't send an email or make a phone call to the guy who
>> built
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> boat at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> most places and expect a response. That's probably worth
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the operation rolling as long as Stan does his part. I
>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ought to pay royalty/loyalty if you don't get anything
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>> it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> group
>>>>>>>>>>>>> feels we are getting something worth paying for, then I'm
>> just
>>>>>>>>>>> suggesting
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> small stipend annually to Stan which if everyone
>> participates
>>>>>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> better solution then a percentage up front facing new
>> owners for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> loyalty/royalty. The 5% on the seller side will figure
>>>>>>>>>>>>> into
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> price
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it gets the new owner out of any obligation to pay a
>>>>>>> royalty/loyalty
>>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>>>> front for two years. Then, continued association
>>>>>>>>>>>>> membership
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>> require
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the annual dues.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Imagine if you bought a Ford or Chevy used and then were
>> asked
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> send a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5%
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fee to the factory. Nobody would... but this is not a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ford
>> or
>>>>>>> Chevy.
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure some type of ongoing support is probably
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasonable
>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>> good owner support and parts availability. For
>>>>>>>>>>>>> example, if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>> comes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> along and hits my rudder in the slip and I need a new
>>>>>>>>>>>>> one,
>> there
>>>>>>>>>>> ought to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a spare waiting at the factory to ship out. If someone
>> blows a
>>>>>>> sail
>>>>>>>>>>>>> out,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there should be one ready to ship and the right color
>>>>>>>>>>>>> too.
>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is the case at GBI because spare parts mean overhead
>> and I
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much overhead Stan is willing to carry. Maybe parts
>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> non-members
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ought to carry a premium that members don't have to pay-
>>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>>>>> added
>>>>>>>>>>>>> incentive to be one of the family.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hear what you are saying about the market. Long term,
>> owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to be the ones to keep GBI afloat. You have got to
>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>>>> customers
>>>>>>>>>>>>> through the door. There have been a lot of good
>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggestions
>>>>>>>>>>>>> given
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of experienced people on the list. My experiences with
>> family
>>>>>>>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>>>>>>>> businesses are that we are very happy to take your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> money but
>> you
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>> your advice to yourself. However, Stan seems open to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>> suggestions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stan has an excellent product, more people need to know
>> about it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>> has mentioned. A new boat is becoming cost prohibitive
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> most,
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> recycling is a good second market but I think you need a
>> "less
>>>>>>>>>>> frills"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> model
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to get younger couples through the doors. You would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to
>> be
>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> build it with the same quality, using the same molds at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>>>>>>>> price
>>>>>>>>>>>>> point and I don't know if that is possible. I thought
>>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe
>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> stripped
>>>>>>>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>>>>>>>> racing version might be a solution. Racers don't need
>>>>>>>>>>>>> much
>> down
>>>>>>>>>>> below
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will pay for quality above. The Rhodes is faster then a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catalina
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with and that would appeal to a lot of people.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 17:28:36 -0400
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Rick <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (continued)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<52e9a140907261428v6feebf53l4e923711b987ec30 at mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I was considering buying my R22, the PO said, "I can
>> give
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> home
>>>>>>>>>>>>> phone number of the guy who makes the boat and he will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> talk
>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time." Of course, that tilted me to buy his boat and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> subsequently
>>>>>>>>>>> buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>>> things from Stan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you suggesting Stan discontinues this attractive
>> offering in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shrunken marketplace for pocket cruiser sailboats? I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn customers toward high volume boats where technical
>>>>>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> spare parts are readily available.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 4:49 PM, David Culp
>> <dculp at hsbtx.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stan:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for your insight into the business. I dare
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say
>> that
>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sailboat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> owners don't get the inside track on happenings at the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> factory;
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> factory is even still in business that is.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I want to comment on the loyalty/royalty program
>> concerning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> Rhodes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience in boat ownership over the years is that a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boat
>>>>>>>>>>>>> purchaser
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always spends the maximum funds set aside for the
>> purchase.
>>>>>>> Either
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purchase price and the taxes consume the entire amount
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>> owner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> takes any funds left and applies them to things the boat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs.
>>>>>>>>>>> And we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know that used boats need something all the time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a bit of a sticky wicket let's say, to request from
>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>> owner 5
>>>>>>>>>>>>> %
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the purchase price be paid to GBI when they have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spent
>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then they intended to begin with. The Rhodes 22 is the
>> top of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> scale
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 22' boats and used prices are not cheap. We see it all
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list... Folks are interested in the Rhodes but they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> purchase
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it on a "Catalina" budget; so they "lurk" on the list
>> either
>>>>>>> saving
>>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cash or hoping to see a cheap boat come up for sale
>> whereby
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>> promptly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list and complete the transaction.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You will remember in my case, that I sent GBI a check
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>> $
>>>>>>> 200.00
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cover
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the promotional materials you sent me-but that was not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5%
>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> price
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paid. In the meantime, I have enjoyed the technical
>> support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> received as a member of the list from the owners and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> yourself.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worth something, even though I didn't realize it in the
>>>>>>> beginning.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boat and this list are pretty unique to the boating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I propose and this will make some people on this list
>> unhappy,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unhappy.... An Owner's association with an annual fee.
>> For
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> annual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fee,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have got to provide something however. Which is
>> another
>>>>>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> royalty fee upfront; people always need to feel that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something for their money. In this case, for the annual
>>>>>>>>>>> association
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fee:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Admission to the list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Technical support either from members or the factory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Availability and a price list of parts, sails, etc. that
>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kept
>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> date
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so I can purchase it from you if I need something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Except for the parts and prices, this is pretty much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> doing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already. Maybe you could come up with some member
>> specials on
>>>>>>>>>>> pricing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time to time for sails or parts or write an occasional
>> article
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> members would get. I don't want to burden you with a
>> bunch of
>>>>>>>>>>> extra
>>>>>>>>>>>>> work,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but there needs to be something unique about membership.
>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>> way,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new owner would feel they are getting something and it
>> would
>>>>>>>>>>> generate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revenue for you over the longer term. As part of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> membership,
>>>>>>>>>>> if we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> agree to give you 5% of the selling price when we sell,
>> then I
>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem with it; especially if the list helps my estate
>> sell
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> boat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even stipulate it in my will. I figure if I owe a
>> "loyalty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fee",
>>>>>>>>>>> it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably to the list members who have taken their time
>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> helpful
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over the years. If paying you a "royalty" fee helps
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>> GBI
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> business
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then that helps them and you. As a seller, if I pay 5%
>> then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> gets my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> buyer on the list free for two years. Then he/she can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> responsible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing and start paying their own royalty/loyalty dues.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The other situation which started the discussion in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beginning
>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with after-market products or other parts unique to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rhodes.
>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> member
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has an after-market item to sell to the list which is
>> unique
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rhodes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and/or would normally be available from GBI for sale,
>> then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he/she
>>>>>>>>>>> goes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through you. They can advertise it and discuss it;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I
>> buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after you have added your mark up or it cannot be
>> advertised
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> member's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list by another member or by a third party. Simple as
>> that.
>>>>>>> They
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supplier of General Boats and you are the distributor to
>> me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obviously,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list membership information is kept proprietary to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> direct
>>>>>>>>>>>>> marketing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by a third party. If a member tries to go behind your
>> back...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> care of that. If something comes up for sale on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open-market
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unique to the Rhodes 22 and there are legal issues, then
>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion for lawyers and not for this forum.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right now MJM is administering the list. I think he or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whomever
>>>>>>>>>>> takes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those duties gets their membership free.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope you will take these suggestions under advisement
>> and if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> is of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interest, let us know what you think the annual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> membership
>> fee
>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For everyone else, let the flaming begin.... But just
>> keep in
>>>>>>> mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purpose is here. Trying to come up with something
>> palatable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>>>>>> GBI
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and us in the long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PS:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Other thoughts: The Rhodes 22 website is "technically"
>> one of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have ever seen as far as the boat information goes.
>> However,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> polish to be a more effective marketing tool. More
>> timely
>>>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more emphasis on the recycle program and availability of
>> used
>>>>>>> boats
>>>>>>>>>>>>> comes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mind since new boat sales are down. Also, have you ever
>>>>>>> considered
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "entry level" boat without all the bells and whistles
>> which
>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purchase at a bit lower price? You've talked about a
>> racer
>>>>>>> before.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you come up with something without having to have new
>>>>>>>>>>> molds-marketed as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Sport" Rhodes 22? Lower the interior weight, put a
>> standard
>>>>>>> mast
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> racing sails on it and a spinaker. Catalina has a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "sport
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> model"
>>>>>>>>>>> and it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty well I think. Just some ideas I have batted
>> around. dc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 13:46:52 -0400
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint
>> (continued)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
<rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message-ID: <038FA83D95464CCFB609CA722206B2D8 at rhodes>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rose and I want to thank you all for indulging GB in the
>> use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> forum
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on an issue that is so basic to GB.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We want to thank those that take issue with our position
>> but
>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evenhanded. (If academically interested, we can provide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exhibits
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witnesses that prove the accuracy of our facts.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are empathetic with those who chafe at this sort of
>> thing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> remain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silent - in our younger days we probably would have done
>> the
>>>>>>> same.
>>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not until 50 that we adopted our tribe's slogan of
>> "never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> again"
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> took
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anyone who wronged us: A policeman. A lawyer. a
>> station
>>>>>>> wagon
>>>>>>>>>>>>> full
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nuns (just kidding about the station wagon), a giant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corporation
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> docketing at the US Supreme Court. We prevailed in all
>> these
>>>>>>> pro
>>>>>>>>>>> se
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actions simply because we do not complain unless the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> facts
>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> logic
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solidly on our side - but we digress.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, in particular, we want to thank those who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> logical
>>>>>>>>>>>>> side
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of our position and offered suggestions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Re the issue of the Loyalty/Royalty program: Its
>> reasoning
>>>>>>> seems
>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct that it is hard to comprehend dissent. Those
>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>>> crazy
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such radical thinking have to sit in this chair for just
>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> day.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interestingly, dissenters enjoy products from many
>> segments of
>>>>>>>>>>> industry
>>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have already worked out such support programs, yet these
>>>>>>> dissenters
>>>>>>>>>>>>> seem
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be drawing their own grandfather clause line as to which
>>>>>>> industries
>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not be entitled to residuals on their efforts. Those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>> this
>>>>>>>>>>> group
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but to request and we will expand on the good sense of
>> this
>>>>>>>>>>> program.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has been emotionally gratifying seeing former members of
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You
>>>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crazy" society, when, becoming members of the "List"
>> family,
>>>>>>> seeing
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> light and converting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Re the issue of the 50 years creating a unique product
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> take bites of its parts for their unilateral gain, if not
>>>>>>> resolved,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come home to bite us all. ( When I walked out of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hallowed
>>>>>>>>>>> halls
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ole
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PU I vowed not to go into business because I could not
>> stand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> ethics
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saw, and assumed, had to go with that territory. But it
>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pre-ordained;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ended up spending most of my life a driving capitalist.
>> And
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blast, for me and my partner of 60 years - because we
>> made the
>>>>>>>>>>> making
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money our secondary goal. (The effects of that kind of
>>>>>>> religious
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fervor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has surprisingly turned out to be rough on our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opponents.)
>>>>>>> There
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ways
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we can go to stop the taking of free bites of the
>> profitable
>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>>>>>> side
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GB's business::
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When we sold Venture Sailboats (Macgregor), dealers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could
>> buy
>>>>>>> sails
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elsewhere and make an additional profit on Roger's
>> creation at
>>>>>>>>>>> Roger's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expense. Roger, who graduated at the top of his class at
>>>>>>> Stamford,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raised the price of his boat and included sails. Being
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tough
>>>>>>>>>>>>> business
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> man he is, he did it without notice and dealers had to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>> sail
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inventories they bought elsewhere. We are slow learners
>> but
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>>>> price
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rhodes sales to include a part an outside seller has
>> latched
>>>>>>> onto.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We could simply be unresponsive to boat owners who
>> purchase
>>>>>>> parts,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> unique
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Rhodes design, from others in competition with GB or
>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fail
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> honor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> agreements with GB. We inherently do not like this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> retaliatory
>>>>>>>>>>> type
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solution, but it is a solution. Or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We could simply close shop and that would close the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> market
>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> unauthorized
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts vendors. This "cutting off ones nose" solution
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However, not taking on rogue suppliers, eating away at
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life
>>>>>>>>>>> cash
>>>>>>>>>>>>> flow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the company, makes it an inevitable solution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In an effort to avoid any of the above solutions,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based on
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> List members in this particular complaint of GB vs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Art C,
>> we
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proposals that we will present to the List next week for
>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feedback. The pro bono time we are having to devote to
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> problems
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions of private sale Rhodes is becoming so
>> overwhelming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (and
>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be mean spirited enough to tell them where to go) that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>> just
>>>>>>>>>>> can't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> seem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manage all of this issue in one sitting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ss
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>> mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailing
>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>>>>>>>>>>>> mailing
>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>
http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660
>>>>>>>>>>> 048p24697834.html
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>> list
>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>> list
>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>
http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660
048p24700483.html
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>>>>>>>>>> mailing list
>> go
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>>>> list
>> go
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>>> list go
>> to
>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>> list go
>> to
>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>> list go
>> to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>> go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:43:04 -0400
>>> From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Message-ID: <1BA7BBD3036947F289B013E52D813110 at rhodes>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>> reply-type=original
>>>
>>> I guess this is a dear John letter
>>>
>>> John Shulick,
>>>
>>> That does not sound like the Stan I know. I know I do not
>>> ignore the
>> good
>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and I
>>> do know
>> I
>>> do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get
>>> through
>> as
>>> was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.
>>>
>>> While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are,
>>> please
>> do
>>> not feel slighted because
>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands on
>>> the list.
>>>
>>> I do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before
>>> my time)
>> and
>>> I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating
>>> wanting to
>> put a
>>> lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not
>>> built by
>> us) I
>>> try very had to discourage them from pouring money into it with the
>> advice
>>> to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model
>>> since the
>>> differences are so drastic.
>>>
>>> I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you
>>> got was
>> not
>>> satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell
>>> whole boat
>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is returnable. Did you
>>> send
>> back
>>> any faulty parts - if not, please do.
>>>
>>> ss
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ben,
>>>>
>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has many
>> complex
>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not
>>>> shure
>>>> whether
>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and
>>>> what the
>>>> price
>>>> point would be for a "sport model". GB would have to make that
>>>> determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any
>>>> posts I
>>>> place
>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and not
>>>> through
>>>> him.
>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and inquired
>>>> about
>> some
>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a
>>>> tiller
>> for
>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder (but
>>>> usable)
>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for
>>>> small
>> parts
>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources
>>>> for my
>> mast
>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this
>>>> week as
>> part
>>>> of
>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an
>> equivilent) ,
>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales to me
>>>> and by
>> the
>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose $2,000
>>>> more.
>> I
>>>> still am in the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a
>>>> complete set
>> of
>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for
>>>> parts and
>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make
>>>> them as
>>>> needed.
>>>>
>>>> John S
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John;
>>>> You're referring to the old US car manufacturers technique known
>>>> as
>> "the
>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but
>>>> add on an
>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our butts
>>>> when
>> they
>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was color.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that much
>>>> less
>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm not
>>>> building
>>>> or selling boats, or cars.
>>>>
>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories
>>>> without
>>>> losing
>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable.
>>>>
>>>> BenCittadino
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>
>>
http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660
048p24704459.html
>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>> go to
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:49:10 -0400
>>> From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Message-ID: <1D4BA299E8024EB6A63F0999A9BD8ED3 at rhodes>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>> reply-type=original
>>>
>>> even my typing is getting sloppy -
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 9:43 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>
>>>
>>>> I guess this is a dear John letter
>>>>
>>>> John Shulick,
>>>>
>>>> That does not sound like the Stan I know. I know I do not
>>>> ignore the
>>>> good
>>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and
>>>> I do
>> know
>>>> I
>>>> do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get
>> through
>>>> as
>>>> was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.
>>>>
>>>> While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are,
>>>> please
>> do
>>>> not feel slighted because
>>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands on
>>>> the
>> list.
>>>>
>>>> I do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my
>> time)
>>>> and
>>>> I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating
>>>> wanting to
>> put
>>>> a
>>>> lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not
>>>> built by
>> us)
>>>> I
>>>> try very had to discourage them from pouring money into it with
>>>> the
>> advice
>>>> to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model
>>>> since the
>>
>>>> differences are so drastic.
>>>>
>>>> I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you
>>>> got
>> was
>>>> not
>>>> satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell
>>>> whole
>> boat
>>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is returnable. Did
>>>> you send
>>>> back
>>>> any faulty parts - if not, please do.
>>>>
>>>> ss
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has many
>> complex
>>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not
>>>>> shure
>>>>> whether
>>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and
>>>>> what the
>>>>> price
>>>>> point would be for a "sport model". GB would have to make that
>>>>> determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any
>>>>> posts I
>>>>> place
>>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and not
>>>>> through
>>>>> him.
>>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and inquired
>>>>> about
>>>>> some
>>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a
>>>>> tiller
>> for
>>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder
>>>>> (but
>>>>> usable)
>>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for
>>>>> small
>> parts
>>>>> was ignored. Sinc can take a hint I now go to other sources
>>>>> for my
>>>>> mast
>>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this
>>>>> week as
>> part
>>>>> of
>>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an
>> equivilent)
>>>>> ,
>>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales to me
>>>>> and by
>> the
>>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose
>>>>> $2,000 more.
>> I
>>>>> still am in the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a
>>>>> complete
>> set
>>>>> of
>>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for
>>>>> parts and
>>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make
>>>>> them
>> as
>>>>> needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> John S
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> John;
>>>>> You're referring to the old US car manufacturers technique
>>>>> known as
>> "the
>>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but
>>>>> add on
>> an
>>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our
>>>>> butts when
>>>>> they
>>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was
>>>>> color.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that
>>>>> much less
>>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm
>>>>> not
>>>>> building
>>>>> or selling boats, or cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories
>>>>> without
>>>>> losing
>>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable.
>>>>>
>>>>> BenCittadino
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>
>>
http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660
048p24704459.html
>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>> list go to
>>
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>> go to
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:11:31 -0400
>>> From: Lou Rosenberg <lsr3 at nyu.edu>
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all
>>> fairness
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Message-ID: <8ADB74E6-CF8C-4B63-B1BE-199E3A0F2676 at nyu.edu>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes;
>> format=flowed
>>>
>>> Rhodes owners, wanna be owners, and lurkers like me,
>>>
>>> I bought my R22 from a discouraged owner who had not taken care of
>>> the boat and was basically dumping it in the back of
>>> a Pt Jefferson yard back in '04. I had been on the list for about a
>>> year before this and Stan advised me NOT to buy that boat.
>>> I went against his advice and through the years , Stan and Elton
>>> have
>>> helped me greatly. I ended up only buying about $1500, worth of
>>> rigging
>>> and supplies on a visit to Edenton NC in 2005, but subsequently
>>> Elton
>>> brought up a much needed used bow pulpit and new traveler assembly
>>> to my yard a few yrs later.
>>>
>>> In all fairness I have not bought that much from GB over the years
>>> but trust their judgement and of course Stan was right, I should've
>>> waited and I may've found
>>> a better deal. Restoring any boat is NOT that much fun but there
>>> are
>>> rewards of doing it yourself, but sailing is the eventual goal and
>>> ive sacrificed many sailing days to get where I am now.
>>>
>>> I owe so much to all the people on this list ALL of you helping me
>>> out with questions for this novice sailor who has few skills in
>>> terms
>>> of carpentry, fibreglassing
>>> and the like. Next Thurs I hope to launch Miracles for the rest of
>>> the year, keeping her in the calm, semi-polluted waters of Mill
>>> Basin
>>> all winter long.
>>>
>>> wish me luck , I'll need it.
>>>
>>> Stan, maybe its time to bring in new blood and find a way to accept
>>> some sort of retirement from all this grind?
>>>
>>> all the best
>>> and thanks for all your help
>>>
>>> Lou Rosenberg
>>> s/v Miracles
>>> On Jul 29, 2009, at 9:43 AM, stan wrote:
>>>
>>>> I guess this is a dear John letter
>>>>
>>>> John Shulick,
>>>>
>>>> That does not sound like the Stan I know. I know I do not ignore
>>>> the good
>>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and I
>>>> do know I
>>>> do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get
>>>> through as
>>>> was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.
>>>>
>>>> While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are,
>>>> please do
>>>> not feel slighted because
>>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands on
>>>> the
>>>> list.
>>>>
>>>> I do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my
>>>> time) and
>>>> I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating
>>>> wanting
>>>> to put a
>>>> lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not
>>>> built
>>>> by us) I
>>>> try very had to discourage them from pouring money into it with
>>>> the
>>>> advice
>>>> to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model
>>>> since
>>>> the
>>>> differences are so drastic.
>>>>
>>>> I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you
>>>> got was not
>>>> satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell
>>>> whole boat
>>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is returnable. Did you
>>>> send back
>>>> any faulty parts - if not, please do.
>>>>
>>>> ss
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has many
>>>>> complex
>>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not
>>>>> shure
>>>>> whether
>>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and
>>>>> what
>>>>> the
>>>>> price
>>>>> point would be for a "sport model". GB would have to make that
>>>>> determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any
>>>>> posts I
>>>>> place
>>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and not
>>>>> through
>>>>> him.
>>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and inquired
>>>>> about some
>>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a
>>>>> tiller for
>>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder
>>>>> (but
>>>>> usable)
>>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for
>>>>> small parts
>>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources
>>>>> for
>>>>> my mast
>>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this week
>>>>> as part
>>>>> of
>>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an
>>>>> equivilent) ,
>>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales to me and
>>>>> by the
>>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose $2,000
>>>>> more. I
>>>>> still am in the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a
>>>>> complete set of
>>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for
>>>>> parts
>>>>> and
>>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make
>>>>> them as
>>>>> needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> John S
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> John;
>>>>> You're referring to the old US car manufacturers technique known
>>>>> as "the
>>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but add
>>>>> on an
>>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our butts
>>>>> when they
>>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was
>>>>> color.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that
>>>>> much less
>>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm
>>>>> not
>>>>> building
>>>>> or selling boats, or cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories
>>>>> without
>>>>> losing
>>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable.
>>>>>
>>>>> BenCittadino
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-
>>>>> tp24660048p24704459.html
>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>> go to
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>> go
>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>> Lou Rosenberg
>>> Videographer
>>>
>>> Steinhardt School of Culture, Education and
>>> Human Development at NYU
>>>
>>> 239 Greene Street, Room 315
>>> lsr3 at nyu.edu
>>>
>>> (212) 998-5122
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 6
>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:04:28 -0400 (EDT)
>>> From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all
>>> fairness
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Message-ID:
>>>
>>
<25945721.1248879868382.JavaMail.root at elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.ne
t
>> >
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>> Lou,
>>>
>>> My guess is retirement in 10-15 years, although I marvel at his,
>>> Rose's,
>> and Elton's energy in this business arena. The composite support
>> effort I
>> have seen by Rhoadies to help other fleet skippers is incredible,
>> and will
>> become even more vital in the years ahead. As parts and
>> accessories may
>> become less available, I, for one, have been keeping my eye out for
>> alternatives. As I discovered a year ago, the spreader brackets
>> are available from
>> Dwyer (I'd keep a close eye on your's if they become distorted
>> with mast
>> stepping using the old GB method). The alternative transom
>> crutch I use
>> and posted can be fabricated by a SS shop I have done work with.
>>>
>>> I have been told that replacement parts is one of the greatest
>>> concerns
>> of fleet skippers if we cannot obtain from GB, a problem I
>> encountered as
>> long as two years ago. I have usually been able to find a
>> substitute as
>> necessary. Maybe we can delay Stan's retirement until 20 years!
>>>
>>> Art
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Lou Rosenberg <lsr3 at nyu.edu>
>>>> Sent: Jul 29, 2009 10:11 AM
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all
>>>> fairness
>>>>
>>>> Rhodes owners, wanna be owners, and lurkers like me,
>>>>
>>>> I bought my R22 from a discouraged owner who had not taken care of
>>>> the boat and was basically dumping it in the back of
>>>> a Pt Jefferson yard back in '04. I had been on the list for
>>>> about a
>>>> year before this and Stan advised me NOT to buy that boat.
>>>> I went against his advice and through the years , Stan and Elton
>>>> have
>>>> helped me greatly. I ended up only buying about $1500, worth of
>>>> rigging
>>
>>>> and supplies on a visit to Edenton NC in 2005, but subsequently
>>>> Elton
>>>> brought up a much needed used bow pulpit and new traveler
>>>> assembly
>>>> to my yard a few yrs later.
>>>>
>>>> In all fairness I have not bought that much from GB over the years
>>>> but trust their judgement and of course Stan was right, I
>>>> should've
>>>> waited and I may've found
>>>> a better deal. Restoring any boat is NOT that much fun but
>>>> there are
>>>> rewards of doing it yourself, but sailing is the eventual goal and
>>>> ive sacrificed many sailing days to get where I am now.
>>>>
>>>> I owe so much to all the people on this list ALL of you helping me
>>>> out with questions for this novice sailor who has few skills in
>>>> terms
>>>> of carpentry, fibreglassing
>>>> and the like. Next Thurs I hope to launch Miracles for the rest
>>>> of
>>>> the year, keeping her in the calm, semi-polluted waters of Mill
>>>> Basin
>>>> all winter long.
>>>>
>>>> wish me luck , I'll need it.
>>>>
>>>> Stan, maybe its time to bring in new blood and find a way to
>>>> accept
>>>> some sort of retirement from all this grind?
>>>>
>>>> all the best
>>>> and thanks for all your help
>>>>
>>>> Lou Rosenberg
>>>> s/v Miracles
>>>> On Jul 29, 2009, at 9:43 AM, stan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I guess this is a dear John letter
>>>>>
>>>>> John Shulick,
>>>>>
>>>>> That does not sound like the Stan I know. I know I do not
>>>>> ignore
>>>>> the good
>>>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and I
>>>>> do know I
>>>>> do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get
>>>>> through as
>>>>> was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.
>>>>>
>>>>> While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are,
>>>>> please do
>>>>> not feel slighted because
>>>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands on
>>>>> the
>>>>> list.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before
>>>>> my
>>>>> time) and
>>>>> I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating
>>>>> wanting
>>>>> to put a
>>>>> lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not
>>>>> built
>>>>> by us) I
>>>>> try very had to discourage them from pouring money into it with
>>>>> the
>>>>> advice
>>>>> to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model
>>>>> since
>>>>> the
>>>>> differences are so drastic.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you
>>>>> got was not
>>>>> satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell
>>>>> whole boat
>>>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is returnable. Did you
>>>>> send back
>>>>> any faulty parts - if not, please do.
>>>>>
>>>>> ss
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has
>>>>>> many
>>>>>> complex
>>>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not
>>>>>> shure
>>>>>> whether
>>>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> price
>>>>>> point would be for a "sport model". GB would have to make that
>>>>>> determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any
>>>>>> posts I
>>>>>> place
>>>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and not
>>>>>> through
>>>>>> him.
>>>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and inquired
>>>>>> about some
>>>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a
>>>>>> tiller for
>>>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder
>>>>>> (but
>>>>>> usable)
>>>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for
>>>>>> small parts
>>>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> my mast
>>>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this
>>>>>> week
>>>>>> as part
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an
>>>>>> equivilent) ,
>>>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales to me
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> by the
>>>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose $2,000
>>>>>> more. I
>>>>>> still am in the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a
>>>>>> complete set of
>>>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for
>>>>>> parts
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make
>>>>>> them as
>>>>>> needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John S
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John;
>>>>>> You're referring to the old US car manufacturers technique known
>>>>>> as "the
>>>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but
>>>>>> add
>>>>>> on an
>>>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our butts
>>>>>> when they
>>>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was
>>>>>> color.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that
>>>>>> much less
>>>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> building
>>>>>> or selling boats, or cars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories
>>>>>> without
>>>>>> losing
>>>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BenCittadino
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-
>>>>>> tp24660048p24704459.html
>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>> go to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>> list go
>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Lou Rosenberg
>>>> Videographer
>>>>
>>>> Steinhardt School of Culture, Education and
>>>> Human Development at NYU
>>>>
>>>> 239 Greene Street, Room 315
>>>> lsr3 at nyu.edu
>>>>
>>>> (212) 998-5122
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>> go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 7
>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:05:27 -0400
>>> From: "Lowe, Rob" <rlowe at vt.edu>
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all
>>> fairness
>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Message-ID:
>>>
<7A5B57319AFF9D4A8060949F2E724D5E02B8B38D at mirkwood.cc.w2k.vt.edu
>>> >
>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Lou,
>>> Good luck to you! It's been fun following along with your trials
>>> and
>>> progress over the years. I could have done what you have done,
>>> I'm glad
>>> my '76 was sailable from day one.
>>>
>>> Now where is Mill Basin and Rockaway Inlet exactly? I'm hunting on
>>> yahoo maps and you're in the New York area?? - Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Lou
>>> Rosenberg
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 10:12 AM
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all
>>> fairness
>>>
>>> Rhodes owners, wanna be owners, and lurkers like me,
>>>
>>> I bought my R22 from a discouraged owner who had not taken care of
>>> the boat and was basically dumping it in the back of
>>> a Pt Jefferson yard back in '04. I had been on the list for about a
>>> year before this and Stan advised me NOT to buy that boat.
>>> I went against his advice and through the years , Stan and Elton
>>> have
>>> helped me greatly. I ended up only buying about $1500, worth of
>>> rigging
>>> and supplies on a visit to Edenton NC in 2005, but subsequently
>>> Elton
>>> brought up a much needed used bow pulpit and new traveler assembly
>
> [Message truncated]
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 08:08:29 EDT
From: R22RumRunner at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy the great white hunter.
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Message-ID: <c8d.4c4331c7.37a82d3d at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Ben,
He was guilty by association. The problem is that we have to many foxes
in
our semi rural area. They are normally nocturnal, but we see two or
three
every day during daylight hours. They were doing their hunting in our
and
the neighbors yard....primarily feeding on our cats. My wife doesn't
like
guns but she told me one day not to come home unless I bought a gun. I
knew
she was serious. There will probably be several more that will meet
their
demise this way. We don't like it, but there isn't any other choice.
Rummy
In a message dated 8/2/2009 7:27:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
bencittadino at gmail.com writes:
Are you sure you got the cat-killer? Did he confess? Maybe it was
self-defense? Maybe he was innocent? Maybe the "real killer" is still
out
there. Oh well, ... ... ...nice boat.
BenCittadino
R22RumRunner wrote:
>
> Caesar,
>
> 12 gauge, 3" magnum, double OO buckshot, 135 feet. I put three shells
into
> him. Gotta love semi automatic shotguns.
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 8/2/2009 6:33:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> caesarpaul01 at yahoo.com writes:
>
> Rummy,
>
> I want to know what caliber, and from what distance.
>
> Caesar
>
> --- On Sun, 8/2/09, R22RumRunner at aol.com <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
wrote:
>
>
> From: R22RumRunner at aol.com <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy the great white hunter.
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 6:36 AM
>
>
> Rick,
> I was wondering if anyone would notice?
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 8/1/2009 6:09:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> sloopblueheron at gmail.com writes:
>
> Rummy,
>
> What's that yellow thing in the background?
>
> Rick
>
> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:18 PM, <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> We have had a serious problem with Foxes in our new neighborhood.
They
> have
>> eaten at least three of our cats in the last year. This morning I
got
> some
>> revenge.
>>
>> Rummy
>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in
just
2
> easy
>> steps!
>> (
>>
>
http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=
http
> ://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
>>
>
=JulystepsfooterNO115<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709
x120
>
1493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668
0
> 72&hmpgID=115&bcd%0A=JulystepsfooterNO115>
>> )
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>> Name: FoxHunder.jpg
>> Type: image/jpeg
>> Size: 2310680 bytes
>> Desc: not available
>> Url :
>>
>
http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20090801/21d
ec4a
> 3/attachment.jpg
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
go
to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
>
> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just
2
> easy
> steps!
>
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir
=htt
> p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
> =JulystepsfooterNO115)
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just
2
> easy
> steps!
>
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir
=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bc
d
> =JulystepsfooterNO115)
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
>
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Rummy-the-great-white-hunter.-tp24770532p24783183.
html
Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
__________________________________________________
To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
http://www.rhodes22.org/list
__________________________________________________
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2
easy
steps!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir
=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bc
d
=JulystepsfooterNO115)
------------------------------
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