[Rhodes22-list] Communication on da Rhodes list

Todd Tavares sprocket80 at mail.com
Wed Dec 23 20:11:09 EST 2009 

 Michael,

"...but one cannot equate 
participation by the Rhodes 22 manufacturer with that of aftermarket 
manufacturers."

Why not? Why is this statement assumed to be true?  It is not true because commercial advertisement is commercial advertisement.


I can see that most here have an vested interest that GB stays in business.
But Art designed a boom room or pop top enclosure similar to the one GB puts out and 
then mentioned it here, he was vilified and berated.  Then Stan says he expects a 5% commission or loyalty fee from anyone who posts 
that his or her boat is for sale here on the list, and can posts freely about anything else commercial. How can anyone say or see this as 
fair and equitable, even if it comes from the manufacturer?

I really do not care either way if commercial post are allowed or not. Our two views do not differ very much, but if the playing field is 
going to be level, then it has to be level. IMHO


 Todd T.

 
P.S. (I wrote "OWNERS" in caps only because I cannot see bold, italics or underlined words in the archive view window)



-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D. Weisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com>
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Wed, Dec 23, 2009 7:56 am
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Communication on da Rhodes list


Todd,

"... if you want to ban commercial advertisement, it will have to apply to 
everyone."
Why? Why is this statement assumed to be true?  You are quite correct in 
stating that this is a Rhodes 22 "Owners" list but one cannot equate 
participation by the Rhodes 22 manufacturer with that of aftermarket 
manufacturers.

That said, I am NOT in favor of a ban on commercial posts at all.   Please 
keep them simple, occassional and not directed towards a particular 
individual (do not chases leads on da list) and we will be fine.  If Stan 
announces that he is building a Catalina Conversion available at a 
particular price to those who might be interested, or Art has a boom room 
for sale, that's fine by me.  I think that the problem was that Stan and Art 
were using da list to fuel their feud.

I would still appreciate a simple website for reference, pictures and 
pricing.  Art, if you need help setting it up, just ask.  They're not 
difficult or expensive ($5/month or so at 
http://www.netfirms.com/web-hosting/index.php including Sitebuilder.)  See, 
commercial posting, no problem (NB: I am not affiliated with netfirms.)

Mike
s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
Nissequogue River, NY

From: "Todd Tavares": Wednesday, December 23, 2009 5:22 AM
>
> Rik, and Michael,
>
>    No disrespect meant to anyone here, but this is the Rhodes 22 "OWNERS" 
> list.  Not the General
> Boats list, Art's canvas list, etc. No one had a problem with Stan 
> participating, posting ads, and
> even most agreed with his insane 5% commission for listed here for sale 
> until a bunch of guys jumped on Art.
> But Stan has a website too.
> Maybe some of the more computer savvy guys here should help MJM re-do the 
> GB website and literature
> so it is up to date and flashy.
>
> We are 99.9% loyal to Stan and the future of GB, but the bottom line is 
> that this is the owners
> group list and if you want to ban commercial advertisement, it will have 
> to apply to everyone.
> Let us not confuse the issues.
>
> Todd T
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rik Sandberg <sanderico1 at gmail.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Wed, Dec 23, 2009 12:20 am
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Communication on da Rhodes list
>
>
> Art,
>
> "Know that I am the manufacturer,  also the designer, and also the worker
> bee.  I am also the risk taker - in a game with loaded dice"
>
> Yeah, so??? Is this the Art's boom room and pop-top enclosure list??
>
> In the almost 11 years I have been on this list, nobody has ever had a
> problem doing their business business back channel until you came along.
>
> Websites are cheap. Make one up, put a link in your sig.
>
> But please, stop whining about it.
>
> Rik
>
> On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Art Czerwonky 
> <a_czerwonky at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>> Michael,
>>
>> I defer to Stan and GBI on the credibility and quality of this boat we 
>> all
>> own.  Unknown to him I referred two credible prospects directly to him at
>> the St Pete show earlier this month.  I don't expect letters, candy, or
>> flowers for my honest attempt to help prosper his boat efforts.  I will 
>> not,
>> however, defer to him on the credibility and quality of the cockpit
>> enclosure or the boat cover or even the PTE.
>>
>> Michael, with all due respect, you accord special status to the
>> manufacturer of a product.  Know that I am the manufacturer,  also the
>> designer, and also the worker bee.  I am also the risk taker - in a game
>> with loaded dice.  Stan does not manufacture canvas, and he is, no doubt
>> very thankful for that.  Sometimes it helps to put yourself in someone
>> else's shoes.  I need the opportunity to survive this business just like 
>> he
>> does, for the good of a fleet that wants choices and viable options.
>>
>> Art
>>
>> --- On Tue, 12/22/09, Michael D. Weisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com> wrote:
>>
>> > From: Michael D. Weisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Commercial Ads on da Rhodes list
>> > To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> > Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 6:12 PM
>> > Todd,
>> >
>> > You have a good point and I don't disagree except (here it
>> > comes) in the
>> > case of GBI.  After all, this is called the Rhodes 22
>> > list because it is
>> > about the Rhodes 22 sailboat.  I believe that Stan
>> > (GBI) has a slightly
>> > different place on the list than Art or anyone else for
>> > that matter.
>> >
>> > This list embodies a group of diverse individuals brought
>> > together mostly
>> > through the efforts of Stan, directly or indirectly.
>> > It has been my
>> > pleasure to provide information and assistance to other
>> > Rhodies, in an
>> > effort to help GBI.  This is not to say that I
>> > wouldn't help Art succeed,
>> > quite the contrary, but I do not treat the boat
>> > manufacturer and an
>> > aftermarket accessory maker in the same way.  I
>> > believe that this is the
>> > point of distinction.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> > s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
>> > Nissequogue River, NY
>> >
>> >
>> > From: "Todd Tavares" Tuesday, December 22, 2009 5:33 PM
>> > >
>> > > Michael,
>> > >
>> > >     I think you are looking at
>> > that old discussion through Rose (and Stan)
>> > > colored glasses. Art has a valid point, regardless of
>> > the sour grapes
>> > > which went on between him and Stan.  Commercial
>> > advertisement is
>> > > commercial advertisement.  If you think Art
>> > should only be allowed to
>> > > direct Rhodes listers to a website, then the rules
>> > should apply across the
>> > > board---Art,Stan, myself, or anyone else.
>> > > IMHO
>> > >
>> > > Todd T
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: Michael D. Weisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com>
>> > > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> > > Sent: Tue, Dec 22, 2009 3:00 pm
>> > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Commercial Ads on da Rhodes
>> > list
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Art,
>> > >
>> > > Do you have a website that you could refer interested
>> > parties to?  I would
>> > > not mind a link to a site (occasionally) much the same
>> > as has been done
>> > > for
>> > > other vendors (WM, Defender, Dwyer, Doyle, etc.) and
>> > even a Rhodie canvas
>> > > shop.
>> > >
>> > > I think that the original objection had to do with
>> > chasing leads and
>> > > airing
>> > > the GBI/AHC controversy using the list.
>> > >
>> > > Now, about that Babes on Boats thread ...
>> > >
>> > > Mike
>> > > s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
>> > > Nissequogue River, NY
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
>> > > To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 11:02 AM
>> > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Babes on Boats
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> All,
>> > >>
>> > >> I think this is an excellent suggestion.  As
>> > I produce BR, PT, and cover
>> > >> options as a service to the fleet, MJM has
>> > suggested that it is somehow
>> > >> slacking ethic to make this knowledge available to
>> > the skippers who want
>> > >> and need it.  An interesting and apparently
>> > biased slant considering that
>> > >> Stan has freely taken the perogative with the
>> > Catalina 25 conversion,
>> > >> which he has openly announced and advertised on
>> > our list, with price and
>> > >> all.
>> > >>
>> > >> Understand that I have no objection at all to
>> > Stan's placement of his
>> > >> notice/ad.  The playing field should be
>> > level, however.  Any double
>> > >> standard is a disservice to our fleet skippers and
>> > owners.  Our objective
>> > >> should be to provide the very best information and
>> > service to a very
>> > >> deserving and intelligent fleet market.
>> > >>
>> > >> Art
>> > >> s/v Mary Jane
>> > >> Lake Hartwell/St Pete
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > >>>From: Stephen Staum <staum at earthlink.net>
>> > >>>Sent: Dec 22, 2009 10:06 AM
>> > >>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> > >>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Babes on Boats
>> > >>>
>> > >>>Sign me up for this one!
>> > >>>
>> > >>>Sent from my iPhone
>> > >>>
>> > >>>On Dec 22, 2009, at 8:02 AM, Leland <LKUHN at cnmc.org>
>> > wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> I'd also like to see a "Babes on Boats"
>> > section. :)
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Greg PA wrote:
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> One last thought is I wish this forum
>> > was split into categories. It
>> > >>>>> would
>> > >>>>> be nice to have a "buy and sell",
>> > non-sailing, older Rhodes. new
>> > >>>>> Rhodes
>> > >>>>> sections. I know the forum must be a
>> > lot of work for the people who
>> > >>>>> maintain it, but the other forums with
>> > the categories seem to have
>> > >>>>> less
>> > >>>>> squabbles.
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> Happy and Safe Holidays
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> --
>> > >>>> View this message in context:
>> > >>>>
>> http://old.nabble.com/Rhodes-List--Robertson%27s-Rules-Of-Order-tp26835266p26887976.html
>> > >>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list
>> > archive at Nabble.com.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > __________________________________________________
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>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> For the list Charter and help with using
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>> > >>>>
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>> > >>>to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> > >>>__________________________________________________
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > __________________________________________________
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>> > >>
>> > >> For the list Charter and help with using the
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>
>
>
> -- 
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> turning out graduates who cannot feel fulfilled unless they are telling
> other people what to do. There are already too many people like that, and
> they are a menace to everyone else's freedom. ...Thomas Sowell
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