[Rhodes22-list] Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 2075, Issue 1

Sat Dec 26 11:38:37 EST 2009

Todd
Although that sounds like a good idea, I am not sure that something like
that is enforceable.

Deena

-----Original Message-----
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rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:00 PM
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Subject: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 2075, Issue 1

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Communication on da Rhodes list (Todd Tavares)
   2. Re: Motor Lift Repair - what material? (Stephen Staum)
   3. Re: Motor Lift Repair - what material? (Todd Tavares)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 20:09:29 -0500
From: Todd Tavares <sprocket80 at mail.com>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Communication on da Rhodes list
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Message-ID: <8CC53160B430AA0-1610-60F3 at web-mmc-d03.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 Stan,

  I don't see where I quoted you.  I can only assume you are referring to my
post where I wrote:

"...Stan says he expects a 5% commission or loyalty fee from anyone who
posts

that his or her boat is for sale here on the list..."

I paraphrased your earlier statement and I apologize if you were offended. I
should have quoted you directly.

>From your past post:

"...Why can't the List have such a button that must
be clicked for entry where the fine print says that, in recognition of the
ongoing effort in time and labor and dollars that go into making resale of
the
Rhodes easier and higher priced than the competition, Rhodes owners agree to
a
modified 5% brokers fee to be paid when and if they sell their Rhodes..."

  Todd T.

-----Original Message-----
From: stan <stan at rhodes22.com>
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Thu, Dec 24, 2009 9:31 am
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Communication on da Rhodes list

Todd, shame for misquoting me.  I guess you can now qualify for a TV talking

head

ss

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Todd Tavares" <sprocket80 at mail.com>
To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Communication on da Rhodes list

>
> Michael,
>
> "...but one cannot equate
> participation by the Rhodes 22 manufacturer with that of aftermarket
> manufacturers."
>
> Why not? Why is this statement assumed to be true?  It is not true because

> commercial advertisement is commercial advertisement.
>
>
> I can see that most here have an vested interest that GB stays in 
> business.
> But Art designed a boom room or pop top enclosure similar to the one GB 
> puts out and
> then mentioned it here, he was vilified and berated.  Then Stan says he 
> expects a 5% commission or loyalty fee from anyone who posts
> that his or her boat is for sale here on the list, and can posts freely 
> about anything else commercial. How can anyone say or see this as
> fair and equitable, even if it comes from the manufacturer?
>
> I really do not care either way if commercial post are allowed or not. Our

> two views do not differ very much, but if the playing field is
> going to be level, then it has to be level. IMHO
>
>
> Todd T.
>
>
> P.S. (I wrote "OWNERS" in caps only because I cannot see bold, italics or 
> underlined words in the archive view window)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael D. Weisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Wed, Dec 23, 2009 7:56 am
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Communication on da Rhodes list
>
>
> Todd,
>
> "... if you want to ban commercial advertisement, it will have to apply to
> everyone."
> Why? Why is this statement assumed to be true?  You are quite correct in
> stating that this is a Rhodes 22 "Owners" list but one cannot equate
> participation by the Rhodes 22 manufacturer with that of aftermarket
> manufacturers.
>
> That said, I am NOT in favor of a ban on commercial posts at all.   Please
> keep them simple, occassional and not directed towards a particular
> individual (do not chases leads on da list) and we will be fine.  If Stan
> announces that he is building a Catalina Conversion available at a
> particular price to those who might be interested, or Art has a boom room
> for sale, that's fine by me.  I think that the problem was that Stan and 
> Art
> were using da list to fuel their feud.
>
> I would still appreciate a simple website for reference, pictures and
> pricing.  Art, if you need help setting it up, just ask.  They're not
> difficult or expensive ($5/month or so at
> http://www.netfirms.com/web-hosting/index.php including Sitebuilder.) 
> See,
> commercial posting, no problem (NB: I am not affiliated with netfirms.)
>
> Mike
> s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
> Nissequogue River, NY
>
> From: "Todd Tavares": Wednesday, December 23, 2009 5:22 AM
>>
>> Rik, and Michael,
>>
>>    No disrespect meant to anyone here, but this is the Rhodes 22 "OWNERS"
>> list.  Not the General
>> Boats list, Art's canvas list, etc. No one had a problem with Stan
>> participating, posting ads, and
>> even most agreed with his insane 5% commission for listed here for sale
>> until a bunch of guys jumped on Art.
>> But Stan has a website too.
>> Maybe some of the more computer savvy guys here should help MJM re-do the
>> GB website and literature
>> so it is up to date and flashy.
>>
>> We are 99.9% loyal to Stan and the future of GB, but the bottom line is
>> that this is the owners
>> group list and if you want to ban commercial advertisement, it will have
>> to apply to everyone.
>> Let us not confuse the issues.
>>
>> Todd T
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rik Sandberg <sanderico1 at gmail.com>
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Sent: Wed, Dec 23, 2009 12:20 am
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Communication on da Rhodes list
>>
>>
>> Art,
>>
>> "Know that I am the manufacturer,  also the designer, and also the worker
>> bee.  I am also the risk taker - in a game with loaded dice"
>>
>> Yeah, so??? Is this the Art's boom room and pop-top enclosure list??
>>
>> In the almost 11 years I have been on this list, nobody has ever had a
>> problem doing their business business back channel until you came along.
>>
>> Websites are cheap. Make one up, put a link in your sig.
>>
>> But please, stop whining about it.
>>
>> Rik
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Art Czerwonky
>> <a_czerwonky at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Michael,
>>>
>>> I defer to Stan and GBI on the credibility and quality of this boat we
>>> all
>>> own.  Unknown to him I referred two credible prospects directly to him 
>>> at
>>> the St Pete show earlier this month.  I don't expect letters, candy, or
>>> flowers for my honest attempt to help prosper his boat efforts.  I will
>>> not,
>>> however, defer to him on the credibility and quality of the cockpit
>>> enclosure or the boat cover or even the PTE.
>>>
>>> Michael, with all due respect, you accord special status to the
>>> manufacturer of a product.  Know that I am the manufacturer,  also the
>>> designer, and also the worker bee.  I am also the risk taker - in a game
>>> with loaded dice.  Stan does not manufacture canvas, and he is, no doubt
>>> very thankful for that.  Sometimes it helps to put yourself in someone
>>> else's shoes.  I need the opportunity to survive this business just like
>>> he
>>> does, for the good of a fleet that wants choices and viable options.
>>>
>>> Art
>>>
>>> --- On Tue, 12/22/09, Michael D. Weisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > From: Michael D. Weisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com>
>>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Commercial Ads on da Rhodes list
>>> > To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> > Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 6:12 PM
>>> > Todd,
>>> >
>>> > You have a good point and I don't disagree except (here it
>>> > comes) in the
>>> > case of GBI.  After all, this is called the Rhodes 22
>>> > list because it is
>>> > about the Rhodes 22 sailboat.  I believe that Stan
>>> > (GBI) has a slightly
>>> > different place on the list than Art or anyone else for
>>> > that matter.
>>> >
>>> > This list embodies a group of diverse individuals brought
>>> > together mostly
>>> > through the efforts of Stan, directly or indirectly.
>>> > It has been my
>>> > pleasure to provide information and assistance to other
>>> > Rhodies, in an
>>> > effort to help GBI.  This is not to say that I
>>> > wouldn't help Art succeed,
>>> > quite the contrary, but I do not treat the boat
>>> > manufacturer and an
>>> > aftermarket accessory maker in the same way.  I
>>> > believe that this is the
>>> > point of distinction.
>>> >
>>> > Mike
>>> > s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
>>> > Nissequogue River, NY
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > From: "Todd Tavares" Tuesday, December 22, 2009 5:33 PM
>>> > >
>>> > > Michael,
>>> > >
>>> > >     I think you are looking at
>>> > that old discussion through Rose (and Stan)
>>> > > colored glasses. Art has a valid point, regardless of
>>> > the sour grapes
>>> > > which went on between him and Stan.  Commercial
>>> > advertisement is
>>> > > commercial advertisement.  If you think Art
>>> > should only be allowed to
>>> > > direct Rhodes listers to a website, then the rules
>>> > should apply across the
>>> > > board---Art,Stan, myself, or anyone else.
>>> > > IMHO
>>> > >
>>> > > Todd T
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > -----Original Message-----
>>> > > From: Michael D. Weisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com>
>>> > > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> > > Sent: Tue, Dec 22, 2009 3:00 pm
>>> > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Commercial Ads on da Rhodes
>>> > list
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Art,
>>> > >
>>> > > Do you have a website that you could refer interested
>>> > parties to?  I would
>>> > > not mind a link to a site (occasionally) much the same
>>> > as has been done
>>> > > for
>>> > > other vendors (WM, Defender, Dwyer, Doyle, etc.) and
>>> > even a Rhodie canvas
>>> > > shop.
>>> > >
>>> > > I think that the original objection had to do with
>>> > chasing leads and
>>> > > airing
>>> > > the GBI/AHC controversy using the list.
>>> > >
>>> > > Now, about that Babes on Boats thread ...
>>> > >
>>> > > Mike
>>> > > s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
>>> > > Nissequogue River, NY
>>> > >
>>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > > From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
>>> > > To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 11:02 AM
>>> > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Babes on Boats
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> All,
>>> > >>
>>> > >> I think this is an excellent suggestion.  As
>>> > I produce BR, PT, and cover
>>> > >> options as a service to the fleet, MJM has
>>> > suggested that it is somehow
>>> > >> slacking ethic to make this knowledge available to
>>> > the skippers who want
>>> > >> and need it.  An interesting and apparently
>>> > biased slant considering that
>>> > >> Stan has freely taken the perogative with the
>>> > Catalina 25 conversion,
>>> > >> which he has openly announced and advertised on
>>> > our list, with price and
>>> > >> all.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Understand that I have no objection at all to
>>> > Stan's placement of his
>>> > >> notice/ad.  The playing field should be
>>> > level, however.  Any double
>>> > >> standard is a disservice to our fleet skippers and
>>> > owners.  Our objective
>>> > >> should be to provide the very best information and
>>> > service to a very
>>> > >> deserving and intelligent fleet market.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Art
>>> > >> s/v Mary Jane
>>> > >> Lake Hartwell/St Pete
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>>> > >>>From: Stephen Staum <staum at earthlink.net>
>>> > >>>Sent: Dec 22, 2009 10:06 AM
>>> > >>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> > >>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Babes on Boats
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>Sign me up for this one!
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>Sent from my iPhone
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>On Dec 22, 2009, at 8:02 AM, Leland <LKUHN at cnmc.org>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> I'd also like to see a "Babes on Boats"
>>> > section. :)
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> Greg PA wrote:
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>> One last thought is I wish this forum
>>> > was split into categories. It
>>> > >>>>> would
>>> > >>>>> be nice to have a "buy and sell",
>>> > non-sailing, older Rhodes. new
>>> > >>>>> Rhodes
>>> > >>>>> sections. I know the forum must be a
>>> > lot of work for the people who
>>> > >>>>> maintain it, but the other forums with
>>> > the categories seem to have
>>> > >>>>> less
>>> > >>>>> squabbles.
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>> Happy and Safe Holidays
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> --
>>> > >>>> View this message in context:
>>> > >>>>
>>>
http://old.nabble.com/Rhodes-List--Robertson%27s-Rules-Of-Order-tp26835266p2
6887976.html
>>> > >>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list
>>> > archive at Nabble.com.
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>>
>>> > __________________________________________________
>>> > >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>> > >>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> For the list Charter and help with using
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>>> > >>>> archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> > >>>>
>>> > __________________________________________________
>>> > >>>__________________________________________________
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>>> > >>>http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>For the list Charter and help with using the
>>> > mailing list and archives go
>>> > >>>to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> > >>>__________________________________________________
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > __________________________________________________
>>> > >> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>> > >> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>> > >>
>>> > >> For the list Charter and help with using the
>>> > mailing list and archives go
>>> > >> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> > >>
>>> > __________________________________________________
>>> > >>
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter.
>>> > > We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam.
>>> > > SPAMfighter has removed 9717 of my spam emails to
>>> > date.
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>>> > > __________________________________________________
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>>> > >
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>>> > list and archives go
>>> > > to
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>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > __________________________________________________
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>>> > >
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>>> > list and archives go
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>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Many colleges claim that they develop "leaders." All too often, that 
>> means
>> turning out graduates who cannot feel fulfilled unless they are telling
>> other people what to do. There are already too many people like that, and
>> they are a menace to everyone else's freedom. ...Thomas Sowell
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
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>> to
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>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
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>>
>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go
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>>
>
>
> --
> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter.
> We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam.
> SPAMfighter has removed 5296 of my spam emails to date.
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>
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>
>
> __________________________________________________
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__________________________________________________

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 10:14:17 -0500
From: Stephen Staum <staum at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Motor Lift Repair - what material?
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID: <B5314A51-8DA4-4822-9C6E-3C9055087AC4 at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii;	format=flowed;
delsp=yes

I don't understand the " hole in the water" reference to the Rhodes. I  
run mine for under $1000 per year including maintenance, insurance &  
the dues @ my club ( for launch service to my mooring).

Stephen Staum
'87 R22, Carol Lee

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 23, 2009, at 10:22 AM, "Michael D. Weisner"  
<mweisner at ebsmed.com> wrote:

> Rob,
>
> Patrick clearly needs to learn to prioritize properly.  Sailboats  
> are ALWAYS
> more important than a roof over one's head or gifts for the  
> kiddies.  That's
> why it's always been "OUR house" and "MY boat", even though the title
> specifies otherwise!
>
> Mike
> s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
> Nissequogue River, NY
>
> From: "Lowe, Rob" Wednesday, December 23, 2009 10:09 AM
>> Patrick,
>> What?  Mortgage and Christmas more important than sailboat parts?   
>> Sounds
>> like you have your work cut out for you.  Owning a boat is about
>> equivalent to having a second mortgage.  My two favorite(?) two boat
>> descriptions are:  Boat - a whole in the water you throw money  
>> into, and
>> BOAT = Bring On Another Thousand. - rob
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of PBR
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 11:09 PM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Motor Lift Repair - what material?
>>
>> Thanks all for the advice on materials.  I've been off the net a  
>> few days.
>>
>> Rummy, I will be trailer-sailing out of the Denver area.  Rookie this
>> year.
>> I'll probably post something about my first sails when the cold  
>> season
>> really slows down the list traffic and everyone is bored.
>> Rummy and Andrew  - my motor lift parts are definitely not  
>> aluminum, but I
>> did check out a local recycling outfit and couldn't find any aluminum
>> shapes
>> that would work.  I will inquire with Stan but I think it is too  
>> old for
>> replacement parts so I will check on a new lift.  However, my wife  
>> seems
>> to
>> think the mortgage and Christmas are more important than sailboat  
>> parts so
>> I
>> need to do everything on-the-cheap.  She is not hooked yet  
>> apparently.
>>
>> Starboard may work for me.  If you have any sources for the UV  
>> resistant,
>> high density plastic please e-mial.  I e-mailed the manufacturer of  
>> the
>> cutting board material I was considering and asked if it was UV  
>> resistant.
>> The response e-mail was simply "No".
>>
>> -Patrick
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>
>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and  
>> archives go
>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>
>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and  
>> archives go
>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>
>
> --
> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter.
> We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam.
> SPAMfighter has removed 9797 of my spam emails to date.
> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
>
> The Professional version does not have this message
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
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>
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> archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 11:29:21 -0500
From: Todd Tavares <sprocket80 at mail.com>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Motor Lift Repair - what material?
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Message-ID: <8CC53968C2417FB-169C-6764 at web-mmc-m04.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Patrick,
I have used this company to have plastic parts made.
http://www.norvaplastics.com/

Send them the old part.  Or if you make a drawing in . dwf format
using a program like autocad, the can just load the file into their CNC
machine. They can make parts from any material you
choose. They are in the Norfolk, VA area.

 Stan, these guys may be able to make parts for you too.

Todd T.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS

-----Original Message-----
From: PBR <pbryanriley at gmail.com>
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Tue, Dec 22, 2009 11:08 pm
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Motor Lift Repair - what material?

Thanks all for the advice on materials.  I've been off the net a few days.

Rummy, I will be trailer-sailing out of the Denver area.  Rookie this year.
I'll probably post something about my first sails when the cold season
really slows down the list traffic and everyone is bored.
Rummy and Andrew  - my motor lift parts are definitely not aluminum, but I
did check out a local recycling outfit and couldn't find any aluminum shapes
that would work.  I will inquire with Stan but I think it is too old for
replacement parts so I will check on a new lift.  However, my wife seems to
think the mortgage and Christmas are more important than sailboat parts so I
need to do everything on-the-cheap.  She is not hooked yet apparently.

Starboard may work for me.  If you have any sources for the UV resistant,
high density plastic please e-mial.  I e-mailed the manufacturer of the
cutting board material I was considering and asked if it was UV resistant.
The response e-mail was simply "No".

-Patrick
__________________________________________________
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__________________________________________________

------------------------------

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End of Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 2075, Issue 1
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