[Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses

[Todd Tavares]

 Art,

      While it may be like fingernails on a chalkboard to some (as will
this e-mail), but why don't you defend yourself here in open forum?
Your response just changed the subject. Besides, people here on the list
who know me know I like a good argument.

    Stan does sell unique parts to to his unique boat. When I asked for
pintles and gudgeons because I wanted build
a rudder head just like the GB one, he would not sell them to me because
my boat was bought aftermarket; not from him.  He
reserved to sell these specialized parts to "paying" customers, because
his supplier was no longer in business and he had a finite
number in stock.  This pissed me off at first, but I understand and would
do the same if I were him. Stan did however sell me a traveler
car and for that I am grateful. I also sent Stan some money for a used
standard mainsail and he sent me four.

 Twice I spoke about used boats which I was negotiating to purchase, here
on the list, and both times Stan contacted the sellers and bought
them out from under me. (which is why I did not talk about the e-bay boat
in Bessemer City, NC). I never demanded a voluntary
finder's fee from GB. So, I agree that paying any "volunteered" royalty
or fee to GB for parts or boats sold here on the list is ridiculous....
except in the case where Stan steers buyers to the list.  Since the fees
are voluntary, I don't think Stan should throw it in anyone's face
either if they did not pay--nor do I believe these fees make or break
GB,even in the present economy.

   Like you Art, I'd guess, there is nothing on any year Rhodes 22 which
I could not fabricate myself (time permitting). I am all for giving Stan
his due, and would
rather buy a part from GB than have to make it myself. I would support
the argument of selling any fabricated "copied" parts here on the
list or otherwise; sans royalty fee, if Stan no longer sells or would
fabricate and obsolete part. I'd imagine if that were the case, he'd
probably
tell you to knock yourself out because you would not be stealing his
business. I started a heated debate over intellectual property rights
when
I created and posted dimensioned drawings of the triad trailer. My
drawings are to benefit the do-it-yourselfers on the list and not to sell
knock-offs.
Nor am I worried about pissing Stan off by not paying a commission,
royalty, "tithe" or 'loyalty' fee lest he refuse to sell me another part.
I would however
worry about him suing me.

   Stan does have a business to run, and has painted a less than rosy
picture. I can't be the only inquiring mind wanting to know.

  Todd T

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky"
  To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
  Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses
  Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:18:45 -0400 (EDT)


  Guys,

  Like I said once before, if anyone cares to hear more detail on the
  'private and personal issues' that Stan has inappropriately focused
  on in this public forum, please contact me off-line or on the
  phone. Some have done already. He has gotten something off his
  chest. Simply put, there is a "World according to Stan" that is so
  sadly distorted in this case. I'd avoid it for yourself.

  It is such a waste of your time to fixate on such a trivial matters
  like these. Let's get to the key issues. I suspect Mary Lou made
  an excellent point of support for a payment of a surcharge,
  royalty, or commission for products of non-GB origin that we need
  and purchase for our fleet boats. If this is to be a sincere
  gesture to Stan by fleet members, it should not be limited to
  products supplied by me or anyone who happens to be a member of our
  fleet. When we buy line, SS fixtures, sails, anchors, or any
  equipment for our boats, this would seem to be similar
  justification for an override, a 'loyalty' fee or tithe, if you
  will.

  Consider this :Two years ago I found it necessary to approach Dwyer
  about replacing my spreader fixtures, distorted after many years of
  mast stepping. We used the rear lower shroud for attachment to the
  crane for lifting the IMF - the GB recommended method as late as
  the '06 Annapolis show. I approached Stan three times over as many
  months, from before that show until before the St Pete show the
  same year, in order to purchase two fixtures at about $40 per, and
  never received any response at all - none, nada, zippo. That seems
  non-responsive. Now, having to go to Dwyer, is a skipper whose
  request has been ignored somehow expected to forward a commission
  fee to Stan? Make your own judgement on what makes sense.

  If GB needs to be further underwritten and supported, maybe Stan
  should consider making interested investors shareholder/partners in
  GB. As 'stakeholders' in the R22 fleet, maybe this is not so far
  fetched for some of us, although not me. Think about it. There
  ought to be some way we can infuse GB without Stan effectively
  having to seek donations versus legit services. If GB is in a
  financial bind, more is needed than a loyalty fee gesture. This
  is, no doubt, a sensitive issue for him since it could affect GB
  ownership.

  I am not aware of any manufacturer (picture any of the sailboat
  manufacturers, even Catalina or MacGregor) who expects their
  customers to pay homage to them for after-market sales, maintenance
  or upgrades on their products which are not contracted by the
  manufacturer. Is anyone aware of such an industry obligation?

  A comment on my work - I am making a tiller cover for Dave, no
  charge, BTW. I have to charge when I make other items, ie the
  Cockpit Enclosure. I have no objection whatever if any client
  wants to project a 10% add-on for Stan. I simply cannot establish
  this 'side account' within my little enterprise, for tax and
  precedent issues. My pledge to you is that you will be using the
  absolute best product at the best cost, no exception. If I cannot
  provide the best value for you I will tell you honestly and decline
  the opportunity until I can, and I have done this. I'll respond
  promptly, by cell usually (I can get to know you and your
  priorities better), and produce with a commit to delivery and cost,
  even if I underestimate. I will treat any work as a priority
  custom crafted and fitted job, no assembly line mentality. I will
  provide more than enough cost advantage to enable to you to send
  Stan his due, but will not define the cost in such a way that
  requires you to. It w!
  ill be your free choice, friends. One additional point - I will
  enjoy making your product, whatever it is, and you will enjoy using
  it - that's just the rule. I will do well with canvas, and don't
  think I will begin producing sailboats...

  I will make a strong suggestion: Even though PR happenings, like
  the #1 poll results, an impressive 'Good Old Boat' writeup in ~
  '05, and the 'Sailing' p52 piece are good and free advertising,
  some form of paid advertising seems long overdue if the GB goal is
  increased boat orders and boat production. Many of us found the
  R22 by sheer chance. Why put 'the bar' so low on purpose (BTW,
  with no reference to Rummy)?

  Once again, time for an aspirin...

  Stan for Vice President, Rose for Ms. America!

  Art


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