[Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses

[Arthur H. Czerwonky]

If you get five replies from me, it's a little like my email to Mary Lou that started this firestorm, my Earthlink email is not sending the emails as I designate.  Are we TOUGH?

Art

-----Original Message-----
>From: Todd Tavares <sprocket80 at mail.com>
>Sent: Jul 16, 2009 7:30 PM
>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses
>
> Art,
>
>      While it may be like fingernails on a chalkboard to some (as will
>this e-mail), but why don't you defend yourself here in open forum?
>Your response just changed the subject. Besides, people here on the list
>who know me know I like a good argument.
>
>    Stan does sell unique parts to to his unique boat. When I asked for
>pintles and gudgeons because I wanted build
>a rudder head just like the GB one, he would not sell them to me because
>my boat was bought aftermarket; not from him.  He
>reserved to sell these specialized parts to "paying" customers, because
>his supplier was no longer in business and he had a finite
>number in stock.  This pissed me off at first, but I understand and would
>do the same if I were him. Stan did however sell me a traveler
>car and for that I am grateful. I also sent Stan some money for a used
>standard mainsail and he sent me four.
>
> Twice I spoke about used boats which I was negotiating to purchase, here
>on the list, and both times Stan contacted the sellers and bought
>them out from under me. (which is why I did not talk about the e-bay boat
>in Bessemer City, NC). I never demanded a voluntary
>finder's fee from GB. So, I agree that paying any "volunteered" royalty
>or fee to GB for parts or boats sold here on the list is ridiculous....
>except in the case where Stan steers buyers to the list.  Since the fees
>are voluntary, I don't think Stan should throw it in anyone's face
>either if they did not pay--nor do I believe these fees make or break
>GB,even in the present economy.
>
>   Like you Art, I'd guess, there is nothing on any year Rhodes 22 which
>I could not fabricate myself (time permitting). I am all for giving Stan
>his due, and would
>rather buy a part from GB than have to make it myself. I would support
>the argument of selling any fabricated "copied" parts here on the
>list or otherwise; sans royalty fee, if Stan no longer sells or would
>fabricate and obsolete part. I'd imagine if that were the case, he'd
>probably
>tell you to knock yourself out because you would not be stealing his
>business. I started a heated debate over intellectual property rights
>when
>I created and posted dimensioned drawings of the triad trailer. My
>drawings are to benefit the do-it-yourselfers on the list and not to sell
>knock-offs.
>Nor am I worried about pissing Stan off by not paying a commission,
>royalty, "tithe" or 'loyalty' fee lest he refuse to sell me another part.
>I would however
>worry about him suing me.
>
>   Stan does have a business to run, and has painted a less than rosy
>picture. I can't be the only inquiring mind wanting to know.
>
>  Todd T
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky"
>  To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>  Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses
>  Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:18:45 -0400 (EDT)
>
>
>  Guys,
>
>  Like I said once before, if anyone cares to hear more detail on the
>  'private and personal issues' that Stan has inappropriately focused
>  on in this public forum, please contact me off-line or on the
>  phone. Some have done already. He has gotten something off his
>  chest. Simply put, there is a "World according to Stan" that is so
>  sadly distorted in this case. I'd avoid it for yourself.
>
>  It is such a waste of your time to fixate on such a trivial matters
>  like these. Let's get to the key issues. I suspect Mary Lou made
>  an excellent point of support for a payment of a surcharge,
>  royalty, or commission for products of non-GB origin that we need
>  and purchase for our fleet boats. If this is to be a sincere
>  gesture to Stan by fleet members, it should not be limited to
>  products supplied by me or anyone who happens to be a member of our
>  fleet. When we buy line, SS fixtures, sails, anchors, or any
>  equipment for our boats, this would seem to be similar
>  justification for an override, a 'loyalty' fee or tithe, if you
>  will.
>
>  Consider this :Two years ago I found it necessary to approach Dwyer
>  about replacing my spreader fixtures, distorted after many years of
>  mast stepping. We used the rear lower shroud for attachment to the
>  crane for lifting the IMF - the GB recommended method as late as
>  the '06 Annapolis show. I approached Stan three times over as many
>  months, from before that show until before the St Pete show the
>  same year, in order to purchase two fixtures at about $40 per, and
>  never received any response at all - none, nada, zippo. That seems
>  non-responsive. Now, having to go to Dwyer, is a skipper whose
>  request has been ignored somehow expected to forward a commission
>  fee to Stan? Make your own judgement on what makes sense.
>
>  If GB needs to be further underwritten and supported, maybe Stan
>  should consider making interested investors shareholder/partners in
>  GB. As 'stakeholders' in the R22 fleet, maybe this is not so far
>  fetched for some of us, although not me. Think about it. There
>  ought to be some way we can infuse GB without Stan effectively
>  having to seek donations versus legit services. If GB is in a
>  financial bind, more is needed than a loyalty fee gesture. This
>  is, no doubt, a sensitive issue for him since it could affect GB
>  ownership.
>
>  I am not aware of any manufacturer (picture any of the sailboat
>  manufacturers, even Catalina or MacGregor) who expects their
>  customers to pay homage to them for after-market sales, maintenance
>  or upgrades on their products which are not contracted by the
>  manufacturer. Is anyone aware of such an industry obligation?
>
>  A comment on my work - I am making a tiller cover for Dave, no
>  charge, BTW. I have to charge when I make other items, ie the
>  Cockpit Enclosure. I have no objection whatever if any client
>  wants to project a 10% add-on for Stan. I simply cannot establish
>  this 'side account' within my little enterprise, for tax and
>  precedent issues. My pledge to you is that you will be using the
>  absolute best product at the best cost, no exception. If I cannot
>  provide the best value for you I will tell you honestly and decline
>  the opportunity until I can, and I have done this. I'll respond
>  promptly, by cell usually (I can get to know you and your
>  priorities better), and produce with a commit to delivery and cost,
>  even if I underestimate. I will treat any work as a priority
>  custom crafted and fitted job, no assembly line mentality. I will
>  provide more than enough cost advantage to enable to you to send
>  Stan his due, but will not define the cost in such a way that
>  requires you to. It w!
>  ill be your free choice, friends. One additional point - I will
>  enjoy making your product, whatever it is, and you will enjoy using
>  it - that's just the rule. I will do well with canvas, and don't
>  think I will begin producing sailboats...
>
>  I will make a strong suggestion: Even though PR happenings, like
>  the #1 poll results, an impressive 'Good Old Boat' writeup in ~
>  '05, and the 'Sailing' p52 piece are good and free advertising,
>  some form of paid advertising seems long overdue if the GB goal is
>  increased boat orders and boat production. Many of us found the
>  R22 by sheer chance. Why put 'the bar' so low on purpose (BTW,
>  with no reference to Rummy)?
>
>  Once again, time for an aspirin...
>
>  Stan for Vice President, Rose for Ms. America!
>
>  Art
>
>
>  __________________________________________________
>  To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>  to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>  __________________________________________________
>
>-- 
>Be Yourself @ mail.com!
>Choose From 200+ Email Addresses
>Get a Free Account at www.mail.com
>
>__________________________________________________
>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>__________________________________________________