[Rhodes22-list] Loyalty Program
captainpy at comcast.net
captainpy at comcast.net
Mon Jul 27 20:35:00 EDT 2009
Inregards to the Loyalty Program; if it is not posted on GB's website, I think it would be a good idea to have it there. This would eliminate any guessing as to what the program is all about.
Deena
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Subject: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 1929, Issue 1
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: general boat's complaint (continued) (Rick)
2. Re: general boat's complaint (continued) (David Culp)
3. Re: general boat's complaint (continued) (Rick)
4. Re: Partial Mainsail (cowie)
5. Chainplate Problems (Ronald Lipton)
6. Re: general boat's complaint (continued) (Alan Robertson)
7. Re: Chainplate Problems (James Barron)
8. Re: Partial Mainsail (Leland)
9. Manasquan Inlet (loumoore at aol.com)
10. Re: Partial Mainsail (MichaelT)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 13:28:35 -0400
From: Rick <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID:
<52e9a140907261028l12b1614anca39cc24caab943c at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Stan,
Ben has a good point. We have never seen the "Loyalty/Royalty" program
spelled out and who is obligated to abide by it.
I for one, when I want to fix or improve my boat, contact you first. That's
because you always provide "free" advice, even though I didn't buy my boat
from you. If you advise me that you are the unique source for what I want,
then I will buy it from you. If not, then I'll buy it from whomever is
cheaper, more convenient, or better suits my taste. That's just consumer
freedom of choice; part of the Capitalist Manifesto.
If you have intellectual property disputes with competitors for my business,
I believe we live in a society with adequate laws to protect your rights.
And I think you have already demonstrated that. In other words, my interest
in you staying in business to provide me with "free" advice and unique parts
is adequately served without my active involvement when you have competitor
disputes.
After spending many years helping major corporations automate their customer
relationship management, here's some free advice for you. Your "free"
advice is really CRM, and CRM is a legitimate business expense. Perhaps
your accountant hasn't been taking that into consideration, adequately.
Rick
On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 8:13 PM, BenCittadino <bencittadino at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> Stan;
>
> I'm getting confused. As you know I bought a '93 Rhodes that you recycled
> last year ('08). Elton delivered it to me in NJ and my family and I have
> been having a ball with your wonderful boat. I told you I served on a
> Philip
> Rhodes-designed minesweeper (MSO 440, USS Exploit) in the early '70s so I
> feel like I've come full circle back to the sea in my "soon to be
> golden"years.
>
> Anyway, when I bought the boat I knew about what I thought was your
> loyalty/royalty program which involved using General Boats to sell my boat
> when the time came so you could recycle it again and/or earn a 5%
> commission
> on the sale.
>
> Of course, lately following the list I understand you are unhappy about Art
> making and selling a Pop-Top enclosure that competes with yours. Apparently
> you and Art had some kind of arrangement that didn't work out and that is
> an
> issue between you folks that I hope you can work out.
>
> What is confusing is, what else don't you want loyal GB people to buy from
> non-GB sources? Clearly people have gotten engines and sails from other
> places with your blessing. You installed a compass, fishfinder/depthfinder,
> and marine radio that I acquired elsewhere for me. I recently contacted you
> about getting a custom winter boat cover and you referred me elsewhere. So
> exactly what is your policy? Please make it clear in your follow-up email
> because as least as far as this rookie is concerned it isn't clear now.
> Please remember, many of us have come in late and don't know the whole
> story
> (Not an invitation to tell the whole story, just tell us what you want).
>
> Best to Rose and Elton;
>
> BenCittadino
> SV Susan Kay (93 recycled 08)
> Highlands, NJ
>
> stanleyl wrote:
> >
> > Rose and I want to thank you all for indulging GB in the use of your
> forum
> > on an issue that is so basic to GB.
> >
> > We want to thank those that take issue with our position but attempt to
> be
> > evenhanded. (If academically interested, we can provide exhibits and
> > witnesses that prove the accuracy of our facts.)
> >
> > We are empathetic with those who chafe at this sort of thing and remain
> > silent - in our younger days we probably would have done the same. It
> > was not until 50 that we adopted our tribe's slogan of "never again" and
> > took on anyone who wronged us: A policeman. A lawyer. a station wagon
> > full of nuns (just kidding about the station wagon), a giant corporation
> > to docketing at the US Supreme Court. We prevailed in all these pro se
> > actions simply because we do not complain unless the facts and logic are
> > solidly on our side - but we digress.
> >
> > And, in particular, we want to thank those who understand the logical
> side
> > of our position and offered suggestions.
> >
> >
> > Re the issue of the Loyalty/Royalty program: Its reasoning seems so
> > correct that it is hard to comprehend dissent. Those thinking us crazy
> > for such radical thinking have to sit in this chair for just one day.
> > Interestingly, dissenters enjoy products from many segments of industry
> > who have already worked out such support programs, yet these dissenters
> > seem to be drawing their own grandfather clause line as to which
> > industries should not be entitled to residuals on their efforts. Those
> > in this group have but to request and we will expand on the good sense of
> > this program. It has been emotionally gratifying seeing former members
> > of the "You must be crazy" society, when, becoming members of the "List"
> > family, seeing the light and converting.
> >
> > Re the issue of the 50 years creating a unique product now having others
> > take bites of its parts for their unilateral gain, if not resolved, will
> > come home to bite us all. ( When I walked out of the hallowed halls of
> > ole PU I vowed not to go into business because I could not stand the
> > ethics I saw, and assumed, had to go with that territory. But it was
> > pre-ordained; I ended up spending most of my life a driving capitalist.
> > And it has been a blast, for me and my partner of 60 years - because we
> > made the making of money our secondary goal. (The effects of that kind
> > of religious fervor has surprisingly turned out to be rough on our
> > opponents.) There are ways we can go to stop the taking of free bites
> of
> > the profitable parts side of GB's business::
> >
> > When we sold Venture Sailboats (Macgregor), dealers could buy sails
> > elsewhere and make an additional profit on Roger's creation at Roger's
> > expense. Roger, who graduated at the top of his class at Stamford,
> simply
> > raised the price of his boat and included sails. Being the tough
> business
> > man he is, he did it without notice and dealers had to eat their sail
> > inventories they bought elsewhere. We are slow learners but could price
> > Rhodes sales to include a part an outside seller has latched onto. Or,
> >
> > We could simply be unresponsive to boat owners who purchase parts, unique
> > to the Rhodes design, from others in competition with GB or who fail to
> > honor agreements with GB. We inherently do not like this retaliatory
> > type of solution, but it is a solution. Or
> >
> > We could simply close shop and that would close the market for
> > unauthorized parts vendors. This "cutting off ones nose" solution is
> not
> > our choice. However, not taking on rogue suppliers, eating away at the
> > life cash flow of the company, makes it an inevitable solution.
> >
> >
> > In an effort to avoid any of the above solutions, based on the thinking
> of
> > List members in this particular complaint of GB vs. Art C, we have some
> > proposals that we will present to the List next week for your appreciated
> > feedback. The pro bono time we are having to devote to the problems and
> > questions of private sale Rhodes is becoming so overwhelming (and we hate
> > to be mean spirited enough to tell them where to go) that we just can't
> > seem to manage all of this issue in one sitting.
> >
> > ss
> > __________________________________________________
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> > http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > __________________________________________________
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660048p24662931.html
> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 15:49:41 -0500
From: David Culp <dculp at hsbtx.com>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Message-ID:
<9ffb85a40907261349p29229658nc40d12f27b3540e7 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Stan:
Thank you for your insight into the business. I dare say that most sailboat
owners don't get the inside track on happenings at the factory; if the
factory is even still in business that is.
I want to comment on the loyalty/royalty program concerning the Rhodes. My
experience in boat ownership over the years is that a used boat purchaser
always spends the maximum funds set aside for the purchase. Either the
purchase price and the taxes consume the entire amount or the new owner
takes any funds left and applies them to things the boat needs. And we all
know that used boats need something all the time.
It is a bit of a sticky wicket let's say, to request from a new owner 5 % of
the purchase price be paid to GBI when they have probably spent more money
then they intended to begin with. The Rhodes 22 is the top of the scale in
22' boats and used prices are not cheap. We see it all the time on the
list... Folks are interested in the Rhodes but they are trying to purchase
it on a "Catalina" budget; so they "lurk" on the list either saving up their
cash or hoping to see a cheap boat come up for sale whereby they promptly go
off-list and complete the transaction.
You will remember in my case, that I sent GBI a check for $ 200.00 to cover
the promotional materials you sent me-but that was not 5% of the price I
paid. In the meantime, I have enjoyed the technical support that I have
received as a member of the list from the owners and from yourself. That is
worth something, even though I didn't realize it in the beginning. This
boat and this list are pretty unique to the boating world.
I propose and this will make some people on this list unhappy, in fact, very
unhappy.... An Owner's association with an annual fee. For that annual fee,
you have got to provide something however. Which is another problem with a
royalty fee upfront; people always need to feel that they are getting
something for their money. In this case, for the annual association fee:
Admission to the list
Technical support either from members or the factory
Availability and a price list of parts, sails, etc. that is kept up to date
so I can purchase it from you if I need something.
Except for the parts and prices, this is pretty much what we are doing
already. Maybe you could come up with some member specials on pricing from
time to time for sails or parts or write an occasional article that only
members would get. I don't want to burden you with a bunch of extra work,
but there needs to be something unique about membership. In this way, the
new owner would feel they are getting something and it would generate
revenue for you over the longer term. As part of the membership, if we
agree to give you 5% of the selling price when we sell, then I don't have a
problem with it; especially if the list helps my estate sell the boat. I'll
even stipulate it in my will. I figure if I owe a "loyalty fee", it is
probably to the list members who have taken their time and been so helpful
over the years. If paying you a "royalty" fee helps keep GBI in business
then that helps them and you. As a seller, if I pay 5% then it gets my
buyer on the list free for two years. Then he/she can do the responsible
thing and start paying their own royalty/loyalty dues.
The other situation which started the discussion in the beginning has to do
with after-market products or other parts unique to the Rhodes. If a member
has an after-market item to sell to the list which is unique to the Rhodes
and/or would normally be available from GBI for sale, then he/she goes
through you. They can advertise it and discuss it; but I buy it from you
after you have added your mark up or it cannot be advertised on the member's
list by another member or by a third party. Simple as that. They are a
supplier of General Boats and you are the distributor to me. Obviously, the
list membership information is kept proprietary to prevent direct marketing
by a third party. If a member tries to go behind your back... we can take
care of that. If something comes up for sale on the open-market that is
unique to the Rhodes 22 and there are legal issues, then that is a
discussion for lawyers and not for this forum.
Right now MJM is administering the list. I think he or whomever takes on
those duties gets their membership free.
I hope you will take these suggestions under advisement and if it is of
interest, let us know what you think the annual membership fee should be.
For everyone else, let the flaming begin.... But just keep in mind what the
purpose is here. Trying to come up with something palatable to help GBI now
and us in the long run.
David
PS:
Other thoughts: The Rhodes 22 website is "technically" one of the best I
have ever seen as far as the boat information goes. However, it needs some
polish to be a more effective marketing tool. More timely information and
more emphasis on the recycle program and availability of used boats comes to
mind since new boat sales are down. Also, have you ever considered a new
"entry level" boat without all the bells and whistles which someone could
purchase at a bit lower price? You've talked about a racer before. Could
you come up with something without having to have new molds-marketed as a
"Sport" Rhodes 22? Lower the interior weight, put a standard mast and
racing sails on it and a spinaker. Catalina has a "sport model" and it does
pretty well I think. Just some ideas I have batted around. dc
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 13:46:52 -0400
From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID: <038FA83D95464CCFB609CA722206B2D8 at rhodes>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Rose and I want to thank you all for indulging GB in the use of your forum
on an issue that is so basic to GB.
We want to thank those that take issue with our position but attempt to be
evenhanded. (If academically interested, we can provide exhibits and
witnesses that prove the accuracy of our facts.)
We are empathetic with those who chafe at this sort of thing and remain
silent - in our younger days we probably would have done the same. It was
not until 50 that we adopted our tribe's slogan of "never again" and took
on anyone who wronged us: A policeman. A lawyer. a station wagon full of
nuns (just kidding about the station wagon), a giant corporation to
docketing at the US Supreme Court. We prevailed in all these pro se
actions simply because we do not complain unless the facts and logic are
solidly on our side - but we digress.
And, in particular, we want to thank those who understand the logical side
of our position and offered suggestions.
Re the issue of the Loyalty/Royalty program: Its reasoning seems so
correct that it is hard to comprehend dissent. Those thinking us crazy for
such radical thinking have to sit in this chair for just one day.
Interestingly, dissenters enjoy products from many segments of industry who
have already worked out such support programs, yet these dissenters seem to
be drawing their own grandfather clause line as to which industries should
not be entitled to residuals on their efforts. Those in this group have
but to request and we will expand on the good sense of this program. It
has been emotionally gratifying seeing former members of the "You must be
crazy" society, when, becoming members of the "List" family, seeing the
light and converting.
Re the issue of the 50 years creating a unique product now having others
take bites of its parts for their unilateral gain, if not resolved, will
come home to bite us all. ( When I walked out of the hallowed halls of ole
PU I vowed not to go into business because I could not stand the ethics I
saw, and assumed, had to go with that territory. But it was pre-ordained; I
ended up spending most of my life a driving capitalist. And it has been a
blast, for me and my partner of 60 years - because we made the making of
money our secondary goal. (The effects of that kind of religious fervor
has surprisingly turned out to be rough on our opponents.) There are ways
we can go to stop the taking of free bites of the profitable parts side of
GB's business::
When we sold Venture Sailboats (Macgregor), dealers could buy sails
elsewhere and make an additional profit on Roger's creation at Roger's
expense. Roger, who graduated at the top of his class at Stamford, simply
raised the price of his boat and included sails. Being the tough business
man he is, he did it without notice and dealers had to eat their sail
inventories they bought elsewhere. We are slow learners but could price
Rhodes sales to include a part an outside seller has latched onto. Or,
We could simply be unresponsive to boat owners who purchase parts, unique to
the Rhodes design, from others in competition with GB or who fail to honor
agreements with GB. We inherently do not like this retaliatory type of
solution, but it is a solution. Or
We could simply close shop and that would close the market for unauthorized
parts vendors. This "cutting off ones nose" solution is not our choice.
However, not taking on rogue suppliers, eating away at the life cash flow
of the company, makes it an inevitable solution.
In an effort to avoid any of the above solutions, based on the thinking of
List members in this particular complaint of GB vs. Art C, we have some
proposals that we will present to the List next week for your appreciated
feedback. The pro bono time we are having to devote to the problems and
questions of private sale Rhodes is becoming so overwhelming (and we hate to
be mean spirited enough to tell them where to go) that we just can't seem to
manage all of this issue in one sitting.
ss
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 17:28:36 -0400
From: Rick <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID:
<52e9a140907261428v6feebf53l4e923711b987ec30 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
David,
When I was considering buying my R22, the PO said, "I can give you the home
phone number of the guy who makes the boat and he will talk to you at any
time." Of course, that tilted me to buy his boat and subsequently buy many
things from Stan.
Are you suggesting Stan discontinues this attractive offering in the
shrunken marketplace for pocket cruiser sailboats? I think it will just
turn customers toward high volume boats where technical information and
spare parts are readily available.
Rick
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 4:49 PM, David Culp <dculp at hsbtx.com> wrote:
> Stan:
>
> Thank you for your insight into the business. I dare say that most
> sailboat
> owners don't get the inside track on happenings at the factory; if the
> factory is even still in business that is.
>
> I want to comment on the loyalty/royalty program concerning the Rhodes. My
> experience in boat ownership over the years is that a used boat purchaser
> always spends the maximum funds set aside for the purchase. Either the
> purchase price and the taxes consume the entire amount or the new owner
> takes any funds left and applies them to things the boat needs. And we all
> know that used boats need something all the time.
>
> It is a bit of a sticky wicket let's say, to request from a new owner 5 %
> of
> the purchase price be paid to GBI when they have probably spent more money
> then they intended to begin with. The Rhodes 22 is the top of the scale in
> 22' boats and used prices are not cheap. We see it all the time on the
> list... Folks are interested in the Rhodes but they are trying to purchase
> it on a "Catalina" budget; so they "lurk" on the list either saving up
> their
> cash or hoping to see a cheap boat come up for sale whereby they promptly
> go
> off-list and complete the transaction.
>
> You will remember in my case, that I sent GBI a check for $ 200.00 to cover
> the promotional materials you sent me-but that was not 5% of the price I
> paid. In the meantime, I have enjoyed the technical support that I have
> received as a member of the list from the owners and from yourself. That
> is
> worth something, even though I didn't realize it in the beginning. This
> boat and this list are pretty unique to the boating world.
>
> I propose and this will make some people on this list unhappy, in fact,
> very
> unhappy.... An Owner's association with an annual fee. For that annual
> fee,
> you have got to provide something however. Which is another problem with a
> royalty fee upfront; people always need to feel that they are getting
> something for their money. In this case, for the annual association fee:
>
> Admission to the list
> Technical support either from members or the factory
> Availability and a price list of parts, sails, etc. that is kept up to date
> so I can purchase it from you if I need something.
>
>
> Except for the parts and prices, this is pretty much what we are doing
> already. Maybe you could come up with some member specials on pricing from
> time to time for sails or parts or write an occasional article that only
> members would get. I don't want to burden you with a bunch of extra work,
> but there needs to be something unique about membership. In this way, the
> new owner would feel they are getting something and it would generate
> revenue for you over the longer term. As part of the membership, if we
> agree to give you 5% of the selling price when we sell, then I don't have a
> problem with it; especially if the list helps my estate sell the boat.
> I'll
> even stipulate it in my will. I figure if I owe a "loyalty fee", it is
> probably to the list members who have taken their time and been so helpful
> over the years. If paying you a "royalty" fee helps keep GBI in business
> then that helps them and you. As a seller, if I pay 5% then it gets my
> buyer on the list free for two years. Then he/she can do the responsible
> thing and start paying their own royalty/loyalty dues.
>
> The other situation which started the discussion in the beginning has to do
> with after-market products or other parts unique to the Rhodes. If a
> member
> has an after-market item to sell to the list which is unique to the Rhodes
> and/or would normally be available from GBI for sale, then he/she goes
> through you. They can advertise it and discuss it; but I buy it from you
> after you have added your mark up or it cannot be advertised on the
> member's
> list by another member or by a third party. Simple as that. They are a
> supplier of General Boats and you are the distributor to me. Obviously,
> the
> list membership information is kept proprietary to prevent direct marketing
> by a third party. If a member tries to go behind your back... we can take
> care of that. If something comes up for sale on the open-market that is
> unique to the Rhodes 22 and there are legal issues, then that is a
> discussion for lawyers and not for this forum.
>
> Right now MJM is administering the list. I think he or whomever takes on
> those duties gets their membership free.
>
> I hope you will take these suggestions under advisement and if it is of
> interest, let us know what you think the annual membership fee should be.
>
> For everyone else, let the flaming begin.... But just keep in mind what
> the
> purpose is here. Trying to come up with something palatable to help GBI
> now
> and us in the long run.
>
> David
>
> PS:
>
> Other thoughts: The Rhodes 22 website is "technically" one of the best I
> have ever seen as far as the boat information goes. However, it needs some
> polish to be a more effective marketing tool. More timely information and
> more emphasis on the recycle program and availability of used boats comes
> to
> mind since new boat sales are down. Also, have you ever considered a new
> "entry level" boat without all the bells and whistles which someone could
> purchase at a bit lower price? You've talked about a racer before. Could
> you come up with something without having to have new molds-marketed as a
> "Sport" Rhodes 22? Lower the interior weight, put a standard mast and
> racing sails on it and a spinaker. Catalina has a "sport model" and it
> does
> pretty well I think. Just some ideas I have batted around. dc
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 13:46:52 -0400
> From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Message-ID: <038FA83D95464CCFB609CA722206B2D8 at rhodes>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Rose and I want to thank you all for indulging GB in the use of your forum
> on an issue that is so basic to GB.
>
> We want to thank those that take issue with our position but attempt to be
> evenhanded. (If academically interested, we can provide exhibits and
> witnesses that prove the accuracy of our facts.)
>
> We are empathetic with those who chafe at this sort of thing and remain
> silent - in our younger days we probably would have done the same. It was
> not until 50 that we adopted our tribe's slogan of "never again" and took
> on anyone who wronged us: A policeman. A lawyer. a station wagon full of
> nuns (just kidding about the station wagon), a giant corporation to
> docketing at the US Supreme Court. We prevailed in all these pro se
> actions simply because we do not complain unless the facts and logic are
> solidly on our side - but we digress.
>
> And, in particular, we want to thank those who understand the logical side
> of our position and offered suggestions.
>
>
> Re the issue of the Loyalty/Royalty program: Its reasoning seems so
> correct that it is hard to comprehend dissent. Those thinking us crazy for
> such radical thinking have to sit in this chair for just one day.
> Interestingly, dissenters enjoy products from many segments of industry who
> have already worked out such support programs, yet these dissenters seem to
> be drawing their own grandfather clause line as to which industries should
> not be entitled to residuals on their efforts. Those in this group have
> but to request and we will expand on the good sense of this program. It
> has been emotionally gratifying seeing former members of the "You must be
> crazy" society, when, becoming members of the "List" family, seeing the
> light and converting.
>
> Re the issue of the 50 years creating a unique product now having others
> take bites of its parts for their unilateral gain, if not resolved, will
> come home to bite us all. ( When I walked out of the hallowed halls of
> ole
> PU I vowed not to go into business because I could not stand the ethics I
> saw, and assumed, had to go with that territory. But it was pre-ordained;
> I
> ended up spending most of my life a driving capitalist. And it has been a
> blast, for me and my partner of 60 years - because we made the making of
> money our secondary goal. (The effects of that kind of religious fervor
> has surprisingly turned out to be rough on our opponents.) There are ways
> we can go to stop the taking of free bites of the profitable parts side of
> GB's business::
>
> When we sold Venture Sailboats (Macgregor), dealers could buy sails
> elsewhere and make an additional profit on Roger's creation at Roger's
> expense. Roger, who graduated at the top of his class at Stamford, simply
> raised the price of his boat and included sails. Being the tough business
> man he is, he did it without notice and dealers had to eat their sail
> inventories they bought elsewhere. We are slow learners but could price
> Rhodes sales to include a part an outside seller has latched onto. Or,
>
> We could simply be unresponsive to boat owners who purchase parts, unique
> to
> the Rhodes design, from others in competition with GB or who fail to honor
> agreements with GB. We inherently do not like this retaliatory type of
> solution, but it is a solution. Or
>
> We could simply close shop and that would close the market for unauthorized
> parts vendors. This "cutting off ones nose" solution is not our choice.
> However, not taking on rogue suppliers, eating away at the life cash flow
> of the company, makes it an inevitable solution.
>
>
> In an effort to avoid any of the above solutions, based on the thinking of
> List members in this particular complaint of GB vs. Art C, we have some
> proposals that we will present to the List next week for your appreciated
> feedback. The pro bono time we are having to devote to the problems and
> questions of private sale Rhodes is becoming so overwhelming (and we hate
> to
> be mean spirited enough to tell them where to go) that we just can't seem
> to
> manage all of this issue in one sitting.
>
> ss
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 16:00:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: cowie <ccowie at cowieassociates.com>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Partial Mainsail
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Message-ID: <24671340.post at talk.nabble.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
lee
did you go sailing Saturday? I sailed from hh north to oxford friday and
back to hh north Saturday. The winds picked up quickly Saturday afternoon
to about 23 kts in the middle of the bay. The wind wouldn't have been so
bad but the three foot surf hade runing for home. I need to rename my boat
either fearless or stupid. I have some photos and sketches that I hope to
post along with a narrative of my journey.
Leland wrote:
>
> Michael,
>
> You're a fast learner. The boat is easier to sail in less wind and it's
> much easier to furl the sails back in, but you'll want to get all the
> experience you can in challenging conditions; safe but challenging.
>
> As you discovered, running the sheets between the stays makes a
> significant difference. With the poptop up and a little practice, they're
> very easy to change from the cabin on the windward side of the boat where
> there's no tension on the sheets.
>
> Yesterday on the Chesapeake the wind forecast went from 2 mph to 16 mph in
> 3 hours. By the time I got out the true wind was a little over 8 knots.
> Within an hour some apparent wind readings were over 15 knots on a close
> reach but true wind was probably about 11-12 knots the rest of the day.
>
> Thinking about you and your wife's anti-heel preference, I lowered the
> boom and reefed the main to 60% with the Genoa at about 50% (halfway to
> the mast). Sheets were run between the shrouds and the board was up. On
> a close reach of about 50 degrees I was going 2.5 knots. Chop was about
> 1-2 feet. I let out the main to about 75% and unfurled the Genoa to 100%.
> Sails were then unbalanced with a little too much Genoa (or too little
> main) and it pushed the bow of the boat away from the wind. Speed was 3.5
> knots. I came off the wind to about a 60-65 degree close reach and speed
> was 4.5 knots. Most important the entire time the heel was less than 10
> degrees with my weight centered on the boat (no railmeat). I was on a
> starboard tack so I think some of the heel was the weight of the engine.
>
> Like you I really enjoy sailing with the poptop up and rarely sail with it
> down. The wind is stronger at the top of your mast than the bottom, so
> your performance is probably always improved with the boom down unless
> you're in very light winds.
>
> Lee
>
>
>
> MichaelT wrote:
>>
>> I went out today to try a few of the suggestions made. I think today was
>> one of my best sailing days.
>> Wind was about 9-12 mph. I reefed the mainsail to about 3/4 vs 1/2. This
>> time I let out the jib approx 1/3 about 1-2 ft from the stays. The boat
>> generally stayed flat. The boat did heel slightly when the wind gusted
>> 12+. I also had the jib sheets between the stays and I was able to get an
>> improved closed haul heading better than when the jib sheets were outside
>> of the stays.
>>
>> It was a beautiful time and maybe my best day and it felt like I took it
>> to hull speed.
>>
>> While I've never lowered down the boom, I will someday try just to
>> experience the effect. My family is very happy w/ the pop-top up and
>> could how constraining it would be w/ the pop-top down and the danger of
>> being smacked by the boom.
>>
>> I made a connection w/ sternway when I was backing out my slip and then
>> it popped that when going backwards on a tack on a possible stall that
>> reversing the tiller to windward may do the job. This too will be another
>> trick I can try and see if I can judge in the moment of feeling that I'm
>> going backwards.
>>
>> Thanks all,
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> Leland wrote:
>>>
>>> Michael,
>>>
>>> You're getting lots of good advice.
>>>
>>> You'll have a little less heel with the board up. From the Rhodes
>>> Owners' Site under FAQs under Rhodes vs. Com-Pac vs. Precisions: 5.
>>> Retract the centerboard part way in a big breeze. The board is
>>> intentionally modest in weight, and does not contribute significantly to
>>> stability up or down. Raising the board part way will reduce both heel
>>> and weather helm.
>>>
>>> The quote refers to Precisions. If I raise the board all the way on my
>>> Rhodes it usually only reduces heel by about 3 degrees but your wife may
>>> appreciate it.
>>>
>>> In an 8-10 knot wind, lowering the boom will reduce heel also.
>>>
>>> As Dave mentioned the boat sails better with two sails. For the amount
>>> of wind you described you probably weren't going fast enough to tack.
>>> Come off the wind enough to get up some speed and you'll then be able to
>>> turn her sharply into the wind.
>>>
>>> When I first got my Rhodes I typically had too much sail out. You were
>>> wise to be conservative in your sail plan, but without any headsail and
>>> so little main you probably couldn't get enough speed to tack even if
>>> you had come off the wind. Last week I was in a 12 knot wind. On a
>>> close reach with balanced sails with the board up and my 190 lbs of rail
>>> meat, I had less than 20 degrees of heel with the boom up and the main
>>> reefed to 80%. With the boom down I had the same heel with 100% main.
>>> I have my mainsail furling line marked for reefs at 60% and 80%. If I
>>> have to reef the tiny little main beyond 60%, it's too windy for me
>>> (over 20 knots) and I go home.
>>>
>>> Good luck!
>>>
>>> Lee
>>> 1986 Rhodes22 At Ease
>>> Kent Island, MD
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> david.walker5 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Stephen,
>>>>
>>>> Tacking with the jib, especially very light or heavy wind can be
>>>> challenging
>>>> too. The problem is the jib is very powerfull and it wants to push the
>>>> boat
>>>> away from the tack. One technique that has worked for me is something
>>>> I
>>>> borrowed from sailing a square rigger. When you push the tiller to
>>>> lee,
>>>> loosen the jibe immediately, but do not let the sheet fly.(for those
>>>> interested its called scandalizing the jib) This reduces the drive of
>>>> the
>>>> sail and allows it to turn up wind. Just as the bow comes into the
>>>> wind,
>>>> tighten the sheet a little. The wind will then backwind the jib and
>>>> push the
>>>> bow the rest of the way onto the new tack. As you come through the
>>>> wind, the
>>>> wind on the new tack will push the sail across to the new tack. In
>>>> really
>>>> heavy wind you may end up "in stays" or headed into the wind and start
>>>> to be
>>>> pushed backwards. In that case as I said in an earlier post, shift the
>>>> rudder (tiller to windward) and the boat will back onto the new tack
>>>> and
>>>> start to sail.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David Walker
>>>>
>>>> www.davidwalkerphotography.com
>>>>
>>>> Event Specialists
>>>>
>>>> 781-639-2707 Office
>>>> 781-718-8690 Cell
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Stephen Staum" <staum at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 3:32 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Partial Mainsail
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Michael,
>>>>> I too have a wife who likes to sail flat. I have an '87 w a 184 per
>>>>> cent genoa. I usually start w 1/2 of the genny as the jib really
>>>>> powers this boat. Even w the full main out (alone) u will struggle to
>>>>> come about. Also, if u have the full jib out in light winds, it can be
>>>>> very difficult 2 get the jib 2 come across when coming about. It is
>>>>> often easier 2 jibe or roll up 1/2 the jib b4 come about is started.
>>>>> Enjoy!
>>>>> Stephen Staum
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 24, 2009, at 12:47 PM, MichaelT <mticse at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Went out with the family on Sunday and wanted to play it safe.
>>>>>> Drew the IMF mainsail approx halfway on the boom (the letter R on
>>>>>> the sail
>>>>>> wasn't showing).
>>>>>> Wanted to keep things simple and used no jib. Centerboard was down
>>>>>> all the
>>>>>> way.
>>>>>> The boat stayed flat as a pancake which was the desired effect.
>>>>>> My wife wants no heeling whatsoever. Problem I had was I couldn't
>>>>>> tack.
>>>>>> It even had a hard time getting into irons and just couldn't cutover.
>>>>>> The only way I could change direction was to spin 2/3's around in a
>>>>>> jibe.
>>>>>> I didn't want to experiment and let out more sail so we just enjoyed
>>>>>> sailing
>>>>>> the next hour like this.
>>>>>> Is this normal behaviour? What am I doing wrong?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Partial-Mainsail-tp24647946p24647946.html
>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Partial-Mainsail-tp24647946p24671340.html
Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 18:15:34 -0500
From: Ronald Lipton <ronald.lipton at gmail.com>
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Chainplate Problems
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID:
<89f2ded70907261615u4f6de6bfu7727cb06c97ac638 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
After a windy sail with my daughter this morning I noticed that the
starboard aft chainplate
is beginning to pull out of it's support. The chainplate appears to have
pulled up
about 1/4" and pulled the cover and two screws out. I did not have time to
look at
the problem in detail, we had to leave the boat fairly quickly. I just
tried to tape it over enough to prevent further water infiltration.
Has anyone had a similar problem? How are these chainplates attached to the
boat. It
looks like I would have to cut through the cabin liner between the windows
to get to the
chainplate. is that correct. Any help or advice would be appreciated.
Ron
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 20:54:38 -0400
From: "Alan Robertson" <bigal_61 at msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID: <COL119-DS15F87A546231CD5081C0A2FC140 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Fellow Rhodies:
Stan and Elton have been so good to me re. parts sales and tech support over the past 26 seasons of our Rhodes ownership that I'd gladly pay annual dues to GB, say $25+ to keep the service going. For years Stan kept a poster picture of our boat I sent him in the office vestibule and I wonder if he'd like pictures of all our boats so a montage could be made of them. Impressive for Eden factory visitors to see and of course for display at the the boat shows?
Alan "Doc" Robertson
----- Original Message -----
From: David Culp<mailto:dculp at hsbtx.com>
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
Stan:
Thank you for your insight into the business. I dare say that most sailboat
owners don't get the inside track on happenings at the factory; if the
factory is even still in business that is.
I want to comment on the loyalty/royalty program concerning the Rhodes. My
experience in boat ownership over the years is that a used boat purchaser
always spends the maximum funds set aside for the purchase. Either the
purchase price and the taxes consume the entire amount or the new owner
takes any funds left and applies them to things the boat needs. And we all
know that used boats need something all the time.
It is a bit of a sticky wicket let's say, to request from a new owner 5 % of
the purchase price be paid to GBI when they have probably spent more money
then they intended to begin with. The Rhodes 22 is the top of the scale in
22' boats and used prices are not cheap. We see it all the time on the
list... Folks are interested in the Rhodes but they are trying to purchase
it on a "Catalina" budget; so they "lurk" on the list either saving up their
cash or hoping to see a cheap boat come up for sale whereby they promptly go
off-list and complete the transaction.
You will remember in my case, that I sent GBI a check for $ 200.00 to cover
the promotional materials you sent me-but that was not 5% of the price I
paid. In the meantime, I have enjoyed the technical support that I have
received as a member of the list from the owners and from yourself. That is
worth something, even though I didn't realize it in the beginning. This
boat and this list are pretty unique to the boating world.
I propose and this will make some people on this list unhappy, in fact, very
unhappy.... An Owner's association with an annual fee. For that annual fee,
you have got to provide something however. Which is another problem with a
royalty fee upfront; people always need to feel that they are getting
something for their money. In this case, for the annual association fee:
Admission to the list
Technical support either from members or the factory
Availability and a price list of parts, sails, etc. that is kept up to date
so I can purchase it from you if I need something.
Except for the parts and prices, this is pretty much what we are doing
already. Maybe you could come up with some member specials on pricing from
time to time for sails or parts or write an occasional article that only
members would get. I don't want to burden you with a bunch of extra work,
but there needs to be something unique about membership. In this way, the
new owner would feel they are getting something and it would generate
revenue for you over the longer term. As part of the membership, if we
agree to give you 5% of the selling price when we sell, then I don't have a
problem with it; especially if the list helps my estate sell the boat. I'll
even stipulate it in my will. I figure if I owe a "loyalty fee", it is
probably to the list members who have taken their time and been so helpful
over the years. If paying you a "royalty" fee helps keep GBI in business
then that helps them and you. As a seller, if I pay 5% then it gets my
buyer on the list free for two years. Then he/she can do the responsible
thing and start paying their own royalty/loyalty dues.
The other situation which started the discussion in the beginning has to do
with after-market products or other parts unique to the Rhodes. If a member
has an after-market item to sell to the list which is unique to the Rhodes
and/or would normally be available from GBI for sale, then he/she goes
through you. They can advertise it and discuss it; but I buy it from you
after you have added your mark up or it cannot be advertised on the member's
list by another member or by a third party. Simple as that. They are a
supplier of General Boats and you are the distributor to me. Obviously, the
list membership information is kept proprietary to prevent direct marketing
by a third party. If a member tries to go behind your back... we can take
care of that. If something comes up for sale on the open-market that is
unique to the Rhodes 22 and there are legal issues, then that is a
discussion for lawyers and not for this forum.
Right now MJM is administering the list. I think he or whomever takes on
those duties gets their membership free.
I hope you will take these suggestions under advisement and if it is of
interest, let us know what you think the annual membership fee should be.
For everyone else, let the flaming begin.... But just keep in mind what the
purpose is here. Trying to come up with something palatable to help GBI now
and us in the long run.
David
PS:
Other thoughts: The Rhodes 22 website is "technically" one of the best I
have ever seen as far as the boat information goes. However, it needs some
polish to be a more effective marketing tool. More timely information and
more emphasis on the recycle program and availability of used boats comes to
mind since new boat sales are down. Also, have you ever considered a new
"entry level" boat without all the bells and whistles which someone could
purchase at a bit lower price? You've talked about a racer before. Could
you come up with something without having to have new molds-marketed as a
"Sport" Rhodes 22? Lower the interior weight, put a standard mast and
racing sails on it and a spinaker. Catalina has a "sport model" and it does
pretty well I think. Just some ideas I have batted around. dc
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 13:46:52 -0400
From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com<mailto:stan at rhodes22.com>>
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>>
Message-ID: <038FA83D95464CCFB609CA722206B2D8 at rhodes<mailto:038FA83D95464CCFB609CA722206B2D8 at rhodes>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Rose and I want to thank you all for indulging GB in the use of your forum
on an issue that is so basic to GB.
We want to thank those that take issue with our position but attempt to be
evenhanded. (If academically interested, we can provide exhibits and
witnesses that prove the accuracy of our facts.)
We are empathetic with those who chafe at this sort of thing and remain
silent - in our younger days we probably would have done the same. It was
not until 50 that we adopted our tribe's slogan of "never again" and took
on anyone who wronged us: A policeman. A lawyer. a station wagon full of
nuns (just kidding about the station wagon), a giant corporation to
docketing at the US Supreme Court. We prevailed in all these pro se
actions simply because we do not complain unless the facts and logic are
solidly on our side - but we digress.
And, in particular, we want to thank those who understand the logical side
of our position and offered suggestions.
Re the issue of the Loyalty/Royalty program: Its reasoning seems so
correct that it is hard to comprehend dissent. Those thinking us crazy for
such radical thinking have to sit in this chair for just one day.
Interestingly, dissenters enjoy products from many segments of industry who
have already worked out such support programs, yet these dissenters seem to
be drawing their own grandfather clause line as to which industries should
not be entitled to residuals on their efforts. Those in this group have
but to request and we will expand on the good sense of this program. It
has been emotionally gratifying seeing former members of the "You must be
crazy" society, when, becoming members of the "List" family, seeing the
light and converting.
Re the issue of the 50 years creating a unique product now having others
take bites of its parts for their unilateral gain, if not resolved, will
come home to bite us all. ( When I walked out of the hallowed halls of ole
PU I vowed not to go into business because I could not stand the ethics I
saw, and assumed, had to go with that territory. But it was pre-ordained; I
ended up spending most of my life a driving capitalist. And it has been a
blast, for me and my partner of 60 years - because we made the making of
money our secondary goal. (The effects of that kind of religious fervor
has surprisingly turned out to be rough on our opponents.) There are ways
we can go to stop the taking of free bites of the profitable parts side of
GB's business::
When we sold Venture Sailboats (Macgregor), dealers could buy sails
elsewhere and make an additional profit on Roger's creation at Roger's
expense. Roger, who graduated at the top of his class at Stamford, simply
raised the price of his boat and included sails. Being the tough business
man he is, he did it without notice and dealers had to eat their sail
inventories they bought elsewhere. We are slow learners but could price
Rhodes sales to include a part an outside seller has latched onto. Or,
We could simply be unresponsive to boat owners who purchase parts, unique to
the Rhodes design, from others in competition with GB or who fail to honor
agreements with GB. We inherently do not like this retaliatory type of
solution, but it is a solution. Or
We could simply close shop and that would close the market for unauthorized
parts vendors. This "cutting off ones nose" solution is not our choice.
However, not taking on rogue suppliers, eating away at the life cash flow
of the company, makes it an inevitable solution.
In an effort to avoid any of the above solutions, based on the thinking of
List members in this particular complaint of GB vs. Art C, we have some
proposals that we will present to the List next week for your appreciated
feedback. The pro bono time we are having to devote to the problems and
questions of private sale Rhodes is becoming so overwhelming (and we hate to
be mean spirited enough to tell them where to go) that we just can't seem to
manage all of this issue in one sitting.
ss
__________________________________________________
To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list<http://www.rhodes22.org/list>
__________________________________________________
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 21:21:14 -0400
From: James Barron <jbarron1 at cinci.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Chainplate Problems
To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID: <01CA0E37.02634210.jbarron1 at cinci.rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Ron:
We had a similar problem last month, and got a helpful response from Mary Lou Troy, copied here:
__________________________________
"Looks like your chainplate is no longer properly attached. Hopefully
someone with some experience with this will speak up. I do remember
it being discussed on the list so a search of the archives might turn
up something. I found this one:
http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2008-August/053374.html
and this one
http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2007-June/041943.html
and didn't look any further. There's probably more. I did a Google
search for: chainplate site:rhodes22.org
Once you find a relevant message you can go to that month in archives
at Rhodes22.org and see the entire discussion.
Mary Lou
1991 R22 Fretless
Rock Hall MD"
______________________________________
I searched through the archives for other information or ideas, but these seemed to be the best. I have
not yet attempted to repair this.
Jim Barron
1996 R22 recycled 2007
S/V Puffin
Rocky Fork, Ohio
-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Lipton
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 7:16 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Chainplate Problems
After a windy sail with my daughter this morning I noticed that the
starboard aft chainplate
is beginning to pull out of it's support. The chainplate appears to have
pulled up
about 1/4" and pulled the cover and two screws out. I did not have time to
look at
the problem in detail, we had to leave the boat fairly quickly. I just
tried to tape it over enough to prevent further water infiltration.
Has anyone had a similar problem? How are these chainplates attached to the
boat. It
looks like I would have to cut through the cabin liner between the windows
to get to the
chainplate. is that correct. Any help or advice would be appreciated.
Ron
__________________________________________________
To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
__________________________________________________
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 06:06:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Leland <LKUHN at cnmc.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Partial Mainsail
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Message-ID: <24680385.post at talk.nabble.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Chris,
That's the problem with you cruisers. You start out in nice weather and
when the crap hits the fan you're somewhere out in the middle of the
Chesapeake. I had Kent Island blocking some of the wind but I can imagine
what it was like out in the Bay.
Someone (probably Stan) said at 28 knots you can no longer make headway.
I'd have trouble making headway with my motor in that strong of a wind.
I told you earlier that we normally don't get a lot of wind around here in
the summer--must have something to do with global warming.
Lee
cowie wrote:
>
> lee
> did you go sailing Saturday? I sailed from hh north to oxford friday and
> back to hh north Saturday. The winds picked up quickly Saturday afternoon
> to about 23 kts in the middle of the bay. The wind wouldn't have been so
> bad but the three foot surf hade runing for home. I need to rename my
> boat either fearless or stupid. I have some photos and sketches that I
> hope to post along with a narrative of my journey.
>
>
> Leland wrote:
>>
>> Michael,
>>
>> You're a fast learner. The boat is easier to sail in less wind and it's
>> much easier to furl the sails back in, but you'll want to get all the
>> experience you can in challenging conditions; safe but challenging.
>>
>> As you discovered, running the sheets between the stays makes a
>> significant difference. With the poptop up and a little practice,
>> they're very easy to change from the cabin on the windward side of the
>> boat where there's no tension on the sheets.
>>
>> Yesterday on the Chesapeake the wind forecast went from 2 mph to 16 mph
>> in 3 hours. By the time I got out the true wind was a little over 8
>> knots. Within an hour some apparent wind readings were over 15 knots on
>> a close reach but true wind was probably about 11-12 knots the rest of
>> the day.
>>
>> Thinking about you and your wife's anti-heel preference, I lowered the
>> boom and reefed the main to 60% with the Genoa at about 50% (halfway to
>> the mast). Sheets were run between the shrouds and the board was up. On
>> a close reach of about 50 degrees I was going 2.5 knots. Chop was about
>> 1-2 feet. I let out the main to about 75% and unfurled the Genoa to
>> 100%. Sails were then unbalanced with a little too much Genoa (or too
>> little main) and it pushed the bow of the boat away from the wind. Speed
>> was 3.5 knots. I came off the wind to about a 60-65 degree close reach
>> and speed was 4.5 knots. Most important the entire time the heel was
>> less than 10 degrees with my weight centered on the boat (no railmeat).
>> I was on a starboard tack so I think some of the heel was the weight of
>> the engine.
>>
>> Like you I really enjoy sailing with the poptop up and rarely sail with
>> it down. The wind is stronger at the top of your mast than the bottom,
>> so your performance is probably always improved with the boom down unless
>> you're in very light winds.
>>
>> Lee
>>
>>
>>
>> MichaelT wrote:
>>>
>>> I went out today to try a few of the suggestions made. I think today was
>>> one of my best sailing days.
>>> Wind was about 9-12 mph. I reefed the mainsail to about 3/4 vs 1/2. This
>>> time I let out the jib approx 1/3 about 1-2 ft from the stays. The boat
>>> generally stayed flat. The boat did heel slightly when the wind gusted
>>> 12+. I also had the jib sheets between the stays and I was able to get
>>> an improved closed haul heading better than when the jib sheets were
>>> outside of the stays.
>>>
>>> It was a beautiful time and maybe my best day and it felt like I took it
>>> to hull speed.
>>>
>>> While I've never lowered down the boom, I will someday try just to
>>> experience the effect. My family is very happy w/ the pop-top up and
>>> could how constraining it would be w/ the pop-top down and the danger of
>>> being smacked by the boom.
>>>
>>> I made a connection w/ sternway when I was backing out my slip and then
>>> it popped that when going backwards on a tack on a possible stall that
>>> reversing the tiller to windward may do the job. This too will be
>>> another trick I can try and see if I can judge in the moment of feeling
>>> that I'm going backwards.
>>>
>>> Thanks all,
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>> Leland wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Michael,
>>>>
>>>> You're getting lots of good advice.
>>>>
>>>> You'll have a little less heel with the board up. From the Rhodes
>>>> Owners' Site under FAQs under Rhodes vs. Com-Pac vs. Precisions: 5.
>>>> Retract the centerboard part way in a big breeze. The board is
>>>> intentionally modest in weight, and does not contribute significantly
>>>> to stability up or down. Raising the board part way will reduce both
>>>> heel and weather helm.
>>>>
>>>> The quote refers to Precisions. If I raise the board all the way on my
>>>> Rhodes it usually only reduces heel by about 3 degrees but your wife
>>>> may appreciate it.
>>>>
>>>> In an 8-10 knot wind, lowering the boom will reduce heel also.
>>>>
>>>> As Dave mentioned the boat sails better with two sails. For the amount
>>>> of wind you described you probably weren't going fast enough to tack.
>>>> Come off the wind enough to get up some speed and you'll then be able
>>>> to turn her sharply into the wind.
>>>>
>>>> When I first got my Rhodes I typically had too much sail out. You were
>>>> wise to be conservative in your sail plan, but without any headsail and
>>>> so little main you probably couldn't get enough speed to tack even if
>>>> you had come off the wind. Last week I was in a 12 knot wind. On a
>>>> close reach with balanced sails with the board up and my 190 lbs of
>>>> rail meat, I had less than 20 degrees of heel with the boom up and the
>>>> main reefed to 80%. With the boom down I had the same heel with 100%
>>>> main. I have my mainsail furling line marked for reefs at 60% and 80%.
>>>> If I have to reef the tiny little main beyond 60%, it's too windy for
>>>> me (over 20 knots) and I go home.
>>>>
>>>> Good luck!
>>>>
>>>> Lee
>>>> 1986 Rhodes22 At Ease
>>>> Kent Island, MD
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> david.walker5 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Stephen,
>>>>>
>>>>> Tacking with the jib, especially very light or heavy wind can be
>>>>> challenging
>>>>> too. The problem is the jib is very powerfull and it wants to push
>>>>> the boat
>>>>> away from the tack. One technique that has worked for me is something
>>>>> I
>>>>> borrowed from sailing a square rigger. When you push the tiller to
>>>>> lee,
>>>>> loosen the jibe immediately, but do not let the sheet fly.(for those
>>>>> interested its called scandalizing the jib) This reduces the drive of
>>>>> the
>>>>> sail and allows it to turn up wind. Just as the bow comes into the
>>>>> wind,
>>>>> tighten the sheet a little. The wind will then backwind the jib and
>>>>> push the
>>>>> bow the rest of the way onto the new tack. As you come through the
>>>>> wind, the
>>>>> wind on the new tack will push the sail across to the new tack. In
>>>>> really
>>>>> heavy wind you may end up "in stays" or headed into the wind and start
>>>>> to be
>>>>> pushed backwards. In that case as I said in an earlier post, shift
>>>>> the
>>>>> rudder (tiller to windward) and the boat will back onto the new tack
>>>>> and
>>>>> start to sail.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> David Walker
>>>>>
>>>>> www.davidwalkerphotography.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Event Specialists
>>>>>
>>>>> 781-639-2707 Office
>>>>> 781-718-8690 Cell
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Stephen Staum" <staum at earthlink.net>
>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 3:32 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Partial Mainsail
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael,
>>>>>> I too have a wife who likes to sail flat. I have an '87 w a 184 per
>>>>>> cent genoa. I usually start w 1/2 of the genny as the jib really
>>>>>> powers this boat. Even w the full main out (alone) u will struggle to
>>>>>> come about. Also, if u have the full jib out in light winds, it can
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> very difficult 2 get the jib 2 come across when coming about. It is
>>>>>> often easier 2 jibe or roll up 1/2 the jib b4 come about is started.
>>>>>> Enjoy!
>>>>>> Stephen Staum
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 24, 2009, at 12:47 PM, MichaelT <mticse at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Went out with the family on Sunday and wanted to play it safe.
>>>>>>> Drew the IMF mainsail approx halfway on the boom (the letter R on
>>>>>>> the sail
>>>>>>> wasn't showing).
>>>>>>> Wanted to keep things simple and used no jib. Centerboard was down
>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>> way.
>>>>>>> The boat stayed flat as a pancake which was the desired effect.
>>>>>>> My wife wants no heeling whatsoever. Problem I had was I couldn't
>>>>>>> tack.
>>>>>>> It even had a hard time getting into irons and just couldn't
>>>>>>> cutover.
>>>>>>> The only way I could change direction was to spin 2/3's around in a
>>>>>>> jibe.
>>>>>>> I didn't want to experiment and let out more sail so we just enjoyed
>>>>>>> sailing
>>>>>>> the next hour like this.
>>>>>>> Is this normal behaviour? What am I doing wrong?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Partial-Mainsail-tp24647946p24647946.html
>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Partial-Mainsail-tp24647946p24680385.html
Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 09:37:24 -0400
From: loumoore at aol.com
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Manasquan Inlet
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Message-ID: <8CBDCD6823DB0EC-E54-669 at WEBMAIL-DY15.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Rhodies:
Wanted to ask a question about Manasquan Inlet in New Jersey.
Has anyone left the inlet?? I plan on doing so at high tide and ride the current but I have heard it is still a difficult inlet.? Wanted to get your thoughts and advice.
Thanks,
Lou Moore
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Sent: Thu, Jul 23, 2009 12:00 pm
Subject: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 1925, Issue 1
Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to
rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
rhodes22-list-owner at rhodes22.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Rhodes22-list digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Transom crutch, Stepping, Camping (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
2. Re: Looking to purchase a used Rhodes 22 (DonKokko Burnaby)
3. Re: Looking to purchase a used Rhodes 22 (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
4. Re: Transom crutch, Stepping, Camping (bill davidge)
5. Re: magazine article about Rhodes 22 (Leland)
6. Re: Boat Tunes! (Lowe, Rob)
7. Check out SolidNav :: The first alternative for everyone
(R22RumRunner at aol.com)
8. Check out SolidNav :: The first alternative for everyone
(Joe Babb)
9. Re: Check out SolidNav :: The first alternative for everyone
(Hank)
10. Re: Check out SolidNav :: The first alternative foreveryone
(Lowe, Rob)
11. Re: Check out SolidNav :: The first alternative for everyone
(Rick)
12. Boom Vang for Mast Stepping (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
13. Re: Check out SolidNav :: The first alternative foreveryone
(Arthur H. Czerwonky)
14. Re: Check out SolidNav :: The first alternativeforeveryone
(Lowe, Rob)
15. Re: Check out SolidNav :: The first alternativeforeveryone
(Arthur H. Czerwonky)
16. Re: Check out SolidNav :: Thefirst alternativeforeveryone
(Ron Singerman)
17. Re: Check out SolidNav :: Thefirst alternativeforeveryone
(Ron Singerman)
18. Re: Check out SolidNav :: Thefirst alternativeforeveryone (Rick)
19. Re: Check out SolidNav :: Thefirstalternativeforeveryone
(Lowe, Rob)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:27:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Transom crutch, Stepping, Camping
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Message-ID:
<18211519.1248280062783.JavaMail.root at elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
All,
A few years ago I described my method of using a stern/transom crutch which has
since worked well for me. In view of recent posts about the Rhodes 22 Camper, I
thought I would take a picture to illustrate the concept, which you may be able
to employ in some fashion. It is attached for you to see.
I mount this rig on top of the transom, fastened both to the boat and backup
stability from lashing to the stern rail. Just a little insurance. The bottom
tube can easily be extended so as to match the stub height at the mast step, the
other end of the mast support while camping. Anything to keep it solid and
simple. Even though cradled in the 'V', a few turns of 3/8" line is prudent as
the center urethane wheel torns freely. The free turning wheel is the feature I
use in geriatric stepping, but needs a brake in this application.
I hope this can be of value to some skippers.
Salud,
Art
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 09:52:23 -0700
From: DonKokko Burnaby <dkburn at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Looking to purchase a used Rhodes 22
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Message-ID:
<45105d470907220952i3f06c668x91861fd6f7a9585c at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hi Rummy,
I am in Seattle, Washington... but I'm open to considering a Rhodes 22
for sale in any location at my price point, as it is pretty hard to find, it
seems! Really glad to see that there is such an active community here...
hoping to be able join the ranks of the Rhodes owners soon! :)
~DK
---------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:05:52 EDT
From: R22RumRunner at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Looking to purchase a used Rhodes 22
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Message-ID: <cd0.45f7d6a6.37985aa0 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
DK,
What part of the country do you call home?
Rummy
In a message dated 7/21/2009 6:01:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dkburn at gmail.com writes:
Hello all,
I just joined this list and hoping that it is still alive and well, as I
have quickly become a fan of the Rhodes 22 and am now hunting for one to
purchase. I'm looking for a used Rhodes 22 under $10k (really targeting
around $6k if possible) with trailer. If anyone knows of one for sale, I'd
really appreciate the contact. You can reach me directly at
dkburn at gmail.com
Thanks!
DK Burnaby
dkburn at gmail.com
__________________________________________________
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 13:20:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Looking to purchase a used Rhodes 22
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID:
<1595769.1248283218723.JavaMail.root at elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
DK,
We will certainly welcome you as a new skipper, when you find a boat, a might
scarce, as you have noticed. You will probably get a reply from Dave Bradley,
who is in the Seattle area also. Not a finer boat on the water. The boats are
reasonably available as recycles from GB, and although more expensive, are
already outfittted and well renewed. Like any investment, no ROI without the
'I'.
Holler at any of us as we can help you get started.
R,
Art
-----Original Message-----
>From: DonKokko Burnaby <dkburn at gmail.com>
>Sent: Jul 22, 2009 12:52 PM
>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Looking to purchase a used Rhodes 22
>
>Hi Rummy,
>
> I am in Seattle, Washington... but I'm open to considering a Rhodes 22
>for sale in any location at my price point, as it is pretty hard to find, it
>seems! Really glad to see that there is such an active community here...
>hoping to be able join the ranks of the Rhodes owners soon! :)
>
>~DK
>
>---------------------------
>Message: 7
>Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:05:52 EDT
>From: R22RumRunner at aol.com
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Looking to purchase a used Rhodes 22
>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>Message-ID: <cd0.45f7d6a6.37985aa0 at aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>DK,
>What part of the country do you call home?
>
>Rummy
>
>
>In a message dated 7/21/2009 6:01:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>dkburn at gmail.com writes:
>
>Hello all,
>
>I just joined this list and hoping that it is still alive and well, as I
>have quickly become a fan of the Rhodes 22 and am now hunting for one to
>purchase. I'm looking for a used Rhodes 22 under $10k (really targeting
>around $6k if possible) with trailer. If anyone knows of one for sale, I'd
>really appreciate the contact. You can reach me directly at
>dkburn at gmail.com
>
>Thanks!
>DK Burnaby
>dkburn at gmail.com
>__________________________________________________
>__________________________________________________
>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>__________________________________________________
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:42:49 -0400
From: bill davidge <wpdavidge at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Transom crutch, Stepping, Camping
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID:
<5eda1c0a0907221142y63098c51p73a021929bbd378c at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Art
What attachment ?
Bill
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Arthur H.
Czerwonky<czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
> All,
>
> A few years ago I described my method of using a stern/transom crutch which
has since worked well for me. ?In view of recent posts about the Rhodes 22
Camper, I thought I would take a picture to illustrate the concept, which you
may be able to employ in some fashion. ?It is attached for you to see.
>
> I mount this rig on top of the transom, fastened both to the boat and backup
stability from lashing to the stern rail. ?Just a little insurance. ?The bottom
tube can easily be extended so as to match the stub height at the mast step, the
other end of the mast support while camping. ?Anything to keep it solid and
simple. ?Even though cradled in the 'V', a few turns of 3/8" line is prudent as
the center urethane wheel torns freely. ?The free turning wheel is the feature I
use in geriatric stepping, but needs a brake in this application.
>
> I hope this can be of value to some skippers.
>
> Salud,
>
> Art
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 13:06:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Leland <LKUHN at cnmc.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] magazine article about Rhodes 22
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Message-ID: <24613618.post at talk.nabble.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Just got this email from a high school friend. He's kind of like Stan in
that he only sells one boat, although with the Euro exchange rate it's now a
little over a million dollars. Nice to hear that a yacht saleman can
appreciate quality no matter what size it comes in.
_____________________________________________________
...You still have your Rhodes? Interesting article on one in this months
SAILING ( not SAIL ) magazine. Always thought it the perfect family day boat
and just big enough for overnight adult?
All the best,
Joel
Joel F. Potter - Cruising Yacht Specialist, LLC
Amel's Sole Associate for the Americas
Mailing Address: 401 East Las Olas Boulevard #130-126
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301
Phone: (954) 462-5869 Fax: (954) 462-3923
Email: jfpottercys at att.net
_____________________________________________________
As of Monday, Barnes & Noble and Borders still don't have the August issue
yet. Can't wait to read it.
Lee
1986 Rhodes22 At Ease
Kent Island, MD
jlock wrote:
>
> Just got my issue yesterday and opened it now to read the article.
> Nice article and good photos. It was mostly about the trip with only
> a little about the Rhodes itself. But there were gems like - "a
> perfect daysailing cockpit so roomy it puts many 40-footers to shame"
> and - "...a veritable Swiss army Knife of features... " Stan, you
> done good!
>
> The most curious event was right at the end. Near the end of their
> trip, in calm seas, the tiller broke off in the helmsman hand! How
> does a tiller just break off? That's a pretty stout hunk of wood!
> Must have been some rot in the tiller head for some time.
>
> Cheers!
> John Lock
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
> Lake Sinclair, GA
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
> On Jul 16, 2009, at 08:07, Joe Babb wrote:
>> Check out the August issue of "Sailing" on page 52. There's an
>> article
>> about the Rhodes 22 and some nice pictures.
>> Joe
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
>
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/magazine-article-about-Rhodes-22-tp24515163p24613618.html
Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 08:32:50 -0400
From: "Lowe, Rob" <rlowe at vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Boat Tunes!
To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID:
<7A5B57319AFF9D4A8060949F2E724D5E02AC005B at mirkwood.cc.w2k.vt.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I think our boat tunes will be Jimmy Buffett, Dave Mathews, Springsteen,
and probably some Neil Young. And times for silence, of course. Nice
having them on board. - rob
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Lowe, Rob
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 11:38 AM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Boat Tunes!
Finally got tunes on the boat! Sure makes a difference. I followed
Rummy's suggestion and mounted the speakers in the front of the laz.
Great place as the sound is dispersed and fills the whole boat with
music. I got a "marine grade" unit with speakers made by Dual that West
Marine was selling early in the spring for $99. Great to jam to some
Dave Mathews and Jimmy Buffett while cruising down the lake. - rob
__________________________________________________
To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
http://www.rhodes22.org/list
__________________________________________________
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 08:45:32 EDT
From: R22RumRunner at aol.com
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Check out SolidNav :: The first alternative
for everyone
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Message-ID: <c97.483c5880.3799b56c at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
_Click here: SolidNav :: The first alternative for everyone_
(http://www.solidnav.com/traveler.html)
**************What's for dinner tonight? Find quick and easy dinner ideas
for any occasion.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?ncid=emlcntusfood00000008)
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 08:56:45 -0400
From: Joe Babb <joe.babb at comcast.net>
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Check out SolidNav :: The first alternative
for everyone
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Message-ID: <4A685E0D.8020801 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Well, it's interesting that somebody came up with this, but at 48V and
150A I doubt many will find it an alternative.
Weighs the same as an 8 or 9.9. You'll have to have one hell of a
battery bank to power this thing!!
Joe
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 09:24:19 -0400
From: Hank <hnw555 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Check out SolidNav :: The first
alternative for everyone
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID:
<c319c8b50907230624h44072cd2ib4ee8c09fce7fb70 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
And according to their data is equivalaent to a 4-6hp 4-stroke so same
weight for engine, massive battery bank and less power.
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Joe Babb <joe.babb at comcast.net> wrote:
> Well, it's interesting that somebody came up with this, but at 48V and
> 150A I doubt many will find it an alternative.
> Weighs the same as an 8 or 9.9. You'll have to have one hell of a
> battery bank to power this thing!!
> Joe
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:06:36 -0400
From: "Lowe, Rob" <rlowe at vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Check out SolidNav :: The first
alternative foreveryone
To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID:
<7A5B57319AFF9D4A8060949F2E724D5E02AC01CE at mirkwood.cc.w2k.vt.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
A guy on our lake has a 16 foot Precision powered by a Torqeedo Travel.
He says he loves it and can get two hours out of a charge. Just carries
the battery pack back and forth from home.
http://www.torqeedo.com/us/hn/products/travel.html
- Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Hank
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 9:24 AM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Check out SolidNav :: The first alternative
foreveryone
And according to their data is equivalaent to a 4-6hp 4-stroke so same
weight for engine, massive battery bank and less power.
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Joe Babb <joe.babb at comcast.net> wrote:
> Well, it's interesting that somebody came up with this, but at 48V and
> 150A I doubt many will find it an alternative.
> Weighs the same as an 8 or 9.9. You'll have to have one hell of a
> battery bank to power this thing!!
> Joe
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
__________________________________________________
To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
http://www.rhodes22.org/list
__________________________________________________
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:19:42 -0400
From: Rick <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Check out SolidNav :: The first
alternative for everyone
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID:
<52e9a140907230719t6471553er5b120d3b5b123928 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Rummy,
With only an equivalent 4-6 hp to a gasoline outboard, I would only trust it
in very protected inland waters without currents.
Rick
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 8:45 AM, <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
> _Click here: SolidNav :: The first alternative for everyone_
> (http://www.solidnav.com/traveler.html)
> **************What's for dinner tonight? Find quick and easy dinner ideas
> for any occasion.
> (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?ncid=emlcntusfood00000008)
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:26:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Boom Vang for Mast Stepping
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Message-ID:
<9288716.1248359196604.JavaMail.root at elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
All,
Since long before I could spell Rhodes 22 I have used either a boom vang or main
sheet blocks with a gin pole to step and unstep the mast. It was a heavy task
with a conventional mast, moreso with an IMF, although very do-able. I think Ed
K used and recommended the same setup, not sure. We already have the MA of the
main sheet rig, what about getting better than 3:1 or 4:1 ratio? I am going to
try the Harken recommended vang setup described on www.harken.com/rigtips/vang.php
and report if anyone is interested. The setup is 8:1 Cascaded Fiddle, the
second diagram on the right side. Doesn't really look more complicated, another
block and some additional line. Thoughts?
Some months ago I trialed two triple blocks in order to get 6:1 MA and found it
was no practical advantage over what I use now. I was using 3/8" line, maybe
more friendly with 5/16.
This may be helpful for other poor Rhoadies out there. Post me off-list if you
prefer not being a dart board.
The canvas guy,
Art
s/v Mary Jane
Atlanta/St Pete
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:29:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Check out SolidNav :: The first
alternative foreveryone
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID:
<22359978.1248359352117.JavaMail.root at elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Rob,
Hope you had a good sail yesterday.
How hefty is his battery pack?
The price on these electrics is a mite hefty.
Art
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Lowe, Rob" <rlowe at vt.edu>
>Sent: Jul 23, 2009 10:06 AM
>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Check out SolidNav :: The first alternative
foreveryone
>
>A guy on our lake has a 16 foot Precision powered by a Torqeedo Travel.
>He says he loves it and can get two hours out of a charge. Just carries
>the battery pack back and forth from home.
>
>http://www.torqeedo.com/us/hn/products/travel.html
>
>- Rob
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Hank
>Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 9:24 AM
>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Check out SolidNav :: The first alternative
>foreveryone
>
>And according to their data is equivalaent to a 4-6hp 4-stroke so same
>weight for engine, massive battery bank and less power.
>
>On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Joe Babb <joe.babb at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Well, it's interesting that somebody came up with this, but at 48V and
>> 150A I doubt many will find it an alternative.
>> Weighs the same as an 8 or 9.9. You'll have to have one hell of a
>> battery bank to power this thing!!
>> Joe
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>__________________________________________________
>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>__________________________________________________
>
>__________________________________________________
>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>__________________________________________________
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:39:21 -0400
From: "Lowe, Rob" <rlowe at vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Check out SolidNav :: The first
alternativeforeveryone
To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID:
<7A5B57319AFF9D4A8060949F2E724D5E02AC0253 at mirkwood.cc.w2k.vt.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Art,
Agreed, price a bit hefty. You know, I'm going to have to check this
out a bit more. I was just speaking to him on the water as we cruised
around last night. I'll discuss this with him next time I see him and
get back with you.
Sailing was weak, no wind. But Wednesday nights is "Beer Can Regatta"
nights (excuse to cruise around in a group, drink some cold barley pop,
and have water fights when appropriate). More of a social event, and
for that, the evening was excellent. - Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Arthur H.
Czerwonky
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 10:29 AM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Check out SolidNav :: The first
alternativeforeveryone
Rob,
Hope you had a good sail yesterday.
How hefty is his battery pack?
The price on these electrics is a mite hefty.
Art
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Lowe, Rob" <rlowe at vt.edu>
>Sent: Jul 23, 2009 10:06 AM
>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Check out SolidNav :: The first
alternative foreveryone
>
>A guy on our lake has a 16 foot Precision powered by a Torqeedo Travel.
>He says he loves it and can get two hours out of a charge. Just
carries
>the battery pack back and forth from home.
>
>http://www.torqeedo.com/us/hn/products/travel.html
>
>- Rob
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Hank
>Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 9:24 AM
>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Check out SolidNav :: The first
alternative
>foreveryone
>
>And according to their data is equivalaent to a 4-6hp 4-stroke so same
>weight for engine, massive battery bank and less power.
>
>On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Joe Babb <joe.babb at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Well, it's interesting that somebody came up with this, but at 48V
and
>> 150A I doubt many will find it an alternative.
>> Weighs the same as an 8 or 9.9. You'll have to have one hell of a
>> battery bank to power this thing!!
>> Joe
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>__________________________________________________
>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>__________________________________________________
>
>__________________________________________________
>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>__________________________________________________
__________________________________________________
To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
http://www.rhodes22.org/list
__________________________________________________
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:45:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Check out SolidNav :: The first
alternativeforeveryone
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID:
<1365396.1248360356491.JavaMail.root at elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Rob,
Sounds like good sport to me...
I have started using a water pump for washdowns on the water - marinas are
getting really sensitive about fresh water use. It is also a dependable backup
in a water fight - throws water about 15 feet. Now, that's real ACTION!
Art
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Lowe, Rob" <rlowe at vt.edu>
>Sent: Jul 23, 2009 10:39 AM
>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Check out SolidNav :: The first
alternativeforeveryone
>
>Art,
>Agreed, price a bit hefty. You know, I'm going to have to check this
>out a bit more. I was just speaking to him on the water as we cruised
>around last night. I'll discuss this with him next time I see him and
>get back with you.
>
>Sailing was weak, no wind. But Wednesday nights is "Beer Can Regatta"
>nights (excuse to cruise around in a group, drink some cold barley pop,
>and have water fights when appropriate). More of a social event, and
>for that, the evening was excellent. - Rob
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Arthur H.
>Czerwonky
>Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 10:29 AM
>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Check out SolidNav :: The first
>alternativeforeveryone
>
>Rob,
>
>Hope you had a good sail yesterday.
>
>How hefty is his battery pack?
>
>The price on these electrics is a mite hefty.
>
>Art
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: "Lowe, Rob" <rlowe at vt.edu>
>>Sent: Jul 23, 2009 10:06 AM
>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Check out SolidNav :: The first
>alternative foreveryone
>>
>>A guy on our lake has a 16 foot Precision powered by a Torqeedo Travel.
>>He says he loves it and can get two hours out of a charge. Just
>carries
>>the battery pack back and forth from home.
>>
>>http://www.torqeedo.com/us/hn/products/travel.html
>>
>>- Rob
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Hank
>>Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 9:24 AM
>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Check out SolidNav :: The first
>alternative
>>foreveryone
>>
>>And according to their data is equivalaent to a 4-6hp 4-stroke so same
>>weight for engine, massive battery bank and less power.
>>
>>On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Joe Babb <joe.babb at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, it's interesting that somebody came up with this, but at 48V
>and
>>> 150A I doubt many will find it an alternative.
>>> Weighs the same as an 8 or 9.9. You'll have to have one hell of a
>>> battery bank to power this thing!!
>>> Joe
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>__________________________________________________
>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>__________________________________________________
>
>__________________________________________________
>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>__________________________________________________
>
>__________________________________________________
>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>__________________________________________________
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:55:19 -0400
From: "Ron Singerman" <sail at tds.net>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Check out SolidNav :: Thefirst
alternativeforeveryone
To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Message-ID: <CA3622C3E8B6425AB7EF31A06FD72F52 at computer>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
If you want to see a real neat electric motor installation, for sail boats,
check out www.re-e-power.com . IMO the main drawback, other than the
price, is the weight of the batteries. Another Rhodes owner on the site led
me to this and if he wants to jump in, he is much more knowled
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