[Rhodes22-list] Partial Mainsail
Leland
LKUHN at cnmc.org
Tue Jul 28 17:05:29 EDT 2009
Chris,
My top three favorite jams have been pulling on the outhaul instead of the
furling line; pulling on the furling line without releasing the outhaul; and
pulling on the furling line while standing on the outhaul line. Naturally
all three happened in severe wind and waves.
The sad thing is that these aren't my top three most stupid things I've done
on the boat.
Lee
cowie wrote:
>
> Lee:
>
> Thanks for the photo. I agree that raising the boom with the left hand
> while pulling down on the blue line with my right helps get the sail in
> position. I find I am often overly focused on the sail coming out of the
> mast hoping it doesn't get bunched up that I sometimes don't realize the
> blue line is fouled at on the side of the white wheel. the harder I
> pulled thinking the sail is stuck in the mast the deeper the blue line
> would foul. It's amazing how hard work and force usualy produces the
> opposit result inteded and that slowing down and applying a smarter effort
> gets better results. Stan told me when I first sailed the R22 that if
> something has to be forced on the boat then you are not doing it right.
>
>
> Leland wrote:
>>
>> Chris,
>>
>> Below is a picture of my sliding pulley, although I'm sure it probably
>> has a nautical term.
>>
>> If you allow the sail to slide the pulley back it might keep the sail
>> from flapping around, however I pull the pulley to the back of the boom
>> before I unfurl the mainsail to prevent it from jamming.
>>
>> To get the sail tight on the boom, I find it's easy to pull down on the
>> outhaul with my right hand while lifting the boom up to the sail with my
>> left hand.
>>
>> I guess the real purpose of the pulley is to help keep the sail tight
>> when reefed, but it also works great to control mainsail shape when
>> you're loose-footing it.
>>
>> Lee
>>
>>
>>
>> cowie wrote:
>>>
>>> Ben:
>>>
>>> I agree, the R22 is very forgiving and will bring herself back into the
>>> wind and level off when the wind gets to be too much. My "fear" is not
>>> being able to get the main sail back in and ruining an otherwise
>>> perfectly new sail and my "stupid" acts include surfing wildly in seas
>>> that are a bit too much for a 22' boat. Each time out I learn more and
>>> build confidence. I notice this weekend that the blue line that pulls
>>> the main sail out has a pully that should slide with the end of the
>>> main. The pully was not sliding properly and the blue line was getting
>>> jambed in the pully. Correcting both of these conditions allows the
>>> main to come in and out more reliably. I am still learning and enjoying
>>> it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ben Schultz wrote:
>>>>
>>>> As one who has sailed in wind and chop that many of you would find
>>>> "stupid,"
>>>> I'll suggest that the risk of an R22 knockdown with board up or board
>>>> down
>>>> is next to nothing. Suppose you're sailing along under a stiff breeze,
>>>> and
>>>> you're heeled to the point where water is licking the tops of the
>>>> gunnels.
>>>> All of a sudden, you get a huge gust. You'll find that that boat
>>>> simultaneously rounds into the wind, and starts to level off and slow
>>>> down.
>>>> It's just the way it is.
>>>>
>>>> The only way I think you could knock it down would be to catch just the
>>>> right combination of wind and largish waves hitting the boat broadside.
>>>> Even then, the R22 is going to bounce right up and turn into the wind.
>>>>
>>>> I actually have a harder time bringing water over the gunnel in the
>>>> really
>>>> heavy stuff. I find it easier in 15-17 kts with a moderate chop to
>>>> catch
>>>> that point where the boat really wants to heel. I can't keep her over
>>>> that
>>>> far for a long time without a little bit of weight on the lee side
>>>> either.
>>>>
>>>> Take it from me, your boat protects us stupid/fearless skippers.
>>>>
>>>> Ben
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of John Lock
>>>> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 13:32
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Partial Mainsail
>>>>
>>>> Actually I think it is the opposite. With the board up, a gust will
>>>> tend to push the hull sideways more easily and expend some energy
>>>> doing so, producing less heel. But with the board down, it will offer
>>>> resistance to the sideways push of the gust at a very low angle. The
>>>> results will be more heel above the waterline.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers!
>>>> John Lock
>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>> s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
>>>> Lake Sinclair, GA
>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 27, 2009, at 13:41, MichaelT wrote:
>>>>> I'll have to balance the compromises here w/ needing to get
>>>>> somewhere vs a
>>>>> relaxing time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Btw, how real is the risk of a knockdown w/ the board up?
>>>>> Has there been any reported knockdowns with the board up?
>>>>> I suppose if a BIG gust came across and the board was up that the
>>>>> boat will
>>>>> react and heel much easier.
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Arthur H. Czerwonky wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These 'board up' options are a new one to me, partly because I began
>>>>>> serious sailing in a racing mode. I do not know of anyone who
>>>>>> would beat
>>>>>> into the wind with the board up in competition, certainly due to
>>>>>> slippage,
>>>>>> which Hank emphasizes so well, but also the risk of knockdown. I
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> never tried it, Michael, but I'd approach this technique with
>>>>>> caution,
>>>>>> especially if your wife is aboard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Happy sailing,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Art
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: MichaelT <mticse at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Jul 27, 2009 9:56 AM
>>>>>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Partial Mainsail
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for the first hand knowledge wrt the centerboard.
>>>>>>> You've certainly changed the fundamentals of my logic. Womehow my
>>>>>>> flawed
>>>>>>> thinking was that with the board up that the Rhodes would heel
>>>>>>> more and
>>>>>>> difficult to turn. On the contrary, the Rhodes actually sails
>>>>>>> better (i.e.
>>>>>>> less heel, easy to to turn) with the board up. Definitely
>>>>>>> something I will
>>>>>>> do this week.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks Lee!
>>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Leland wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michael,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With the board down it will allow you to sail closer to the wind
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>> better headway (less drifting).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> However, the faster you go the less impact the board will have on
>>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>> sailing close to the wind and headway. The board is most useful
>>>>>>>> if you
>>>>>>>> want to make headway in light wind.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm a daysailor so the only time I need to make better headway is
>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>> necessary to get back to my marina at the end of the day. With
>>>>>>>> yesterday's high wind and the current and chop pushing me away
>>>>>>>> from the
>>>>>>>> wind, I never once lowered my board and sailed part of the time
>>>>>>>> on broad
>>>>>>>> reaches and runs. On tacks the boat turned like a sports car.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With the board down it will act as a pivot point and allow you to
>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>> easier whether you are tacking or motoring around your slip. I
>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>> if for either one.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've measured my speed countless times with the board up and down
>>>>>>>> and it
>>>>>>>> has always had a negative impact on speed. I think the term is VMG
>>>>>>>> (velocity made good?) which measures how much headway you're
>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>> making. If I could figure out how to measure it on my GPS I'm
>>>>>>>> sure it
>>>>>>>> would show that the board helps, but with the reduction in speed
>>>>>>>> it sure
>>>>>>>> doesn't seem that way.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lee
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> MichaelT wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lee,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I was just thinking about bringing the centerboard up as you
>>>>>>>>> suggested,
>>>>>>>>> but have concerns.
>>>>>>>>> Did you flip bringing the centerboard up and down. Down when
>>>>>>>>> tacking
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> up after the tack?
>>>>>>>>> I remember when I forgot to let the centerboard down and all I
>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>> remember was going sideways and difficulty in making headway. In
>>>>>>>>> essence
>>>>>>>>> the boat was slipping and pushed sideways by the wind when the
>>>>>>>>> centerboard is up. I suppose as long as we don't need to be
>>>>>>>>> anywhere
>>>>>>>>> soon
>>>>>>>>> this is all fine.
>>>>>>>>> At the end I'll have to let my wife judge!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Great suggestion!
>>>>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Leland wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Michael,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You're getting lots of good advice.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You'll have a little less heel with the board up. From the
>>>>>>>>>> Rhodes
>>>>>>>>>> Owners' Site under FAQs under Rhodes vs. Com-Pac vs.
>>>>>>>>>> Precisions: 5.
>>>>>>>>>> Retract the centerboard part way in a big breeze. The board is
>>>>>>>>>> intentionally modest in weight, and does not contribute
>>>>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> stability up or down. Raising the board part way will reduce
>>>>>>>>>> both heel
>>>>>>>>>> and weather helm.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The quote refers to Precisions. If I raise the board all the
>>>>>>>>>> way on
>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> Rhodes it usually only reduces heel by about 3 degrees but your
>>>>>>>>>> wife
>>>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>>> appreciate it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In an 8-10 knot wind, lowering the boom will reduce heel also.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As Dave mentioned the boat sails better with two sails. For the
>>>>>>>>>> amount
>>>>>>>>>> of wind you described you probably weren't going fast enough to
>>>>>>>>>> tack.
>>>>>>>>>> Come off the wind enough to get up some speed and you'll then
>>>>>>>>>> be able
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> turn her sharply into the wind.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When I first got my Rhodes I typically had too much sail out.
>>>>>>>>>> You
>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>> wise to be conservative in your sail plan, but without any
>>>>>>>>>> headsail
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> so little main you probably couldn't get enough speed to tack
>>>>>>>>>> even if
>>>>>>>>>> you had come off the wind. Last week I was in a 12 knot wind.
>>>>>>>>>> On a
>>>>>>>>>> close reach with balanced sails with the board up and my 190
>>>>>>>>>> lbs of
>>>>>>>>>> rail
>>>>>>>>>> meat, I had less than 20 degrees of heel with the boom up and
>>>>>>>>>> the main
>>>>>>>>>> reefed to 80%. With the boom down I had the same heel with
>>>>>>>>>> 100% main.
>>>>>>>>>> I have my mainsail furling line marked for reefs at 60% and
>>>>>>>>>> 80%. If I
>>>>>>>>>> have to reef the tiny little main beyond 60%, it's too windy
>>>>>>>>>> for me
>>>>>>>>>> (over 20 knots) and I go home.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Good luck!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Lee
>>>>>>>>>> 1986 Rhodes22 At Ease
>>>>>>>>>> Kent Island, MD
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> david.walker5 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Stephen,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Tacking with the jib, especially very light or heavy wind can be
>>>>>>>>>>> challenging
>>>>>>>>>>> too. The problem is the jib is very powerfull and it wants to
>>>>>>>>>>> push
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> boat
>>>>>>>>>>> away from the tack. One technique that has worked for me is
>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> borrowed from sailing a square rigger. When you push the
>>>>>>>>>>> tiller to
>>>>>>>>>>> lee,
>>>>>>>>>>> loosen the jibe immediately, but do not let the sheet fly.(for
>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>> interested its called scandalizing the jib) This reduces the
>>>>>>>>>>> drive
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> sail and allows it to turn up wind. Just as the bow comes
>>>>>>>>>>> into the
>>>>>>>>>>> wind,
>>>>>>>>>>> tighten the sheet a little. The wind will then backwind the
>>>>>>>>>>> jib and
>>>>>>>>>>> push the
>>>>>>>>>>> bow the rest of the way onto the new tack. As you come through
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> wind, the
>>>>>>>>>>> wind on the new tack will push the sail across to the new
>>>>>>>>>>> tack. In
>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>> heavy wind you may end up "in stays" or headed into the wind and
>>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>>>>>> pushed backwards. In that case as I said in an earlier post,
>>>>>>>>>>> shift
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> rudder (tiller to windward) and the boat will back onto the
>>>>>>>>>>> new tack
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> start to sail.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> David Walker
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> www.davidwalkerphotography.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Event Specialists
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 781-639-2707 Office
>>>>>>>>>>> 781-718-8690 Cell
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Stephen Staum" <staum at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 3:32 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Partial Mainsail
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I too have a wife who likes to sail flat. I have an '87 w a
>>>>>>>>>>>> 184 per
>>>>>>>>>>>> cent genoa. I usually start w 1/2 of the genny as the jib
>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>> powers this boat. Even w the full main out (alone) u will
>>>>>>>>>>>> struggle
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> come about. Also, if u have the full jib out in light winds,
>>>>>>>>>>>> it can
>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>> very difficult 2 get the jib 2 come across when coming about.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It is
>>>>>>>>>>>> often easier 2 jibe or roll up 1/2 the jib b4 come about is
>>>>>>>>>>>> started.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Enjoy!
>>>>>>>>>>>> Stephen Staum
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 24, 2009, at 12:47 PM, MichaelT <mticse at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Went out with the family on Sunday and wanted to play it safe.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Drew the IMF mainsail approx halfway on the boom (the letter
>>>>>>>>>>>>> R on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the sail
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't showing).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wanted to keep things simple and used no jib. Centerboard
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was down
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> way.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The boat stayed flat as a pancake which was the desired
>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My wife wants no heeling whatsoever. Problem I had was I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tack.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It even had a hard time getting into irons and just couldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cutover.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The only way I could change direction was to spin 2/3's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> around in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> jibe.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't want to experiment and let out more sail so we just
>>>>>>>>>>>>> enjoyed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sailing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the next hour like this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this normal behaviour? What am I doing wrong?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Partial-Mainsail-
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp24647946p24647946.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> list go
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>> list go
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>>>>>> list go
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Partial-Mainsail-tp24647946p24681160.html
>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>>> go to
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Partial-Mainsail-tp24647946p24685194.html
>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nabble.com/file/p24699093/Picture%2B106.jpg Picture+106.jpg
>>
>
>
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