[Rhodes22-list] The results of your email commands
John
johnrowland at optonline.net
Tue Jul 28 21:48:58 EDT 2009
----- Original Message -----
From: <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org>
To: <johnrowland at optonline.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:02 PM
Subject: The results of your email commands
> The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your
> original message.
>
>
> - Unprocessed:
> involved. I purchased a 1989 Rhodes22 about 1 year ago. I have raced
> Mariners years ago, owned a few O'Days, and never found a boat that I
> enjoy
> more than this one. Heaven forbid General Boats has problems. There
> is no
> owner loyalty, or construction quality (or--even more
> important--customer
> service) that compares with this company. While I probably cannot
> attend
> the Annapolis Show, I need to know what I (and other loyal owners) can
> do to
> keep this company strong.
> I have been amazed at the discussions on this list (with the exception
> of
> the political issues regarding the last election). My goodness, where
> else
> can I learn about how to sail more effectively and fix whatever
> problems I
> have on the boat. I do not call a customer service number that keeps
> me on
> hold for hours--I talk to the owner of the company!!
> I will not get involved in discussions regarding royalties, but do
> think
> that each of us owes Stan some support in keeping this boat alive.
> I am actually in a slip next to a Hunter 40, and I am happier with this
> boat.
> I read a lot of e-mails from individuals who offer suggestions about
> other
> members issues and questions. What better support canone get than
> this?
> I keep the boat at a slip at the Brant Beach Yacht Club in Brant Beach,
> New
>
> - Ignored:
> Jersey and look forward to meeting other owners in the area.
>
> John
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick" <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's dilema
>
>
> > $1.97
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Arthur H. Czerwonky <
> > czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Rick,
> >>
> >> Good idea, buddy! Somehow to add a unique personal touch. I would
> add,
> >> however, that Mary Lou really does not need to dance on table tops
> at the
> >> Annapolis show. Fred, Pleassse!
> >>
> >> I agree with the blazers, but, as we are in shoestring mode, what
> about a
> >> Hanes T-shirt, and of course, hospitality hot dogs with lots of
> mustard
> >> and
> >> relish. Seriously, I embroidered some nice looking T-shirts for the
> '07
> >> show, different color each day, some were 'Name, and rhodes22.com',
> and
> >> some were 'name, boomroom, rhodes22.com', each comma'd section above
> the
> >> other. They were noticed by our visitors, never a comment or
> compliment
> >> otherwise. You might have to get used to it... rhoadies are tough.
> >>
> >> Let's gel some more ideas for Stan to use. At least it engages the
> >> imagination of the smart cookies in our magnificent Rhodes fleet.
> >>
> >> No commissions or royalty this time either, guys. What do you
> charge,
> >> Rick?
> >>
> >> Art
> >> s/v Mary Jane
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >From: Rick <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
> >> >Sent: Jul 28, 2009 2:00 PM
> >> >To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's dilema
> >> >
> >> >Art,
> >> >
> >> >Using owners at shows sounds like a good idea. Carver has success
> with
> >> that
> >> >at the Cleveland show, dressing everyone up the same way in blue
> >> >blazers.
> >> >
> >> >I doubt any mass media advertising would have payback. Since all
> the
> >> major
> >> >sailing magazines have been pushing for so long the Catalina wave
> that
> >> >you
> >> >start at 22 feet and buy up from there, a GBI ad would be swamped.
> >> >Maybe
> >> >direct mail to long-time owners on state and Coast Guard sailboat
> >> >registration lists, pushing the R22 as a quality downsize option?
> >> >
> >> >Rick
> >> >
> >> >On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Arthur H. Czerwonky <
> >> >czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> John, Rob,
> >> >>
> >> >> You may recall that Stan proposed a stripped down version, call
> it a
> >> racing
> >> >> model, on the list a few years ago, and although I expressed
> interest
> >> >> in
> >> >> this new boat option to him, maybe others too, no further
> information
> >> was
> >> >> provided to my knowledge. Back at that time Stan expressed his
> >> >> ability
> >> to
> >> >> produce, and now maybe he will further reconsider and tell us
> more
> >> >> about
> >> >> what he had in mind. I still am interested, speaking for myself
> as a
> >> >> potential buyer. I will watch for any response. Did anyone get
> >> detailed
> >> >> information on this boat?
> >> >>
> >> >> I have suggested the value of baseline ad exposure. If nothing
> else,
> >> >> targeted reinforcement to the boat show displays that are so
> >> >> important.
> >> >> Maybe followup visits by experienced skippers. I have been told
> by
> >> >> one
> >> of
> >> >> our newer skippers that my 'hot dog hospitality' aboard Mary Jane
> at
> >> >> the
> >> '07
> >> >> show tipped the sale toward his boat purchase with him and his
> wife.
> >> BTW,
> >> >> no commission provided or requested. The presence of skippers at
> the
> >> show
> >> >> is valuable - a third party evaluation of their own boat, and
> with 'no
> >> axe
> >> >> to grind'. Consider it for yourself in support of Stan, as I did
> >> >> twice.
> >> >> You would have one very positive impression of how GB and a huge
> >> >> number
> >> of
> >> >> other boat makers reach their customers. Our skippers who are so
> >> willing to
> >> >> give demos, whether at shows or not, are such valuable
> ambassadors for
> >> GB.
> >> >> Having done it a number of times, it is really fun as well as
> being
> >> >> productive. Try it, you'll like it! Let's be specific - Can
> some of
> >> you
> >> >> skipper demos at Annapoli!
> >> >> s or St Pete or elsewhere?
> >> >>
> >> >> Cutting to the chase, who has some real connections to options
> and
> >> selling
> >> >> /advertising connections that could help get Stan and GB out of
> this
> >> 'black
> >> >> hole' that the company appears to be in? It could be just a few
> >> positive
> >> >> levers to pull that would enable better results, even in our
> current
> >> puuuny
> >> >> economy. Who is willing to pen letters of endorsement to
> >> prospects/suspects
> >> >> that could tip the scales, one by one. Time to get the horses
> out of
> >> the
> >> >> barn, guys.
> >> >>
> >> >> Like Mark Twain or someone else once said, let's get the P in our
> Pot!
> >> >>
> >> >> Respectfully,
> >> >>
> >> >> Art
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >From: John Shulick <jsbudda at verizon.net>
> >> >> >Sent: Jul 28, 2009 11:02 AM
> >> >> >To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >> >> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint
> (continued)
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Rob,
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Yep that pretty much covers it. Now what would the price point
> be for
> >> such
> >> >> a
> >> >> >boat? I have the origional literature that came with my 71 and
> you
> >> should
> >> >> >see that show package special price!!!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >John S.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Rob Lowe wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Drop the IMF, ditch the head, the water tank, the fancy motor
> lift,
> >> and
> >> >> >> re-model the interior? Now you have my 1976 boat! I do have
> >> >> >> battery
> >> >> >> though. - rob
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >> >> >> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of John
> >> Shulick
> >> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:52 AM
> >> >> >> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint
> (continued)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Rick,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I see your point clearly on the subject but I also see Davids
> idea
> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> options to increase sales. How about dropping the IMF, ditch
> the
> >> head,
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> on board water tank, the batteries, the fancy motor lift,
> re-model
> >> the
> >> >> >> interior and selling it as a "sport model" My wife and I live
> on
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> boat
> >> >> >> almost every weekend and find a porta potty and crank lights
> >> sufficient.
> >> >> >> Being a camper before a sailor I have found the R22 to be a
> first
> >> class
> >> >> >> floating campground without the pain of hiking in. I also have
> had
> >> the
> >> >> >> perverse pleasure one weekend of sailing rings around a
> macgregor
> >> >> >> 26
> >> >> >> using
> >> >> >> it like a no wake buoy as the kids pleaded at their father to
> make
> >> the
> >> >> >> mac
> >> >> >> go faster. Racer/Cruiser is more fun than Cruiser/Racer. Even
> if
> >> you're
> >> >> >> not
> >> >> >> racing its fun to be faster.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Respectfully submitted,
> >> >> >> John Shulick
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Rick-139 wrote:
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> David,
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> I hate to be the wet blanket again. But racing sailboats is
> a
> >> >> >>> whole
> >> >> >>> 'nother
> >> >> >>> market. The key to convincing a customer to buy a sailboat
> for
> >> racing
> >> >> >> is
> >> >> >>> to
> >> >> >>> convince him or her that they will have lots of other
> sailboats to
> >> >> >> race
> >> >> >>> against.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> In the one design game, it involves high volume production
> and a
> >> >> >>> distribution system that can execute geographically
> concentrated
> >> sales
> >> >> >> and
> >> >> >>> support. J Boats has been successful doing that in the Great
> Lakes
> >> >> >> with
> >> >> >>> the
> >> >> >>> J 22 and other longer models. Plus, J Boats has a respectable
> >> history
> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >>> maintaining one design integrity.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Of course, there's always PHRF racing. But how many 20 - 25
> foot
> >> >> >> cruising
> >> >> >>> sailboat owners are left with an interest in racing?
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Unlike 30 years ago, most people today who buy cruising or
> day
> >> sailing
> >> >> >>> boats
> >> >> >>> in the low 20's length are first timers. From there, they
> either
> >> drop
> >> >> >> out
> >> >> >>> or they move to larger boats more popular for cruising,
> racing or
> >> >> >> both.
> >> >> >>> Catalina and Hunter have turned the market into that by
> making
> >> >> >>> cheap
> >> >> >>> starter
> >> >> >>> boats people can easily abandon for yachts. Stan's main
> problem
> >> >> >>> is
> >> he
> >> >> >> now
> >> >> >>> has a product that goes against the prevailing mindset that
> has
> >> >> >> evolved
> >> >> >>> for
> >> >> >>> his market.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Did you read the article "The Little Boat that Could" in
> August
> >> issue
> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >>> Sailing? The title itself is a reflection of that mindset.
> And
> >> >> >> despite
> >> >> >>> all
> >> >> >>> kinds of compliments about the R22, the piece ends with:
> "More
> >> >> >> important,
> >> >> >>> where does one get a new tiller for a Rhodes 22?" That's
> some
> >> insult
> >> >> >> to a
> >> >> >>> builder who has admirably supported his product for decades.
> But
> >> >> >> again,
> >> >> >>> that's part of the same mindset.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Rick
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:04 PM, David Culp <dculp at hsbtx.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>> Rick:
> >> >> >>>> What I am saying is that this boat is unique and I can't go
> down
> >> >> >>>> to
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >>>> local boatyard and get some of the major parts that I might
> need.
> >> >> >> Also,
> >> >> >>>> I
> >> >> >>>> can't send an email or make a phone call to the guy who
> built the
> >> >> >> boat at
> >> >> >>>> most places and expect a response. That's probably worth
> >> >> >>>> something
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >>>> keep
> >> >> >>>> the operation rolling as long as Stan does his part. I
> don't
> >> >> >>>> think
> >> >> >> you
> >> >> >>>> ought to pay royalty/loyalty if you don't get anything for
> it.
> >> >> >>>> If
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >>>> group
> >> >> >>>> feels we are getting something worth paying for, then I'm
> just
> >> >> >> suggesting
> >> >> >>>> a
> >> >> >>>> small stipend annually to Stan which if everyone
> participates
> >> >> >>>> might
> >> >> >> be a
> >> >> >>>> better solution then a percentage up front facing new owners
> for
> >> >> >>>> loyalty/royalty. The 5% on the seller side will figure into
> the
> >> >> >> price
> >> >> >>>> and
> >> >> >>>> it gets the new owner out of any obligation to pay a
> >> royalty/loyalty
> >> >> >> up
> >> >> >>>> front for two years. Then, continued association membership
> will
> >> >> >> require
> >> >> >>>> the annual dues.
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> Imagine if you bought a Ford or Chevy used and then were
> asked to
> >> >> >> send a
> >> >> >>>> 5%
> >> >> >>>> fee to the factory. Nobody would... but this is not a Ford
> or
> >> Chevy.
> >> >> >> I
> >> >> >>>> figure some type of ongoing support is probably reasonable
> as
> >> >> >>>> long
> >> as
> >> >> >> we
> >> >> >>>> get
> >> >> >>>> good owner support and parts availability. For example, if
> >> >> >>>> someone
> >> >> >> comes
> >> >> >>>> along and hits my rudder in the slip and I need a new one,
> there
> >> >> >> ought to
> >> >> >>>> be
> >> >> >>>> a spare waiting at the factory to ship out. If someone
> blows a
> >> sail
> >> >> >>>> out,
> >> >> >>>> there should be one ready to ship and the right color too.
> I
> >> >> >>>> don't
> >> >> >> know
> >> >> >>>> if
> >> >> >>>> this is the case at GBI because spare parts mean overhead
> and I
> >> don't
> >> >> >>>> know
> >> >> >>>> how much overhead Stan is willing to carry. Maybe parts for
> >> >> >> non-members
> >> >> >>>> ought to carry a premium that members don't have to pay-so
> >> >> >>>> another
> >> >> >> added
> >> >> >>>> incentive to be one of the family.
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> I hear what you are saying about the market. Long term,
> owners
> >> >> >>>> are
> >> >> >> not
> >> >> >>>> going to be the ones to keep GBI afloat. You have got to
> get new
> >> >> >>>> customers
> >> >> >>>> through the door. There have been a lot of good suggestions
> >> >> >>>> given
> >> by
> >> >> >> a
> >> >> >>>> lot
> >> >> >>>> of experienced people on the list. My experiences with
> family
> >> >> >>>> run
> >> >> >>>> businesses are that we are very happy to take your money but
> you
> >> can
> >> >> >> keep
> >> >> >>>> your advice to yourself. However, Stan seems open to some
> >> >> >> suggestions.
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> Stan has an excellent product, more people need to know
> about it
> >> >> >>>> as
> >> >> >>>> someone
> >> >> >>>> has mentioned. A new boat is becoming cost prohibitive for
> most,
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >>>> recycling is a good second market but I think you need a
> "less
> >> >> >> frills"
> >> >> >>>> model
> >> >> >>>> to get younger couples through the doors. You would have to
> be
> >> able
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >>>> build it with the same quality, using the same molds at an
> >> attractive
> >> >> >>>> price
> >> >> >>>> point and I don't know if that is possible. I thought maybe
> a
> >> >> >> stripped
> >> >> >>>> down
> >> >> >>>> racing version might be a solution. Racers don't need much
> down
> >> >> >> below
> >> >> >>>> and
> >> >> >>>> will pay for quality above. The Rhodes is faster then a
> Catalina
> >> to
> >> >> >>>> being
> >> >> >>>> with and that would appeal to a lot of people.
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> Just my thoughts,
> >> >> >>>> David
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 17:28:36 -0400
> >> >> >>>> From: Rick <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
> >> >> >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint
> (continued)
> >> >> >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> >> >>>> Message-ID:
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> <52e9a140907261428v6feebf53l4e923711b987ec30 at mail.gmail.com>
> >> >> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> David,
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> When I was considering buying my R22, the PO said, "I can
> give
> >> >> >>>> you
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >>>> home
> >> >> >>>> phone number of the guy who makes the boat and he will talk
> to
> >> >> >>>> you
> >> at
> >> >> >> any
> >> >> >>>> time." Of course, that tilted me to buy his boat and
> >> >> >>>> subsequently
> >> >> >> buy
> >> >> >>>> many
> >> >> >>>> things from Stan.
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> Are you suggesting Stan discontinues this attractive
> offering in
> >> the
> >> >> >>>> shrunken marketplace for pocket cruiser sailboats? I think
> it
> >> >> >>>> will
> >> >> >> just
> >> >> >>>> turn customers toward high volume boats where technical
> >> >> >>>> information
> >> >> >> and
> >> >> >>>> spare parts are readily available.
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> Rick
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 4:49 PM, David Culp
> <dculp at hsbtx.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> > Stan:
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > Thank you for your insight into the business. I dare say
> that
> >> most
> >> >> >>>> > sailboat
> >> >> >>>> > owners don't get the inside track on happenings at the
> factory;
> >> if
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >>>> > factory is even still in business that is.
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > I want to comment on the loyalty/royalty program
> concerning the
> >> >> >> Rhodes.
> >> >> >>>> My
> >> >> >>>> > experience in boat ownership over the years is that a used
> boat
> >> >> >>>> purchaser
> >> >> >>>> > always spends the maximum funds set aside for the
> purchase.
> >> Either
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >>>> > purchase price and the taxes consume the entire amount or
> the
> >> >> >>>> > new
> >> >> >> owner
> >> >> >>>> > takes any funds left and applies them to things the boat
> needs.
> >> >> >> And we
> >> >> >>>> all
> >> >> >>>> > know that used boats need something all the time.
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > It is a bit of a sticky wicket let's say, to request from
> a new
> >> >> >> owner 5
> >> >> >>>> %
> >> >> >>>> > of
> >> >> >>>> > the purchase price be paid to GBI when they have probably
> spent
> >> >> >> more
> >> >> >>>> money
> >> >> >>>> > then they intended to begin with. The Rhodes 22 is the
> top of
> >> the
> >> >> >>>> scale
> >> >> >>>> in
> >> >> >>>> > 22' boats and used prices are not cheap. We see it all
> the
> >> >> >>>> > time
> >> on
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >>>> > list... Folks are interested in the Rhodes but they are
> trying
> >> to
> >> >> >>>> purchase
> >> >> >>>> > it on a "Catalina" budget; so they "lurk" on the list
> either
> >> saving
> >> >> >> up
> >> >> >>>> > their
> >> >> >>>> > cash or hoping to see a cheap boat come up for sale
> whereby
> >> >> >>>> > they
> >> >> >>>> promptly
> >> >> >>>> > go
> >> >> >>>> > off-list and complete the transaction.
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > You will remember in my case, that I sent GBI a check for
> $
> >> 200.00
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >>>> cover
> >> >> >>>> > the promotional materials you sent me-but that was not 5%
> of
> >> >> >>>> > the
> >> >> >> price
> >> >> >>>> I
> >> >> >>>> > paid. In the meantime, I have enjoyed the technical
> support
> >> >> >>>> > that
> >> I
> >> >> >>>> have
> >> >> >>>> > received as a member of the list from the owners and from
> >> yourself.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>>> That
> >> >> >>>> > is
> >> >> >>>> > worth something, even though I didn't realize it in the
> >> beginning.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>>> This
> >> >> >>>> > boat and this list are pretty unique to the boating world.
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > I propose and this will make some people on this list
> unhappy,
> >> >> >>>> > in
> >> >> >> fact,
> >> >> >>>> > very
> >> >> >>>> > unhappy.... An Owner's association with an annual fee.
> For
> >> >> >>>> > that
> >> >> >> annual
> >> >> >>>> > fee,
> >> >> >>>> > you have got to provide something however. Which is
> another
> >> >> >> problem
> >> >> >>>> with
> >> >> >>>> a
> >> >> >>>> > royalty fee upfront; people always need to feel that they
> are
> >> >> >> getting
> >> >> >>>> > something for their money. In this case, for the annual
> >> >> >> association
> >> >> >>>> fee:
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > Admission to the list
> >> >> >>>> > Technical support either from members or the factory
> >> >> >>>> > Availability and a price list of parts, sails, etc. that
> is
> >> >> >>>> > kept
> >> up
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >>>> date
> >> >> >>>> > so I can purchase it from you if I need something.
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > Except for the parts and prices, this is pretty much what
> we
> >> >> >>>> > are
> >> >> >> doing
> >> >> >>>> > already. Maybe you could come up with some member
> specials on
> >> >> >> pricing
> >> >> >>>> from
> >> >> >>>> > time to time for sails or parts or write an occasional
> article
> >> that
> >> >> >>>> only
> >> >> >>>> > members would get. I don't want to burden you with a
> bunch of
> >> >> >> extra
> >> >> >>>> work,
> >> >> >>>> > but there needs to be something unique about membership.
> In
> >> >> >>>> > this
> >> >> >> way,
> >> >> >>>> the
> >> >> >>>> > new owner would feel they are getting something and it
> would
> >> >> >> generate
> >> >> >>>> > revenue for you over the longer term. As part of the
> >> >> >>>> > membership,
> >> >> >> if we
> >> >> >>>> > agree to give you 5% of the selling price when we sell,
> then I
> >> >> >> don't
> >> >> >>>> have
> >> >> >>>> a
> >> >> >>>> > problem with it; especially if the list helps my estate
> sell
> >> >> >>>> > the
> >> >> >> boat.
> >> >> >>>> > I'll
> >> >> >>>> > even stipulate it in my will. I figure if I owe a
> "loyalty
> >> >> >>>> > fee",
> >> >> >> it is
> >> >> >>>> > probably to the list members who have taken their time and
> been
> >> so
> >> >> >>>> helpful
> >> >> >>>> > over the years. If paying you a "royalty" fee helps keep
> GBI
> >> >> >>>> > in
> >> >> >>>> business
> >> >> >>>> > then that helps them and you. As a seller, if I pay 5%
> then it
> >> >> >> gets my
> >> >> >>>> > buyer on the list free for two years. Then he/she can do
> the
> >> >> >>>> responsible
> >> >> >>>> > thing and start paying their own royalty/loyalty dues.
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > The other situation which started the discussion in the
> >> >> >>>> > beginning
> >> >> >> has
> >> >> >>>> to
> >> >> >>>> do
> >> >> >>>> > with after-market products or other parts unique to the
> Rhodes.
> >> If
> >> >> >> a
> >> >> >>>> > member
> >> >> >>>> > has an after-market item to sell to the list which is
> unique to
> >> the
> >> >> >>>> Rhodes
> >> >> >>>> > and/or would normally be available from GBI for sale, then
> >> >> >>>> > he/she
> >> >> >> goes
> >> >> >>>> > through you. They can advertise it and discuss it; but I
> buy
> >> >> >>>> > it
> >> >> >> from
> >> >> >>>> you
> >> >> >>>> > after you have added your mark up or it cannot be
> advertised on
> >> the
> >> >> >>>> > member's
> >> >> >>>> > list by another member or by a third party. Simple as
> that.
> >> They
> >> >> >> are
> >> >> >>>> a
> >> >> >>>> > supplier of General Boats and you are the distributor to
> me.
> >> >> >>>> Obviously,
> >> >> >>>> > the
> >> >> >>>> > list membership information is kept proprietary to prevent
> >> >> >>>> > direct
> >> >> >>>> marketing
> >> >> >>>> > by a third party. If a member tries to go behind your
> back...
> >> >> >>>> > we
> >> >> >> can
> >> >> >>>> take
> >> >> >>>> > care of that. If something comes up for sale on the
> >> >> >>>> > open-market
> >> >> >> that
> >> >> >>>> is
> >> >> >>>> > unique to the Rhodes 22 and there are legal issues, then
> that
> >> >> >>>> > is
> >> a
> >> >> >>>> > discussion for lawyers and not for this forum.
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > Right now MJM is administering the list. I think he or
> >> >> >>>> > whomever
> >> >> >> takes
> >> >> >>>> on
> >> >> >>>> > those duties gets their membership free.
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > I hope you will take these suggestions under advisement
> and if
> >> >> >>>> > it
> >> >> >> is of
> >> >> >>>> > interest, let us know what you think the annual membership
> fee
> >> >> >> should
> >> >> >>>> be.
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > For everyone else, let the flaming begin.... But just
> keep in
> >> mind
> >> >> >>>> what
> >> >> >>>> > the
> >> >> >>>> > purpose is here. Trying to come up with something
> palatable to
> >> >> >> help
> >> >> >>>> GBI
> >> >> >>>> > now
> >> >> >>>> > and us in the long run.
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > David
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > PS:
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > Other thoughts: The Rhodes 22 website is "technically"
> one of
> >> the
> >> >> >> best
> >> >> >>>> I
> >> >> >>>> > have ever seen as far as the boat information goes.
> However,
> >> >> >>>> > it
> >> >> >> needs
> >> >> >>>> some
> >> >> >>>> > polish to be a more effective marketing tool. More timely
> >> >> >> information
> >> >> >>>> and
> >> >> >>>> > more emphasis on the recycle program and availability of
> used
> >> boats
> >> >> >>>> comes
> >> >> >>>> > to
> >> >> >>>> > mind since new boat sales are down. Also, have you ever
> >> considered
> >> >> >> a
> >> >> >>>> new
> >> >> >>>> > "entry level" boat without all the bells and whistles
> which
> >> >> >> someone
> >> >> >>>> could
> >> >> >>>> > purchase at a bit lower price? You've talked about a
> racer
> >> before.
> >> >> >>>> Could
> >> >> >>>> > you come up with something without having to have new
> >> >> >> molds-marketed as
> >> >> >>>> a
> >> >> >>>> > "Sport" Rhodes 22? Lower the interior weight, put a
> standard
> >> mast
> >> >> >> and
> >> >> >>>> > racing sails on it and a spinaker. Catalina has a "sport
> >> >> >>>> > model"
> >> >> >> and it
> >> >> >>>> > does
> >> >> >>>> > pretty well I think. Just some ideas I have batted
> around. dc
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 13:46:52 -0400
> >> >> >>>> > From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
> >> >> >>>> > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint
> (continued)
> >> >> >>>> > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> >> >>>> > Message-ID: <038FA83D95464CCFB609CA722206B2D8 at rhodes>
> >> >> >>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > Rose and I want to thank you all for indulging GB in the
> use of
> >> >> >> your
> >> >> >>>> forum
> >> >> >>>> > on an issue that is so basic to GB.
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > We want to thank those that take issue with our position
> but
> >> >> >> attempt to
> >> >> >>>> be
> >> >> >>>> > evenhanded. (If academically interested, we can provide
> >> >> >>>> > exhibits
> >> >> >> and
> >> >> >>>> > witnesses that prove the accuracy of our facts.)
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > We are empathetic with those who chafe at this sort of
> thing
> >> >> >>>> > and
> >> >> >> remain
> >> >> >>>> > silent - in our younger days we probably would have done
> the
> >> same.
> >> >> >> It
> >> >> >>>> was
> >> >> >>>> > not until 50 that we adopted our tribe's slogan of "never
> >> >> >>>> > again"
> >> >> >> and
> >> >> >>>> took
> >> >> >>>> > on anyone who wronged us: A policeman. A lawyer. a
> station
> >> wagon
> >> >> >>>> full
> >> >> >>>> of
> >> >> >>>> > nuns (just kidding about the station wagon), a giant
> >> >> >>>> > corporation
> >> to
> >> >> >>>> > docketing at the US Supreme Court. We prevailed in all
> these
> >> pro
> >> >> >> se
> >> >> >>>> > actions simply because we do not complain unless the facts
> and
> >> >> >> logic
> >> >> >>>> are
> >> >> >>>> > solidly on our side - but we digress.
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > And, in particular, we want to thank those who understand
> the
> >> >> >> logical
> >> >> >>>> side
> >> >> >>>> > of our position and offered suggestions.
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > Re the issue of the Loyalty/Royalty program: Its
> reasoning
> >> seems
> >> >> >> so
> >> >> >>>> > correct that it is hard to comprehend dissent. Those
> thinking
> >> >> >>>> > us
> >> >> >> crazy
> >> >> >>>> for
> >> >> >>>> > such radical thinking have to sit in this chair for just
> one
> >> >> >>>> > day.
> >> >> >>>> > Interestingly, dissenters enjoy products from many
> segments of
> >> >> >> industry
> >> >> >>>> who
> >> >> >>>> > have already worked out such support programs, yet these
> >> dissenters
> >> >> >>>> seem
> >> >> >>>> to
> >> >> >>>> > be drawing their own grandfather clause line as to which
> >> industries
> >> >> >>>> should
> >> >> >>>> > not be entitled to residuals on their efforts. Those in
> this
> >> >> >> group
> >> >> >>>> have
> >> >> >>>> > but to request and we will expand on the good sense of
> this
> >> >> >> program.
> >> >> >>>> It
> >> >> >>>> > has been emotionally gratifying seeing former members of
> the
> >> >> >>>> > "You
> >> >> >> must
> >> >> >>>> be
> >> >> >>>> > crazy" society, when, becoming members of the "List"
> family,
> >> seeing
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >>>> > light and converting.
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > Re the issue of the 50 years creating a unique product now
> >> >> >>>> > having
> >> >> >>>> others
> >> >> >>>> > take bites of its parts for their unilateral gain, if not
> >> resolved,
> >> >> >>>> will
> >> >> >>>> > come home to bite us all. ( When I walked out of the
> hallowed
> >> >> >> halls
> >> >> >>>> of
> >> >> >>>> > ole
> >> >> >>>> > PU I vowed not to go into business because I could not
> stand
> >> >> >>>> > the
> >> >> >> ethics
> >> >> >>>> I
> >> >> >>>> > saw, and assumed, had to go with that territory. But it
> was
> >> >> >>>> pre-ordained;
> >> >> >>>> > I
> >> >> >>>> > ended up spending most of my life a driving capitalist.
> And
> >> >> >>>> > it
> >> >> >> has
> >> >> >>>> been
> >> >> >>>> a
> >> >> >>>> > blast, for me and my partner of 60 years - because we made
> the
> >> >> >> making
> >> >> >>>> of
> >> >> >>>> > money our secondary goal. (The effects of that kind of
> >> religious
> >> >> >>>> fervor
> >> >> >>>> > has surprisingly turned out to be rough on our opponents.)
> >> There
> >> >> >> are
> >> >> >>>> ways
> >> >> >>>> > we can go to stop the taking of free bites of the
> profitable
> >> parts
> >> >> >> side
> >> >> >>>> of
> >> >> >>>> > GB's business::
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > When we sold Venture Sailboats (Macgregor), dealers could
> buy
> >> sails
> >> >> >>>> > elsewhere and make an additional profit on Roger's
> creation at
> >> >> >> Roger's
> >> >> >>>> > expense. Roger, who graduated at the top of his class at
> >> Stamford,
> >> >> >>>> simply
> >> >> >>>> > raised the price of his boat and included sails. Being
> the
> >> >> >>>> > tough
> >> >> >>>> business
> >> >> >>>> > man he is, he did it without notice and dealers had to eat
> >> >> >>>> > their
> >> >> >> sail
> >> >> >>>> > inventories they bought elsewhere. We are slow learners
> but
> >> could
> >> >> >>>> price
> >> >> >>>> > Rhodes sales to include a part an outside seller has
> latched
> >> onto.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>>> Or,
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > We could simply be unresponsive to boat owners who
> purchase
> >> parts,
> >> >> >>>> unique
> >> >> >>>> > to
> >> >> >>>> > the Rhodes design, from others in competition with GB or
> who
> >> >> >>>> > fail
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >>>> honor
> >> >> >>>> > agreements with GB. We inherently do not like this
> >> >> >>>> > retaliatory
> >> >> >> type
> >> >> >>>> of
> >> >> >>>> > solution, but it is a solution. Or
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > We could simply close shop and that would close the market
> for
> >> >> >>>> unauthorized
> >> >> >>>> > parts vendors. This "cutting off ones nose" solution is
> not
> >> >> >>>> > our
> >> >> >>>> choice.
> >> >> >>>> > However, not taking on rogue suppliers, eating away at
> the
> >> >> >>>> > life
> >> >> >> cash
> >> >> >>>> flow
> >> >> >>>> > of the company, makes it an inevitable solution.
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > In an effort to avoid any of the above solutions, based on
> the
> >> >> >> thinking
> >> >> >>>> of
> >> >> >>>> > List members in this particular complaint of GB vs. Art C,
> we
> >> have
> >> >> >> some
> >> >> >>>> > proposals that we will present to the List next week for
> your
> >> >> >>>> appreciated
> >> >> >>>> > feedback. The pro bono time we are having to devote to
> the
> >> >> >> problems
> >> >> >>>> and
> >> >> >>>> > questions of private sale Rhodes is becoming so
> overwhelming
> >> >> >>>> > (and
> >> >> >> we
> >> >> >>>> hate
> >> >> >>>> > to
> >> >> >>>> > be mean spirited enough to tell them where to go) that we
> just
> >> >> >> can't
> >> >> >>>> seem
> >> >> >>>> > to
> >> >> >>>> > manage all of this issue in one sitting.
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > ss
> >> >> >>>> > __________________________________________________
> >> >> >>>> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing
> >> >> >>>> > list
> >> go
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >>>> > http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >> >>>> > __________________________________________________
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >> >> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> list
> >> >> >>>> go
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>> __________________________________________________
> >> >> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> list
> >> >> >>> go
> >> to
> >> >> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >> >>> __________________________________________________
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> View this message in context:
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660
> >> >> >> 048p24697834.html
> >> >> >> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> __________________________________________________
> >> >> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> list go
> >> to
> >> >> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >> >> __________________________________________________
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> __________________________________________________
> >> >> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> list go
> >> to
> >> >> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >> >> __________________________________________________
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >--
> >> >> >View this message in context:
> >> >>
> >>
> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660048p24700483.html
> >> >> >Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >__________________________________________________
> >> >> >To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> go
> >> >> >to
> >> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >> >__________________________________________________
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> __________________________________________________
> >> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> go to
> >> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >> __________________________________________________
> >> >>
> >> >__________________________________________________
> >> >To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> to
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >__________________________________________________
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> to
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> > __________________________________________________
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> to
> > http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > __________________________________________________
>
>
> - Done.
>
>
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