[Rhodes22-list] Rhodes Promotions

[Michael D. Weisner]

Art,

Stan used to have pieces of the deck at the boat shows that were left over 
from making through holes for equipment.  I always was impressed by the 
"core sample" but I never wanted to take one home with me.  When I took 
delivery of my Rhodes so many years ago, the drill "plug" from the forward 
anchor vent was given to me to show the composition of the actual deck that 
I purchased.

I keep thinking that you are trying to fix something that isn't broken. 
Stan has been through tough times before.  If you want to help, buy a boat!

Mike
s/v Shanghaid'd Summer ('81)
       Nissequogue River, NY

From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky"  Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:49 PM
> Michael,
>
> As I have given more thought to your reply, consider seriously the value 
> of giving a prospect a small polished piece of hull scrap in good 
> condition to illustrate the thickness and quality of GB materials and 
> construction.  With or without the chain which I strongly recommended.  It 
> would be no 'trinket', my friend, instead a tangible, unique, and durable 
> reminder of R22 quality.  Someone like you with marketing and field sales 
> experience should see a legit value in this.
>
> My point in various suggestions I have made is for each of us to think a 
> little more 'out of the box' to GB benefit.  I notice that some have made 
> this effort.  I really want this company and this boat to thrive in the 
> years ahead and our boat investments to hold or increase in value.
>
> Art
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: "Michael D. Weisner" <mweisner at ebsmed.com>
>>Sent: Jul 30, 2009 12:54 PM
>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes Promotions
>>
>>Art,
>>
>>I think that Stan has spoken.  He wants GBI to exhibit the way it always 
>>has
>>and all errors, omissions, mistakes, etc. are the responsibility of GBI. 
>>He
>>has a system that has not only produced a great product but, believe or 
>>not,
>>enabled him to sell a few here and there.
>>
>>At boat shows, the only things that Stan has ever given away (free), to my
>>knowledge, are his wisdom and time, both much more valuable than a small
>>trinket.  Why try to cheapen the Rhodes 22 with some gimmicky giveaway.
>>
>>Stanley, in the immortal words of  George Carlin, is "the real deal" and
>>hasn't been matched by a glitzy marketer, yet.
>>
>>Mike
>>s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
>>Nissequogue River, NY
>>
>>From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net> Thursday, July 30,
>>2009 12:22 PM
>>> Deena,
>>>
>>> Do you think an inscribed ball point, one worth keeping and using, would
>>> make sense?  We just need to 'blue sky' this show...
>>>
>>> I stitched a miniature sail bag once, it was made of actual sailcloth 
>>> and
>>> was embroidered.  Really quality you wouldn't pitch in file 13.  Maybe 
>>> an
>>> embossed key chain with a small fiberglass piece (of hull) as a hanger.
>>> There must be soms scrap around the GB facility.  " You have a small 
>>> part
>>> of the boat, we can deliver the rest in a few months."  Let's stretch 
>>> our
>>> imagination over Stan (SOS)!
>>>
>>> Art
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>From: captainpy at comcast.net
>>>>Sent: Jul 29, 2009 4:56 PM
>>>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes Promotions
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Stan!!!!!!!!
>>>>
>>>>How about a Rhodes 22 T-shirt That says "Ask me about my Rhodes" )On one
>>>>side a picture and on the other GB's web address?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Deena AKA Captain Py
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>From: rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
>>>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:00:39 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
>>>>Subject: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 1931, Issue 1
>>>>
>>>>Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to
>>>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>
>>>>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>> rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
>>>>
>>>>You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>> rhodes22-list-owner at rhodes22.org
>>>>
>>>>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>>than "Re: Contents of Rhodes22-list digest..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Re: Stuff that works - pest control solutions (Jim Connolly)
>>>> 2. Re: Fw: general boat's dilema (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
>>>> 3. Re: general boat's complaint (continued) (stan)
>>>> 4. Re: general boat's complaint (continued) (stan)
>>>> 5. Re: general boat's complaint /in all fairness (Lou Rosenberg)
>>>> 6. Re: general boat's complaint /in all fairness
>>>> (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
>>>> 7. Re: general boat's complaint /in all fairness (Lowe, Rob)
>>>> 8. Yellowstone Lake, Jackson Lake Sailing (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>>>
>>>>Message: 1
>>>>Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:01:17 -0400
>>>>From: "Jim Connolly" <jbconnolly at comcast.net>
>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Stuff that works - pest control solutions
>>>>To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>Message-ID: <200907290201.n6T21ZTY022293 at raeid23.raenet.com>
>>>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>>
>>>>I had hornets and wasps in the coaming right before launch, so I needed 
>>>>a
>>>>fast solution.
>>>>
>>>>I found a non-toxic wasp killer spray that is based on mint oil ("poison
>>>>free" from Victor Pest Control). It took a whole can, but seemed to 
>>>>work.
>>>>The smell repelled or confused returning wasps, and those that were home
>>>>when I sprayed (at least some of them) died.
>>>>
>>>>Jim Connolly
>>>>s/v Inisheer
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message----- 
>>>>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of John Lock
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 2:29 PM
>>>>To: Rhodes 22
>>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Stuff that works - pest control solutions
>>>>
>>>>Last year I had a couple of pest problems that many people responded too
>>>>with helpful suggestions. Here's what my results were -
>>>>
>>>>1) Problem - spider webs in the rigging (especially masthead fly)
>>>>Solution -
>>>>WD40. I had the mast down early this spring to fix several things. 
>>>>Before
>>>>raising again, I sprayed WD40 liberally on the masthead, Windex, VHF
>>>>antenna, and diamond stays. So far (5 months
>>>>later) not a single web! Still get them down lower where I didn't spray,
>>>>so
>>>>we know the spiders are still there. But they don't want to (or can't)
>>>>start webs on the WD40 treated portion.
>>>>
>>>>2) Problem - paper wasps building nests under the cockpit coaming
>>>>Solution -
>>>>clothes drier sheets. Middle of last summer I stapled a bunch of drier
>>>>sheets into the wood backing up under the coaming on both sides. No wasp
>>>>nests have appeared in almost a year now. I see some more wasp activity
>>>>now, so I suspect it's time to renew the sheets. But that's a cheap and
>>>>effective control.
>>>>
>>>>Now if only I could figure out what to do about the ants coming aboard
>>>>from
>>>>shore....
>>>>
>>>>Cheers!
>>>>John Lock
>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
>>>>Lake Sinclair, GA
>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>------------------------------ 
>>>>
>>>>Message: 2
>>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:31:43 -0400 (EDT)
>>>>From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Fw: general boat's dilema
>>>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>Message-ID:
>>>> <16092871.1248874303875.JavaMail.root at elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>>>>
>>>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>>
>>>>John,
>>>>
>>>>Welcome aboard the list and your involvement. This fleet is strong for 
>>>>the
>>>>mix of its skippers as well an exceptional boat. If you can come to the
>>>>show you'll have a rather rare opportunity to meet many of them as we 
>>>>have
>>>>a get-together in a nearby restaurant, I can't remember what day that 
>>>>will
>>>>be this year - maybe we should take a poll. C'mon down and enjoy! You 
>>>>will
>>>>also see one of the most exceptional sailboat displays in the country. 
>>>>Lee
>>>>may have a handle on what is cooking locally, or Mary Lou and Fred may
>>>>know. We have alot of skippers in the North Chesapeake environs, let's
>>>>show the flag. BTW, is there an R22 burgee?
>>>>
>>>>Another option we could use in helping GB is to followup on inquiries on
>>>>the Rhodes from shows, calls, or curious prospects we may meet as our
>>>>marinas. If local owners are informed about such prospects from Stan or
>>>>other owners, they could be invited out on a sail or into a conversation
>>>>about our boat, maybe about their boat and/or sailing interests. We get
>>>>random requests from wannabes, maybe a more proactive initiative on our
>>>>part, done tastefully, would develop into prospects for Stan. He can
>>>>suggest names, approach, interests selectively to get the ball/tide
>>>>rolling. A passive approach will not enhance sales prospects for GB.
>>>>
>>>>I share your past interest in the Mariner (#1607) and the O'Day boats
>>>>(222). I haven't seen much racing interest in our skippers, but welcome
>>>>correction if it is due. Involvement in the racing is alot of fun. Stan
>>>>suggested a strictly racing R22 a few years ago, maybe to be revived. 
>>>>Are
>>>>you IMF (probably) or Conventional? What size Genny? Have you raced out 
>>>>of
>>>>Brant Beach, or is it mostly a cruising venue? Which motor have you
>>>>preferred?
>>>>
>>>>We welcome your involvement, John, and look forward to your reply.
>>>>
>>>>Art
>>>>s/v Mary Jane
>>>>Hartwell and St Pete
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--Original Message----- 
>>>>>From: John <johnrowland at optonline.net>
>>>>>Sent: Jul 28, 2009 9:50 PM
>>>>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Fw: general boat's dilema
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>From: "John" <johnrowland at optonline.net>
>>>>>To: <rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:01 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's dilema
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I have submitted one or two messages to the list, but would like to 
>>>>>>get
>>>>>>more involved. I purchased a 1989 Rhodes22 about 1 year ago. I have
>>>>>>raced
>>>>>>Mariners years ago, owned a few O'Days, and never found a boat that I
>>>>>>enjoy
>>>>>>more than this one. Heaven forbid General Boats has problems. There is
>>>>>>no
>>>>>>owner loyalty, or construction quality (or--even more
>>>>>>important--customer
>>>>>>service) that compares with this company. While I probably cannot 
>>>>>>attend
>>>>>>the Annapolis Show, I need to know what I (and other loyal owners) can
>>>>>>do
>>>>>>to keep this company strong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have been amazed at the discussions on this list (with the 
>>>>>> exception
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the political issues regarding the last election). My goodness, where
>>>>>> else can I learn about how to sail more effectively and fix whatever
>>>>>> problems I have on the boat. I do not call a customer service number
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> keeps me on hold for hours--I talk to the owner of the company!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will not get involved in discussions regarding royalties, but do
>>>>>> think
>>>>>> that each of us owes Stan some support in keeping this boat alive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am actually in a slip next to a Hunter 40, and I am happier with 
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> boat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I read a lot of e-mails from individuals who offer suggestions about
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> members issues and questions. What better support canone get than 
>>>>>> this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I keep the boat at a slip at the Brant Beach Yacht Club in Brant 
>>>>>> Beach,
>>>>>> New Jersey and look forward to meeting other owners in the area.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "Rick" <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:24 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's dilema
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> $1.97
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Arthur H. Czerwonky <
>>>>>>> czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rick,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Good idea, buddy! Somehow to add a unique personal touch. I would
>>>>>>>> add,
>>>>>>>> however, that Mary Lou really does not need to dance on table tops 
>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Annapolis show. Fred, Pleassse!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I agree with the blazers, but, as we are in shoestring mode, what
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> Hanes T-shirt, and of course, hospitality hot dogs with lots of
>>>>>>>> mustard
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> relish. Seriously, I embroidered some nice looking T-shirts for the
>>>>>>>> '07
>>>>>>>> show, different color each day, some were 'Name, and rhodes22.com',
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> some were 'name, boomroom, rhodes22.com', each comma'd section 
>>>>>>>> above
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> other. They were noticed by our visitors, never a comment or
>>>>>>>> compliment
>>>>>>>> otherwise. You might have to get used to it... rhoadies are tough.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Let's gel some more ideas for Stan to use. At least it engages the
>>>>>>>> imagination of the smart cookies in our magnificent Rhodes fleet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No commissions or royalty this time either, guys. What do you 
>>>>>>>> charge,
>>>>>>>> Rick?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Art
>>>>>>>> s/v Mary Jane
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>>>>>>> >From: Rick <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> >Sent: Jul 28, 2009 2:00 PM
>>>>>>>> >To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's dilema
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >Art,
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >Using owners at shows sounds like a good idea. Carver has success
>>>>>>>> >with
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> >at the Cleveland show, dressing everyone up the same way in blue
>>>>>>>> >blazers.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >I doubt any mass media advertising would have payback. Since all 
>>>>>>>> >the
>>>>>>>> major
>>>>>>>> >sailing magazines have been pushing for so long the Catalina wave
>>>>>>>> >that
>>>>>>>> >you
>>>>>>>> >start at 22 feet and buy up from there, a GBI ad would be swamped.
>>>>>>>> >Maybe
>>>>>>>> >direct mail to long-time owners on state and Coast Guard sailboat
>>>>>>>> >registration lists, pushing the R22 as a quality downsize option?
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >Rick
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Arthur H. Czerwonky <
>>>>>>>> >czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> John, Rob,
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> You may recall that Stan proposed a stripped down version, call 
>>>>>>>> >> it
>>>>>>>> >> a
>>>>>>>> racing
>>>>>>>> >> model, on the list a few years ago, and although I expressed
>>>>>>>> >> interest
>>>>>>>> >> in
>>>>>>>> >> this new boat option to him, maybe others too, no further
>>>>>>>> >> information
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> >> provided to my knowledge. Back at that time Stan expressed his
>>>>>>>> >> ability
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> >> produce, and now maybe he will further reconsider and tell us 
>>>>>>>> >> more
>>>>>>>> >> about
>>>>>>>> >> what he had in mind. I still am interested, speaking for myself 
>>>>>>>> >> as
>>>>>>>> >> a
>>>>>>>> >> potential buyer. I will watch for any response. Did anyone get
>>>>>>>> detailed
>>>>>>>> >> information on this boat?
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> I have suggested the value of baseline ad exposure. If nothing
>>>>>>>> >> else,
>>>>>>>> >> targeted reinforcement to the boat show displays that are so
>>>>>>>> >> important.
>>>>>>>> >> Maybe followup visits by experienced skippers. I have been told 
>>>>>>>> >> by
>>>>>>>> >> one
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> >> our newer skippers that my 'hot dog hospitality' aboard Mary 
>>>>>>>> >> Jane
>>>>>>>> >> at
>>>>>>>> >> the
>>>>>>>> '07
>>>>>>>> >> show tipped the sale toward his boat purchase with him and his
>>>>>>>> >> wife.
>>>>>>>> BTW,
>>>>>>>> >> no commission provided or requested. The presence of skippers at
>>>>>>>> >> the
>>>>>>>> show
>>>>>>>> >> is valuable - a third party evaluation of their own boat, and 
>>>>>>>> >> with
>>>>>>>> >> 'no
>>>>>>>> axe
>>>>>>>> >> to grind'. Consider it for yourself in support of Stan, as I did
>>>>>>>> >> twice.
>>>>>>>> >> You would have one very positive impression of how GB and a huge
>>>>>>>> >> number
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> >> other boat makers reach their customers. Our skippers who are so
>>>>>>>> willing to
>>>>>>>> >> give demos, whether at shows or not, are such valuable 
>>>>>>>> >> ambassadors
>>>>>>>> >> for
>>>>>>>> GB.
>>>>>>>> >> Having done it a number of times, it is really fun as well as
>>>>>>>> >> being
>>>>>>>> >> productive. Try it, you'll like it! Let's be specific - Can some
>>>>>>>> >> of
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> >> skipper demos at Annapoli!
>>>>>>>> >> s or St Pete or elsewhere?
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Cutting to the chase, who has some real connections to options 
>>>>>>>> >> and
>>>>>>>> selling
>>>>>>>> >> /advertising connections that could help get Stan and GB out of
>>>>>>>> >> this
>>>>>>>> 'black
>>>>>>>> >> hole' that the company appears to be in? It could be just a few
>>>>>>>> positive
>>>>>>>> >> levers to pull that would enable better results, even in our
>>>>>>>> >> current
>>>>>>>> puuuny
>>>>>>>> >> economy. Who is willing to pen letters of endorsement to
>>>>>>>> prospects/suspects
>>>>>>>> >> that could tip the scales, one by one. Time to get the horses 
>>>>>>>> >> out
>>>>>>>> >> of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> >> barn, guys.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Like Mark Twain or someone else once said, let's get the P in 
>>>>>>>> >> our
>>>>>>>> >> Pot!
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Respectfully,
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Art
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- 
>>>>>>>> >> >From: John Shulick <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>> >> >Sent: Jul 28, 2009 11:02 AM
>>>>>>>> >> >To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>>> >> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint 
>>>>>>>> >> >(continued)
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> >Rob,
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> >Yep that pretty much covers it. Now what would the price point 
>>>>>>>> >> >be
>>>>>>>> >> >for
>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>> >> a
>>>>>>>> >> >boat? I have the origional literature that came with my 71 and
>>>>>>>> >> >you
>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>> >> >see that show package special price!!!
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> >John S.
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> >Rob Lowe wrote:
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> Drop the IMF, ditch the head, the water tank, the fancy motor
>>>>>>>> >> >> lift,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> >> >> re-model the interior? Now you have my 1976 boat! I do have
>>>>>>>> >> >> battery
>>>>>>>> >> >> though. - rob
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> -----Original Message----- 
>>>>>>>> >> >> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>>> >> >> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of John
>>>>>>>> Shulick
>>>>>>>> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:52 AM
>>>>>>>> >> >> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>>> >> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint
>>>>>>>> >> >> (continued)
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> Rick,
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> I see your point clearly on the subject but I also see Davids
>>>>>>>> >> >> idea
>>>>>>>> >> >> of
>>>>>>>> >> >> options to increase sales. How about dropping the IMF, ditch
>>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>>> head,
>>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>>> >> >> on board water tank, the batteries, the fancy motor lift,
>>>>>>>> >> >> re-model
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> >> >> interior and selling it as a "sport model" My wife and I live
>>>>>>>> >> >> on
>>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>>> >> >> boat
>>>>>>>> >> >> almost every weekend and find a porta potty and crank lights
>>>>>>>> sufficient.
>>>>>>>> >> >> Being a camper before a sailor I have found the R22 to be a
>>>>>>>> >> >> first
>>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>>> >> >> floating campground without the pain of hiking in. I also 
>>>>>>>> >> >> have
>>>>>>>> >> >> had
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> >> >> perverse pleasure one weekend of sailing rings around a
>>>>>>>> >> >> macgregor
>>>>>>>> >> >> 26
>>>>>>>> >> >> using
>>>>>>>> >> >> it like a no wake buoy as the kids pleaded at their father to
>>>>>>>> >> >> make
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> >> >> mac
>>>>>>>> >> >> go faster. Racer/Cruiser is more fun than Cruiser/Racer. Even
>>>>>>>> >> >> if
>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>> >> >> not
>>>>>>>> >> >> racing its fun to be faster.
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> Respectfully submitted,
>>>>>>>> >> >> John Shulick
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> Rick-139 wrote:
>>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>> David,
>>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>> I hate to be the wet blanket again. But racing sailboats is 
>>>>>>>> >> >>> a
>>>>>>>> >> >>> whole
>>>>>>>> >> >>> 'nother
>>>>>>>> >> >>> market. The key to convincing a customer to buy a sailboat 
>>>>>>>> >> >>> for
>>>>>>>> racing
>>>>>>>> >> >> is
>>>>>>>> >> >>> to
>>>>>>>> >> >>> convince him or her that they will have lots of other
>>>>>>>> >> >>> sailboats
>>>>>>>> >> >>> to
>>>>>>>> >> >> race
>>>>>>>> >> >>> against.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>> In the one design game, it involves high volume production 
>>>>>>>> >> >>> and
>>>>>>>> >> >>> a
>>>>>>>> >> >>> distribution system that can execute geographically
>>>>>>>> >> >>> concentrated
>>>>>>>> sales
>>>>>>>> >> >> and
>>>>>>>> >> >>> support. J Boats has been successful doing that in the Great
>>>>>>>> >> >>> Lakes
>>>>>>>> >> >> with
>>>>>>>> >> >>> the
>>>>>>>> >> >>> J 22 and other longer models. Plus, J Boats has a 
>>>>>>>> >> >>> respectable
>>>>>>>> history
>>>>>>>> >> >> of
>>>>>>>> >> >>> maintaining one design integrity.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>> Of course, there's always PHRF racing. But how many 20 - 25
>>>>>>>> >> >>> foot
>>>>>>>> >> >> cruising
>>>>>>>> >> >>> sailboat owners are left with an interest in racing?
>>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>> Unlike 30 years ago, most people today who buy cruising or 
>>>>>>>> >> >>> day
>>>>>>>> sailing
>>>>>>>> >> >>> boats
>>>>>>>> >> >>> in the low 20's length are first timers. From there, they
>>>>>>>> >> >>> either
>>>>>>>> drop
>>>>>>>> >> >> out
>>>>>>>> >> >>> or they move to larger boats more popular for cruising, 
>>>>>>>> >> >>> racing
>>>>>>>> >> >>> or
>>>>>>>> >> >> both.
>>>>>>>> >> >>> Catalina and Hunter have turned the market into that by 
>>>>>>>> >> >>> making
>>>>>>>> >> >>> cheap
>>>>>>>> >> >>> starter
>>>>>>>> >> >>> boats people can easily abandon for yachts. Stan's main
>>>>>>>> >> >>> problem
>>>>>>>> >> >>> is
>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>> >> >> now
>>>>>>>> >> >>> has a product that goes against the prevailing mindset that
>>>>>>>> >> >>> has
>>>>>>>> >> >> evolved
>>>>>>>> >> >>> for
>>>>>>>> >> >>> his market.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>> Did you read the article "The Little Boat that Could" in
>>>>>>>> >> >>> August
>>>>>>>> issue
>>>>>>>> >> >> of
>>>>>>>> >> >>> Sailing? The title itself is a reflection of that mindset. 
>>>>>>>> >> >>> And
>>>>>>>> >> >> despite
>>>>>>>> >> >>> all
>>>>>>>> >> >>> kinds of compliments about the R22, the piece ends with: 
>>>>>>>> >> >>> "More
>>>>>>>> >> >> important,
>>>>>>>> >> >>> where does one get a new tiller for a Rhodes 22?" That's 
>>>>>>>> >> >>> some
>>>>>>>> insult
>>>>>>>> >> >> to a
>>>>>>>> >> >>> builder who has admirably supported his product for decades.
>>>>>>>> >> >>> But
>>>>>>>> >> >> again,
>>>>>>>> >> >>> that's part of the same mindset.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>> Rick
>>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:04 PM, David Culp 
>>>>>>>> >> >>> <dculp at hsbtx.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> Rick:
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> What I am saying is that this boat is unique and I can't go
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> down
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> to
>>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> local boatyard and get some of the major parts that I might
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> need.
>>>>>>>> >> >> Also,
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> I
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> can't send an email or make a phone call to the guy who 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> built
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> the
>>>>>>>> >> >> boat at
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> most places and expect a response. That's probably worth
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> something
>>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> keep
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> the operation rolling as long as Stan does his part. I 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> don't
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> think
>>>>>>>> >> >> you
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> ought to pay royalty/loyalty if you don't get anything for
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> it.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> If
>>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> group
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> feels we are getting something worth paying for, then I'm
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> just
>>>>>>>> >> >> suggesting
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> a
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> small stipend annually to Stan which if everyone 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> participates
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> might
>>>>>>>> >> >> be a
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> better solution then a percentage up front facing new 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> owners
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> for
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> loyalty/royalty. The 5% on the seller side will figure into
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> the
>>>>>>>> >> >> price
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> and
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> it gets the new owner out of any obligation to pay a
>>>>>>>> royalty/loyalty
>>>>>>>> >> >> up
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> front for two years. Then, continued association membership
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> will
>>>>>>>> >> >> require
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> the annual dues.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> Imagine if you bought a Ford or Chevy used and then were
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> asked
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> to
>>>>>>>> >> >> send a
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> 5%
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> fee to the factory. Nobody would... but this is not a Ford 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> or
>>>>>>>> Chevy.
>>>>>>>> >> >> I
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> figure some type of ongoing support is probably reasonable 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> as
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> long
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> >> >> we
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> get
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> good owner support and parts availability. For example, if
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> someone
>>>>>>>> >> >> comes
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> along and hits my rudder in the slip and I need a new one,
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> there
>>>>>>>> >> >> ought to
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> be
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> a spare waiting at the factory to ship out. If someone 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> blows
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> a
>>>>>>>> sail
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> out,
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> there should be one ready to ship and the right color too. 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> I
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> don't
>>>>>>>> >> >> know
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> if
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> this is the case at GBI because spare parts mean overhead 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> and
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> I
>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> know
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> how much overhead Stan is willing to carry. Maybe parts for
>>>>>>>> >> >> non-members
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> ought to carry a premium that members don't have to pay-so
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> another
>>>>>>>> >> >> added
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> incentive to be one of the family.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> I hear what you are saying about the market. Long term,
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> owners
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> are
>>>>>>>> >> >> not
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> going to be the ones to keep GBI afloat. You have got to 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> get
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> new
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> customers
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> through the door. There have been a lot of good suggestions
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> given
>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>> >> >> a
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> lot
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> of experienced people on the list. My experiences with 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> family
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> run
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> businesses are that we are very happy to take your money 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> but
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> you
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> >> >> keep
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> your advice to yourself. However, Stan seems open to some
>>>>>>>> >> >> suggestions.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> Stan has an excellent product, more people need to know 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> about
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> it
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> as
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> someone
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> has mentioned. A new boat is becoming cost prohibitive for
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> most,
>>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> recycling is a good second market but I think you need a
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> "less
>>>>>>>> >> >> frills"
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> model
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> to get younger couples through the doors. You would have to
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> be
>>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> build it with the same quality, using the same molds at an
>>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> price
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> point and I don't know if that is possible. I thought maybe 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> a
>>>>>>>> >> >> stripped
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> down
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> racing version might be a solution. Racers don't need much
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> down
>>>>>>>> >> >> below
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> and
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> will pay for quality above. The Rhodes is faster then a
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> Catalina
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> being
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> with and that would appeal to a lot of people.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> Just my thoughts,
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> David
>>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 17:28:36 -0400
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> From: Rick <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> (continued)
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> Message-ID:
>>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> <52e9a140907261428v6feebf53l4e923711b987ec30 at mail.gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> David,
>>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> When I was considering buying my R22, the PO said, "I can
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> give
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> you
>>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> home
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> phone number of the guy who makes the boat and he will talk
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> to
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> you
>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>> >> >> any
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> time." Of course, that tilted me to buy his boat and
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> subsequently
>>>>>>>> >> >> buy
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> many
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> things from Stan.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> Are you suggesting Stan discontinues this attractive 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> offering
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> in
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> shrunken marketplace for pocket cruiser sailboats? I think 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> it
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> will
>>>>>>>> >> >> just
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> turn customers toward high volume boats where technical
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> information
>>>>>>>> >> >> and
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> spare parts are readily available.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> Rick
>>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 4:49 PM, David Culp 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> <dculp at hsbtx.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Stan:
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Thank you for your insight into the business. I dare say
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > that
>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > sailboat
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > owners don't get the inside track on happenings at the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > factory;
>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > factory is even still in business that is.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > I want to comment on the loyalty/royalty program 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > concerning
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>>> >> >> Rhodes.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> My
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > experience in boat ownership over the years is that a 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > used
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > boat
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> purchaser
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > always spends the maximum funds set aside for the 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > purchase.
>>>>>>>> Either
>>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > purchase price and the taxes consume the entire amount or
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > new
>>>>>>>> >> >> owner
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > takes any funds left and applies them to things the boat
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > needs.
>>>>>>>> >> >> And we
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> all
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > know that used boats need something all the time.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > It is a bit of a sticky wicket let's say, to request from 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > a
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > new
>>>>>>>> >> >> owner 5
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> %
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > of
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the purchase price be paid to GBI when they have probably
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > spent
>>>>>>>> >> >> more
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> money
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > then they intended to begin with. The Rhodes 22 is the 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > top
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> scale
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> in
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > 22' boats and used prices are not cheap. We see it all 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > time
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > list... Folks are interested in the Rhodes but they are
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > trying
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> purchase
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > it on a "Catalina" budget; so they "lurk" on the list
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > either
>>>>>>>> saving
>>>>>>>> >> >> up
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > their
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > cash or hoping to see a cheap boat come up for sale 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > whereby
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > they
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> promptly
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > go
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > off-list and complete the transaction.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > You will remember in my case, that I sent GBI a check for 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > $
>>>>>>>> 200.00
>>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> cover
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the promotional materials you sent me-but that was not 5%
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > of
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>>> >> >> price
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> I
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > paid. In the meantime, I have enjoyed the technical 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > support
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > that
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> have
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > received as a member of the list from the owners and from
>>>>>>>> yourself.
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> That
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > is
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > worth something, even though I didn't realize it in the
>>>>>>>> beginning.
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> This
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > boat and this list are pretty unique to the boating 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > world.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > I propose and this will make some people on this list
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > unhappy,
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > in
>>>>>>>> >> >> fact,
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > very
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > unhappy.... An Owner's association with an annual fee. 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > For
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > that
>>>>>>>> >> >> annual
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > fee,
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > you have got to provide something however. Which is 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > another
>>>>>>>> >> >> problem
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> with
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> a
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > royalty fee upfront; people always need to feel that they
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > are
>>>>>>>> >> >> getting
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > something for their money. In this case, for the annual
>>>>>>>> >> >> association
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> fee:
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Admission to the list
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Technical support either from members or the factory
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Availability and a price list of parts, sails, etc. that 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > is
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > kept
>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> date
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > so I can purchase it from you if I need something.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Except for the parts and prices, this is pretty much what
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > we
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > are
>>>>>>>> >> >> doing
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > already. Maybe you could come up with some member 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > specials
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > on
>>>>>>>> >> >> pricing
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> from
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > time to time for sails or parts or write an occasional
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > article
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> only
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > members would get. I don't want to burden you with a 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > bunch
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > of
>>>>>>>> >> >> extra
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> work,
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > but there needs to be something unique about membership. 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > In
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > this
>>>>>>>> >> >> way,
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > new owner would feel they are getting something and it
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > would
>>>>>>>> >> >> generate
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > revenue for you over the longer term. As part of the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > membership,
>>>>>>>> >> >> if we
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > agree to give you 5% of the selling price when we sell,
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > then I
>>>>>>>> >> >> don't
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> have
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> a
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > problem with it; especially if the list helps my estate
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > sell
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>>> >> >> boat.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > I'll
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > even stipulate it in my will. I figure if I owe a 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > "loyalty
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > fee",
>>>>>>>> >> >> it is
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > probably to the list members who have taken their time 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > and
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > been
>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> helpful
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > over the years. If paying you a "royalty" fee helps keep
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > GBI
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > in
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> business
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > then that helps them and you. As a seller, if I pay 5% 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > then
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > it
>>>>>>>> >> >> gets my
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > buyer on the list free for two years. Then he/she can do
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> responsible
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > thing and start paying their own royalty/loyalty dues.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > The other situation which started the discussion in the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > beginning
>>>>>>>> >> >> has
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> to
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> do
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > with after-market products or other parts unique to the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Rhodes.
>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>> >> >> a
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > member
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > has an after-market item to sell to the list which is
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > unique
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > to
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> Rhodes
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > and/or would normally be available from GBI for sale, 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > then
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > he/she
>>>>>>>> >> >> goes
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > through you. They can advertise it and discuss it; but I
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > buy
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > it
>>>>>>>> >> >> from
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> you
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > after you have added your mark up or it cannot be
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > advertised
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > on
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > member's
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > list by another member or by a third party. Simple as 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > that.
>>>>>>>> They
>>>>>>>> >> >> are
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> a
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > supplier of General Boats and you are the distributor to
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > me.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> Obviously,
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > list membership information is kept proprietary to 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > prevent
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > direct
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> marketing
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > by a third party. If a member tries to go behind your
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > back...
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > we
>>>>>>>> >> >> can
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> take
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > care of that. If something comes up for sale on the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > open-market
>>>>>>>> >> >> that
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> is
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > unique to the Rhodes 22 and there are legal issues, then
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > that
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > is
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > discussion for lawyers and not for this forum.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Right now MJM is administering the list. I think he or
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > whomever
>>>>>>>> >> >> takes
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> on
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > those duties gets their membership free.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > I hope you will take these suggestions under advisement 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > and
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > if
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > it
>>>>>>>> >> >> is of
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > interest, let us know what you think the annual 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > membership
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > fee
>>>>>>>> >> >> should
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> be.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > For everyone else, let the flaming begin.... But just 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > keep
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > in
>>>>>>>> mind
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> what
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > purpose is here. Trying to come up with something 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > palatable
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > to
>>>>>>>> >> >> help
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> GBI
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > now
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > and us in the long run.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > David
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > PS:
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Other thoughts: The Rhodes 22 website is "technically" 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > one
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> >> >> best
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> I
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > have ever seen as far as the boat information goes.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > However,
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > it
>>>>>>>> >> >> needs
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> some
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > polish to be a more effective marketing tool. More timely
>>>>>>>> >> >> information
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> and
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > more emphasis on the recycle program and availability of
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > used
>>>>>>>> boats
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> comes
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > to
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > mind since new boat sales are down. Also, have you ever
>>>>>>>> considered
>>>>>>>> >> >> a
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> new
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > "entry level" boat without all the bells and whistles 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > which
>>>>>>>> >> >> someone
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> could
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > purchase at a bit lower price? You've talked about a 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > racer
>>>>>>>> before.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> Could
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > you come up with something without having to have new
>>>>>>>> >> >> molds-marketed as
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> a
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > "Sport" Rhodes 22? Lower the interior weight, put a
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > standard
>>>>>>>> mast
>>>>>>>> >> >> and
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > racing sails on it and a spinaker. Catalina has a "sport
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > model"
>>>>>>>> >> >> and it
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > does
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > pretty well I think. Just some ideas I have batted 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > around.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > dc
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 13:46:52 -0400
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > (continued)
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Message-ID: <038FA83D95464CCFB609CA722206B2D8 at rhodes>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Rose and I want to thank you all for indulging GB in the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > use
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > of
>>>>>>>> >> >> your
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> forum
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > on an issue that is so basic to GB.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > We want to thank those that take issue with our position
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > but
>>>>>>>> >> >> attempt to
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> be
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > evenhanded. (If academically interested, we can provide
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > exhibits
>>>>>>>> >> >> and
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > witnesses that prove the accuracy of our facts.)
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > We are empathetic with those who chafe at this sort of
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > thing
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > and
>>>>>>>> >> >> remain
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > silent - in our younger days we probably would have done
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>>> same.
>>>>>>>> >> >> It
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> was
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > not until 50 that we adopted our tribe's slogan of "never
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > again"
>>>>>>>> >> >> and
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> took
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > on anyone who wronged us: A policeman. A lawyer. a 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > station
>>>>>>>> wagon
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> full
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> of
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > nuns (just kidding about the station wagon), a giant
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > corporation
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > docketing at the US Supreme Court. We prevailed in all
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > these
>>>>>>>> pro
>>>>>>>> >> >> se
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > actions simply because we do not complain unless the 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > facts
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > and
>>>>>>>> >> >> logic
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> are
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > solidly on our side - but we digress.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > And, in particular, we want to thank those who understand
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>>> >> >> logical
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> side
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > of our position and offered suggestions.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Re the issue of the Loyalty/Royalty program: Its 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > reasoning
>>>>>>>> seems
>>>>>>>> >> >> so
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > correct that it is hard to comprehend dissent. Those
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > thinking
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > us
>>>>>>>> >> >> crazy
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> for
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > such radical thinking have to sit in this chair for just
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > one
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > day.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Interestingly, dissenters enjoy products from many 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > segments
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > of
>>>>>>>> >> >> industry
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> who
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > have already worked out such support programs, yet these
>>>>>>>> dissenters
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> seem
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> to
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > be drawing their own grandfather clause line as to which
>>>>>>>> industries
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> should
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > not be entitled to residuals on their efforts. Those in
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > this
>>>>>>>> >> >> group
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> have
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > but to request and we will expand on the good sense of 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > this
>>>>>>>> >> >> program.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> It
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > has been emotionally gratifying seeing former members of
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > "You
>>>>>>>> >> >> must
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> be
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > crazy" society, when, becoming members of the "List"
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > family,
>>>>>>>> seeing
>>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > light and converting.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Re the issue of the 50 years creating a unique product 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > now
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > having
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> others
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > take bites of its parts for their unilateral gain, if not
>>>>>>>> resolved,
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> will
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > come home to bite us all. ( When I walked out of the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > hallowed
>>>>>>>> >> >> halls
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> of
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > ole
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > PU I vowed not to go into business because I could not
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > stand
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>>> >> >> ethics
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> I
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > saw, and assumed, had to go with that territory. But it 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > was
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> pre-ordained;
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > I
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > ended up spending most of my life a driving capitalist. 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > And
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > it
>>>>>>>> >> >> has
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> been
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> a
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > blast, for me and my partner of 60 years - because we 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > made
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>>> >> >> making
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> of
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > money our secondary goal. (The effects of that kind of
>>>>>>>> religious
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> fervor
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > has surprisingly turned out to be rough on our 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > opponents.)
>>>>>>>> There
>>>>>>>> >> >> are
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> ways
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > we can go to stop the taking of free bites of the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > profitable
>>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>>> >> >> side
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> of
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > GB's business::
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > When we sold Venture Sailboats (Macgregor), dealers could
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > buy
>>>>>>>> sails
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > elsewhere and make an additional profit on Roger's 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > creation
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > at
>>>>>>>> >> >> Roger's
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > expense. Roger, who graduated at the top of his class at
>>>>>>>> Stamford,
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> simply
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > raised the price of his boat and included sails. Being 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > tough
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> business
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > man he is, he did it without notice and dealers had to 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > eat
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > their
>>>>>>>> >> >> sail
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > inventories they bought elsewhere. We are slow learners 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > but
>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> price
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Rhodes sales to include a part an outside seller has
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > latched
>>>>>>>> onto.
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> Or,
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > We could simply be unresponsive to boat owners who 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > purchase
>>>>>>>> parts,
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> unique
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > to
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the Rhodes design, from others in competition with GB or
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > who
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > fail
>>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> honor
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > agreements with GB. We inherently do not like this
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > retaliatory
>>>>>>>> >> >> type
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> of
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > solution, but it is a solution. Or
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > We could simply close shop and that would close the 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > market
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > for
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> unauthorized
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > parts vendors. This "cutting off ones nose" solution is 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > not
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > our
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> choice.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > However, not taking on rogue suppliers, eating away at 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > life
>>>>>>>> >> >> cash
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> flow
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > of the company, makes it an inevitable solution.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > In an effort to avoid any of the above solutions, based 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > on
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>>> >> >> thinking
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> of
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > List members in this particular complaint of GB vs. Art 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > C,
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > we
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> >> >> some
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > proposals that we will present to the List next week for
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > your
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> appreciated
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > feedback. The pro bono time we are having to devote to 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>>> >> >> problems
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> and
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > questions of private sale Rhodes is becoming so
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > overwhelming
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > (and
>>>>>>>> >> >> we
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> hate
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > to
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > be mean spirited enough to tell them where to go) that we
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > just
>>>>>>>> >> >> can't
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> seem
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > to
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > manage all of this issue in one sitting.
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > ss
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the 
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > mailing
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > list
>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> list
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> go
>>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> >> >>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>>> >> >>> list
>>>>>>>> >> >>> go
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> >> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> >> >>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> -- 
>>>>>>>> >> >> View this message in context:
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660
>>>>>>>> >> >> 048p24697834.html
>>>>>>>> >> >> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>>> >> >> list
>>>>>>>> >> >> go
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> >> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> >> >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>>> >> >> list
>>>>>>>> >> >> go
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> >> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> >> >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> >-- 
>>>>>>>> >> >View this message in context:
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660048p24700483.html
>>>>>>>> >> >Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> >__________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >> >To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing 
>>>>>>>> >> >list
>>>>>>>> >> >go
>>>>>>>> >> >to
>>>>>>>> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> >> >__________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>>>> >> go
>>>>>>>> >> to
>>>>>>>> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >__________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list 
>>>>>>>> >go
>>>>>>>> >to
>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> >__________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>>http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>------------------------------ 
>>>>
>>>>Message: 3
>>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:43:04 -0400
>>>>From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>>To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>Message-ID: <1BA7BBD3036947F289B013E52D813110 at rhodes>
>>>>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>> reply-type=original
>>>>
>>>>I guess this is a dear John letter
>>>>
>>>>John Shulick,
>>>>
>>>>That does not sound like the Stan I know. I know I do not ignore the 
>>>>good
>>>>guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and I do 
>>>>know
>>>>I
>>>>do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get 
>>>>through
>>>>as
>>>>was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.
>>>>
>>>>While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are, please 
>>>>do
>>>>not feel slighted because
>>>>at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands on the 
>>>>list.
>>>>
>>>>I do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my time)
>>>>and
>>>>I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating wanting to 
>>>>put
>>>>a
>>>>lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not built by 
>>>>us)
>>>>I
>>>>try very had to discourage them from pouring money into it with the 
>>>>advice
>>>>to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model since the
>>>>differences are so drastic.
>>>>
>>>>I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you got was
>>>>not
>>>>satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell whole 
>>>>boat
>>>>and parts buyers that everything from us is returnable. Did you send 
>>>>back
>>>>any faulty parts - if not, please do.
>>>>
>>>>ss
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>>To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has many
>>>>> complex
>>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not shure
>>>>> whether
>>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and what the
>>>>> price
>>>>> point would be for a "sport model". GB would have to make that
>>>>> determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any posts I
>>>>> place
>>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and not through
>>>>> him.
>>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and inquired about
>>>>> some
>>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a tiller 
>>>>> for
>>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder (but
>>>>> usable)
>>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for small
>>>>> parts
>>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources for my
>>>>> mast
>>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this week as
>>>>> part
>>>>> of
>>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an 
>>>>> equivilent)
>>>>> ,
>>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales to me and by 
>>>>> the
>>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose $2,000 more. 
>>>>> I
>>>>> still am in the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a complete 
>>>>> set
>>>>> of
>>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for parts and
>>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make them 
>>>>> as
>>>>> needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> John S
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> John;
>>>>> You're referring to the old US car manufacturers technique known as 
>>>>> "the
>>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but add on 
>>>>> an
>>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our butts when
>>>>> they
>>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was color.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that much less
>>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm not
>>>>> building
>>>>> or selling boats, or cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories without
>>>>> losing
>>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable.
>>>>>
>>>>> BenCittadino
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660048p24704459.html
>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>------------------------------ 
>>>>
>>>>Message: 4
>>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:49:10 -0400
>>>>From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>>To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>Message-ID: <1D4BA299E8024EB6A63F0999A9BD8ED3 at rhodes>
>>>>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>> reply-type=original
>>>>
>>>>even my typing is getting sloppy -
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
>>>>To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 9:43 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I guess this is a dear John letter
>>>>>
>>>>> John Shulick,
>>>>>
>>>>> That does not sound like the Stan I know. I know I do not ignore the
>>>>> good
>>>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and I do
>>>>> know
>>>>> I
>>>>> do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get
>>>>> through
>>>>> as
>>>>> was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.
>>>>>
>>>>> While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are, 
>>>>> please
>>>>> do
>>>>> not feel slighted because
>>>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands on the
>>>>> list.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my 
>>>>> time)
>>>>> and
>>>>> I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating wanting to
>>>>> put
>>>>> a
>>>>> lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not built by
>>>>> us)
>>>>> I
>>>>> try very had to discourage them from pouring money into it with the
>>>>> advice
>>>>> to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model since 
>>>>> the
>>>>> differences are so drastic.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you got 
>>>>> was
>>>>> not
>>>>> satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell whole
>>>>> boat
>>>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is returnable. Did you send
>>>>> back
>>>>> any faulty parts - if not, please do.
>>>>>
>>>>> ss
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has many
>>>>>> complex
>>>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not shure
>>>>>> whether
>>>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and what 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> price
>>>>>> point would be for a "sport model". GB would have to make that
>>>>>> determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any posts I
>>>>>> place
>>>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and not 
>>>>>> through
>>>>>> him.
>>>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and inquired about
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a tiller
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder (but
>>>>>> usable)
>>>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for small
>>>>>> parts
>>>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources for my
>>>>>> mast
>>>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this week as
>>>>>> part
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an
>>>>>> equivilent)
>>>>>> ,
>>>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales to me and by
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose $2,000 
>>>>>> more.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> still am in the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a complete 
>>>>>> set
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for parts 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make them 
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John S
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John;
>>>>>> You're referring to the old US car manufacturers technique known as
>>>>>> "the
>>>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but add on 
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our butts when
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was color.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that much less
>>>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm not
>>>>>> building
>>>>>> or selling boats, or cars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories without
>>>>>> losing
>>>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BenCittadino
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660048p24704459.html
>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>------------------------------ 
>>>>
>>>>Message: 5
>>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:11:31 -0400
>>>>From: Lou Rosenberg <lsr3 at nyu.edu>
>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all fairness
>>>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>Message-ID: <8ADB74E6-CF8C-4B63-B1BE-199E3A0F2676 at nyu.edu>
>>>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>>>
>>>>Rhodes owners, wanna be owners, and lurkers like me,
>>>>
>>>>I bought my R22 from a discouraged owner who had not taken care of
>>>>the boat and was basically dumping it in the back of
>>>>a Pt Jefferson yard back in '04. I had been on the list for about a
>>>>year before this and Stan advised me NOT to buy that boat.
>>>>I went against his advice and through the years , Stan and Elton have
>>>>helped me greatly. I ended up only buying about $1500, worth of rigging
>>>>and supplies on a visit to Edenton NC in 2005, but subsequently Elton
>>>>brought up a much needed used bow pulpit and new traveler assembly
>>>>to my yard a few yrs later.
>>>>
>>>>In all fairness I have not bought that much from GB over the years
>>>>but trust their judgement and of course Stan was right, I should've
>>>>waited and I may've found
>>>>a better deal. Restoring any boat is NOT that much fun but there are
>>>>rewards of doing it yourself, but sailing is the eventual goal and
>>>>ive sacrificed many sailing days to get where I am now.
>>>>
>>>>I owe so much to all the people on this list ALL of you helping me
>>>>out with questions for this novice sailor who has few skills in terms
>>>>of carpentry, fibreglassing
>>>>and the like. Next Thurs I hope to launch Miracles for the rest of
>>>>the year, keeping her in the calm, semi-polluted waters of Mill Basin
>>>>all winter long.
>>>>
>>>>wish me luck , I'll need it.
>>>>
>>>>Stan, maybe its time to bring in new blood and find a way to accept
>>>>some sort of retirement from all this grind?
>>>>
>>>>all the best
>>>>and thanks for all your help
>>>>
>>>>Lou Rosenberg
>>>>s/v Miracles
>>>>On Jul 29, 2009, at 9:43 AM, stan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I guess this is a dear John letter
>>>>>
>>>>> John Shulick,
>>>>>
>>>>> That does not sound like the Stan I know. I know I do not ignore
>>>>> the good
>>>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and I
>>>>> do know I
>>>>> do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get
>>>>> through as
>>>>> was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.
>>>>>
>>>>> While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are,
>>>>> please do
>>>>> not feel slighted because
>>>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands on the
>>>>> list.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my
>>>>> time) and
>>>>> I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating wanting
>>>>> to put a
>>>>> lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not built
>>>>> by us) I
>>>>> try very had to discourage them from pouring money into it with the
>>>>> advice
>>>>> to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model since
>>>>> the
>>>>> differences are so drastic.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you
>>>>> got was not
>>>>> satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell
>>>>> whole boat
>>>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is returnable. Did you
>>>>> send back
>>>>> any faulty parts - if not, please do.
>>>>>
>>>>> ss
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has many
>>>>>> complex
>>>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not shure
>>>>>> whether
>>>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and what
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> price
>>>>>> point would be for a "sport model". GB would have to make that
>>>>>> determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any posts I
>>>>>> place
>>>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and not
>>>>>> through
>>>>>> him.
>>>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and inquired
>>>>>> about some
>>>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a
>>>>>> tiller for
>>>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder (but
>>>>>> usable)
>>>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for
>>>>>> small parts
>>>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources for
>>>>>> my mast
>>>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this week
>>>>>> as part
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an
>>>>>> equivilent) ,
>>>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales to me and
>>>>>> by the
>>>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose $2,000
>>>>>> more. I
>>>>>> still am in the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a
>>>>>> complete set of
>>>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for parts
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make
>>>>>> them as
>>>>>> needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John S
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John;
>>>>>> You're referring to the old US car manufacturers technique known
>>>>>> as "the
>>>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but add
>>>>>> on an
>>>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our butts
>>>>>> when they
>>>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was color.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that much less
>>>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm not
>>>>>> building
>>>>>> or selling boats, or cars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories without
>>>>>> losing
>>>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BenCittadino
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-
>>>>>> tp24660048p24704459.html
>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>> go to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>Lou Rosenberg
>>>>Videographer
>>>>
>>>>Steinhardt School of Culture, Education and
>>>>Human Development at NYU
>>>>
>>>>239 Greene Street, Room 315
>>>>lsr3 at nyu.edu
>>>>
>>>>(212) 998-5122
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>------------------------------ 
>>>>
>>>>Message: 6
>>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:04:28 -0400 (EDT)
>>>>From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all fairness
>>>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>Message-ID:
>>>> <25945721.1248879868382.JavaMail.root at elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>>>>
>>>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>>
>>>>Lou,
>>>>
>>>>My guess is retirement in 10-15 years, although I marvel at his, Rose's,
>>>>and Elton's energy in this business arena. The composite support effort 
>>>>I
>>>>have seen by Rhoadies to help other fleet skippers is incredible, and 
>>>>will
>>>>become even more vital in the years ahead. As parts and accessories may
>>>>become less available, I, for one, have been keeping my eye out for
>>>>alternatives. As I discovered a year ago, the spreader brackets are
>>>>available from Dwyer (I'd keep a close eye on your's if they become
>>>>distorted with mast stepping using the old GB method). The alternative
>>>>transom crutch I use and posted can be fabricated by a SS shop I have 
>>>>done
>>>>work with.
>>>>
>>>>I have been told that replacement parts is one of the greatest concerns 
>>>>of
>>>>fleet skippers if we cannot obtain from GB, a problem I encountered as
>>>>long as two years ago. I have usually been able to find a substitute as
>>>>necessary. Maybe we can delay Stan's retirement until 20 years!
>>>>
>>>>Art
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message----- 
>>>>>From: Lou Rosenberg <lsr3 at nyu.edu>
>>>>>Sent: Jul 29, 2009 10:11 AM
>>>>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all fairness
>>>>>
>>>>>Rhodes owners, wanna be owners, and lurkers like me,
>>>>>
>>>>>I bought my R22 from a discouraged owner who had not taken care of
>>>>>the boat and was basically dumping it in the back of
>>>>>a Pt Jefferson yard back in '04. I had been on the list for about a
>>>>>year before this and Stan advised me NOT to buy that boat.
>>>>>I went against his advice and through the years , Stan and Elton have
>>>>>helped me greatly. I ended up only buying about $1500, worth of rigging
>>>>>and supplies on a visit to Edenton NC in 2005, but subsequently Elton
>>>>>brought up a much needed used bow pulpit and new traveler assembly
>>>>>to my yard a few yrs later.
>>>>>
>>>>>In all fairness I have not bought that much from GB over the years
>>>>>but trust their judgement and of course Stan was right, I should've
>>>>>waited and I may've found
>>>>>a better deal. Restoring any boat is NOT that much fun but there are
>>>>>rewards of doing it yourself, but sailing is the eventual goal and
>>>>>ive sacrificed many sailing days to get where I am now.
>>>>>
>>>>>I owe so much to all the people on this list ALL of you helping me
>>>>>out with questions for this novice sailor who has few skills in terms
>>>>>of carpentry, fibreglassing
>>>>>and the like. Next Thurs I hope to launch Miracles for the rest of
>>>>>the year, keeping her in the calm, semi-polluted waters of Mill Basin
>>>>>all winter long.
>>>>>
>>>>>wish me luck , I'll need it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Stan, maybe its time to bring in new blood and find a way to accept
>>>>>some sort of retirement from all this grind?
>>>>>
>>>>>all the best
>>>>>and thanks for all your help
>>>>>
>>>>>Lou Rosenberg
>>>>>s/v Miracles
>>>>>On Jul 29, 2009, at 9:43 AM, stan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess this is a dear John letter
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John Shulick,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That does not sound like the Stan I know. I know I do not ignore
>>>>>> the good
>>>>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and I
>>>>>> do know I
>>>>>> do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get
>>>>>> through as
>>>>>> was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are,
>>>>>> please do
>>>>>> not feel slighted because
>>>>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands on the
>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my
>>>>>> time) and
>>>>>> I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating wanting
>>>>>> to put a
>>>>>> lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not built
>>>>>> by us) I
>>>>>> try very had to discourage them from pouring money into it with the
>>>>>> advice
>>>>>> to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model since
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> differences are so drastic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you
>>>>>> got was not
>>>>>> satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell
>>>>>> whole boat
>>>>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is returnable. Did you
>>>>>> send back
>>>>>> any faulty parts - if not, please do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ss
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has many
>>>>>>> complex
>>>>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not shure
>>>>>>> whether
>>>>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and what
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> price
>>>>>>> point would be for a "sport model". GB would have to make that
>>>>>>> determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any posts 
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> place
>>>>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and not
>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>> him.
>>>>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and inquired
>>>>>>> about some
>>>>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a
>>>>>>> tiller for
>>>>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder (but
>>>>>>> usable)
>>>>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for
>>>>>>> small parts
>>>>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources for
>>>>>>> my mast
>>>>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this week
>>>>>>> as part
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an
>>>>>>> equivilent) ,
>>>>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales to me and
>>>>>>> by the
>>>>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose $2,000
>>>>>>> more. I
>>>>>>> still am in the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a
>>>>>>> complete set of
>>>>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for parts
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make
>>>>>>> them as
>>>>>>> needed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John S
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John;
>>>>>>> You're referring to the old US car manufacturers technique known
>>>>>>> as "the
>>>>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but add
>>>>>>> on an
>>>>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our butts
>>>>>>> when they
>>>>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was color.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that much 
>>>>>>> less
>>>>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm not
>>>>>>> building
>>>>>>> or selling boats, or cars.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories without
>>>>>>> losing
>>>>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BenCittadino
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-
>>>>>>> tp24660048p24704459.html
>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>>> go to
>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>Lou Rosenberg
>>>>>Videographer
>>>>>
>>>>>Steinhardt School of Culture, Education and
>>>>>Human Development at NYU
>>>>>
>>>>>239 Greene Street, Room 315
>>>>>lsr3 at nyu.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>(212) 998-5122
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>>http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>------------------------------ 
>>>>
>>>>Message: 7
>>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:05:27 -0400
>>>>From: "Lowe, Rob" <rlowe at vt.edu>
>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all fairness
>>>>To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>Message-ID:
>>>> <7A5B57319AFF9D4A8060949F2E724D5E02B8B38D at mirkwood.cc.w2k.vt.edu>
>>>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>>
>>>>Lou,
>>>>Good luck to you! It's been fun following along with your trials and
>>>>progress over the years. I could have done what you have done, I'm glad
>>>>my '76 was sailable from day one.
>>>>
>>>>Now where is Mill Basin and Rockaway Inlet exactly? I'm hunting on
>>>>yahoo maps and you're in the New York area?? - Rob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message----- 
>>>>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Lou Rosenberg
>>>>Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 10:12 AM
>>>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all fairness
>>>>
>>>>Rhodes owners, wanna be owners, and lurkers like me,
>>>>
>>>>I bought my R22 from a discouraged owner who had not taken care of
>>>>the boat and was basically dumping it in the back of
>>>>a Pt Jefferson yard back in '04. I had been on the list for about a
>>>>year before this and Stan advised me NOT to buy that boat.
>>>>I went against his advice and through the years , Stan and Elton have
>>>>helped me greatly. I ended up only buying about $1500, worth of rigging
>>>>and supplies on a visit to Edenton NC in 2005, but subsequently Elton
>>>>brought up a much needed used bow pulpit and new traveler assembly
>>>>to my yard a few yrs later.
>>>>
>>>>In all fairness I have not bought that much from GB over the years
>>>>but trust their judgement and of course Stan was right, I should've
>>>>waited and I may've found
>>>>a better deal. Restoring any boat is NOT that much fun but there are
>>>>rewards of doing it yourself, but sailing is the eventual goal and
>>>>ive sacrificed many sailing days to get where I am now.
>>>>
>>>>I owe so much to all the people on this list ALL of you helping me
>>>>out with questions for this novice sailor who has few skills in terms
>>>>of carpentry, fibreglassing
>>>>and the like. Next Thurs I hope to launch Miracles for the rest of
>>>>the year, keeping her in the calm, semi-polluted waters of Mill Basin
>>>>all winter long.
>>>>
>>>>wish me luck , I'll need it.
>>>>
>>>>Stan, maybe its time to bring in new blood and find a way to accept
>>>>some sort of retirement from all this grind?
>>>>
>>>>all the best
>>>>and thanks for all your help
>>>>
>>>>Lou Rosenberg
>>>>s/v Miracles
>>>>On Jul 29, 2009, at 9:43 AM, stan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I guess this is a dear John letter
>>>>>
>>>>> John Shulick,
>>>>>
>>>>> That does not sound like the Stan I know. I know I do not ignore
>>>>> the good
>>>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and I
>>>>> do know I
>>>>> do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get
>>>>> through as
>>>>> was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.
>>>>>
>>>>> While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are,
>>>>> please do
>>>>> not feel slighted because
>>>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands on the
>>>>> list.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my
>>>>> time) and
>>>>> I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating wanting
>>>>> to put a
>>>>> lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not built
>>>>> by us) I
>>>>> try very had to discourage them from pouring money into it with the
>>>>> advice
>>>>> to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model since
>>>>> the
>>>>> differences are so drastic.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you
>>>>> got was not
>>>>> satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell
>>>>> whole boat
>>>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is returnable. Did you
>>>>> send back
>>>>> any faulty parts - if not, please do.
>>>>>
>>>>> ss
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has many
>>>>>> complex
>>>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not shure
>>>>>> whether
>>>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and what
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> price
>>>>>> point would be for a "sport model". GB would have to make that
>>>>>> determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any posts I
>>>>>> place
>>>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and not
>>>>>> through
>>>>>> him.
>>>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and inquired
>>>>>> about some
>>>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a
>>>>>> tiller for
>>>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder (but
>>>>>> usable)
>>>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for
>>>>>> small parts
>>>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources for
>>>>>> my mast
>>>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this week
>>>>>> as part
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an
>>>>>> equivilent) ,
>>>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales to me and
>>>>>> by the
>>>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose $2,000
>>>>>> more. I
>>>>>> still am in the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a
>>>>>> complete set of
>>>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for parts
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make
>>>>>> them as
>>>>>> needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John S
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John;
>>>>>> You're referring to the old US car manufacturers technique known
>>>>>> as "the
>>>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but add
>>>>>> on an
>>>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our butts
>>>>>> when they
>>>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was color.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that much less
>>>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm not
>>>>>> building
>>>>>> or selling boats, or cars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories without
>>>>>> losing
>>>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BenCittadino
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-
>>>>>> tp24660048p24704459.html
>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>> go to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>Lou Rosenberg
>>>>Videographer
>>>>
>>>>Steinhardt School of Culture, Education and
>>>>Human Development at NYU
>>>>
>>>>239 Greene Street, Room 315
>>>>lsr3 at nyu.edu
>>>>
>>>>(212) 998-5122
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>------------------------------ 
>>>>
>>>>Message: 8
>>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:30:55 -0400 (EDT)
>>>>From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
>>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Yellowstone Lake, Jackson Lake Sailing
>>>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>Message-ID:
>>>> <10147864.1248881456189.JavaMail.root at elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>>>>
>>>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>>
>>>>Caesar,
>>>>
>>>>How goes the sailing? I have been told of the excellent sailing in the
>>>>Wyoming area by a member of the Montgomery fleet, possibly not far from
>>>>you at all. Apparently Yellowstone Lake is excellent, with the only
>>>>exception being a fixed bridge between the lake and marina. The same
>>>>skipper reported that Jackson Lake has no obstructions to contend with,
>>>>and is much more favorable anyway, apparently even warm enough to swim 
>>>>in.
>>>>My Swedish cousins laugh at our caution about cold water and insist they
>>>>usually break the Baltic ice to take a refreshing dip.
>>>>
>>>>I am told the marinas on the south shore are impressive, and the only
>>>>irritant is mosquitos in the shallow water areas of the lake.
>>>>
>>>>Have you tried sailing here? I camped there years ago, and it is awesome
>>>>scenery.
>>>>
>>>>Best to you,
>>>>
>>>>Art
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>------------------------------ 
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Rhodes22-list mailing list
>>>>Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>End of Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 1931, Issue 1
>>>>**********************************************
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>
>>
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> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to 
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
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