[Rhodes22-list] Re design of Rhodes Interior and elimination of compressi...

Tue Jun 2 15:51:41 EDT 2009

John:
I have a Loos gauge that I use to balance the rig as well.  I think you have
your rig too tight based on the numbers you quoted.  In fact, I don't pay
much attention to the numbers I get on a particular shroud except as a
comparison to their opposite counterpart.

Stan has advised that the factory recommendation is "hand tight" on the
shrouds.  I would have to look at the Loos instruction pamplet again but I
believe that the recommendation from Loos is that the lee shrouds should be
at "zero" tension when the boat is healed over at its max angle.  Let's call
"zero" as being slack and anything less then that being "loose".  After
raising the mast, I go out and sail the rig a few times watching the
shrouds.  At max heal angle with all sails hoisted, I just begin to see a
little looseness, just slightly beyond slack so that I can see it.  I can't
get there with merely hand tight usually.  Don't tell Stan, but I hold the
top of the turnbuckle with a small wrench and give it about 1/2 or a full
turn tighter with my hand to get it where I want it.  Stan's hands maybe
stronger then mine is how I rationalize it.

Anyway, my rig is still basically "hand tight" but meets the Loos philosophy
of not going too loose and mast pumping.  My numbers are a lot less then
yours.  Who knows what kind of a rig Loos based their numbers on?
 Personally,  I would not use their recommendations unless I had a reason
and a keel-stepped mast and then I would loosen it every time I berthed the
boat.  I have already observed first hand what an over-tightened rig can do
to a cabin-stepped mast.  Maybe your top is OK now, but what about the
chain-plates that you can't see?   I think Loos is good for racers and
anyone else demanding consistent, peak performance and willing to pay for
the consequences.  I'm not sure that our boat qualifies as a "racer" though
I do pretty well against all the comparable ones on my lake even at hand
tight.

I don't remember my Loos numbers but I think I am less then half of what you
are at, maybe 180 at most.  I'll check them if you are interested in
knowing.

David

Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 10:30:02 EDT
From: R22RumRunner at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Re design of Rhodes Interior and
       elimination of  compressi...
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Message-ID: <c4f.468f947f.3756916a at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Having no experience with the loos gauge puts me at a disadvantage. I can
tell you that my method of testing is done by touch. My stays are taught,
but  not tight. I test each of them until I think they are all about the
same,
being  careful not to over tighten. I start with each turn buckle at the
same point and  then I and another person count rotations making sure they
are
the same. I  repeat this with each one. My leeward stays are always loose
when the sails are  filled. That's the way they are supposed to be.
Roger was a wonderful resource on this list, but please keep in mind that
he is an engineer. My experience with engineers, including Roger, is that
they  have an extreme tendency to over think things and make them much more
difficult  than they need be.
I would be concerned about the crack that has widened. The crack tells me
that at one time the stays were to tight otherwise the crack never would
have  appeared. Keep in mind the geometry of the deck and hull and how they
all
work  together.
Good luck and I'm envious that you are out sailing and I'm waiting for
paint to dry.

Rummy

In a message dated 6/2/2009 9:57:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jsbudda at verizon.net writes:

Rummy,

Glad to see you have a lake with water and a  shinny new boat to play with
(nice color) hope the weather cooperates.
The loos gauge applies a transverse tension on the wire being tested.  The
wire is pulled with a set amount of force and the amount of deflection  is
measured on a scale which translates to lbs of force. I take the  accuracy
of
those numbers with a teaspoon of salt but to obtain the same  number on all
four baby stays and the 2 side stays indicate balanced  tension throughout
the rigging system. I order to get a consistent reading  you must try to
measure each wire at the same point on its length as close  to the center
point as can be safely reached by standing on the  deck.

John Shulick

R22RumRunner wrote:
>
>  John,
> Your numbers from the loos gauge mean absolutely nothing to me,  but your

> comment about a 1000 pounds of pressure on the mast  support troubles me.
> Anyone  else have any thoughts or  experience with the loos gauge?
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 6/1/2009 11:01:33 P.M. Eastern  Daylight Time,
> jsbudda at verizon.net writes:
>
>
> Hi  all,
>
> The boat has been in the water for  three weeks now and the rigging  has
> bin
> tightened  gradually to what I consider normal. In that time the  boat has
>  been hit by several cold fronts sweeping through the area with  winds  of
> 30
> mph with gusts to 50. I've been out sailing (10 to 15  with  gusts)
trying
> out
> my new mainsail from sailcare.  and can report no problems  aside from
> getting
> used to  some squeaks and groans as the 34 year old cabin  adjusts to the
>  new
> load. The interior picture shows the arch under a mast  load  of approx
> 1000
> lbs.
> 120 on the baby stays  and 240 on  the side stays as measured on the loos
> gage.
>
> John  Shulick
>  http://www.nabble.com/file/p23825735/DSCF0298.jpeg
>
>
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