[Rhodes22-list] More IMF Furling Advice

[David Culp]

Yeah Stephen, I agree with you.  I do keep some tension on the back-stays in
the slip but not real tight and also the main sheet and topping lift keep
some tension on the rig as well.  Another problem if the rig is too loose is
that jibes are particularly hard on it.  The answer is of course.... to
never jibe and just pour another drink.   Now if I could just convince all
these other boats who get in my way of the same thing, I would be fine.

We've had this discussion before and it is pretty much consensus among the
owners I think, that rig tuning on the Rhodes ain't exactly rocket science.
 It's just not necessary to get elaborate, you get good results by just
using common sense.

Basic rig tuning for the newbies in one paragraph,  Uppers hold the mast up
straight just hand tightened.  Back stays work against the fore-stay and are
adjustable. Then I  go out, find some wind and heel the boat over to see if
anything starts swinging in the breeze at max heel angle.  I consider max
heel being just about rail at the water.  Particularly, the leeward outer
ought to be at zero tension at that point which makes it look loose but does
not have a bunch of slack in it where it is swinging around.  I was out
playing in some strong breeze yesterday and had to put one more turn on the
outer shrouds because they would noticeably go slack and swing when the rail
was down.  Loos gauge reading which means nothing on the Rhodes except for
comparison( so don't spend the money)-is now at 140 on both outers and that
is still really low compared to other boats.  The pins are back in-probably
to stay and so ends rig tuning for another season on the Rhodes.

dc





Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:41:41 -0400
From: Stephen Staum <staum at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More IMF Furling Advice
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
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David & All,

The only warning I would give, particularly to the newbies, is a
caution about leaving the shrouds loose. When I got my '87 I left the
shrouds loose on the mooring thinking I was giving them a break &
proceeded to loose 2 forestays in 2 years - one lost under sail! The
strength of the shrouds & stays is in tension & they get hammered when
loose. I now keep them all under constant tension (hand tight) w no
problems for 5 years.

Stephen Staum
87 R22, Carol Lee

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 17, 2010, at 3:52 PM, David Culp <dculp at hsbtx.com> wrote:

> Hi Mary Lou:
>
> The simple answer to your question is:  hand tight.
>
> The complicated discussion for our newest owners and listees:
>
> I always let the tension off the back stays when the boat is in the
> slip
> remembering that we have a cabin stepped mast.  A former owner used
> the
> analogy of a "bow and arrow" which I think is valid, so I don't
> leave the
> "arrow" under tension when the boat is just sitting.  I believe the
> record
> shows that if someone over tightens the stays, especially the back
> stays and
> the aft uppers, that they are putting a lot of leverage and pressure
> on the
> back of the cabin top; and because the internal bulkhead doesn't
> reach all
> the way back under the mast step, they in essence, are breaking the
> cabin
> top backwards over the bulkhead.  This is no longer an issue for me,
> because
> I installed a center-post just aft of the bulkhead right under the
> mast
> step.  I am now transferring some of the load to the bottom hull
> structure.
> I suspect that a former owner of my boat (there were several) got a
> little
> carried away on stay tension; didn't follow Stan's advice about hand-
> tight
> only and the result was that I had to do some small repairs and
> installed
> the post to make sure that it was no longer an issue.
>
> I end up always tightening the back stays before I go sail, because
> if the
> forestay is just a little too slack, then the old GBI furler just
> doesn't
> work as well.  You have a Schaefer furler if memory serves and so
> perhaps
> you can adjust your jib luff tension with a separate halyard?
> Conversely,
> if I find I need more draft in the jib on slacker days, I just
> loosen the
> backstay adjuster to reduce tension on the jib luff.  Just another
> nice
> adjusting feature Stan designed in.
>
> When I raise the mast, here is what I do to prevent problems:   I
> tighten
> all the lowers hand-tight only making sure that I get the mast up as
> straight as possible.   Then I loosen the forward uppers a little
> and put
> tension on the back stay to make sure the slack is out of the
> forestay.
> This puts a slight rearward rake in the still straight mast which I
> find on
> my boat helps balance the helm under sail. Then once satisfied with
> that, I
> tighten the forwards again and then the outer shrouds (always hand
> tight
> only) and then use the dastardly Loos gauge to make sure that the
> tension is
> the same on both outer shrouds.  The Loos measurement on the outer,
> lower
> shrouds is the only one I bother to check and it was a mere 120 lbs.
> as of
> yesterday.  That is hand tight, virtually nothing and barely on the
> scale.
>
> The last step of course is to actually sail the boat in a moderate
> wind on
> both tacks and watch to see what happens.  If I find a leeward
> shroud is
> swinging in the wind, then I will tighten it up just a bit, so that
> it has
> zero tension and not quite swinging in the breeze when the windwards
> are at
> full tension.  I must be getting better at it, because I test sailed
> the
> boat yesterday in the above mentioned conditions and I was so
> pleased with
> the setup that I have already put the cotter pins in the turn-
> buckles and
> hopefully they won't have to be touched again until the next time I
> pull the
> boat.
>
> In summary, I have concluded that the upper shrouds only purpose in
> life is
> to keep the mast from falling down.  Therefore, hand-tightening is
> always
> sufficient.  The back stays are adjustable and their purpose is to
> just take
> the slack out of the forestay when sailing and no more.   The outer
> shrouds
> are on levers (spreaders) and they pickup a lot of the sail load when
> sailing and help keep the top of the mast from bending off.  So when
> the
> boat is at rest, they don't have to be more then hand-tight either.
> My
> observation with my setup is that when I am sailing in moderate wind
> and I
> have the back stay tightened up to keep the jib luff tight-that you
> do get a
> little rearward bend off of the mast.  So I was passing on to
> Charlie and
> others that our masts actually bend off more then we think and it
> can impede
> the proper operation of the IMF-which requires a straight mast to
> operate
> properly.
>
> Yesterday, because of the euphoria of having pretty much hit it on
> the money
> the first time and also impending heat exhaustion (why do I always
> pick the
> hottest day of the year to launch?), I forgot to loosen the back
> stays and
> the IMF was not cooperating properly when I tried rolling it in.
> Releasing
> the back stays solved the problem.
>
> Sincerely and you guys can have your hot weather back up there!
>
> David
>
>
>
> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 08:01:03 -0400
> From: Mary Lou Troy <mtroy at atlanticbb.net>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More IMF Furling Advice
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Message-ID: <D3.50.09230.BAA404C4 at BL-206>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> David,
> We tighten our backstay adjuster once a year when we launch the boat.
> We've never loosened the backstay for furling the main. How tight are
> your forward lower stays?
>
> Mary Lou
> 1991 R22 Fretless
> Rock Hall, MD
>
>
> At 12:36 AM 7/16/2010, you wrote:
>> This is for Charlie in Dallas... You can learn from my mistake today.
>>
>> You said you are having trouble furling the IMF.  The other advice
>> everyone
>> gave is  good and something else that you might try is to remember
>> to take
>> the tension off the back stays before you roll the IMF in.  I guess
>> I knew
>> that , but forgot to do it today the first time and it makes a
>> world of
>> difference.  First time - problems.  Take tension off back stays - no
>> problems.  That mast bends more then we give it credit for.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> David