[Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
KUHN, LELAND
LKUHN at cnmc.org
Thu Nov 4 11:21:41 EDT 2010
Dave,
Personally I think the lifelines make the boat look better but if I
bought a boat for looks it wouldn't be a Rhodes; no offense to any
taste-impaired people on this list.
If you use the stays for handholds I don't think lifelines would be much
of a safety improvement. I never go forward under sail. The only times
I do go forward is tying off the boat in my slip or anchoring from the
bow. If I ever need to go forward in rough water I'd do it on my butt
or belly when moving from the forward shroud to the bow pulpit.
Stan's comments on the GBI website:
"You do not see many Rhodes with life lines. This is an example of the
buyers taking our advice, even though a life line package is available.
Life lines can be had along the cabin side decks, sloping down to the
bow to form a slot for the genoa. They can be had running from bow
pulpit to the aft end of the cabin, or all the way back to the stern
rail. They do add some glitter to the boat. But are they really
needed? Could you better use the dollar credit elsewhere? With the
175% furling genoa there is no need to go out on the foredeck to change
or lower sails. When duty does call for "all hands on deck", the Rhodes
"vertical life line" shrouds make this a very secure walk. Besides,
even with the Rhodes unusually wide side decks, life line stanchions are
an annoying encroachment. The move, of course, is yours. Don't do it
for the children. With their sure footed feet and the Rhodes' great
handrails, kids never fall overboard. It is the adults we lose !"
Stan is an honest businessman but he's still a businessman. He can make
money selling lifelines yet he still doesn't highly recommend them.
Stan only made one recommendation that I didn't do, and of course he was
right and I was wrong.
Good luck!
Lee
1986 Rhodes22 AT EASE
Kent Island, MD
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
R22RumRunner at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 4:12 AM
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
Dave,
Unless you have small children, I see no need for the railings. Just my
2
cents worth. I like to keep things both simple and clean.
Rummy
In a message dated 11/4/2010 1:01:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rhodes22dave at gmail.com writes:
Rummy, I think the railings are okay. They make great hangers for the
fenders at the dock. [?]
I could do without them, but my wife likes them. They are handy to
lean
against a little, for balance, when cleaning or doing various chores
about
the boat.
When under sail, actually they don't get in the way or interfere with
the
175. They virtually touch the outer stays, and the sail could not go
in
further anyway.
The one inconvenience is that the genoa sheet can, in the process of
tacking, get wedged in between the stay and the rail, requiring me to
go
forward and free it, or to jiggle the line and try to fool with it
remotely.
However, I would be interested in the views of others that have rails.
I
was planning to order them on my new R22, but I could be persuaded
either
way, if the Commandant--my wife--could be persuaded (an unlikely
event).
Dave
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 7:17 AM, <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
> Dave,
> The fact that you have the side railings makes your boat a completely
> different animal. I have never sailed on one with the railings, but I
can
> imagine the problems you will encounter with them. You might ask for
advice
> from
> someone who has the railings. Personally, I don't like them on a 22
foot
> sailboat. In fact, I don't even like them on a larger boat, but I
> understand
> why they might be needed. Your inability to make the 175 work for
you is
> directly related to the railings. You might want to consider
replacing
> your
> furling drum with one that allows a complete sail change on the
fly,
> unlike
> the GB furler.
>
> Rummy.......still waiting for the shuttle to go up.
>
>
> In a message dated 11/3/2010 12:55:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> rhodes22dave at gmail.com writes:
>
> Lee, thanks for your comments. I may give you a call, as I will
have
to
> decide which sail to put on my R22 this time, as compared to the 175
I
> have
> been using. Last weekend the wind was mild but steady--about 5 mph.
> Using
> the full 175 was very pleasant. But in gusty or changeable winds
(our
> most
> common lake condition), and where sailing close hauled is important,
the
> 175
> is simply too much sail area too far forward, and even when largely
> furled,
> the boat doesn't point well--worse than all the other boats that I
see.
> Unless the genoa is furled way in, I don't see how I could lead the
sheets
> through the inner guides on the deck, inside the shrouds. I was
surprised
> that you mentioned that the smaller genoa would be closer to the
deck.
I
> haven't seen one, but I assumed that the 130/140/150 sizes would
simply
be
> made in their smaller sizes by shortening or raising the foot of the
sail.
>
> I also use my full 175 less than 20% of the time, and when I am on a
reach
> in mild weather conditions, it is a very nice sail. So if you can
keep
a
> decent sail shape and still furl it way in for other conditions and
> re-route
> the sheets to one of the inner paths, then it's probably a good
> multi-purpose compromise for a sail. 80% of the time, I have the
genoa
> furled in to greater or lesser degrees, and I am telling myself that
next
> time I am going to have a smaller sail.
>
> I also have the steel side rails, which are very convenient, but the
> sheets
> do often catch between the rails and the stays on tacking, and I
have to
> go
> forward and free them up. This is avoided by furling in
substantially
> just
> before tacking, and then letting the sail back out, but a smaller
sail
> would
> be just that much more convenient.
>
> Dave
>
> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 2:33 PM, KUHN, LELAND <LKUHN at cnmc.org> wrote:
>
> > Dave,
> >
> > "I have never
> > liked the 175 genoa very much because I can't sail nearly as close
to
> > the
> > wind as any of hundreds of other sailboats on our lake."
> >
> > I don't think a smaller Genoa will help you sail closer to the
wind as
> > much as re-routing your sheets. You still won't be able to pull
your
> > jib or smaller Genoa closer to the center of your boat if your
sheets
> > are run outside of the outer shroud.
> >
> > As for sail shape, you can pull a 175% Genoa just as tight as a
smaller
> > Genoa. A smaller Genoa won't have as much rolled-up bulk around
the
> > furler and the sail will be closer to the deck, which will
probably
> > improve performance slightly if you're on a close reach.
> >
> > The primary reason I would opt for a smaller Genoa is because I
use
the
> > full 175% sail less than 20% of the time. When I do use the full
175% I
> > swear I'll never go with anything smaller.
> >
> > Feel free to give me a call if you'd like to discuss upwind
performance.
> > 202.476.5369
> >
> > Good luck!
> >
> > Lee
> > 1986 Rhodes22 AT EASE
> > Kent Island, MD
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
Rhodes22Dave
> > Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 11:51 PM
> > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
> >
> >
> > Interesting. I will try this. I also thought that re-routing the
genoa
> > sheets inside the shrouds would just get the sail caught. I have
never
> > liked the 175 genoa very much because I can't sail nearly as close
to
> > the
> > wind as any of hundreds of other sailboats on our lake. I can do
a
> > little
> > better by furling in the genoa to a much smaller exposed sail
area--but
> > at a
> > cost of sail shape with all the furling. I may get a second R22
and
am
> > thinking of getting a smaller genoa--or adding the self-tending
jib.
> > But
> > what you suggest might be a solution, at least for long tacks.
> > Dave
> >
> > Ben Cittadino wrote:
> > >
> > > I had two days in a row on Sandy Hook Bay in NJ this weekend,
and I
> > want
> > > to report that I had a pleasing experience by "finally"
re-routing
the
> > > Jib (175 Genny) sheets inside the outer shrouds to try for
better
> > upwind
> > > sailing. I have to say that I didn't expect much difference, but
I
was
> > > delighted to get inside 45 degrees at last. I obviously didn't
let
> the
> > > Genny out to the full 175, but at 100 we flew along and I felt
like
I
> > > could make real headway upwind. I had delayed trying the new
route
for
> > > the sheets because I thought the sail would get all hung up in
the
> > > shrouds, but it's become no big deal. Try it, you'll like it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > BenCittadino
> > >
> > > S/V Susan Kay ('93 recycled '08)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> > http://old.nabble.com/Sailing-Upwind-tp29517214p30044777.html
> > Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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