[Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind

KUHN, LELAND LKUHN at cnmc.org
Thu Nov 4 11:21:41 EDT 2010


Dave,

Personally I think the lifelines make the boat look better but if I
bought a boat for looks it wouldn't be a Rhodes; no offense to any
taste-impaired people on this list. 

If you use the stays for handholds I don't think lifelines would be much
of a safety improvement.  I never go forward under sail.  The only times
I do go forward is tying off the boat in my slip or anchoring from the
bow.  If I ever need to go forward in rough water I'd do it on my butt
or belly when moving from the forward shroud to the bow pulpit.

Stan's comments on the GBI website:

"You do not see many Rhodes with life lines.  This is an example of the
buyers taking our advice, even though a life line package is available.
Life lines can be had along the cabin side decks, sloping down to the
bow to form a slot for the genoa.  They can be had running from bow
pulpit to the aft end of the cabin, or all the way back to the stern
rail.  They do add some glitter to the boat.  But are they really
needed?  Could you better use the dollar credit elsewhere?  With the
175% furling genoa there is no need to go out on the foredeck to change
or lower sails.  When duty does call for "all hands on deck", the Rhodes
"vertical life line" shrouds make this a very secure walk.  Besides,
even with the Rhodes unusually wide side decks, life line stanchions are
an annoying encroachment.  The move, of course, is yours.  Don't do it
for the children.  With their sure footed feet and the Rhodes' great
handrails, kids never fall overboard.  It is the adults we lose !"

Stan is an honest businessman but he's still a businessman.  He can make
money selling lifelines yet he still doesn't highly recommend them.

Stan only made one recommendation that I didn't do, and of course he was
right and I was wrong.

Good luck!

Lee
1986 Rhodes22  AT EASE
Kent Island, MD

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
R22RumRunner at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 4:12 AM
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind

Dave,
Unless you have small children, I see no need for the railings. Just my
2  
cents worth. I like to keep things both simple and clean.
 
Rummy
 
 
In a message dated 11/4/2010 1:01:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
rhodes22dave at gmail.com writes:

Rummy, I  think the railings are okay.  They make great hangers for the
fenders  at the dock.  [?]
I could do without them, but my wife likes  them.  They are handy to
lean
against a little, for balance, when  cleaning or doing various chores
about
the boat.
When under sail,  actually they don't get in the way or interfere with
the
175.  They  virtually touch the outer stays, and the sail could not go
in
further  anyway.
The one inconvenience is that the genoa sheet can, in the process  of
tacking, get wedged in between the stay and the rail, requiring me to
go
forward and free it, or to jiggle the line and try to fool with it  
remotely.
However, I would be interested in the views of others that have  rails.
I
was planning to order them on my new R22, but I could be  persuaded
either
way, if the Commandant--my wife--could be persuaded (an  unlikely
event).
Dave

On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 7:17 AM,  <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:

> Dave,
> The fact that  you have the side railings makes your boat a completely
> different  animal. I have never sailed on one with the railings, but I
can
>  imagine the problems you will encounter with them. You might ask for

advice
> from
> someone who has the railings. Personally, I don't  like them on a 22
foot
> sailboat. In fact, I don't even like them on a  larger boat, but I
> understand
> why  they might be needed.  Your inability to make the 175 work for
you is
> directly  related  to the railings. You might want to consider
replacing
> your
>  furling drum  with one that allows a complete sail change on the
fly,
> unlike
> the GB  furler.
>
>  Rummy.......still waiting for the shuttle to go up.
>
>
> In  a message dated 11/3/2010 12:55:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>  rhodes22dave at gmail.com writes:
>
> Lee,  thanks for your  comments.  I may give you a call, as I will
have  
to
> decide  which sail to put on my R22 this time, as compared to the 175
I
>   have
> been using.  Last weekend the wind was mild but  steady--about 5  mph.
>  Using
> the full 175 was very  pleasant.  But in gusty or  changeable winds
(our
>  most
> common lake condition), and where sailing close  hauled is  important,
the
> 175
> is simply too much sail area too far  forward,  and even when largely
> furled,
> the boat doesn't  point well--worse than all  the other boats that I
see.
> Unless  the genoa is furled way in, I don't see  how I could lead the

sheets
> through the inner guides on the deck, inside  the  shrouds.  I was 
surprised
> that you mentioned that the  smaller  genoa would be closer to the
deck.  
I
> haven't seen  one, but I assumed  that the 130/140/150 sizes would
simply 
be
>  made in their smaller sizes by  shortening or raising the foot of the

sail.
>
> I also use my full 175 less  than 20% of the time,  and when I am on a

reach
> in mild weather conditions,  it is a  very nice sail.  So if you can
keep 
a
> decent sail shape and   still furl it way in for other conditions and
> re-route
> the  sheets to one of  the inner paths, then it's probably a good
>  multi-purpose compromise for a  sail.  80% of the time, I have the
genoa
> furled in to greater or  lesser degrees, and I am telling  myself that

next
> time I am going to have a  smaller  sail.
>
> I also have the steel side rails, which are very   convenient, but the
> sheets
> do often catch between the rails  and the stays  on tacking, and I
have to
> go
> forward and  free them up.  This is  avoided by furling in
substantially
>  just
> before tacking, and then letting  the sail back out, but a  smaller
sail
> would
> be just that much more   convenient.
>
> Dave
>
> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 2:33  PM, KUHN, LELAND  <LKUHN at cnmc.org> wrote:
>
> >  Dave,
> >
> > "I have  never
> > liked the 175  genoa very much because I can't sail nearly as  close
to
> >  the
> > wind as any of hundreds of other sailboats on our   lake."
> >
> > I don't think a smaller Genoa will help you  sail closer  to the
wind as
> > much as re-routing your  sheets.  You still won't  be able to pull
your
> > jib or  smaller Genoa closer to the center of your  boat if your
sheets
>  > are run outside of the outer  shroud.
> >
> > As  for sail shape, you can pull a 175% Genoa just as  tight as a  
smaller
> > Genoa.  A smaller Genoa won't have as much   rolled-up bulk around
the
> > furler and the sail will be closer to  the  deck, which will
probably
> > improve performance slightly  if you're on a  close reach.
> >
> > The primary reason  I would opt for a smaller  Genoa is because I
use 
the
> > full  175% sail less than 20% of the  time.  When I do use the full 
175%  I
> > swear I'll never go with  anything smaller.
>  >
> > Feel free to give me a call if you'd like to  discuss  upwind 
performance.
> > 202.476.5369
> >
> >  Good  luck!
> >
> > Lee
> > 1986  Rhodes22  AT EASE
> > Kent  Island, MD
> >
>  >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >   From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >   [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
Rhodes22Dave
>  >  Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 11:51 PM
> > To:   rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]  Sailing  Upwind
> >
> >
> > Interesting. I  will try this.  I also  thought that re-routing the 
genoa
>  > sheets inside the shrouds would just  get the sail caught.  I  have

never
> > liked the 175 genoa very much  because I can't  sail nearly as close
to
> > the
> > wind as any of   hundreds of other sailboats on our lake.  I can do
a
> >   little
> > better by furling in the genoa to a much smaller exposed  sail  
area--but
> > at a
> > cost of sail shape with  all the furling.   I may get a second R22
and 
am
> >  thinking of getting a smaller genoa--or  adding the self-tending
jib.
> > But
> > what you suggest might be a  solution,  at least for long tacks.
> > Dave
> >
> > Ben  Cittadino  wrote:
> > >
> > > I had two days in a  row on Sandy Hook Bay in  NJ this weekend,
and I
> >  want
> > > to report that I had a  pleasing experience by  "finally"
re-routing 
the
> > > Jib (175 Genny)  sheets inside  the outer shrouds to try for
better
> > upwind
> >  >  sailing. I have to say that I didn't expect much difference, but
I  
was
> >  > delighted to get inside 45 degrees at last. I  obviously didn't
let
>  the
> > > Genny out to the full  175, but at 100 we flew along and I  felt
like 
I
> > > could  make real headway upwind. I had delayed trying  the new
route 
for
>  > > the sheets because I thought the sail would get  all hung up in
the
> > > shrouds, but it's become no big deal. Try it,   you'll like it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
>  > >  BenCittadino
> > >
> > > S/V Susan Kay  ('93 recycled  '08)
> > >
> > >
> >  >
> > >
> > >
> >  >
> >  >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >  >
> >  >
> > >  __________________________________________________
> >   >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
>  > View this message in  context:
> >   http://old.nabble.com/Sailing-Upwind-tp29517214p30044777.html
> >  Sent  from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>  >
> >   __________________________________________________
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> >
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