[Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
BenCittadino
bencittadino at gmail.com
Thu Nov 4 14:53:15 EDT 2010
Rummy;
I see I made the error of failing to wait until the sun dropped below the
yardarm to post when you might be in a more mellow frame of mind. Actually,
my navy ship was only 171' long and I was on the bridge when we took a 52
degree roll in a storm. I thought we were going over all the way and said
the fastest "Hail Mary" in the history of that prayer. It seemed to take
forever but we came back up to vertical. By the way, my ship was designed by
....(drum roll)....(wait for it).....Philip Rhodes. It was an MSO
(minesweeper, ocean going), built in 1951 (she was 19 years old when I
reported aboard).
Thanks Caesar. I feel slightly less stupid.
BenC
R22RumRunner wrote:
>
> Ben,
> Right. Another piece of wisdom passed down from our federal government. I
> can't remember the last time I saw a 22 foot battle ship or maybe a 22
> foot
> aircraft carrier. Kinda reminds me of my favorite government saying: Hi,
> I'm from the government and I'm here to help you. Get real man. Life
> lines on
> a 22 foot sailboat is just plain stupid. To say nothing about their
> appearance. The R22 is a good looking craft. Don't turn it into a garbage
> scow
> with life lines. If you can't stay put on a 22 foot sailboat you deserve
> to
> get dunked. Life lines won't fix stupid.
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 11/4/2010 2:13:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> bencittadino at gmail.com writes:
>
>
> Rummy & Dave;
>
> I remember being taught in the USN to NEVER sit upon, lean against, or
> even
> touch the life line railings aboard ship. The only time anyone should
> touch
> them is when maintaining or repairing them. The idea is they are only
> there
> as a last resort and if you have to grab them you shouldn't be out there
> to
> begin with.
>
> I would never tell anyone not to have them because if they keep you from
> going overboard only once in twenty years they can be worth the money,
> but
> remember they are not built for routine daily stress and strain, or
> reliance. You can look at them, but don't touch them 'till you really
> need
> them.
>
> BenC
> s/v susan kay ('93 recycled '08) (no railings)
>
> R22RumRunner wrote:
>>
>> Dave,
>> Unless you have small children, I see no need for the railings. Just my
> 2
>> cents worth. I like to keep things both simple and clean.
>>
>> Rummy
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 11/4/2010 1:01:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> rhodes22dave at gmail.com writes:
>>
>> Rummy, I think the railings are okay. They make great hangers for the
>> fenders at the dock. [?]
>> I could do without them, but my wife likes them. They are handy to
>> lean
>> against a little, for balance, when cleaning or doing various chores
>> about
>> the boat.
>> When under sail, actually they don't get in the way or interfere with
> the
>> 175. They virtually touch the outer stays, and the sail could not go
>> in
>> further anyway.
>> The one inconvenience is that the genoa sheet can, in the process of
>> tacking, get wedged in between the stay and the rail, requiring me to
> go
>> forward and free it, or to jiggle the line and try to fool with it
>> remotely.
>> However, I would be interested in the views of others that have rails.
> I
>> was planning to order them on my new R22, but I could be persuaded
> either
>> way, if the Commandant--my wife--could be persuaded (an unlikely
>> event).
>> Dave
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 7:17 AM, <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dave,
>>> The fact that you have the side railings makes your boat a completely
>>> different animal. I have never sailed on one with the railings, but I
>>> can
>>> imagine the problems you will encounter with them. You might ask for
>> advice
>>> from
>>> someone who has the railings. Personally, I don't like them on a 22
> foot
>>> sailboat. In fact, I don't even like them on a larger boat, but I
>>> understand
>>> why they might be needed. Your inability to make the 175 work for you
>>> is
>>> directly related to the railings. You might want to consider
>>> replacing
>>> your
>>> furling drum with one that allows a complete sail change on the fly,
>>> unlike
>>> the GB furler.
>>>
>>> Rummy.......still waiting for the shuttle to go up.
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 11/3/2010 12:55:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>> rhodes22dave at gmail.com writes:
>>>
>>> Lee, thanks for your comments. I may give you a call, as I will have
>
>> to
>>> decide which sail to put on my R22 this time, as compared to the 175 I
>>> have
>>> been using. Last weekend the wind was mild but steady--about 5 mph.
>>> Using
>>> the full 175 was very pleasant. But in gusty or changeable winds
>>> (our
>>> most
>>> common lake condition), and where sailing close hauled is important,
>>> the
>>> 175
>>> is simply too much sail area too far forward, and even when largely
>>> furled,
>>> the boat doesn't point well--worse than all the other boats that I
> see.
>>> Unless the genoa is furled way in, I don't see how I could lead the
>> sheets
>>> through the inner guides on the deck, inside the shrouds. I was
>> surprised
>>> that you mentioned that the smaller genoa would be closer to the
> deck.
>> I
>>> haven't seen one, but I assumed that the 130/140/150 sizes would
> simply
>> be
>>> made in their smaller sizes by shortening or raising the foot of the
>> sail.
>>>
>>> I also use my full 175 less than 20% of the time, and when I am on a
>> reach
>>> in mild weather conditions, it is a very nice sail. So if you can
> keep
>> a
>>> decent sail shape and still furl it way in for other conditions and
>>> re-route
>>> the sheets to one of the inner paths, then it's probably a good
>>> multi-purpose compromise for a sail. 80% of the time, I have the
>>> genoa
>>> furled in to greater or lesser degrees, and I am telling myself that
>> next
>>> time I am going to have a smaller sail.
>>>
>>> I also have the steel side rails, which are very convenient, but the
>>> sheets
>>> do often catch between the rails and the stays on tacking, and I have
>>> to
>>> go
>>> forward and free them up. This is avoided by furling in
> substantially
>>> just
>>> before tacking, and then letting the sail back out, but a smaller
>>> sail
>>> would
>>> be just that much more convenient.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 2:33 PM, KUHN, LELAND <LKUHN at cnmc.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Dave,
>>> >
>>> > "I have never
>>> > liked the 175 genoa very much because I can't sail nearly as close
> to
>>> > the
>>> > wind as any of hundreds of other sailboats on our lake."
>>> >
>>> > I don't think a smaller Genoa will help you sail closer to the wind
>>> as
>>> > much as re-routing your sheets. You still won't be able to pull
> your
>>> > jib or smaller Genoa closer to the center of your boat if your
> sheets
>>> > are run outside of the outer shroud.
>>> >
>>> > As for sail shape, you can pull a 175% Genoa just as tight as a
>> smaller
>>> > Genoa. A smaller Genoa won't have as much rolled-up bulk around
>>> the
>>> > furler and the sail will be closer to the deck, which will
>>> probably
>>> > improve performance slightly if you're on a close reach.
>>> >
>>> > The primary reason I would opt for a smaller Genoa is because I use
>> the
>>> > full 175% sail less than 20% of the time. When I do use the full
>> 175% I
>>> > swear I'll never go with anything smaller.
>>> >
>>> > Feel free to give me a call if you'd like to discuss upwind
>> performance.
>>> > 202.476.5369
>>> >
>>> > Good luck!
>>> >
>>> > Lee
>>> > 1986 Rhodes22 AT EASE
>>> > Kent Island, MD
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
> Rhodes22Dave
>>> > Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 11:51 PM
>>> > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Interesting. I will try this. I also thought that re-routing the
>> genoa
>>> > sheets inside the shrouds would just get the sail caught. I have
>> never
>>> > liked the 175 genoa very much because I can't sail nearly as close
> to
>>> > the
>>> > wind as any of hundreds of other sailboats on our lake. I can do a
>>> > little
>>> > better by furling in the genoa to a much smaller exposed sail
>> area--but
>>> > at a
>>> > cost of sail shape with all the furling. I may get a second R22
> and
>> am
>>> > thinking of getting a smaller genoa--or adding the self-tending
> jib.
>>> > But
>>> > what you suggest might be a solution, at least for long tacks.
>>> > Dave
>>> >
>>> > Ben Cittadino wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > I had two days in a row on Sandy Hook Bay in NJ this weekend, and
> I
>>> > want
>>> > > to report that I had a pleasing experience by "finally"
> re-routing
>> the
>>> > > Jib (175 Genny) sheets inside the outer shrouds to try for better
>>> > upwind
>>> > > sailing. I have to say that I didn't expect much difference, but
> I
>> was
>>> > > delighted to get inside 45 degrees at last. I obviously didn't
>>> let
>>> the
>>> > > Genny out to the full 175, but at 100 we flew along and I felt
> like
>> I
>>> > > could make real headway upwind. I had delayed trying the new
> route
>> for
>>> > > the sheets because I thought the sail would get all hung up in
> the
>>> > > shrouds, but it's become no big deal. Try it, you'll like it.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > BenCittadino
>>> > >
>>> > > S/V Susan Kay ('93 recycled '08)
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > __________________________________________________
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > View this message in context:
>>> > http://old.nabble.com/Sailing-Upwind-tp29517214p30044777.html
>>> > Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>> >
>>> > __________________________________________________
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>
> --
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> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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